C -> ANecessary for Arch rain teams.
B- -> AEffect spore, Rage powder, Sunny day, The possibilities are endless
-
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Metagame 2v2 Doubles
- Thread starter Kry
- Start date
C -> ANecessary for Arch rain teams.
B- -> AEffect spore, Rage powder, Sunny day, The possibilities are endless
VR has been updated, also Fragments has left council, thank you for your time.
A+ -> S
A+ -> S-
A -> A+
A -> A+
B+ -> A
A- -> A
UR -> A-
B+ -> A-
UR -> A-
B+ -> A-
B+ -> A-
B -> B+
B- -> B+
B- -> B
B- -> B
B- -> B
C+ -> B-
UR -> B-
C -> B-
C -> C+
C -> C+
UR -> C-
D -> C-
UR -> D
UR -> D
UR -> D
UR -> D
S -> A+
S- -> A-
A+ -> A
A -> B+
A -> A-
A -> A-
A -> A-
A- -> B+
B+ -> B
B -> B-
B -> B-
B -> B-
B- -> C+
B- -> C+
B- -> C+
C+ -> C
C+ -> C
C+ -> C-
C+ -> C
C+ -> C
C+ -> C-
C -> C-
C -> C-
C- -> D
D -> UR
D -> UR
A+ -> S A+ -> S- A -> A+ A -> A+ B+ -> A A- -> A UR -> A- B+ -> A- UR -> A- B+ -> A- B+ -> A- B -> B+ B- -> B+ B- -> B B- -> B B- -> B C+ -> B- UR -> B- C -> B- C -> C+ C -> C+ UR -> C- D -> C- UR -> D UR -> D UR -> D UR -> D S -> A+ S- -> A- A+ -> A A -> B+ A -> A- A -> A- A -> A- A- -> B+ B+ -> B B -> B- B -> B- B -> B- B- -> C+ B- -> C+ B- -> C+ C+ -> C C+ -> C C+ -> C- C+ -> C C+ -> C C+ -> C- C -> C- C -> C- C- -> D D -> UR D -> UR
(Everything below is my opinion not the opinion of council as a whole)
Necessary for Arch rain teams.
Effect spore, Rage powder, Sunny day, The possibilities are endless
Generally, with this level of powercreep thanks to SV, Pelipper feels really bad to use, even on rain. Generally your other mon will need to 1v2, I much prefer running Arch with Power Herb to pretty much skip the rain requirement (and also allows the use of Meteor Beam), or manual rain from something like Tornadus which has much better tools even without Drizzle.
For Amoonguss, generally I wouldn't recommend Effect Spore on most sets. Your main utility over other redirectors is Spore and having that blocked by a random Paralysis from being attacked is often an instant loss. Rage powder is nice though (and probably the only reason this mon is ranked at all to be frank) but it's typing doesn't favour it against a lot of top tiers, for Sunny Day support I would much rather have Torkoal or again even manual sun from Tornadus since if you're using Sunny Day you have a free turn for both opponents to double the Amoonguss or otherwise set up.
Three is not endless
Necessary for Arch rain teams.
Effect spore, Rage powder, Sunny day, The possibilities are endless
Ogerpon-Cornerstone A+ -> A/A-
I personally think Ogerpon-Cornerstones rank should drop further, it kinda flopped in UMPL and it hasn't been used much so far in 3 weeks of 2v2PL and that's certainly not what i expect from a A+ rank mon that defines the meta alongside the S Ranks. People first adapted with more spread moves like eg. Icy Wind/Dazzling Gleam on Flutter Mane + something to KO it like Scarf Zapdos-Galar before Iron Hands drop and since the latter dropped and usage of mons like Iron Crown increased it really struggles to justify usage over both Wellspring and Hearthflame Ogerpon (moreso the former). I personally would prefer a drop to A- as i write this where Incin is now.
