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Battle Tree Discussion and Records

venomous72 said:
I am new to this a bit, but how can you tell he cheated?
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He's just assuming I cheated because I have a nice even number of 845, and because I have 0 teambuilding process, 0 sets, 0 thoughts on possible threats. I basically came on and said "Hey look, I have higher than anyone else". I'm currently adding my thoughts, sets and everything though...
 
venomous72 said:
I am new to this a bit, but how can you tell he cheated?
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Well if you're new to this, go ahead and try using that team. If someone can get a streak over 50% longer than the current longest streaks using it, it surely would be capable of getting you at least 50-100 wins pretty easily. You'd have enough BP to buy all the Mega Stones and whatnot in no time, so you'd have to be a fool to turn down such an easy method of farming BP!
 
GG Unit said:
Well if you're new to this, go ahead and try using that team. If someone can get a streak over 50% longer than the current longest streaks using it, it surely would be capable of getting you at least 50-100 wins pretty easily. You'd have enough BP to buy all the Mega Stones and whatnot in no time, so you'd have to be a fool to turn down such an easy method of farming BP!
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Altissimo said:
here's how: the very first thing he did was come to post the streak number and "loss" video rather than any, ANY information about the team itself, which just proves what his priorities are!
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see, this is why I never post anything :/

No matter what I do, I always get accused of hacking...

Set a regional record on Mk8. accused of hacking.
beaten cataclysm and bloodbath on GD. accused of hacking.
get a new score in battle tree. Accused of hacking.

Why should I even bother :/
 
Ludicrousity said:
see, this is why I never post anything :/

No matter what I do, I always get accused of hacking...

Set a regional record on Mk8. accused of hacking.
beaten cataclysm and bloodbath on GD. accused of hacking.
get a new score in battle tree. Accused of hacking.

Why should I even bother :/
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That's a very good question. Why would you even bother making up such an obviously bad and flawed team to claim a fake record? At least put a little more creativity into it. Let me guess - all three team members have 252/252 EV spreads lol
 
GG Unit said:
Well if you're new to this, go ahead and try using that team. If someone can get a streak over 50% longer than the current longest streaks using it, it surely would be capable of getting you at least 50-100 wins pretty easily. You'd have enough BP to buy all the Mega Stones and whatnot in no time, so you'd have to be a fool to turn down such an easy method of farming BP!
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New to the forum/rules of this thread, not Battle Tree/Maison/Subway in general.

I've actually been running a variation of iVolke's team and it has been going well so I'll probably stick with that one :)
 
Ludicrousity said:
Little more creativity? "Mega Salamence / Aegislash / Chansey" Very creative team you have there.
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Well thanks! The Chansey set I used was definitely viewed as unorthodox, but over time has proven to be a substantial improvement over what players were using previously. I hope other players are similarly inspired to rack up huge streaks using... Dragon Claw Mega Salamence and Focus Blast Pheromosa?
 
GG Unit said:
Well thanks! The Chansey set I used was definitely viewed as unorthodox, but over time has proven to be a substantial improvement over what players were using previously. I hope other players are similarly inspired to rack up huge streaks using... Dragon Claw Mega Salamence and Focus Blast Pheromosa?
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and now you're just evading my point, which goes to show that you agree at that team being unoriginal. Anyway, f*ck this, I'm outta here. No point wasting my time of someone like you
 
I just lost a 40 streak in Super Doubles. It's not impressive and I definitely need to improve my team.

