Singles 3v3 Singles (BSS) Discussion

[Photon]

So I've been experimenting with Aurorus on my current team. The thing absolutely will never be high-tier (low speed, huge type weaknesses) but I do think it has some unique tech compared to other Veil setters. Here is what I've got so far from the last couple of days on cart, if anyone is interested in trying it themselves:


Aurorus @ Focus Sash
Level: 50
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest/Timid Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Aurora Veil
- Blizzard / Ice Beam
- Freeze-Dry / Earthquake

Its main claim to fame is Thunder Wave; when paired with Sash, it can cripple a key target and still get Veil up on the following turn against most opponents. Dragapult and Pheromosa are the notable exceptions, though regardless they don't like being paralyzed. Blizzard is the obvious STAB-choice here with perfect accuracy in Hail and destroying several key targets even through their Dynamax (non-bulky Lando and x4 weak Dragons,) but I saw a lot of opponents try to change weather as quickly as possible to stop Veil so I wouldn't rule Ice Beam out as a safer option.

The last slot has some flexibility. Freeze-Dry OHKO's opposing Swampert leads and can 2HKO Max HP Fini if it tries to Taunt or Trick Scarf you (Scarf will make you faster than it.) I ran into a ton of Nihilego leads who I suspect were calling my Moltres-G and/or Cinderace in the back; Earthquake--another unique coverage option it holds over Ninetales-A and Vanilluxe--targets Nihilego's inferior physical bulk and easily dispatches of it. It also smacks steel-types Heatran and Magnezone pretty hard. And no, Modest Earth Power does NOT OHKO Nihilego, thus why EQ is chosen instead. One other option I haven't experimented with but may be worth a try is Icy Wind, giving a second speed control into Veil combo against TWave-immune pokes like Zapdos and Lando-T. Mirror Coat is yet another move that may be worth trying as well.

Other notable traits: Sandstorm immunity alongside your Hail immunity means weather never breaks your sash; Aurorus can run Stealth Rock instead of Veil if desired; if it can keep its sash intact, Aurorus can revenge kill Lando and several Dragon-types with Blizzard or Ice Beam + chip. I also tried to meme with Scarf + EQ mainly to smack some unsuspecting Nihilego leads, but the value of that set is far more questionable, lol.

I'm planning to run with it for a bit longer. My next plan is to pair it with Ferrothorn who can switch into some of the rain/sand-setters who try to deny it's Veil.

 

[DerpySuX]

So I've been experimenting with Aurorus on my current team. The thing absolutely will never be high-tier (low speed, huge type weaknesses) but I do think it has some unique tech compared to other Veil setters. Here is what I've got so far from the last couple of days on cart, if anyone is interested in trying it themselves:


Aurorus @ Focus Sash
Level: 50
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest/Timid Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Aurora Veil
- Blizzard / Ice Beam
- Freeze-Dry / Earthquake

Its main claim to fame is Thunder Wave; when paired with Sash, it can cripple a key target and still get Veil up on the following turn against most opponents. Dragapult and Pheromosa are the notable exceptions, though regardless they don't like being paralyzed. Blizzard is the obvious STAB-choice here with perfect accuracy in Hail and destroying several key targets even through their Dynamax (non-bulky Lando and x4 weak Dragons,) but I saw a lot of opponents try to change weather as quickly as possible to stop Veil so I wouldn't rule Ice Beam out as a safer option.

The last slot has some flexibility. Freeze-Dry OHKO's opposing Swampert leads and can 2HKO Max HP Fini if it tries to Taunt or Trick Scarf you (Scarf will make you faster than it.) I ran into a ton of Nihilego leads who I suspect were calling my Moltres-G and/or Cinderace in the back; Earthquake--another unique coverage option it holds over Ninetales-A and Vanilluxe--targets Nihilego's inferior physical bulk and easily dispatches of it. It also smacks steel-types Heatran and Magnezone pretty hard. And no, Modest Earth Power does NOT OHKO Nihilego, thus why EQ is chosen instead. One other option I haven't experimented with but may be worth a try is Icy Wind, giving a second speed control into Veil combo against TWave-immune pokes like Zapdos and Lando-T. Mirror Coat is yet another move that may be worth trying as well.