I personally think Ogerpon-Cornerstones rank should drop further, it kinda flopped in UMPL and it hasn't been used much so far in 3 weeks of 2v2PL and that's certainly not what i expect from a A+ rank mon that defines the meta alongside the S Ranks. People first adapted with more spread moves like eg. Icy Wind/Dazzling Gleam on Flutter Mane + something to KO it like Scarf Zapdos-Galar before Iron Hands drop and since the latter dropped and usage of mons like Iron Crown increased it really struggles to justify usage over both Wellspring and Hearthflame Ogerpon (moreso the former). I personally would prefer a drop to A- as i write this where Incin is now.
It seems we are starting to actually say things in this thread :D. I haven't played a set of gen 9 in a long while tbh, but have started a project of building at least 5 teams a day until the end of pl. Will teamdump that hot garbage after but basically im saying is dont take my words like they are good.
Time to drop some noms, if i play gen 9 ever again ill get some better ones but like i dont play ladder anymore :(
Ur -> somewhere lol idk, good support, annoyingly bulky for no reason, it does no damage but indeedee does the same thing but a lot better so !dt 360
D -> ehhh like C+ With the right set (matcha gotcha suks in this meta) this thing can do a lot of things with the right supporting cast, Redirect, the best move in the world strength sap, and hits everything with shadow ball. I honestly love building with this stupid soup bowl or wtver and i think its very solid
B+ -> S I have to put this here for my brand, sorry for making u read this :). Incredibly bulky willo and helping hand, and... yeah im gonna stop trying to make a case for my friends.
A- -> B+ again, i don't play gen 9 much, but whenever i do this thing just sucks. It really feels like it needs 5 moveslots cuz protectless is so stupid. It doesn't ohko anything except with the meat beam and u can just protect it if u read it right. No support, its ability is good but like.. its one hit and if u cant deal enough damage back, its just not worth for me.
Im running out of ideas but i want to make my longest post ever just because imperial called me 2v2 guy yesterday.
B- -> B. Yes i know yall just dropped it but with the rise of gouging fire defiant is getting better. This speedy bird does lose to fake out, yes, i get that, but it gets a lot out of what it has. Can 2ko anything and ohko about half the things if you run adamant please run adamant, chien pao really helps this thing and that does constrict ur building with it but its still good. I really just keep yapping don't i... anyways, forces speed booster energy on everything kind of which is fun and exploitable :)
A- -> B Long neck guy... where do i begin, oh i know, I hate everything about this thing from the design to the fact that every single calc with it never works. Specs does like 99.6 max with thunderclap to flutter, iirc its exactly 50/50 with chien pao nobody likes those odds. What does this thing ohko with booster energy, it never gets ohkoed bu that doesnt metter cuz ur slow af, maybe yall can build with this thing but i sure cant.
"One Punch Man? Saitama? No, im the inferior two punch man, Sidepapa" I am MoBo - 2023 (had to squeeze that in there hehe ;)
Im getting tired of yapping tbh and of not sleeping cuz im stressed about lcbc :)
erm... what now, probably something about ursaluna suking cuz it cant take two hits and basically take a turn to charge up but i cant write no more, gn
"Suprise attack!" not really but um
UR -> C- every support move in the book, need i say more? oh except rediection and no good ability or attacks
ok now gn, will probably post something in this thread hopefully for every hundred post special if i dont for get, but for now bye ig feel free to tag me in the cord to tell me how wrong i am on everything :D gn
Time to drop some noms, if i play gen 9 ever again ill get some better ones but like i dont play ladder anymore :(
Ur -> somewhere lol idk, good support, annoyingly bulky for no reason, it does no damage but indeedee does the same thing but a lot better so !dt 360 D -> ehhh like C+ With the right set (matcha gotcha suks in this meta) this thing can do a lot of things with the right supporting cast, Redirect, the best move in the world strength sap, and hits everything with shadow ball. I honestly love building with this stupid soup bowl or wtver and i think its very solid B+ -> S I have to put this here for my brand, sorry for making u read this :). Incredibly bulky willo and helping hand, and... yeah im gonna stop trying to make a case for my friends. A- -> B+ again, i don't play gen 9 much, but whenever i do this thing just sucks. It really feels like it needs 5 moveslots cuz protectless is so stupid. It doesn't ohko anything except with the meat beam and u can just protect it if u read it right. No support, its ability is good but like.. its one hit and if u cant deal enough damage back, its just not worth for me.Im running out of ideas but i want to make my longest post ever just because imperial called me 2v2 guy yesterday.
