2020 Trump Discussion

[atomicllamas]

I'm not calling for the deportation of her, I made it clear I actually disagree with Trump's move in saying that. I agree with the primary premise in that if you truly hate America, why don't you go "help" somewhere else. I disagree with people saying to deport her at trump's latest rally, imo that's where it got nasty (if the situation in itself wasn't already). Are you sure what AOC and Omar are saying are being taken out of context though? I think it's pretty difficult to defend calling ICE detention centers "concentration camps," imo that's one of many things said that are definitely not out of context. I've found "the squad" to be pretty damn blatant in their comments. Another one being Pressly claiming that some are not gay, christian, black, so on and so forth just because they disagree with her radical agenda. Is that out of context too? It doesn;t seem like it.

I get where you're going, I really do, but no I don't believe there is a double standard. Free Speech is universal as I've mentioned numerous times so long as it does not incite violence, I'm in complete agreement that's where the speech is no longer defended. The counter argument to saying Omar should be deported would be ignoring it (because let's be honest, that notion holds absolutely no power nor legislative backing, I think you and I agree that's obvious) or protesting against it. I'm protesting against those remarks, I found it disgusting that the crowd would chant that. It's a pretty unAmerican notion. I was saying I understand the outrage (not so much that I condone it, personally I don't), because like I said, Dems didn't grow a pair to condemn her for what were pretty anti-semetic remarks (she's not just a spoiled brat, frankly I find her to be probably the worst congress person in history), yet they condemn Trump over his latest tweet controversy and then go even further to launch a failed articles of impeachment vote.

I really do agree with you both bases are becoming intensely polarized, it's coming from both sides and I don't like it either (to be blunt I see this shit here lmfao), that doesn't mean speech should get stifled. That's an all around horrible idea to compel speech. A great example is when Clinton called Trump supporters blatant deplorables, or Pelosi breaking house rules by calling Trump a racist. I was complaining at both instances (the first of which I was a moderate liberal at the time of the comment being made), it really comes down to a matter of calling it out no matter which side its on, but not beating around the bush to defend something, It either is or isn't, and nowadays I see this overdramatized, badly.

Sidenote: I have no clue why I need to repeat myself, I posted a shit ton about this and settled it a while ago, but yes, nazi's were kinda leftists. In saying that I'm not calling leftists nazis, a rectangle ain't a square, but it frustrates me when people try to cover up what history really was to support a false narrative. They pushed for state control wages, state control healthcare, among other soclialist policies that far-left advocates are pushing for today. It's in their damn name.

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

They went for the socialists and trade unionists first because nazis were totally left wing .

Also that was written by a conservative who supported Hitler initially (and was actually pretty anti-semetic), from Wikipedia:

“Like most Protestant pastors, Niemöller was a national conservative, and openly supported the conservative opponents of the Weimar Republic. He thus welcomed Hitler's accession to power in 1933, believing that it would bring a national revival. However, he decidedly opposed the Nazis' "Aryan Paragraph". In 1936, he signed the petition of a group of Protestant churchmen which sharply criticized Nazi policies and declared the Aryan Paragraph incompatible with the Christian virtue of charity.
The Nazi regime reacted with mass arrests and charges against almost 800 pastors and ecclesiastical lawyers.”

“However, Niemöller only gradually abandoned his national socialist views and even made pejorative remarks about Jews of faith while protecting – in his own church – baptised Christians, persecuted as Jews by the Nazis, due to their or their forefathers' Jewish descent.”

You are dumb.

 

[Shrug]

noones going to be persuaded here, it’s probably bait anyway. “nazis are socialists” is a statement that you can never convince someone otherwise of because it is the result of a dramatically different ideological foundation from yours — if they believe that they probably don’t share your belief about what a “good” society looks like. The only place where these arguments have any potency or relevance is over the minds of the unaware or non-activated. There it’s important to refute that argument because it has a certain self-contained logic (it has socialist in the name!) that of course doesn’t survive the barest contact with historical fact. but I can’t think of a scenario where you’re arguing with someone to persuade a well-meaning non-ideological person over whether the nazis should be situated on the historical Right. The most common place this will happen is in the schools, which makes it a question of power (“textbooks are written by the winners”). Or else it will happen by bringing unattached people into an ideological network and spicing them with beliefs, this one of course being historically accurate and correct. we can all be surgical as we like in this thread, but there’s a reason truncheons are used for crowd control — telling people to read the futurist manifesto is always weaker on a mass scale than saying the name is the name.