Other notable traits: Sandstorm immunity alongside your Hail immunity means weather never breaks your sash; Aurorus can run Stealth Rock instead of Veil if desired; if it can keep its sash intact, Aurorus can revenge kill Lando and several Dragon-types with Blizzard or Ice Beam + chip. I also tried to meme with Scarf + EQ mainly to smack some unsuspecting Nihilego leads, but the value of that set is far more questionable, lol.

I'm planning to run with it for a bit longer. My next plan is to pair it with Ferrothorn who can switch into some of the rain/sand-setters who try to deny it's Veil.

I would recommend earth power over earthquake, I get the damage vs Nihilego but honestly I don’t think that justifies running an otherwise inferior move, Aurorus shouldn’t be used to check Nihilego at all.
Other than that seems like a cool set.

 

[Photon]

I would recommend earth power over earthquake, I get the damage vs Nihilego but honestly I don’t think that justifies running an otherwise inferior move, Aurorus shouldn’t be used to check Nihilego at all.
Other than that seems like a cool set.

Let me try to justify that decision: first, there are very few things outside of Nihilego that Blizzard isn't already the superior option because of the limited number of Ice resists that don't also get cooked by Freeze Dry (which EQ may replace but they don't necessarily know that.) And if you're using Aurorus with a common screens abuser like Moltres-G, Nihilego generally wants to abuse you hard. Even if you have a clean counter to hit it after Aurorus uses TWave into Aurora Veil, Nihilego Meteor Beam/Beast Boosting off of Aurorus makes things messy even with Veil up and you have to have the right setup. Take for instance if you want to use SD Lando under Veil. Fast Lando EQ will easily take out a paralyzed Nihilego before it can do anything back, but now your opponent gets to respond to Lando with an Ice-type of their own who will still hit hard through Veil or, worse yet, a staller like SubSeed Celesteela. All the while your limited Veil turns are being used up.

I think Nihilego is a problem for screen setters in general (Regieleki, Ninetales-A, etc.) because a lot of them are special attackers that Nihilego can just sit on and boost through, and since Nihilego is currently top 10 usage you really need to gameplan around it. Nonetheless, this dilemma exemplifies near perfectly why Aurorus is so low in viability. Even if I EQ Nihilego and instakill it, I now have no Veil and have to recover from something else coming in and abusing the slow 1 HP dinosaur for a max move boost or otherwise. It has some unique trading tools worth using from the lead position (and a niche one in the back against certain Dragons) but it can't just be dropped into a team without building around it.

 

[Kiby]

Hi! I want to share my BSS team!
I made to 2011 points.

https://pokepast.es/eb8b95959c8d55a6

 

[zhangt6]

View attachment 294684Hi! I want to share my BSS team!
I made to 2011 points.View attachment 294700
https://pokepast.es/eb8b95959c8d55a6

not to nitpick but probably be better to share on the BSS bazzar side, and dang that ELO

 

[Omastar68]

I realize you'll hardly use anything but Fishious Rend but is it customary to run only 3 attacks on Dracovish?

 

[Ika Ika Musume]

I realize you'll hardly use anything but Fishious Rend but is it customary to run only 3 attacks on Dracovish?

I guess it is for higher chance of rend when sleep talking.

 

[Omastar68]

Oh that's really smart!

 

[HazedFlare]

To add on to Ika's post real quick, here is a paste of the Rank 21 team

Post: https://rosupoke.hatenablog.com/entry/2020/12/01/133259
Team:

Pokepaste: https://pokepast.es/61b186e4834d036a

 

[zhangt6]

Ika Ika Musume Kiby so why sleep talk on vish? It seems to be a trend picking up and outside of amoongus spore. Is it a way to switch in safely to yawn users without relying on misty/electric terrain and other items? Below are data screenshots off mobile HOME around 15:00 UTC time.