B- -> B. Yes i know yall just dropped it but with the rise of gouging fire defiant is getting better. This speedy bird does lose to fake out, yes, i get that, but it gets a lot out of what it has. Can 2ko anything and ohko about half the things if you run adamant please run adamant, chien pao really helps this thing and that does constrict ur building with it but its still good. I really just keep yapping don't i... anyways, forces speed booster energy on everything kind of which is fun and exploitable :) A- -> B Long neck guy... where do i begin, oh i know, I hate everything about this thing from the design to the fact that every single calc with it never works. Specs does like 99.6 max with thunderclap to flutter, iirc its exactly 50/50 with chien pao nobody likes those odds. What does this thing ohko with booster energy, it never gets ohkoed bu that doesnt metter cuz ur slow af, maybe yall can build with this thing but i sure cant."One Punch Man? Saitama? No, im the inferior two punch man, Sidepapa" I am MoBo - 2023 (had to squeeze that in there hehe ;)
Im getting tired of yapping tbh and of not sleeping cuz im stressed about lcbc :)
erm... what now, probably something about ursaluna suking cuz it cant take two hits and basically take a turn to charge up but i cant write no more, gn
"Suprise attack!" not really but um
UR -> C- every support move in the book, need i say more? oh except rediection and no good ability or attacks ok now gn, will probably post something in this thread hopefully for every hundred post special if i dont for get, but for now bye ig feel free to tag me in the cord to tell me how wrong i am on everything :D gn
When is the 2v2 doubles tournament (not ou) gonna happen?
Look 2 posts above that? im really confused about this question...
Ok it might be weird for asking these questions but i am new to forums and very recently find out something like it exist.
To start I like 2v2 doubles a lot but I am very upset by the fact that how difficult is to climb ladder most of the time I would facing opponent which would have lower elo then me (by the time of writing this I am 1400+ elo) which means if I lose 1 match it would take me minimum 4 matches just to regain that elo it has to do with 2v2 d not being popular and there are not enough players. I really like this format but if things continue like this I may have to leave this format. That's why I am asking these questions because these 2 factors have a very important role in making a format popular.
Now my question are
Q1 why does some unofficial metagames like zu and 1v1 have their own room while other don't? Is it possible to create a separate room for 2v2
Q2 why does strategy dex of 2v2 doubles is empty I am willing to volunteer for creating some builds which are very strong (note I started playing 2v2 doubles 6 to 4 months ago but I learned about Smogon around a month ago)
I hope the 2v2 D council will notice my doubts and provide suitable explanation
To start I like 2v2 doubles a lot but I am very upset by the fact that how difficult is to climb ladder most of the time I would facing opponent which would have lower elo then me (by the time of writing this I am 1400+ elo) which means if I lose 1 match it would take me minimum 4 matches just to regain that elo it has to do with 2v2 d not being popular and there are not enough players. I really like this format but if things continue like this I may have to leave this format. That's why I am asking these questions because these 2 factors have a very important role in making a format popular.
Now my question are
Q1 why does some unofficial metagames like zu and 1v1 have their own room while other don't? Is it possible to create a separate room for 2v2
Q2 why does strategy dex of 2v2 doubles is empty I am willing to volunteer for creating some builds which are very strong (note I started playing 2v2 doubles 6 to 4 months ago but I learned about Smogon around a month ago)
I hope the 2v2 D council will notice my doubts and provide suitable explanation
I have some time on my hands so...
First thing: This is probably the case for like at least 50% of ladders, i mean off the top of my head, if you read column by column, anywhere past zu is dead except nat dex. I've played at least 70% of all the ladders, trust me, there are some worse ones.
Question 1: We used to have a 2v2/1v1 room, pretty sure that died and 1v1 just split off. Then we had a 2v2 room, barely 5 lines a day, so too inactive to keep the room going. Ums room is nice, i did like the 2v2 room tho :)
Question 2: Strategy dex is rough, it has to go through like 3 stages of writing, looking at old threads it took like half a year to get them done with all the inactivity. We can put the sets in a set comp but tough to get them into the strategy dex. I'm not 100% sure on the reason we never got to this in sv, kry or someone can hopefully provide a better explaination than me. :)
but for now,
c- -> c+ A- -> A, i like scarf, its fun :)So is there anything that players like us can do for this format?I have some time on my hands so...
