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Serious 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Who are your favorite candidates?

  • Kamala Harris

    Votes: 43 8.0%
  • Elizabeth Warren

    Votes: 99 18.5%
  • Julián Castro

    Votes: 16 3.0%
  • Pete Buttigieg

    Votes: 52 9.7%
  • Kirsten Gillibrand

    Votes: 8 1.5%
  • John Delaney

    Votes: 9 1.7%
  • Tulsi Gabbard

    Votes: 62 11.6%
  • Bernie Sanders

    Votes: 337 63.0%
  • Amy Klobuchar

    Votes: 12 2.2%
  • Joe Biden

    Votes: 43 8.0%
  • Andrew Yang

    Votes: 112 20.9%
  • Cory Booker

    Votes: 7 1.3%
  • Marianne Williamson

    Votes: 19 3.6%
  • Mike Bloomberg

    Votes: 12 2.2%

  • Total voters
    535
Not gonna lie, these sound like exactly the kinda of things Republicans said about Blasey-Ford after she accused Kavanaugh.

‘Surely this would’ve come up earlier, convenient timing’, ‘lack of detail, smells like BS’, etc.

Personally I think one should be consistent between the two cases. Either rape allegations made by credible women willing to stand before a camera and accuse their attacker are or are not subject to standard due process when it comes to politics. The two cases are very similar in that both happened a long time ago and any hope of substantive proof that might be brought forth to substantiate the accusation In a court of law has long since passed. Instead both parties seem to believe the people on their side should be given due process as if it were a criminal court of law and the other side should be condemned and thrown in prison on the spot.
Sam you're privileged enough to have both parties act as viable conduits for your opinions. But this is false equivalency, and a trademark Republican tactic. It's absolutely absurd that 'centrists' get to play 'both sides are the same.'

How about instead of just deciding its basically the same case and move on, you listen to the women? Hear out the cases, and evaluate individually based on the merits? I think many democrats would be fine with an investigation into the Reade allegations. The republican response was to railroad through an investigation in a couple days, without interviewing witnesses. Kavanaugh immediately started crumbling and making absurd lies under oath. To my knowledge, Biden has not done anything similar.

There are differences in the cases, and you trying to stand above the fray just shows you don't actually care about the cases themselves.
 

UncleSam

Leading this village
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Sam you're privileged enough to have both parties act as viable conduits for your opinions. But this is false equivalency, and a trademark Republican tactic. It's absolutely absurd that 'centrists' get to play 'both sides are the same.'

How about instead of just deciding its basically the same case and move on, you listen to the women? Hear out the cases, and evaluate individually based on the merits? I think many democrats would be fine with an investigation into the Reade allegations. The republican response was to railroad through an investigation in a couple days, without interviewing witnesses. Kavanaugh immediately started crumbling and making absurd lies under oath. To my knowledge, Biden has not done anything similar.

There are differences in the cases, and you trying to stand above the fray just shows you don't actually care about the cases themselves.
I had a long post typed up here in response but I’ve no desire to get into an argument with you on this or any other website. If you disagree that the arguments provided by the poster I quoted don’t mirror Republicans’ arguments defending Kavanaugh then sounds good, I do not care. The rest is just a bad faith straw man built of things I didn’t say and to which I will not make any further reply.
 

Chou Toshio

Over9000
is an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
I'm not exactly a liberal and I'm hardly a democrat at this point honestly, but the fact that you blindly assume that off of a brief post and then proceed to make a sweeping claim honestly outlines a lot of what turns me off about these type of threads and why I seldom contribute to them despite contributing to virtually every other part of Smogon.

I refuse to get caught up in any debate or respond to posts laced in ad hominem, which this will undoubtedly devolve into if I respond beyond this, so I will simply state this: in my eyes, Trump is an evil that this country needs to vote out of office for a whole plethora of reasons, including the preservation of some of our most fundamental rights. Biden is a far cry from an ideal candidate, but he will not endanger the parts of America we know and love (if they are even still present by the end of 2020). I know of plenty of allegations directed towards Biden, some of which hold a lot of validity, but he is not a mass murderer and he is a saint when compared to the alternative.
Well Finchinator, just let me say (and leave it at) that you should not be surprised that there are big portions of the left that do see Biden as having significant responsibility in policies that have lead to suffering/ruin/death on a large scale at home and abroad-- and that it's an unchangeable fact that there are significant portions of the American left that don't see Biden and Trump as significantly different.