Dragonite - Multiscale - Lum Berry
Jolly 252-ATK Split HP/SPE EVs
Dragon Dance - Earthquake - Fire Punch - Outrage

This is exactly the same Dragonite I use in my Super Singles streaks. For those comparing, though I don't see why, I said it was Adamant last time. Turns out, it's Jolly. I also used a spread I can't quite remember that has some HP/SPE investment but not max (I think I tried to hit the same speed as one of the leaderboard Dragonites). Honestly, I'm not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing and I might just important up one of my personally bred Extreme Speed Dratinis from last gen to replace this guy.
Dragonite is the slower of the two leads, so I can rely on him going second. With a DD, he's the faster of the two leads. This is kinda important because I can Earthquake+Roost if Dragonite is at +1. The moveset of Dragonite isn't exactly the best in the world but I find it pretty effective. Somehow, Outrage over Dragon Claw never really bothers me.
M-Salamence - Intimidate - Salamencite.
Adamant ATK/SPE EVs
Double Edge - Earthquake - Roost - Dragon Dance

What's better than one Dragon/Flying Dragon Dancer? TWO Dragon/Flying Dragon Dancers! Salamence here is faster, stronger, and can recover better than Dragonite. The two are surprisingly bulky (I mean they are Pseudolegendaries) and there's not a lot that can face the two to any reasonable degree.
I don't usually end up DDing with him past 30 wins, due to the fact that the leads start to be more of a threat. 99% of the time Double Edge is enough to take down the biggest threat the enemy can field. The rest of the time, Dragonite can follow up on it. This guy is basically a "choose one thing to stop existing" button.
Aegislash - Stance Change - Weakness Policy
Quiet HP/SPA EVs
Shadow Ball - Flash Cannon - Shadow Sneak - King's Shield

Aegislash is my one Special Attacker. I used to use this sort of set on a previous Aegislash but it was imperfect and I wanted a more dedicated set. It generally tries to go second because shield mode can defend better than sword mode. It's not supposed to be a tank, it's a damage dealer with coverage. It can swap into Ice Types, which are kinda a problem, as well as take on any physical attacker in the tree.
Weakness Policy is its only means of boosting up and it can normally take any super effective hit that might be aimed at it. I often trigger it with a +0 Earthquake from Dragonite. Even +1 with a crit doesn't KO shield form... And then it turns into a pretty strong mon.
Blaziken - Speed Boost - Life Orb
Adamant ATK/SPE EVs
Protect - Swords Dance - Flare Blitz - Low Kick

Well, I needed a bit more ice insurance. Blaziken can get to a very high speed very quickly and then strike reasonably hard. Pretty much a suicide mon but very effective at what it does. Swords Dance isn't really used due to how fragile Blaziken is. If I ever face against a bad matchup for Double Dragons, I will usually swap Salamence out for this guy. Basically the focus is on taking down the biggest threats. One or two KOs with this guy is all I need to feel like he has done well.

Generally the team strikes hard and mercilessly. It only really ends up having issues when it encounters fast mons that threaten me. Anything slower can usually be destroyed pretty quickly by strong moves.

TDDG-WWWW-WWW5-YT9P So I know I didn't get far but I'll write up details about my loss. First turn goes okay for me, Outrage hitting Mega-Latios for a KO after Dragonite tanked both that hit and Terrakion (4?)'s Rock Slide. Salamence hit for what looked like Focus Sash damage... But then Sitrus Berry procced. Checking it now... 252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence-Mega Double-Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 160-189 (95.8 - 113.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
Azelf comes out and the combination of the two manage to KO me, bringing me down to my last two mons. I probably should have swapped out Salamence at this point, honestly. I don't double-protect for some reason, leaving my Aegislash on 8 HP due to a Fire Blast+Earthquake combo. I think I just wanted to defeat Terrakion and I rushed it without thinking.
I protect with Aegislash and I strike with Blaziken on Tornadus. I don't get the kill. Turns out this is Tornadus-3, which is Bold. If it wasn't Bold, it probably would have KO'd. And despite having a low health Aegislash and showing that it has a Fire Blast... Azelf decides to go for and KO my Blaziken.
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Tornadus: 168-199 (90.3 - 106.9%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
Prankster ChestoRest is apparently a thing and an 8 HP Aegislash doesn't beat a full health Tornadus, even if Shadow Sneak does beat the Azelf.