First thing: This is probably the case for like at least 50% of ladders, i mean off the top of my head, if you read column by column, anywhere past zu is dead except nat dex. I've played at least 70% of all the ladders, trust me, there are some worse ones.
Question 1: We used to have a 2v2/1v1 room, pretty sure that died and 1v1 just split off. Then we had a 2v2 room, barely 5 lines a day, so too inactive to keep the room going. Ums room is nice, i did like the 2v2 room tho :)
Question 2: Strategy dex is rough, it has to go through like 3 stages of writing, looking at old threads it took like half a year to get them done with all the inactivity. We can put the sets in a set comp but tough to get them into the strategy dex. I'm not 100% sure on the reason we never got to this in sv, kry or someone can hopefully provide a better explaination than me. :)
but for now,
There are many favorite mons of mine which I want to use and experiment with but I can't because if I lose elo it would take way to long to regain I mean I can create an alt account but I am not only playing for elo I am also playing for fun and isn't this more about having fun then being a try hard
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And also is there any way that the room might be started again in future
Welp, we are out of pl, was fun, first time managing as well so time to post my teams from the challenge
https://pokepast.es/7ff6636d61ddc02d This is just for inspiration, if any of yall use these in tours ur fking stupid. I reused evs mostly cuz i was lazy. Anyways, see yall in other tours, ty for the comments about the teams sucking, i know...
Also with the teams i screwed yall over its not copy pastable lmao get rekt :)
also also idk what kry is gonna do about skymin but we can still rank it :)
ur -> idk A-? A?
And thats all im contributing to gen 9 2v2 for a while, um... GO HORSES WOOOOOOOO
https://pokepast.es/7ff6636d61ddc02d This is just for inspiration, if any of yall use these in tours ur fking stupid. I reused evs mostly cuz i was lazy. Anyways, see yall in other tours, ty for the comments about the teams sucking, i know...
Well we are working on reviving the tier in general, i think we got a set comp coming soon and also more tours with 2v2 in general. But i mean like dead ladders kinda just sit there, idk what to do about it
Defo a question for the council and not me, but i would assume no unless 2v2 really takes off again
Also with the teams i screwed yall over its not copy pastable lmao get rekt :)
also also idk what kry is gonna do about skymin but we can still rank it :)
ur -> idk A-? A?And thats all im contributing to gen 9 2v2 for a while, um... GO HORSES WOOOOOOOO
Some VR noms after 2v2pl
UR -> B-
Protect Encore Disable Rock Tomb is my go-to moves, speed control is really nice (especially if youre speed booster) and you can actually 1v1 some mons if you encore loop them, or just do encore disable stuff. I have seen other moves like twave used but you really want to have an attacking move usually. also rock tomb ohkoes talon lol
UR -> C
Cool typing + Competitive = good mon. I would usually run Air Balloon or Chople but stuff like sitrus probably work as well. Helping Hand, Icy Wind, other support stuff while having good matchups into many mons that use breaking swipe/snarl/intim.
UR -> C+
Can sometimes be better than Pelipper with stuff like genies cuz you get icy wind, helping hand yeah.
UR -> C-
Fake Out Encore is cool, I ran Air Balloon which makes you it a really good support mon. Unfortunately outside of gigaton hammer u do zero damage sadly.
UR -> D
Good typing, I ran AV once as an anti trick room mon since it's really slow and does good damage.
UR -> D
Cool Scarf mon, it gets wave crash, has intimidate and outspeeds basically all other scarf mons like kyurem gholdengo etc.
UR -> B-Protect Encore Disable Rock Tomb is my go-to moves, speed control is really nice (especially if youre speed booster) and you can actually 1v1 some mons if you encore loop them, or just do encore disable stuff. I have seen other moves like twave used but you really want to have an attacking move usually. also rock tomb ohkoes talon lol
UR -> CCool typing + Competitive = good mon. I would usually run Air Balloon or Chople but stuff like sitrus probably work as well. Helping Hand, Icy Wind, other support stuff while having good matchups into many mons that use breaking swipe/snarl/intim.