 

[tcr]

the exact reason i refuse to engage in this “are nazis left or right” debacle in a non relevant thread. its utterly pointless. can we just move on already?

 

[Myzozoa]

if only there was someone whose job it was to remove posts that are just bad faith historical revisionism of, let me see, oh yeah: the Holocaust. yeah it's fine to just revise that up in 2019, idk why im surprised. i guess i should just know better than to engage in such trivial discussions

 

[Dece1t]

https://www.louderwithcrowder.com/myth-busted-actually-yes-hitler-was-a-socialist-liberal/

Pardon some of the casual language in this, but there is a point to be made. Pretty much the same points I've been spilling out this entire time that y'all conveniently wanted to ignore. Gun Control, tyranny of the majority, scapegoating some type of group (replace the 1% with Jews), state controlled healthcare, state controlled employment....why you deny that being a Socialist agenda boggles me, and frankly it's absurdly idiotic and nothing short of pathetic on so many levels.

You're bloody idiots to rewrite history, it's disgusting and dishonest.

 

[ghost]

https://www.louderwithcrowder.com/myth-busted-actually-yes-hitler-was-a-socialist-liberal/

Pardon some of the casual language in this, but there is a point to be made. Pretty much the same points I've been spilling out this entire time that y'all conveniently wanted to ignore.

You're bloody idiots to rewrite history, it's disgusting and dishonest.

Please find more persuasive bait next time

 

[Dece1t]

View attachment 186701
Please find more persuasive bait next time

You can quote the rest of that section anytime. You're only fooling yourself.

 

[earl]

You can quote the rest of that section anytime. You're only fooling yourself.

Dude a cursory glance of that source website shows anything but unbiased takes.

Plus, the rest of the article mainly just compares apples to oranges, such “Concentration camps = abortion clinics! Open your eyes!!!” Or other asinine things such as that (also gaystapo lmao)

Regardless I heavily doubt any modern day self-declared nazi also identifies as a democrat/socialist, which is much more applicable to our modern age.

 

[JALMONT]

what's really absurdly idiotic is the fact that i actually spent time reading that...

 

[GatoDelFuego]

https://www.louderwithcrowder.com/myth-busted-actually-yes-hitler-was-a-socialist-liberal/

Pardon some of the casual language in this, but there is a point to be made. Pretty much the same points I've been spilling out this entire time that y'all conveniently wanted to ignore. Gun Control, tyranny of the majority, scapegoating some type of group (replace the 1% with Jews), state controlled healthcare, state controlled employment....why you deny that being a Socialist agenda boggles me, and frankly it's absurdly idiotic and nothing short of pathetic on so many levels.

You're bloody idiots to rewrite history, it's disgusting and dishonest.

So how about the part where Hitler blamed the marxist bolsheviks for the depression? Or when the nazis disbanded trade unions? Plenty of right wing governments have implemented gun control (pinochet, mussolini). Just because nazi doctrine at one point has similar ideas to present day usa leftist views does not make the nazi party a "party of the people", or a "socialist party".

Stop posting bs and do some reading on things that don't immediately confirm what you wanted to see. So we can have this thread go back to its uh....intended purpose (?)

 

[Asek]

i guess deceits posts are a microcosm of sorts of something i think is quite genius (although perhaps in a lot of cases not intentionally so) about a lot of these modern conservative pundits - if you lead off with and ingrain the notion that academia is filled with lies and is just a left wing propaganda institute they can follow up with literally any other position no matter how rediculous. nothing matters because theyve conditioned their audience to dismiss anything that the people whove researched and have genuine authority to educate on these topics say in favour of listening to the guy's website who afaik rose to prominence for calling a gay journalist quote 'a lispy (BAN ME PLEASE)'and used the subsequent events to grift some shitty plastic cup and t shirt on why hitler is left wing.

 

[Ashaebi]

The biggest problem with socialism is you really REALLY need to ask yourself this question - what's really the difference between this and stealing from the wealthy simply because they are wealthy?

Answer: None

Secondly is if I was a wealthy businessmen and the state constantly asks me to forfeit 90% of my assets and earnings, sooner or later i'm obviously going to jump ship and either abandon doing business altogether or take it elsewhere. So the obvious question is yes you can redistribute my income but exactly how long will your socialist system work? Answer - only so long.

If you look at Venezuela, Cuba, Stalin's soviet union, Mao Zedong's China, Pol Pot's Cambodia, Ho Chi Minh's Vietnam, Che Guvara Argentina, and the North Korean Kim family line and many other nations that practiced this authoritarian forced wealth redistribution strategy has claimed a total of 100 million lives in a single century alone. For a frame of reference that's 20x more than the crusades did in 3 centuries.