 

[RoyalReloaded]

Ika Ika Musume Kiby so why sleep talk on vish? It seems to be a trend picking up and outside of amoongus spore. Is it a way to switch in safely to yawn users without relying on misty/electric terrain and other items? Below are data screenshots off mobile HOME around 15:00 UTC time.View attachment 296112

if I had to guess, its so people have a reliable switch in to yawn hippowdon

 

[Ika Ika Musume]

Added in ranks 3, 8 and 11 teams. Also the above is correct yea, just sleep fodder.

Also, just an interesting tidbit based on 191 teams submitted so far to Nouthuca, this is the current usage stats. I could comment more on the below but I think it speaks for itself.

 

[zzang24]

View attachment 294684Hi! I want to share my BSS team!
I made to 2011 points.View attachment 294700
https://pokepast.es/eb8b95959c8d55a6

Hello there,

Im curious does the 2011 points respond to rank 113 in Masterball Tier? If so where docyou take your points from?

 

[Ika Ika Musume]

It does not, it is somewhere in the 300s

 

[marilli]

Hello there,

Im curious does the 2011 points respond to rank 113 in Masterball Tier? If so where docyou take your points from?

You can look at your points through the Pokemon HOME app. The image attached is a screenshot from the app.

While the season is still active, only the top 1000 players can look at their rating points. After the end of the season, everyone can.

Rating points are separate from placings. For example, 2011 points might have been at 113th place in 27th of November, but if he didn't play any more games for the next 3 days, other people could have overtaken him, placing him in 300s. This is because rating points do not decay, but why your standings will drop over time of inactivity.

Currently with the new season underway, the current 113th place only correspond to 1678 points. 113th place on the first day might have only been even lower points. Hope this is good enough clarification.

 

[zzang24]

Hope this is good enough clarification.

Yes thank you a lot. Its amazing to see the top rated teams with explanation. From what i can tell a lot of top teams run 2 physical staller pokemon and most dont have a special staller mon. Thats very interesting. The Dracovish Sleeptalk setup suprised me and i think its pretty smart given that there is so much sleep status around.

About Urshifu with Endure and Choice Scarf im not sure how this is supppsed to work i guess only when there is one more pokemon left for switching?

 

[cant say]

re: sleep talk vish

max guard is also super useful in a lot of situations.

 

[Ika Ika Musume]

I've been working on a new sort of team in my spare time but I do need someone to throw ideas around with, PM me and let me know.

 

[PPB]

So I've been experimenting with Aurorus on my current team.


Aurorus @ Focus Sash
Ability: Snow Warning
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest/Timid Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Aurora Veil
- Blizzard / Ice Beam
- Freeze-Dry / Earthquake
...Aurorus can run Stealth Rock instead of Veil if desired.

So here's an interesting variation of this I've been using myself:

Aurorus @ Focus Sash
Ability: Snow Warning
Level: 50
EVs: 172 Def / 84 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Aurora Veil
- Blizzard
- Stealth Rock

Focused entirely on utility instead of using the 4th move for coverage, this Aurorus takes advantage of Stealth Rock, which is a pretty great move for enabling sweepers alongside screens. Thanks to its natural bulk and lucky full paralysis procs, Aurorus pretty often gets a chance to get both Veil AND Rocks up in the same game (often after a thunder wave), despite its atrocious typing. The defense EVs' main purpose, ironically, is not to defend, but to not give Porygon2/Z a download boost in special attack. Another spread that can accomplish this is Naive nature with 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe and 11 SpD IVs, which allows you to get the most damage out of your Blizzards, but I think I prefer the added bulk.

 

[Photon]

So here's an interesting variation of this I've been using myself:

Aurorus @ Focus Sash
Ability: Snow Warning
Level: 50
EVs: 172 Def / 84 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Aurora Veil
- Blizzard
- Stealth Rock

Focused entirely on utility instead of using the 4th move for coverage, this Aurorus takes advantage of Stealth Rock, which is a pretty great move for enabling sweepers alongside screens. Thanks to its natural bulk and lucky full paralysis procs, Aurorus pretty often gets a chance to get both Veil AND Rocks up in the same game (often after a thunder wave), despite its atrocious typing. The defense EVs' main purpose, ironically, is not to defend, but to not give Porygon2/Z a download boost in special attack. Another spread that can accomplish this is Naive nature with 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe and 11 SpD IVs, which allows you to get the most damage out of your Blizzards, but I think I prefer the added bulk.