UR -> C+Can sometimes be better than Pelipper with stuff like genies cuz you get icy wind, helping hand yeah.
UR -> C-Fake Out Encore is cool, I ran Air Balloon which makes you it a really good support mon. Unfortunately outside of gigaton hammer u do zero damage sadly.
UR -> DGood typing, I ran AV once as an anti trick room mon since it's really slow and does good damage.
UR -> DCool Scarf mon, it gets wave crash, has intimidate and outspeeds basically all other scarf mons like kyurem gholdengo etc.
Updated speed tiers, still gotta add in a lot of the slower mons (metagross ursaluna etc) other ev spreads like min speeds or scarf mons, but for now I'll leave this here
If you have any suggestions/questions then just ping/dm me on cord
Huge shoutout to glitched for the previous formatting
If you have any suggestions/questions then just ping/dm me on cord
Key
Min Speed = 0 IVs + Reducing Nature + 0 EVs
-Nature = Reducing Nature + 0 EVs
Bulky = 0 EVs
Fast = 252 EVs
Max Speed = Increasing Nature + 252 EVs
Sun Boosted = Chlorophyll in Sun
Rain Boosted = Swift Swim in Rain
Energy Boosted = Protosynthesis / Quark Drive speed boost
Any instance of a Speed increasing item, ability, or relevant element will also be mentioned.
Bolded text will be used to indicate particularly important benchmarks
Min Speed = 0 IVs + Reducing Nature + 0 EVs
-Nature = Reducing Nature + 0 EVs
Bulky = 0 EVs
Fast = 252 EVs
Max Speed = Increasing Nature + 252 EVs
Sun Boosted = Chlorophyll in Sun
Rain Boosted = Swift Swim in Rain
Energy Boosted = Protosynthesis / Quark Drive speed boost
Any instance of a Speed increasing item, ability, or relevant element will also be mentioned.
Bolded text will be used to indicate particularly important benchmarks
| Speed | Pokemon | sprite | speed in tailwind |
| 76 | Bulky Torkoal | | 152 |
| 78 | Iron Ball Minimum Speed Indeedee-F, Iron Ball Minimum Speed Rillaboom | | |
| 85 | Min Speed Ting-Lu | | 170 |
| 96 | Bulky Amoonguss | | 192 |
| 126 | Bulky Ting-Lu | | 252 |
| 136 | Bulky Azumarill, Bulky Iron Hands, Bulky Sableye, Bulky Chansey |  | 272 |
| 148 | Minimum Speed Hoopa-Unbound, Minimum Speed Regidrago | | |
| 156 | Bulky Farigiraf, Bulky Grimmsnarl |  | 312 |
| 157 | Minimum Speed Indeedee-F, Minimum Speed Rillaboom, Minimum Speed Cresselia | | |
| 158 | Bulky Tyranitar |  | 316 |
| 166 | Bulky Scizor, Bulky Pelipper, Minimum Speed Deoxys-D | | 332 |
| 176 | Bulky Wo-Chien |  | 352 |
| 177 | Minimum Speed Mimikyu | | |
| 196 | Bulky Dragonite, Bulky Hoopa-Unbound, Bulky Regidrago, Bulky Okidogi |   | |
| 204 | Bulky Gholdengo |  | |
| 206 | Bulky Indeedee-F, Bulky Rillaboom, Bulky Cresselia, Bulky Kommo-o | | 412 |
| 216 | Bulky Annihilape, Bulky Arcanine-H, Bulky Moltres-G, Bulky Deoxys-D |  | |
| 218 | Bulky Landorus-Therian, Bulky Gouging Fire | | 436 |
| 228 | Bulky Mimikyu | | |
| 232 | Bulky Iron Crown | | |