For my part, I am far from the only American leftist that sees Trump as better than Biden on relations with both China and the Korean Penninsula. Granted he has to do more now that North Korea is escalating currently, but Trump's failures to negotiate a road to more peace and economic relief is a far cry better than the refusal to talk by Obama (and promised refusal to "talk to dictators" by Biden).

And as an American who lives in Japan and whose family in Hawaii/West Cost is in North Korea's strike range-- that single policy area alone is enough for me to disqualify any notion of voting for Biden (though he is better on say, the Iran deal). Won't vote for Trump either, but Biden isn't good enough in any policy area anywhere for me to turn a blind eye to this piece of foreign policy that's extremely important for me.
 
Last edited:
Who do the brilliant minds of cong want for VP nom?

Answers including Nina Turner, Bernie Sanders, or Stacey Abrams are banned.
Susan Rice is a great choice imo. What Biden needs as vp is someone with foreign policy experience which most of the potential nominees lack. That's where Rice comes in.

Also, if you don't vote for Biden I'm sorry but I'm going to hold you just as responsible as any Trump voter when the US takes the plunge into full fascism rather than the fascism-lite that was Trump's first term.
 

Bughouse

Like ships in the night, you're passing me by
is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
From a purely political standpoint, Susan Rice has some pros and cons.

Pro:
  • Serious foreign policy experience at a time when the US will badly need to repair its image around the world.
  • Her UN ambassador experience gives her experience (and an ability to focus her VP candidacy) on issues that the majority of Americans think Trump has been horrible at - climate change, women's rights, LGBT rights, etc. Fits in well with Biden's theme of "Restoring America's Soul".
  • Long history with Biden, having been one of the earliest folks in on the Obama/Biden ticket and administration. Doesn't look like a calculated political choice to pick the "flavor of the month," but rather someone he knows well and respects.
  • Due to lack of previous elected office experience or aspirations, she's probably less likely to run for president to succeed Biden than most any VP pick would be, making it so Biden isn't tipping the scales. They could plausibly run on a ticket of Biden for 4 and even hint at an open field in 2024, which could help bring some alienated folks from the farther left who don't want to feel like they're voting for Biden for 4 years + Kamala (or whoever) for 4/8.
  • Also due to lack of elected office experience, she has roughly zero domestic record for folks to attack. You can't attack her for being a "socialist" etc, since she's literally never taken a position on taxing or spending priorities afaik. You can only go after her on foreign policy, which is tough when folks generally think so little of Trump's.
  • Still despite the lack of political experience, she has the requisite bare minimum experience to take over for Biden should it be necessary (job qualification #1 for a VP) given her background in national security. Other domestic areas can be led by congress if disaster were to strike, but she has the experience in the one area that really is dependent on the President.
  • For me personally as a DC resident, she'd be an effective advocate for DC statehood at the highest level (born and raised in DC)
Con:
  • Since her record is purely on foreign policy, she's gonna need to be a pretty quick study in 1) the Biden campaign's and Democratic Party's domestic policy platforms, and 2) being a candidate lol... she's literally never been on a campaign trail or in a televised debate.
  • The majority of foreign policy work is not very high profile and so any good work she did can possibly be drowned out by hammering a few buzzwords that people have heard about in a negative light
    • A return of Benghazi accusations, even if she's been repeatedly cleared and the attacks are nonsense (the attacks against her, at least, not gonna get into the attacks in general). Still, bringing her to the ticket makes Benghazi a thing again which is frustrating
      • It really shouldn't matter since even Trump's own admin cleared her, but just ugh... can we not give them ammo?
    • Iran Nuclear Deal, though not sure how much adding her matters, since this could also be thrown at Biden already and most any democrat would say they supported it/didn't support Trump reneging. Still, she's more closely tied to it than any other pick
  • This also means she doesn't have much else to deflect to if attacked on a particular aspect of her foreign policy experience. If attacked about Benghazi and she tries to pivot to X other example of what she did well with foreign policy and Trump's admin is doing wrong, she may get a bunch of confused faces and sound too wonky. Not sure how knowledgeable or interested the public is generally in foreign policy.
  • While she doesn't totally alienate anyone but the far right who wouldn't vote for Biden anyway, does she really bring in too many people or help win any particular swing states? The only "olive branch" to the left is that she's maybe not gonna run in 24 or perhaps is secretly progressive, but we literally don't know that since she has no domestic record.
  • She's not really known for being compromising or even pleasant (though the same would be said about a few other rumored picks). Already steeling myself for the racist/sexist dog whistles against her as an angry black woman.
 