Maybe this is another reason why Bernie Saunders is far from the socialist angel you think he is?

P.S Denmark and Sweden aren't socialist nations. Faaaaaar from it in fact.

 

[orch]

I'm not particularly bothered by the direction of this thread (Godwin's Law). I think that it's only natural, since the liberals, leftists, and democrats love to accuse Trump to be a Nazi or whatever. They do so, despite of Nazis clearly disavowing Trump as a Jew lover. The pictures of Trump wearing yarmulke and practically making out with Western Wall has made Trump immensely unpopular among Nazis.

 

[Myzozoa]

lol yah why pay taxes, it's just taking money from rich ppl because theyre rich

You are not allowed under any circumstances to infract or ban dece1t, hes the only person besides me and MikeDawg who make this place fun to read.

my idea of a good time is also forcibly making myself dumber, but i have weed for that not 'alternative facts'

Imagine a 2020 election thread with just tcr, myzozoa, and TheValkyries debating the minutiae of anarcho-communism and how it

wrong again, look at the high quality content ur missing

 

[TheValkyries]

how did so many people watch Robin Hood as kids and then grow up to be sheriff of nottingham bootlickers.

Also Myzozoa

 

[Bull Of Heaven]

If you guys don’t let Deceit keep arguing about the Nazis, he might have to stop ignoring my question about why he thinks any of those congresswomen hate America, and aren’t just critiquing some aspects of it and pushing for change like any remotely interesting politician including Trump.

 

[Ashaebi]

It's also important to note that integrity and honesty of a political party is absolutely vital to win votes. This is why quite a handful of minority voters who usually vote blue decided to pull the leaver for trump because they take trumps integrity and honesty over hillary's. No way am I suggesting trump is the most integral and honest man in America, on the contrary very far from that but let's look at what are some of the biggest forked tongue lies the Democrats have tried to push on the American people in just the first half of 2019 alone.

1. Covington Catholic kids hoax
2. Jussie smollett staged hate crime hoax
3. Erica Thomas hate crime hoax

And most recently AOC is caught trying to cry fake tears at a supposed detention centre which was later exposed to be a parking lot which is now a viral Internet meme. Snopes.com even tried to lie through their fucking teeth that AOC was crying at a detention centre even though it is clearly staged to be an empty parking lot which even puts the trustworthiness and integrity of fact checkers into question and rightfully so.

The statement 'fake news is the enemy of the people' has never been more true.

Wake up Democrats, this is literally why trump won and you have your fucking selves to blame. Stop wasting your precious time lying, staging false hate crimes and pushing a false narrative and maybe consider doing something that is actually practical and helpful to the American people.

 

[ghost]

It's also important to note that integrity and honesty of a political party is absolutely vital to win votes. This is why quite a handful of minority voters who usually vote blue decided to pull the leaver for trump because they take trumps integrity and honesty over hillary's. No way am I suggesting trump is the most integral and honest man in America, on the contrary very far from that but let's look at what are some of the biggest forked tongue lies the Democrats have tried to push on the American people in just the first half of 2019 alone.

1. Covington Catholic kids hoax
2. Jussie smollett staged hate crime hoax
3. Erica Thomas hate crime hoax

And most recently AOC is caught trying to cry fake tears at a supposed detention centre which was later exposed to be a fake parking lot which is now a viral Internet meme. Snopes.com even tried to lie through their fucking teeth that AOC was crying at a detention centre even though it is clearly staged to be an empty parking lot which even puts the trustworthiness and integrity of fact checkers into question and rightfully so.

The statement 'fake news is the enemy of the people' has never been more true.

Wake up Democrats, this is literally why trump won and you have your fucking selves to blame. Stop wasting your precious time lying, staging false hate crimes and pushing a false narrative and maybe consider doing something that is actually practical and helpful to the American people.

Which prominent political figures were pushing the Jussie Smollett story?

Are you for or against the immigration detention centers as they exist now?

 

[Ashaebi]

Which prominent political figures were pushing the Jussie Smollett story?

Are you for or against the immigration detention centers as they exist now?

I think you should ask smollett himself why did he stage a fake hate crime. There's overwhelming evidence it was staged.

And secondly no I am obviously not in favor of detaining people but deliberately exaggerating that the detention facility is comparable to a nazi concentration camp which AOC did is dishonest fear mongering. Also a massive insult to holocaust survivors.

