its this bad we will never win a omotm, but grateful that we were picked for leader's choice
timbur isnt good enough to switch into pawniard or cranidos, u need to understand that once timbur switches into cranidos and takes 50, all cranidos does is switches into a timbur counter, which is clef/spritzee. timbur has no reliable recovery either. its pretty much deadweight vs cranidos and pawniard so being unable to 2hko timbur doesnt mean timbur is an answer to these mons. the closest answer we have is hippo/zyg-c thats itI can echo the worries of other people here. Pawniard and Cranidos are indeed wallbreaking monsters, but are very held back by their speed. I think however that defensive Timburr is awfully underated, especially with wish support from Spritzee.
Cranidos is unable to 2-Hit KO Timburr even with band, except with the non-existent zen headbutt or Head smash. Head smash puts it in range of non invested flame orb boosted mach punch, however.
252+ Atk Choice Band Cranidos Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Timburr: 202-238 (40 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Cranidos Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Timburr: 148-175 (29.3 - 34.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
Furthermore, Knock Off gives it great utility and Facade gives it a neutrally resisted way to hit most mons. Where Timburr truly shines, however, is against Pawniard:
+2 252+ Atk Pawniard Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Timburr: 237-280 (47 - 55.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Timburr is able to deal with even the strongest hits Pawniard can deal and to get life back with drain punch or, given prior chip, to always OHKO it with Mach Punch.
0 Atk Guts Timburr Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pawniard: 544-648 (169.4 - 201.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Guts Timburr Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pawniard: 292-348 (90.9 - 108.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
I would also like to point out that Sp. Def. Arceus-Dark is a great mon against the multiple psychic and ghost-type mons of the meta, with the exception of choiced ghastly, which can 2-Hit KO Arceus but has to lock itself into it's poison-type STAB which leaves it open to a switch in from a pursuit Pawniard or a Specs Analytic Magnemite.
Lol. Actually got a chuckle out of me irl.Well, that's true. It's unfair not to refer that it is hardly a counter but rather a check. Together with hippo, pawniard and cranidos are non-problems but it does go to show how centralizing they are, requiring two dedicated defensive walls on the other side.
Shieldon and Ferroseed are bad Pokemon in 350 cup.ok now u guys stop becuz playing a game isnt just as simple as u think. there are switching predicting and much more that affect all these calcs and not every mon is at full hp or what so like u dont say 'ferroseed and shieldon are non issues when pdon is a thing' u r just idle theroizing ok
I'd like to argue that that is only partially true.While Cranidos is incredibly strong and potentially suspect worthy I think we may be overemphasizing its strengths.
1) cannot do all the things we have discussed at once. It has the tools to beat basically anything switching in if it really wants to, but it can't run Rock Polish, SD, Ice Beam, Rock STAB, Zen Headbutt, Earthquake, Superpower, etc. all at the same time. While we have been heavily framing this as Cranidos CAN pick what walls / beats it I'd also like to mention that it is FORCED to do this. A scouted Cranidos is much less of a threat because it is much more likely that you will be able to wall it without randomly dying.
2) is significantly less scary to offensive playstyles due to their ability to pick it off with priority or scarfers. The only sets offensive teams have to watch out for are Scarf and Rock Polish, both of which are less common than pure breakers in my experience and less effective overall. Cranidos isn't particularly fast and it's frail enough that it doesn't want to eat a hit from anything other than a bulkmon.
3) is beaten by Pokemon that are common for reasons other than that they beat Cranidos. Vibrava, Timburr, Hippopotas, and Slowpoke wouldn't go away if Cranidos was banned. They all check Cranidos to varying degrees, although all are beaten by something dos can run. Essentially; whether it's broken or not it's IMO not overcentralizing, because the counterplay to it is good and common and easy to slot one or even more of on a team.
On the other hand... there is no true Cranidos counter. At team preview a Cranidos is never NOT a threat, because it can run coverage or boost past every single Pokemon that wants to counter it. The closest we have is Hippopotas, which dies to Blizzard.
I'm not trying to say Cranidos isn't broken, isn't suspect-worthy, or isn't S rank material (IMO it's A+ and Pawn is the only S but w/e). But it's easy to get wrapped up in the positives and forget the drawbacks.
Sorry that I didn't include more calcs or replays I may edit some in later.
Do not not not not change timburr to hitmontop. Ever.I wanted to share the team with which I got 1st place in the ladder. It's Spritzee Hippopotas Balance with Magnemite as a wall breaker and Abra as a fast strong hitting pokémon, also being a physical set-up check.
It's got Timburr, a mon I've vowed for which takes care of threats such as Carvanha and Pawniard but is heavily reliant on wish support to keep going, due to the residual flame orb damage and coming into these moves from pokémon with such high attack stats. It's got a standard Alolan-Grimer for fairy set-up and psychic/ghost special attackers.
Magnemite is the definition of a wall breaker, being able to 2HKO non-defensive Pdon with flash cannon on the switch, and heavily dent or flat-out KO vibrava and hippopotas if they switch into the attack. Furthermore it provides huge momentum with Volt Switch, allowing Spritzee to come in and heal bell or wish, for Abra to CM up or just make a huge dent in something with Psychic, or A-Grimer to trap.
While it's got a great match-up against most teams, it is flat out destroyed by a well played Spikes Offense. It also struggles a fair bit against stall, though Taunt on Timburr, CM in Abra, Heal Bell and Wish in Spritzee and the existence of Magnemite allows you to break through.
As obvious, I'm completely open to suggestions. There is always the possibility of changing Magnemite to Magnet Pull to trap Ferroseed. I have alsothought about changing Timburr to Intimidate Hitmontop to alleviate spike pressure but I have to test that. If you see any other options, do post.
I haven't ran the calcs but I assumed it wouldn't be enough. I actually forgot about Pawniard's defiant, which completely disqualifies Hitmontop as an option, even if it is able to run rapid spin. I completely agree with you.Do not not not not change timburr to hitmontop. Ever.
Timburr's debatable position in beating Cranidos aside, it is the best check you have right now that covers both of them, hitmontop is either too weak defensively or has intimidate which enables Pawniard to deal with them.
Magnemite is the sole reason I run Chinchou a decent amount these days, it does the job of tanking magnemite well and stops its momentum with V. Absorb. Other than that, Magnemite as a breaker is a monster.
if I had to nitpick something it's that I would run Clear smog over Pjab on the grimer. You're already running Gunk shot and while pjab additionally can be nice, it makes dealing with some mons a bit more difficult, particularly stupid stuff like set-up Abra with sash which 2hkos with HP ground. It's admittedly a very niche use, and you generally won't need it, but it does clutch some games I guess. I feel it's a fair matter of taste.
All in all I feel your matchup against stall gets troublesome when spritzee and chinchou are on the same team, because they just tag out. Grimer-trapping spritzee obviously being pretty useless bar a poison from touch, I feel the underuse of Chinchou is the main reason this team's going to work well. Beyond trapping it, which could turn out badly because scald can burn your grimer, chinchou kind of plays around this team reasonably well, all in all, if you ask me.
Edit: I realize HP Grass is there to hit Chinchou, but it's only there as an option and not as a main move slot, so i'm saying it's risky not to run it. It's also an annoying move to get locked into if the player predicts you.