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Serious 2020 Democratic Primary Thread
- Thread starter MikeDawg
- Start date
Wasn’t that same rational applied to Trump’s initial term by some? “Trump will do so bad in his first term that we’ll be able to elect a true progressive in 2020!”
I didn't ignore shit. His governing record involves extremely racist bullshit like stop-and-frisk (which he continued to defend until he decided he wanted to run for president and realized that it looked bad) and severe nanny-stateism that represents some of the absolute worst of what people charge Democrats as.
I don't consider straight up authoritarianism to be a particularly Democratic value, but I'm also quite a bit younger than the boomers who make up congress, so maybe I'm on the wrong side of that.
Wait am I being likened to Susan Sarandon? (If so, thank you! I take that as a massive complement!)
You’re missing the point. Presidential vote is a binary choice. All ofthe Democratic candidates have sketchy pasts. However, they are all 100% better than Trump on the issues progressives care about. That includes Bloomberg. Your insinuation that he’s a Republican hack is objectively false. So once again, you’re either intentionally ignoring his governing record or you are committed to spreading your right wing propaganda.
I do not at all believe Bloomberg is 100% better than Trump on the issues progressives care about. Hence why I am committed to staying home if he's the nominee.
Climate?
Gun Control?
Taxes?
Infrastructure?
Immigration?
Health Care?
Which specifically?
If you’re a young person, the two are diametrically opposed on climate. That’s a significant in itself.
My perspective: I’m a black millennial. Bloomberg (probable racist) vs Trump (actual white nationalist) is quite an easy distinction.
Imagine liberals in Virginia calling for Ralph Northam’s (Governor blackface) resignation and black democrats in Virginia opposed the resignation. Do you know why that happened?
I believe Bloomberg is going to be another Justin Trudeau. He talked a big game about shutting down coal plants, but the all just became natural gas instead.
I am completely opposed to gun control. Bloomberg represents the absolute worst possible set of positions for me.
Bloomberg entered this race because he doesn't want to pay taxes on his billions, lol. If you think he's gonna tax the rich in any meaningful way, I've got several different bridges for sale.
I literally do not believe he will even touch this. As to why, it's how he cut New York budgets to make them appear balanced and then personally put money towards projects - which he would then threaten to withdraw if people acted in ways he didn't like. Infrastructure's just going to be that all over again.
This one's actually okay.
Not universal guaranteed coverage.
But here's some stuff this progressive cares about: restorative justice (especially around the USA's disastrous drug policy of the last 40 years). Real action on renewable energy. Real investment in geoengineering (like it or not, it's necessary now). Student loan relief. Demilitarization of law enforcement (NEVER going to happen with Bloomberg). Hell, law enforcement reform period.
But you know what, most of all? He's just a massive hypocrite. He's no different to me than John Edwards, the first person who I ever voted for, was. And I know in retrospect that if John Edwards was elected president he would have done fuck-all on anything he paid lip service to because he didn't care about any of that shit. All he cared about was saying whatever it took to get himself elected because he's a massive raging narcissist.
I'm not voting for Trump or for Bloomberg. If kristallnacht comes under Trump, at least I'll still be able to defend my home.
Governor Blackface was already elected and thus there was an obvious loss if he'd be gone, whereas here you're just trying to convince us to vote for a shitty candidate.
Also despite my hatred of what he's been doing around guns, Governor Blackface has at least managed something of a progressive agenda besides that.
Not gonna comment about any of your other criticisms of Bloomberg because, sure, he's kinda a shitty person and he does have some shitty positions... but this is just gross and out of line.
Please explain exactly how you came to that conclusion.
edit: I assume it has to do with Bloomberg being Jewish. And you know what? Fair enough. That's an analogy that shouldn't have been made given the circumstances. Truth be told, it didn't even go through my mind as I was typing the post, and I should have thought more before I did. Sorry.
As someone who is himself Jewish, I'm unlikely to be victimized by Bloomberg. But as someone who has seen minorities in NYC victimized during his tenure, I feel like it's important that they be able to defend themselves.
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But this gets into the heart of Bloomberg's un-electability. His type of conservative/liberal mix is exactly the type that will fold in the general.
Because the real heartland "center" of the country is Fiscal POPULIST/Left, Social CONSERVATIVE. Exact mirror opposite of Bloomberg (though we could easily say the same of Pete Buttegieg)
Being radically anti-2nd ammendment is what the heartland (and far left) DON'T want; it's what cushy suberbanites want the most.
Climate Action with none of the just transition/economic populism of the GND, but only in regressive gas/carbon taxes will be absolutely hated.
Also knowing this guy's super authoritarian and is going to be for more open trade, de-regulation, shift from progressive to regressive taxes-- yeah ugghhh no it's going to flop-- especially as Trump runs to Bloomberg's left on like, everything.
Stop and frisk: "Look, at my beautiful criminal justice reforms!"