| 237 | Bulky Annihilape | | 432 |
| 249 | Fast Armarouge |  | 498 |
| 256 | Bulky Ogerpons |  | |
| 259 | Fast Dragonite, Fast Hoopa-Unbound, Fast Regidrago, Fast Okidogi | | 518 |
| 267 | Fast Gholdengo | | |
| 269 | Fast Rillaboom, Fast Kommo-o | | |
| 273 | Max Speed Armarouge, Fast Great Tusk | | 546 |
| 275 | Fast Excadrill, Fast Pecharunt |  | |
| 279 | Fast Annihilape, Fast Arcanine-H, Fast Moltres-G, Fast Deoxys-D | | 558 |
| 281 | Fast Landorus-Therian, Fast Gouging Fire | | |
| 284 | Max Speed Dragonite, Max Speed Hoopa-Unbound, Max Speed Regidrago, Max Speed Okidogi | | 568 |
| 291 | Fast Mimikyu | | |
| 293 | Max Speed Gholdengo | | 586 |
| 295 | Fast Iron Crown, Max Speed Rillaboom, Max Speed Kommo-o | | |
| 301 | Fast Landorus-I |  | |
| 302 | Max Speed Excadrill, Max Speed Pecharunt | | |
| 306 | Max Speed Annihilape, Max Speed Arcanine-H, Max Speed Moltres-G, Max Speed Deoxys-D | | 612 |
| 309 | Fast Lilligant-H, Max Speed Landorus-Therian, Max Speed Gouging Fire |  | 618 |
| 311 | Fast Iron Treads | | |
| 317 | Max Speed Arcanine, Fast Ninetales-A, Fast Walking Wake, Max Speed Kyurem, Max Speed Kyurem-Black, Max Speed Indeedee-M |   | 634 |
| 319 | Fast Ogerpons | | |
| 320 | Max Speed Mimikyu | | |
| 321 | Fast Tornadus, Fast Scream Tail |  | |
| 324 | Max Speed Iron Crown | | |
| 328 | Max Speed Volcarona, Max Speed Mew, Max Speed Zapdos, Max Speed Zapdos-G, Max Speed Entei, Max Speed Ninetales, Max Speed Tauros-Paldea |   | 656 |
| 331 | Max Speed Landorus-I, Fast Iron Valiant |  | 662 |
| 337 | Fast Roaring Moon, Fast Cinderace |  | 674 |
| 339 | Fast Sneasler, Max Speed Lilligant | | 678 |
| 342 | Max Speed Iron Treads | | |
| 348 | Max Speed Walking Wake, Max Speed Ninetales-A | | |
| 350 | Max Speed Ogerpons, Max Speed Iron Moth | | 700 |
| 351 | Fast Talonflame |  | 702 |
| 353 | Max Speed Tornadus, Max Speed Maushold, Fast Shaymin-Sky, Max Speed Scream Tail | | 706 |
| 364 | Max Speed Iron Valiant | | 728 |
| 369 | Fast Flutter Mane, Fast Chien-Pao |   | 738 |
| 370 | Max Speed Roaring Moon, Max Speed Cinderace | | 740 |
| 371 | Fast Iron Bundle, Fast Barraskewda | | 742 |
| 372 | Max Speed Sneasler | | |
| 386 | Max Speed Talonflame | | 772 |
| 388 | Max Speed Shaymin-Sky | | |
| 405 | Max Speed Flutter Mane, Max Speed Chien-Pao | | 810 |
| 408 | Max Speed Iron Bundle, Max Speed Barraskewda | | 816 |
| 421 | Max Speed Dragapult |  | 842 |
| 439 | Scarf Max Speed Gholdengo | | 879 |
| 481 | Energy Boosted Fast Scream Tail | | - |
| 525 | Energy Boosted Max Speed Iron Moth | | - |
| 529 | Energy Boosted Max Speed Scream Tail | | - |
| 546 | Energy Boosted Max Speed Iron Valiant | | - |
| 555 | Energy Boosted Max Speed Roaring Moon | | - |
| 607 | Energy Boosted Max Speed Flutter Mane | | - |
| 612 | Energy Boosted Max Speed Iron Bundle, Sun Boosted Max Speed Lilligant | | - |
Huge shoutout to glitched for the previous formatting