  • While she doesn't totally alienate anyone but the far right who wouldn't vote for Biden anyway, does she really bring in too many people or help win any particular swing states? The only "olive branch" to the left is that she's maybe not gonna run in 24 or perhaps is secretly progressive, but we literally don't know that since she has no domestic record.
I can definitely accept that there are some flaws with her like you've stated above, but I don't feel like this one specifically is really a negative. I don't think you can find a choice who is less offensive to potential Biden voters as Rice. I don't really know if Biden needs to give an olive branch to progressives since it seems like most of them won't be satisfied if he nominates someone other than Nina Turner or Bernie Sanders (LOL). Maybe that's just really online progressives idk but regardless, I would think if you're one of those "Bernie or Bust" types, the best olive branch is another chance in an open field in 4 years. That's what I would say at least if I wasn't satisfied with Biden or any realistic vp choice. Regardless, the most important thing for Biden to do is to not offend people. He has an enormous lead rn, he just needs to not squander it. Plus, I think Rice would give people confidence if they're worried about Biden's age considering she has the most foreign policy experience of the group which is the number one job of the president. I do hate that Bengazi would be used against her, but you're right it absolutely would and maybe it would turn off some low information voters? But I still think the positives outweigh the negatives.
not really seeing how you're going to be able to hold anyone 'responsible' for the US plunging into fascism when they're literally out doing shit that's 10000x more important than voting to fight that
No matter what else you're doing, not caring enough to even vote against fascism doesn't seem like a great way to fight against it. Maybe it's just me, but voting for and campaigning for someone who is not a fascist against a fascist seems like you really don't care if fascism wins regardless of whatever activism or whatever you might be doing, no?
 
I don't 100% understand what you're saying there but it seems like, in your world, "voted for Biden? yes or no" is like, the main litmus test for deciding whether someone cares about fighting fascism. And what I am saying is, that is some sheltered world that is not reflected in reality. Someone who attended a single BLM protest has already accomplished orders of magnitude more than what would be accomplished by voting (especially for Biden). Like we are talking about people literally getting in the streets and making direct demands here (not to mention people who actually do consistent organizing work etc etc etc). There is just no universe where you have any ability to shame or 'hold accountable' such a person for the rise of fascism. How would that even make sense
 
not really seeing how you're going to be able to hold anyone 'responsible' for the US plunging into fascism when they're literally out doing shit that's 10000x more important than voting to fight that
Voting is really important.

I'm blanking on what these are even supposed to be. In general it is very rare that I see anyone point to anything specifically good about Biden. Just 'he is way better than Trump, trust me.'
Biden helped pass the ACA, oversaw the stimulus bill which had less than 1% waste, fraud, & abuse, was one of the main co-sponsors of the violence against women act, main co-sponsors of the Brady Bill, wrote one of the first climate change bills (back in the 80s), pushed Obama on gay marriage in 2012, helped raise taxes on the rich despite a GOP house majority in 2012, was one of the main people who stopped Robert Bork being on the supreme court. On top of this, people can trust that Biden will not be extreme in the bills he passed, and represents stability & empathy for a nation that is being torn by coronavirus, police brutality, and riots.

If you don't know what people like about Biden, you need to get off the Internet and go in the real world. He has a lot of support; he won in a landslide in a democratic primary despite there being 15 other candidates. The democratic establishment tried to push Kamala Harris, Warren, Pete, etc... but the actual voters voted for Biden. Biden is genuinely popular, and I'm glad we didn't nominate a far-left extremist like Bernie because I would not have voted for crazy Bernie.

Biden supporters are the silent majority. We don't like posting in political forums because they're full of activists who are so extreme and uncompromising in their views. But you bet your butt that we go out in the polls and vote
 
Voting is really important.



Biden helped pass the ACA, oversaw the stimulus bill which had less than 1% waste, fraud, & abuse, was one of the main co-sponsors of the violence against women act, main co-sponsors of the Brady Bill, wrote one of the first climate change bills (back in the 80s), pushed Obama on gay marriage in 2012, helped raise taxes on the rich despite a GOP house majority in 2012, was one of the main people who stopped Robert Bork being on the supreme court. On top of this, people can trust that Biden will not be extreme in the bills he passed, and represents stability & empathy for a nation that is being torn by coronavirus, police brutality, and riots.