I think our parents taught us not to lie for a reason. Trust takes years to build up, seconds to throw away and a lifetime to regain. Just saying.

 

[ghost]

I think you should ask smollett himself why did he stage a fake hate crime. There's overwhelming evidence it was staged.

And secondly no I am obviously not in favor of detaining people but deliberately exaggerating that the detention facility is comparable to a nazi concentration camp which AOC did is dishonest fear mongering. Also a massive insult to holocaust survivors.

I think our parents taught us not to lie for a reason. Trust takes years to build up, seconds to throw away and a lifetime to regain. Just saying.

You called Smollett's story a lie that Democrats were forcing on the American people. Which Democrats were pushing it?

How does AOC's (year-old) photo op change the material conditions within the camps? Do you think a picture of her crying by a fence is something people are using to determine how bad the camps are?

 

[Ashaebi]

You called Smollett's story a lie that Democrats were forcing on the American people. Which Democrats were pushing it?

How does AOC's (year-old) photo op change the material conditions within the camps? Do you think a picture of her crying by a fence is something people are using to determine how bad the camps are?

Both CNN and Washington Post initially tries to spread BOTH the Covington kids hoax and the smollett case but now has been taken down. In fact the former case have had WAPO sued for 250 million for 'damages'.

I do have this thou

https://edition-m.cnn.com/2019/02/15/entertainment/jussie-smollett-attack-details/index.html?r=https://www.google.com/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/washington-post-faces-250-million-defamation-lawsuit-for-covington-catholic-coverage?_amp=true

Again you didn't read my post above. I'm against detaining especially kids. You get caught crossing into someone's border illegally you should be intercepted and sent back but it is still wrong to deliberately exaggerate and create fear mongering via lying. Also its a massive offense to holocaust survivors.

Also allow me to ask you this:
1. Are you justifying these staged hate crimes are defensible
2. On what grounds do you think it is OK for a congresswoman to deliberately mislead people to think the situation at the borders is much worse than it is actually.

 

[Myzozoa]

a concentration camp is defined:

Concentration camp, internment centre for political prisoners and members of national or minority groups who are confined for reasons of state security, exploitation, or punishment, usually by executive decree or military order.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/concentration-camp

should put to rest any question of whether the label is accurate

as for the survivors:

"
Asked whether she found the comparison offensive, [holocaust survivor] Bloch said: “No, I identify.”
Bloch said the conditions reported at the border camps sound painfully similar to her own. “It’s the same conditions I lived through—we never had soap, but we had water, cold water, and not necessarily a shower. No toilet paper. It was inhuman.”

https://www.thedailybeast.com/holoc...etention-centers-are-like-concentration-camps

the appropriation and subsequent revision of the experiences of survivors of the holocaust by users itt in order dismiss violence by rightwing regimes in the present is p lamentable imo, it's a shame that once one gives up on facts no discussion can really be had

 

[ghost]

Both CNN and Washington Post initially tries to spread BOTH the Covington kids hoax and the smollett case but now has been taken down. In fact the former case have had WAPO sued for 250 million for 'damages'.

I do have this thou

https://edition-m.cnn.com/2019/02/15/entertainment/jussie-smollett-attack-details/index.html?r=https://www.google.com/

URL='https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/washington-post-faces-250-million-defamation-lawsuit-for-covington-catholic-coverage%3f_amp=true']https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wa...uit-for-covington-catholic-coverage?_amp=true[/URL]

Again you didn't read my post above. I'm against detaining especially kids. You get caught crossing into someone's border illegally you should be intercepted and sent back but it is still wrong to deliberately exaggerate and create fear mongering via lying. Also its a massive offense to holocaust survivors.

Also allow me to ask you this:
1. Are you justifying these staged hate crimes are defensible
2. On what grounds do you think it is OK for a congresswoman to deliberately mislead people to think the situation at the borders is much worse than it is actually.

1. No, I think Smollett is a hack. You, however, made some bullshit claim about Democrats pushing his hoax on the American people and since then have basically pretended you said something else
2. I don't see how a picture of AOC crying is misleading people about the camps? We have plenty of evidence about what the camps are like on the inside. You can see the above post for comparison

 

[Shrug]

ashaebi not including anything about the andy ngo antifa crime hoax. Hm.

 

[Ashaebi]

ashaebi not including anything about the andy ngo antifa crime hoax. Hm.

Wdym antifa crime hoax, it was on camera that ngo got his head constantly beaten to the point of a brain trauma. The photos and the entire video is there. That's hardly a hoax.

Wtf is this comparison.