Iraq War: "Mini Mike, still supports that stupid, stupid war to this day."
NAFTA/TPP: No comment needed
Social Security/Medicare: Insane, but Trump can actually make a credible case to run left of Bloomberg here
And it will just be really, really easy for Trump to supress the Democratic Vote because look we're all basically suppressing it ourselves and we haven't even gotten to Trump running ads about Mike yet.
Because the real heartland "center" of the country is Fiscal POPULIST/Left, Social CONSERVATIVE. Exact mirror opposite of Bloomberg (though we could easily say the same of Pete Buttegieg)
Being radically anti-2nd ammendment is what the heartland (and far left) DON'T want; it's what cushy suberbanites want the most.
Climate Action with none of the just transition/economic populism of the GND, but only in regressive gas/carbon taxes will be absolutely hated.
Also knowing this guy's super authoritarian and is going to be for more open trade, de-regulation, shift from progressive to regressive taxes-- yeah ugghhh no it's going to flop-- especially as Trump runs to Bloomberg's left on like, everything.
Stop and frisk: "Look, at my beautiful criminal justice reforms!"
Iraq War: "Mini Mike, still supports that stupid, stupid war to this day."
NAFTA/TPP: No comment needed
Social Security/Medicare: Insane, but Trump can actually make a credible case to run left of Bloomberg here
And it will just be really, really easy for Trump to supress the Democratic Vote because look we're all basically suppressing it ourselves and we haven't even gotten to Trump running ads about Mike yet.
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Sorry but cynicism isn't objective. The common theme here is that we should believe he supports positions contrary to his actual position. This applies to all candidates.
"I do not believe Sanders will even do Medicare for All"
It's a failed argument, so I'll kindly redirect you here:
https://www.ontheissues.org/mike_bloomberg.htm
Those are fair criticisms! Restorative justice and student loan are important issues. However, they are only two issues of many and you either glossed over the one's presented or argued on belief. It's fine to be a single or two-issue voter, just knock off the right-wing "both sides are equal" narrative.
The Democratic Base is not white, "culturally conservative" (another term for anti-black/brown/immigrant/gay) heartland voters. The base is people of color, urbanites, and women. People do vote on culture but you'll lose the Democratic base propping up the gun lobby. Those heartland voters are gone. They aren't coming back.
Was talking about General Election. We got to win back Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Michigan anyway. Don’t see Bloomberg doing that.
Also guys, new Nevada Poll!!
Attachments
Correct, we do. Or at least win Arizona. All 4 are winnable for generic Democrats.
The 2018 election, Democrats largely ran center-left candidates. The map reverted essentially back to 2012 but Democrats outperforming 2016 in Arizona, Nevada, Colorado, and Texas. This suggests the new map going forward.
Wisconsin is the toughest race due to a whiter electorate there and extensive GOP voter suppression in Milwaukee. Pennsylvania and Michigan went HARD Democrat in 2018 across the board. Those two are lost for Trump. Therefore, you might have a point in Wisconsin.. but it's tough to tell about the other states. People of color and women (Generic Democrat constituency) tend to be more moderate than progressive, so we'll see what happens.
Another tell-tale sign is Trump's approval in states. He's underwater in all states mentioned. Surprisingly he's underwater in Iowa as well.
Luckily we have actual evidence: his time as mayor of New York City. I believe he'll be another Justin Trudeau because his much-touted shutdown of coal plants just replaced them with natural gas, not something that was actually climate friendly. Etc. etc.
People don't get the benefit of the doubt when they've shown they don't deserve it.
Politico reporting that staff of other campaigns see Nevada as a contest of who can take 2nd. But we’ll see— I predict it will be even more ridiculous fuckery than Iowa.
・Do you guys think Warren’s campaign revives if she takes 2nd?
・Do you guys think Biden’s support is closer to the 18% of the previous poll, or the 14% of this one?
・Do you guys think Warren’s campaign revives if she takes 2nd?
・Do you guys think Biden’s support is closer to the 18% of the previous poll, or the 14% of this one?
The theme appears to be all or nothing. Replacing coal with natural gas is climate “friendlier.” It’s not ideal, but in some cases the interim solution is more practical for meeting demands of the present.
I think the person who’s in the White House right now has something to do with that; Hillary 2016 backers still feel contempt towards Gary Johnson and Jill Stein voters for the election result, because, you know, *clearly* Hillary was owed those votes despite being an unpalatable candidate
I understand the motivation towards “blue no matter who,” but I feel like it shows that Democrats would rather shame someone into voting for either a giant douche or a turd sandwich than nominate someone the non-voters / third party voters actually want to vote for. Doesn’t seem like they’re learning the lesson from 2016 so far
I am “Vote Blue No Matter Who” I’d vote for two five year olds in a trenchcoat over DJT. The Dem candidate I prefer the least is still way more preferable than the current POTUS.