So, what did I do wrong? Well, if I had gone for a Shadow Sneak onto Azelf on the turn I Blitzed Tornadus, at least one of the two would have survived. Probably Blaziken. If I had swapped out Salamence instead of going for the KO I might have been able to use him later as well. And of course, if either my Double-Edge or Blitz had KO'd then I would have won also.
Ah well. Maybe I'll get the stamp next time.

I'd like any advice the thread could give. I'm tempted to swap out Dragonite for a Pheromosa after seeing some of the streaks here and if I breed a new Dragonite, I'm curious as to good speed tiers to hit because I'm not exactly an expert at this. Any advice is appreciated and thank you for reading this.

And if you're into schadenfraude then watch this video. I am clearly a Pokémon master... 8U9G-WWWW-WWW5-YT93.

EDIT: This doesn't warrant its own post, but I lost again at around 41 using the same team. Here's my analysis:

Opponent led with Blastoise-3 and Greninja-2. Fake-Out + Ice Beam took out my Salamence on the first turn, with only half damage being done to Blastoise. Aegislash came in, tanking an Earthquake (activating WP) while a combination of Outrage+Flash Cannon took out Greninja and put Blastoise on very low health.
Politoed-1 comes in. I made a mistake in not switching Aegislash to shield mode. Outrage kills Blastoise and then Aegislash gets Swaggered. Hitting herself in confusion, Aegislash was left on critical HP... But also at +4 ATK. In fact, another mistake I made here was that I didn't just Shadow-Sneak the Blastoise. If SS had hit Blastoise, it would have meant that Politoed would have taken the Outrage.
Kingdra-2 enters. For an all-water team, this is probably the worst possible mon to come up. I make another mistake and try to shield up Aegislash, succeeding in this. Politoed went to -2 ATK and Kingdra-2 Dragon Danced. Outrage hits the Kingdra but Hassan Berry saves it.
Ice Beam drops Dragonite down to less than half health, Aegislash suicides via Confusion, and Outrage drops Politoed down to critical health. If this Outrage had hit Kingdra, I probably would have won.
Out comes Blaziken. Here I make a few mistakes. The first is Protecting for a Speed Boost. I got the +1 Speed but Dragonite got KO'd by Ice Beam so... Yeah. Just Blaziken vs Politoed and Kingdra. And here I make my biggest mistake. I use Low Kick on Politoed.
"Why is this a big mistake?"
Because Politoed was at -2 ATK, was basically just using Waterfall, and I could have KO'd the bigger threat in Kingdra.
-2 252 Atk Politoed Waterfall vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Blaziken in Rain: 98-116 (62.8 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
If I had gone for the Kingdra KO, I would have been able to survive the Politoed Waterfall (unless a crit). I had no chance of surviving against the Kingdra.

So yeah, I made a lot of mistakes that could have won me the game. I deserve that loss, but I am going to give Blaziken Baton Pass.
 
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hi, i am struggling in the battle tree despite thinking i had one of the best ideas ever so if someone could take the time and give recommendations on how to improve it and where the weakness lies i would be very grateful.

regigigas: normalium z
slow start (duhh)
impish nature max att ev and rest def and hp
-fire punch
-return
-earthquake
-zen headbutt

leavanny: cobba berry
chlorophyll
jolly nature max hp and speed ev
-entrainment
-leafblade
-sunny day
- helping hand

gardevoir: wiki berry
telepathy
modest nature max spattack ev and rest speed and a little hp
-heal pulse
-psychic
-t bolt
-calm mind

charizard: charizardite y
drought
modest nature max spattack and speed ev
-flamethrower
-dragon pulse
-air slash
-protect

so the idea is that leavanny tries to set up regi as a sun sweep and if leavanny is down before i can get sun up then i send out mega zard. gardevoir is there for assisstance with heal pulse.
this looks pretty good on paper so i dont see how it performs so trash

PS: i was just considering mega audino since it can have heal pulse and abunch of other great support moves
 
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Ludicrousity said:
and now you're just evading my point, which goes to show that you agree at that team being unoriginal. Anyway, f*ck this, I'm outta here. No point wasting my time of someone like you
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When I was referring to creativity, I meant in terms of dealing with threats. Something along the lines of "Salamence is 4x weak to Ice so maybe I should put something that resists Ice in my made-up team to make it at least seem remotely plausible to anyone with half a brain."