If you don't know what people like about Biden, you need to get off the Internet and go in the real world. He has a lot of support; he won in a landslide in a democratic primary despite there being 15 other candidates. The democratic establishment tried to push Kamala Harris, Warren, Pete, etc... but the actual voters voted for Biden. Biden is genuinely popular, and I'm glad we didn't nominate a far-left extremist like Bernie because I would not have voted for crazy Bernie.

Biden supporters are the silent majority. We don't like posting in political forums because they're full of activists who are so extreme and uncompromising in their views. But you bet your butt that we go out in the polls and vote
"Far left extremist like bernie"
I hate US political opinions so much lmao. Bernie is like slightly center left.
Also Biden was getting his ass kicked in the beginning and it wasn't until the establishment all lined up behind him and pushed him down everyone's throats that he started winning lol so...
But regardless of this what lilyhollow is trying to say is that voting for Biden isn't what makes some "not a facist." Just like not voting for Biden doesnt mean ur a facist. The Obama administration pushed us in this direction with it's neoliberal policies and the Trump administration simply continued that in full force. Biden, who wants to increase funding to the police when people are calling for defunding or who's foreign policy would be terrible for countries like Venezuela or who opposes m4a is not going to suddenly make things "stable" again (not that things have been stable for working class people for a while anyways). You can't just vote Biden and be complacent and happy that yay ur not a facist now if everyone else simply voted for him things would be Good tm. It doesn't work like that.
There are people who are organizing on the ground making actual changes on local and national levels who won't be voting Biden because they don't have faith in his neoliberal policies and his "leadership" , who are doing 1000x more work than someone who simply fills in a bubble at the voting booth and calls it a day.
 
Yeah I know to discount anyone who says “Bernie is center-left”. Really? The guy who proposed Medicare 4 All, Green New Deal, massive increases to immigration, Medicare coverage for undocumented immigrants, Free College, massively increase regulations, and raise taxes to levels we haven’t seen before is “center-left”.

You also have to keep in mind that local governments tend to be much more powerful in America than other countries. We don’t do everything through the federal government. Places like New York already have really high spending and taxes.

Even if we’re comparing Bernie to the rest of the world, he is firmly on the left. He is definitely far-left on immigration compared to the rest of the world.
 
Yeah I know to discount anyone who says “Bernie is center-left”. Really? The guy who proposed Medicare 4 All, Green New Deal, massive increases to immigration, Medicare coverage for undocumented immigrants, Free College, massively increase regulations, and raise taxes to levels we haven’t seen before is “center-left”.

You also have to keep in mind that local governments tend to be much more powerful in America than other countries. We don’t do everything through the federal government. Places like New York already have really high spending and taxes.

Even if we’re comparing Bernie to the rest of the world, he is firmly on the left. He is definitely far-left on immigration compared to the rest of the world.
...these are things that are very center left ideas, the US political system is just so far skewed to the right that you think they're radical leftist ideas when in fact they are not
 
Even if we’re comparing Bernie to the rest of the world, he is firmly on the left. He is definitely far-left on immigration compared to the rest of the world.
Comparing Bernie to the rest of the world is precisely why he is center left lmao. The US political compass and parties are right wing compared to many other countries in the world. The "radical ideas" that Bernie proposed are not only normal on other places but already implemented. Also the US has no labor or workers party. There's the right wing republicans and the center right wing democrats.

...you are sadly very, very mistaken.
Not hard to see how what I'm saying is true when you look outside the US and see how other countries function lol.
 

Apagogie

Zee you later
is a member of the Battle Simulator Staff
Yeah I know to discount anyone who says “Bernie is center-left”. Really? The guy who proposed Medicare 4 All, Green New Deal, massive increases to immigration, Medicare coverage for undocumented immigrants, Free College, massively increase regulations, and raise taxes to levels we haven’t seen before is “center-left”.

You also have to keep in mind that local governments tend to be much more powerful in America than other countries. We don’t do everything through the federal government. Places like New York already have really high spending and taxes.