Doubling up on Rocks and Veil was something I had considered but I didn't try it because I figured it would be too inconsistent. I'd be interested to hear what kind of teams and matchups you've had success with.

Well, while we're on the subject, I might as well post the set that I showed in the Discord teambuilding channel:

Aurorus @ Focus Sash
Ability: Snow Warning
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Freeze-Dry
- Icy Wind
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder Wave

This was the set I arrived at and am still using after much experimentation. This set runs Rocks over Veil and has dropped Blizzard entirely, though Snow Warning is still good for breaking Sashes (and otherwise screwing with the opponent who might be trying to stop a non-existent Veil.)

As I said earlier, Thunder Wave is one of the primary reasons to use Aurorus in the first place and when paired with its Ice-typing it brings a unique niche. This set leans hard into the speed control aspect of Aurorus, slowing a foe down on the first turn and then setting Rocks on the next. Icy Wind allows you to speed control ground and electric types who ignore Thunder Wave and soften something up for the next member of your team. Freeze-Dry is kept over Blizzard because lead matchups against things like opposing Swampert are more important to win. The big idea here is to lead into an easy kill for something like Meteor Beam Nihilego.

You generally want to bring this set against offensive teams and bench it against beefier teams who don't care about paralysis or Rocks chip. Urshifu-R, Rillaboom and other priority users can also be a problem, especially the first one since he can cleanly beat you through Sash.

 

[cant say]

The defense EVs' main purpose, ironically, is not to defend, but to not give Porygon2/Z a download boost in special attack. Another spread that can accomplish this is Naive nature with 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe and 11 SpD IVs, which allows you to get the most damage out of your Blizzards, but I think I prefer the added bulk

I don’t think you know how Downloads works... P2/PZ get SpA boosts off these spreads

 

[PPB]

I don’t think you know how Downloads works... P2/PZ get SpA boosts off these spreads

Oh yeah you're absolutely right... I do know how it works but that was just a total brainfail on that one. Yeah just go 252SpA/252Spe and ignore that spread lmao.

 

[Omastar68]

This is probably best posted in Simple QWuestions but I don't want to double post(that thread has been dead for a while now lol) and it kinda fits here. Curse on ghost types is a thing in this meta, it didn't used to be iirc. In the same vein of a last move to sack a mon and bring in something on a nerfed foe, could Baby-Doll Eyes be good? I only just started using it on Alcremie which itself is niche but it seems good. Sometimes you can't do anything but weaken the foe indirectly before dying, and BDE doesn't cut your HP and is priority. So is it any good? I've little idea what else to run don't need Energy Ball coverage.

 

[Hex Poisonous]

What is the most common lead you guys run into?

 

[Photon]

This is probably best posted in Simple QWuestions but I don't want to double post(that thread has been dead for a while now lol) and it kinda fits here. Curse on ghost types is a thing in this meta, it didn't used to be iirc. In the same vein of a last move to sack a mon and bring in something on a nerfed foe, could Baby-Doll Eyes be good? I only just started using it on Alcremie which itself is niche but it seems good. Sometimes you can't do anything but weaken the foe indirectly before dying, and BDE doesn't cut your HP and is priority. So is it any good? I've little idea what else to run don't need Energy Ball coverage.

Baby Doll Eyes is a move that can definitely be useful, but it is technically situational. Since Alcremie doesn't really have an established place in the meta its kind of hard to say one way or the other without more context.

What is the most common lead you guys run into?

I would say there isn't really a good answer to that question. What someone leads is often dependent on how you match up with the opposing team. In short, several top tier meta threats are capable of leading.

I think a better question would be which leads do you need to be most aware of (ie which leads are the most dangerous to give momentum to.) Hippowdon and Swampert are both Rocks + Yawn users who need only two turns to lock down certain team compositions, so being prepared for them right out of the gate is a must. Nihilego often likes to go for turn 1 Meteor Beam as well, so that's another thing to watch out for.