Getting a team member frozen solid by an Ice attack is such an obvious streak-destroying threat that every listed Singles streak of 200 or above has at least one Ice resist, and the overwhelming majority of them go above and beyond that by using either Tapu Fini or Chansey, which are functionally immune to freeze. So that alone would tell you that putting together a long streak is tough enough that there's not an awful lot of room for what you would call "originality," but what anyone who actually has played without cheating would call "not wasting time using a terrible team."

But anyhow, the idea of "originality" is an interesting discussion (at least more interesting than the faked team of someone who in Discord was providing fictitious accounts of defeating nonexistent Battle Tree foes such as Aegislash). There are certainly a lot more cool points or whatever to be had from winning an arbitrary number of battles with a unique team, but once that number gets sufficiently large it takes a certain amount of arrogance (or ignorance of basic math) to assume that you alone have discovered something that can stand up to everything the game can throw at you over hours and hours of play. After all, when you're talking about the difference between winning 800 straight or 200 straight (or even 200 straight versus 50 straight), it can very well be closer to 400 times (rather than 4 times) more difficult if you think probabilistically. In those cases, you pretty much have to use the overpowered stuff to make it through when push comes to shove.
 
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Ludicrousity said:
see, this is why I never post anything :/

No matter what I do, I always get accused of hacking...

Set a regional record on Mk8. accused of hacking.
beaten cataclysm and bloodbath on GD. accused of hacking.
get a new score in battle tree. Accused of hacking.

Why should I even bother :/
Click to expand...


I am an idiot who can't get 70 wins and I provided more insight on my team, sets, etc. If you're gonna try to fool us, at least put a little effort into it. Focus blast is unviable in the tree, you have no way of covering your teams weaknesses, and acting like a victim just makes you seem more suspicious.
 
Just a quick question, are teams containing Pokebank mons eligible for leaderboard consideration? Or is it strictly for Sun and Moon natives only?
 
After losing on the 95th battle and then the 92nd battle of doubles, I made a change to my team. Today I reached my 100th win!

FSHW WWWW WWW5 J54B

Talonflame
Item- Flynium Z
Ability- Gale Wings
Jolly Nature
252 atk, 252 speed,6 HP

Brave Bird
Flare Blitz
Tailwind
Protect

Buzzwole
Item- Focus Sash
Ability- Beast Boost
Adamant Nature
252 atk, enough speed to have 110 speed, rest in HP

Leech Life
Protect
Ice Punch
Earthquake

110 speed is 1 point faster than Blastoise, who in turn has 109 speed to be faster in Tailwind than + speed Mega Sceptile. I find getting a Leech Life off before Blastoise kills everything is helpful. It has saved me. He rarely needs his Focus Sash, but it's great to survive Brave Birds and Overheats. Sometimes he gets down to 1 HP, and then gets back to full with Leech Life, or takes a hit, leeches it back, and then survives a fatal attack with his Sash.

Mega Blastoise
Modest Nature
252 special attack, enough speed for 109 speed, rest in HP

Water Spout
Aura Sphere
Ice Beam
Dark Pulse

Clefairy
Item- Eviolite
Ability- Friend Guard
Bold Nature
252 HP, enough special attack to ko uninvested Hydriegons, some in defense, a little in special defense. I don't remember the exact EVs.

Moonblast
Follow Me
Protect
Helping Hand

Clefairy is so good. The only thing bad is if she is the last Pokemon alive.
 
Just lost on 92 on Super Singles. That was a fun run. I misplayed the last one for sure but I'll need to go back and watch the video to see where. Lost to a Dhelmise with Giga Drain and Phantom Force. Was a bit to much for Tapu Fini as my last mon.