Even if we’re comparing Bernie to the rest of the world, he is firmly on the left. He is definitely far-left on immigration compared to the rest of the world.
I generally don't follow these discussions because I'm Belgian and not American but if Bernie Sanders wants what you describe, he wants to create a new Belgium. Medicare for all, really cheap college (800 euros per year in Belgium and scholarschips if you don't have money), medicare for immigrants, really high taxes is what we currently have here. You are free to judge if it is a good or a bad thing but compared to the rest of the world, Bernie is definitely not "far-left" except if Europe is a hidden communist country.
 
Comparing Bernie to the rest of the world is precisely why he is center left lmao. The US political compass and parties are right wing compared to many other countries in the world. The "radical ideas" that Bernie proposed are not only normal on other places but already implemented. Also the US has no labor or workers party. There's the right wing republicans and the center right wing democrats.


Not hard to see how what I'm saying is true when you look outside the US and see how other countries function lol.
That doesn't dictate that the US Democrstic party as a whole has, as of recently, taken a hard left-turn on a vast swab of issues. Bernie Sanders has been the captain of that ship more or less, particularly with the now widely accepted idea of Medicare for All. The fact that progressivism has grown to be the norm in the party is telling enough. Don't lie about it though and paint it as Bernie is center-left, so the Democratic party as a whole prior to Bernie's insurgence was to the right. Bernie is unforgivingly a Socialist (in some cases even Communist lmao) as it is. I'm not saying that you don't have the right to support that (that's on you), but to insinuate that Bernie is anywhere close to centrist is absolutely blatant fallacy, and it has nothing to do with comparing it to the rest of the world stage.

P.S. or, alternatively, it's not comparing the US to the world, rather it's not willing to leave an echo chamber, in that anyone to the right of Nancy Pelosi is now a right extremist. The worldview is a bit skewed when the deciding factor of what is right or left is in your own bubble. Food for thought.
 
I generally don't follow these discussions because I'm Belgian and not American but if Bernie Sanders wants what you describe, he wants to create a new Belgium. Medicare for all, really cheap college (800 euros per year in Belgium and scholarschips if you don't have money), medicare for immigrants, really high taxes is what we currently have here. You are free to judge if it is a good or a bad thing but compared to the rest of the world, Bernie is definitely not "far-left" except if Europe is a hidden communist country.
Uhh, yeah, Belgum is pretty damn leftwing compared to the rest of the world
 
That doesn't dictate that the US Democrstic party as a whole has, as of recently, taken a hard left-turn on a vast swab of issues. Bernie Sanders has been the captain of that ship more or less, particularly with the now widely accepted idea of Medicare for All. The fact that progressivism has grown to be the norm in the party is telling enough. Don't lie about it though and paint it as Bernie is center-left, so the Democratic party as a whole prior to Bernie's insurgence was to the right. Bernie is unforgivingly a Socialist (in some cases even Communist lmao) as it is. I'm not saying that you don't have the right to support that (that's on you), but to insinuate that Vernie is anywhere close to centrist is absolutely blatant fallacy, and it has nothing to do with comparing it to the rest of the world stage.

P.S. or, alternatively, it's not comparing the US to the world, rather it's not willing to leave an echo chamber, in that anyone to the right of Nancy Pelosi is now a right extremist.
First of all the presidential nominee and the leaders of the party overwhelming are not for Medicare for all or a lot of Bernie positions. His positions are popular among the base but not the machinery running the party.
Secondly Bernie being center left does have to do with the rest of the world because I literally said I was talking about politics in general and not just the US. Funny how u r accusing me of being in an echo chamber when u can't expand yourself outside of US political opinion. There is literally someone from Belgium a few posts up being like "yeah he's not an extremist" lol.
 
Wow, this thread took off again.

It is definitely true that Bernie is center-left in the context of world politics. It is definitely true that Bernie is far-left in the context of American politics. The only part that really matters is using the proper context at the proper time. Any time that you want to connect your message to US politics, Bernie is far-left; on a thread like this, that should be most of the time.