Since this record would be so low on the list, is there any point in posting a pic/proof? It would probably get bumped off pretty quick.
 
venomous72 said:
Just lost on 92 on Super Singles. That was a fun run. I misplayed the last one for sure but I'll need to go back and watch the video to see where. Lost to a Dhelmise with Giga Drain and Phantom Force. Was a bit to much for Tapu Fini as my last mon.

Since this record would be so low on the list, is there any point in posting a pic/proof? It would probably get bumped off pretty quick.
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There's no limit on the number of entries on the list, as far as I know; as long as your streak is above 90 it'll be there. If you posted now it could be a tangible mark there for you to target down; I personally find satisfaction in climbing leaderboards :P Furthermore, why not just post your team details anyway? The more the merrier!
 
Level 51 said:
There's no limit on the number of entries on the list, as far as I know; as long as your streak is above 90 it'll be there. If you posted now it could be a tangible mark there for you to target down; I personally find satisfaction in climbing leaderboards :P Furthermore, why not just post your team details anyway? The more the merrier!
Click to expand...

Sounds good to me! I will work on team details today. Also, do you know how to do the 'Mon sprites in a post?
 
I lost this morning on battle 92. Wasn't really bummed, I just misplayed I think. The team is great. Coming into the Tree I was using Garchomp, Scizor, and Suicune, and while it worked great, I saw iVolke's list with Tapu Fini and had to try it. First is proof:

pxOr1bP.jpg


Here is the team:

Garchomp - Dragonium Z
Jolly Nature - Rough Skin
252 Atk / 252 Speed / 4 Def (I think)
IV's - Gold Bottlecap :)
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Fire Fang
- Swords Dance

Very standard set, about a quarter of the time he can Z-Move the first mon for an OHKO, EQ/Outrage the second.

Scizor - Scizorite
Adamant Nature - Technician
Standard EV spread, I can check when I get home if anyone cares.
IV's - Dunno.
- Swords Dance
- Roost
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Bite

Probably the workhorse on the team. After a Fini pivot it sets up so easily. Comes in against Ice and Fairy types.

Tapu Fini - Leftovers
Bold Nature - Misty Surge
I'll have to look up the EV Spread, but it is the standard Bulky set.
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Surf
- Protect

I don't know what else can be said that hasn't already been said. Fini is the anchor of the team and allows for status free setups or she just Calm Minds a couple times and sweeps herself.

The strategy is pretty simple - Hit hard with Chomp unless it is Ice or Fairy (or a faster Dragon). If a bad Chomp Matchup, pivot into Fini and set up. If it is a grass type (M Venusaur, Lilligant, etc.) switch to Scizor and hit with Bug Bite.

Really as long as you know your types and potential movesets of your opponents, you can switch to a favorable matchup pretty easily.

I will post the link for the video loss when I get home.

In the meantime I will probably brainstorm a new team to mess with a bit. Probably an M-Lucario, Hydreigon, and Fairy type of thing.
 
I just lost on battle 48 with this Trick Room team:

Oranguru @ Focus Sash
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Protect
- Trick Room
- Psychic
- Instruct

Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
- Protect
- Bonemerang
- Flare Blitz
- Shadow Bone

Wishiwashi @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Schooling
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
- Helping Hand (probably replacing with Protect)
- Hidden Power Grass
- Scald
- Ice Beam

Mudsdale @ Assault Vest
Ability: Stamina
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
- Rock Slide
- Close Combat
- Earthquake
- Heavy Slam

This is the first time I've ever used TR, and I basically just threw a few of the relevant 'mons I had together into a team, but it worked well. The loss was definitely avoidable, and would've been avoided if a Cofagrigus hadn't used Destiny Bond on Wishiwashi, but I'm sure the team can be improved a decent amount. Marowak is absolutely devastating for almost everything in the Tree, especially alongside Instruct, and Wishiwashi and Mudsdale have been pretty serviceable.

A few questions:
- What EV tweaks should I make to tank certain hits, especially on Oranguru (whose survival is usually pretty crucial)?
- Should I replace Mudsdale with something else or give it Life Orb instead of Assault Vest? It's been useful, but it definitely contributes less than Marowak and Wishiwashi.
- I was originally using a Mental Herb on Oranguru, but was finding at least in the early battles that certain OHKOs were a more frequent threat than Taunt was. Is there a good way to address both of those problems at once? (I assume leading with a partner that knows Fake Out is the best way, but I've found pairing it with Marowak, who shares its Dark weakness and uses Protect on Turn 1, seems to be pretty helpful because Marowak often gets targeted.)
- Other improvements I should make?
 
I finally got the Super Doubles stamp!

The proof: 4XRW-WWWW-WWW5-JG5F

And another video if you want to laugh at the AI's idea of a rain team: CU4W-WWWW-WWW5-JGAD. Pay close attention to turn 4 or you'll miss the joke. :)

I had a close call with a Glaceon that froze my Oranguru with Blizzard before it could set up Trick Room, and Grimsley's Liepard did something similar with Thunder Wave. The team was just bulky enough to scrape by even if Trick Room failed.



The team:

Hariyama @ Burn Orb
Brave, 252 Attack, rest split about evenly among Defense and Special Defense
Guts


Fake Out
Close Combat
Knock Off
Heavy Slam

-This is a standard lead Hariyama. I used to use Rock Slide on this, but Heavy Slam is much better due to the amount of Fairies you'll be fighting. Sure, there are no Tapus, but you'll see things like Sylveon, Aromatisse, Florges, Mega Altaria, etc. that you'll want Steel or Poison coverage for. Knock Off is mainly for Psychics and Ghosts, in addition to scouting movesets. I generally Fake Out and then attack until it dies.

Oranguru @ Mental Herb
Sassy, 252 HP, 168 Defense, 90 Special Defense
Inner Focus


Instruct
Foul Play
Trick Room
Protect

This is the typical doubles Oranguru. It's much sturdier than I expected, and even took a Life Orb Greninja's Dark Pulse pretty well online. Do not use Telepathy, even if Surf/Earthquake/Discharge/whatever is tempting. Inner Focus is needed for all those Fake Outs and other flinching moves that both the AI and online players like to use. Mental Herb is mostly for Taunt.

Drampa @ Dragon Z-Crystal
Quiet, 252 HP, 252 Special Attack, 6 Special Defense

Hyper Voice
Draco Meteor
Flamethrower
Protect

Z-Draco Meteor kills most things that don't resist Dragon, but a few very specially bulky things can survive it. Hyper Voice finishes off weakened Pokemon, and can do OK damage if Instructed. Otherwise it's a bit disappointing. Flamethrower helps with the odd Grass or Steel types.

Wishiwashi @ Sitrus Berry
Quiet, 252 HP, 252 Special Attack, 6 Special Defense

Muddy Water
Scald
Ice Beam
Protect

Yeah, Ice/Water is really terrible coverage, I know. But I didn't want to risk losing to Intimidate. The Sitrus Berry should probably be a confusion berry, but I don't have the right one for a Quiet nature, and Sitrus worked alright. Muddy Water is a spread move that doesn't kill your partner. Scald is more reliable than Hydro Pump, and Ice Beam saved me a couple of times against Dragon types. That, and Wishiwashi's special movepool is abysmal. All of its semi-interesting options such as Earthquake and U-Turn are physical. It does have the advantage of "out-slowing" almost everything without adding another Dark weakness like Slowbro/Slowking.
 
So after playing through tree up to the 90's or so, I feel like I have run into a pretty good variety of builds, so my question is:

What is keeping the top teams from the Maison off the leaderboards here? I know Khan got a nerf on Parental Bond, but the other trio that was popular in the Maison was Greninja, Scizor, Gliscor. Are people testing any of those teams still? Or are the new 'mons just being tested out because people were bored with the old ones?

I am trying to find a good spot for Greninja and noticed he is pretty absent from the leaderboards in the tree.
 
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