Regardless of whether Bernie is far-left or center-left, though, what is important is the content of his ideas and how they would be implemented in the states.
 

termi

the eye of the needle
is a Tiering Contributor
two points i would like to make because i see the political understanding of some people in this thread is truly regrettable:

1. bernie sanders is not "far left" in any context in any meaningful sense. when i think far left, i think radicalism, in other words a rejection of the liberal* political (and economic) status quo as it currently exists for typically socialist, feminist, anti-racist, anti-imperialist reasons (some leftists are only some of these things but i find that such an anti-intersectional approach is not terribly conducive to "leftism" as a whole). bernie sanders does not reject the liberal political status quo, he merely seeks to work within it to reform certain things in order to reduce social inequality, so we might call him a "left liberal" or something along those lines. if your definition of "far left" is just some vague notion of being to the left of a perceived political center within a given context, i do not see how an accusation against someone of being "far left" is a meaningful critique in any way

*when i say "liberal" i mean this in a meaningful sense, not in the way americans typically deploy it. if this confuses you, study the philosophical tenets of liberalism here, for example

2. building off my previous point, this divide between "the left" proper and progressive liberals or what have you also serves to explain why a group of people here do not find voting particularly important while others think it is The Most Important Thing Ever. if you are a liberal, you obviously find voting important because voting is, according to the political system you support, the primary way of acting politically. the goal of a progressive liberal is to reduce harm by voting for a government that gives more to social programs, socializes health care, strengthens gay rights, et cetera. however, if you are a leftist, you believe that the issues that cause social inequalities are necessary components of the existing political and economic order and that any progressive reforms will not hold in the long term and will merely temporarily alleviate inequalities. you do not have to have a degree in political science - although i do - to understand that institutional problems cannot be truly resolved without completely reworking if not abolishing said institutions. reducing harm by voting for the guy who's more "to the left" than the other guy therefore is simply not nearly as relevant to a leftist's politics compared to those of a liberal. this does not mean that a principled leftist has no reason to vote at all, just that there are less good reasons to do so and more reasons not to

as an aside, i expect some people to question how it is possible that, if bernie sanders is not actually far left, a number of vocal bernie supporters argue against voting biden. to this i would simply reply that when one grows up in a liberal political culture, one learns to talk and think like a liberal. some fledgling leftists accept a lot of radical left arguments (such as the fact that institutional problems require institutional solutions) but are not yet principled in their political position and hold on to certain tenets of liberalism, since that is what they grew up with (and one does not go from liberal to marxist overnight, believe it or not). other anti-biden bernie supporters may actually just be progressive liberals at the end of the day and have simply adopted something moreso resembling a radical position wrt voting in a positive moment of confusion - i suppose these are in some sense "bad liberals" and maybe in their case your "voting is your Duty" arguments may hold some water
 
2. building off my previous point, this divide between "the left" proper and progressive liberals or what have you also serves to explain why a group of people here do not find voting particularly important while others think it is The Most Important Thing Ever. if you are a liberal, you obviously find voting important because voting is, according to the political system you support, the primary way of acting politically. the goal of a progressive liberal is to reduce harm by voting for a government that gives more to social programs, socializes health care, strengthens gay rights, et cetera. however, if you are a leftist, you believe that the issues that cause social inequalities are necessary components of the existing political and economic order and that any progressive reforms will not hold in the long term and will merely temporarily alleviate inequalities. you do not have to have a degree in political science - although i do - to understand that institutional problems cannot be truly resolved without completely reworking if not abolishing said institutions. reducing harm by voting for the guy who's more "to the left" than the other guy therefore is simply not nearly as relevant to a leftist's politics compared to those of a liberal. this does not mean that a principled leftist has no reason to vote at all, just that there are less good reasons to do so and more reasons not to
What even is any of this BS? Do you want a medal for typing all of this up? How is any of this relevant to the problems we're facing now?

Look. Compare Michigan & New York - two states controlled by democratic governors - and Arizona & Florida - two states controlled by republican governors. Michigan & New York coronavirus cases, while initially very bad, are now done to less than 1,000 per day. Arizona, Texas, Florida, etc. are spiking massively. Republicans are actively screwing up the coronavirus response, and this is destroying our economy, our health, and my life.

Your political theories are cute. They really are precious. I want America to recover from coronavirus, and to do that, we need significantly better leaders in power. And the only way we will get leaders that care about dealing with the epidemic is by voting for Biden and other democrats (Mike DeWine, Larry Hogan, and a couple of other republicans are taking this pandemic seriously... the vast majority are not). Biden is a leader that has been around for decades, and I trust him to bring America back to what it was as he did w/ Obama from 2008 to 2016.
 

termi

the eye of the needle
is a Tiering Contributor
What even is any of this BS? Do you want a medal for typing all of this up? How is any of this relevant to the problems we're facing now?

Look. Compare Michigan & New York - two states controlled by democratic governors - and Arizona & Florida - two states controlled by republican governors. Michigan & New York coronavirus cases, while initially very bad, are now done to less than 1,000 per day. Arizona, Texas, Florida, etc. are spiking massively. Republicans are actively screwing up the coronavirus response, and this is destroying our economy, our health, and my life.

Your political theories are cute. They really are precious. I want America to recover from coronavirus, and to do that, we need significantly better leaders in power. And the only way we will get leaders that care about dealing with the epidemic is by voting for Biden and other democrats (Mike DeWine, Larry Hogan, and a couple of other republicans are taking this pandemic seriously... the vast majority are not). Biden is a leader that has been around for decades, and I trust him to bring America back to what it was as he did w/ Obama from 2008 to 2016.
your complete inability to engage with what i am saying or even beginning to comprehend how explaining basic ideological tenets might be relevant in a thread about politics is truly stunning. if you cannot reply to me without segueing immediately into some pointless nonsense then i would ask you to simply not reply at all, thank you very much
 
your complete inability to engage with what i am saying or even beginning to comprehend how explaining basic ideological tenets might be relevant in a thread about politics is truly stunning. if you cannot reply to me without segueing immediately into some pointless nonsense then i would ask you to simply not reply at all, thank you very much
My point is that while you are focused entirely on theory, I'm in the real world and want to fix the disaster we're in right now. Have fun with these inane, esoteric, & nebulous posts on the Internet. I want my life back.

Apparently wanting to stop the spread of coronavirus is "pointless nonsense". What? Are you a real person? Do you not realize what is going on in the world today?
 
My point is that while you are focused entirely on theory, I'm in the real world and want to fix the disaster we're in right now. Have fun with these inane, esoteric, & nebulous posts on the Internet. I want my life back.

Apparently wanting to stop the spread of coronavirus is "pointless nonsense". What? Are you a real person? Do you not realize what is going on in the world today?
I cant tell if ur trolling right now or... lol
we were talking about US perception of "the left" and termi made some really interesting points of distinction between liberals and the left and some dynamics in the US.
and then you came in and talked about... covid and democratic states and republican states? no actual reply to the actual conversation at hand or to what termi brought up which was an incredibly thoughtful post informed by her expertise in the area considering she has a degree in polisci (which Im assuming u dont). you brought up a completely different topic and then pretended as if you were "above" the conversation for caring about covid... when that's not even what we were talking about in the first place.
You had an opinion on "Bernie being extreme left" but then termi replies and you say "what is this BS how is this relevant to the real world/covid" and start concern trolling about how u care and that's why you cant respond to her valid points.
so when its your opinion, you could say it from a place without any expertise, clearly, but when she posts suddenly this discussion shouldn't be had at all. ok lol. at least ur stanning of biden is starting to make sense to me now.
 
I cant tell if ur trolling right now or... lol
we were talking about US perception of "the left" and termi made some really interesting points of distinction between liberals and the left and some dynamics in the US.
and then you came in and talked about... covid and democratic states and republican states? no actual reply to the actual conversation at hand or to what termi brought up which was an incredibly thoughtful post informed by her expertise in the area considering she has a degree in polisci (which Im assuming u dont). you brought up a completely different topic and then pretended as if you were "above" the conversation for caring about covid... when that's not even what we were talking about in the first place.
You had an opinion on "Bernie being extreme left" but then termi replies and you say "what is this BS how is this relevant to the real world/covid" and start concern trolling about how u care and that's why you cant respond to her valid points.
so when its your opinion, you could say it from a place without any expertise, clearly, but when she posts suddenly this discussion shouldn't be had at all. ok lol. at least ur stanning of biden is starting to make sense to me now.
Obviously I'm stanning for Biden. I think he would be a good president. His policies are overall on the left. He wants to expand the ACA, pass bankruptcy protection, expand pre-k & child care, pass the Equality Act, and other quality left-wing legislation. Most importantly, he will work with the experts on coronavirus and help stop the spread of this deadly disease that a lot of my extended family members have got infected with. I'm joining the 60 million+ Americans that will also be voting for Biden this November. I'm proud to vote for him, especially against the dangerous person we have in office now. I just find it bizarre how strangely radically left this thread is in comparison to the rest of America. The anti-Biden left is such a hugely & disproportionately online phenomena. They hold 0 power or influence in real life, and will continue to do so unless they exercise their right to vote (don't have to vote for Biden... just have to vote for at least SOMEONE on the ballot).
 

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