Other 6th Gen Pokemon OU Candidate Speculation Thread

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While I don't see Tyrantrum becoming a common face in OU, just because things like Scizor shut it down so hard, but I can see it showing up every once in a while on teams that have trouble with Talonflame. Switch in, RP/DD, and sweep with STAB non recoil Head Smash. Good late game sweeper, because if Talonflame is already up and sweeping, its already probably mid to late game anyway. Tyrantrum is the dinosaur Rampardos wanted to grow up to be.

While we're on the topic of Breloom's viability, I don't think it's going to drop straight down to the bottom. But this generation shift has severely hurt it, no argument. I wasn't really talking about fairy types when I mentioned mach punch's decreased viability, I was mainly referring to the huge boon that ghost types got and their probable increase in usage, particularly Gengar and Aegislash, both of whom resist Breloom's secondary stab as well (although Gengar probably shouldn't stay in on even resisted phybsical hits). Aegislash even resists rock tomb and gives not a damn about the speed decrease. Gourgeist and Trevenant also resist secondary stab, though I don't know enough about them to make an educated guess as to whether they can be in OU often enough to counter breloom. Not to mention that the spore nerf hurts Breloom like hell, since Celebi is still probably going to be where it is in 6th gen and now solidly counters every aspect of breloom. And togekiss resists to hell and back both stabs and can outspeed and ohko with STAB flying. Basically, I see breloom sitting where Tentacruel was in 4th gen; a good pokemon if given the right tools and used carefully, but it has to be on a very specific kind of team with the proper support, and not just switching in and ravaging like in latter day 5th gen.

Edit: also forgot Low Sweep no longer gets technician boosted. Little thing, but it adds up.
 
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I'm not sure about Aegislash, it is a powerful threat, but not that much that it would be uber.
Greninja is likely OU as well, but I wonder about Delphox - it can use a scarf set rather nicely, and fire gem + magician could be a nice asset.
 
Not weak to aqua jet, he's neutral, though it probably won't matter to Azumarill either way. And mach punch will probably be less common now that Breloom has been thrown under the bus, plus the general nerf that fighting got this gen.

But just the fact that he's such a solid check, maybe even a counter to Talonflame might be enough to earn him a niche in OU

Because Talonflame is effin crazy
And exactly what Tyrantrum has over Barbaracle when it comes to doing something to the rest of the metagame aside of Talonflame?
 
And exactly what Tyrantrum has over Barbaracle when it comes to doing something to the rest of the metagame aside of Talonflame?

Recoil free Head Smash comes to mind pretty quickly. Dragon STAB. Greater physical bulk. A few other things that are less significant, like more speed and drawback-free set up.

But it's moot, because barbaracle has things that tyrantrum doesn't have like water STAB and neutrality to bullet punch, though the latter becomes less significant after the -1 from shell smash (unless white herbed). It's like scarf Salamence and scarf Garchomp in 5th gen Ubers; both fill the same role (fast strong dragon type clean up) but each with differences that you can choose to use depending on the nature of your team. Garchomp is immune to electric and outspeeds other base 100 scarfers, while it gets STAB EQ; Salamence gets moxie and the ability to kill ferrothorn easier.

Not that it matters in the end, as it doesn't seem as though either will be OU.
 
totally off topic but i see potential in bulkup roost talonflame running max attack and hp with a leftovers, i feel people are approaching the gale wing priority the wrong way, i feel talonflame can be a viable lead running
bulkup
roost
u-turn/flareblitz
bravebird,
bypass the stealth rock weakness by simply using it as a time bomb, bulkup through the first set of entry hazards and force a switch to somthing to deal with talonflame and get in a free hit, with the bulk and gale wing it usually gets off two bravebirds since most rock moves are physical, if brave bird can't twohit ko u turn out, with its base 129 speed it outspeeds most of the slower checks to talonflame and you get switch priority, at that point it can become a revenge killer with its priority or even wall certain physical sweepers with roost. Ideally support from a spinner is useful but ultimately talonflame won't be a sweeper so its not neccessary
 
totally off topic but i see potential in bulkup roost talonflame running max attack and hp with a leftovers, i feel people are approaching the gale wing priority the wrong way, i feel talonflame can be a viable lead running
bulkup
roost
u-turn/flareblitz
bravebird,
bypass the stealth rock weakness by simply using it as a time bomb, bulkup through the first set of entry hazards and force a switch to somthing to deal with talonflame and get in a free hit, with the bulk and gale wing it usually gets off two bravebirds since most rock moves are physical, if brave bird can't twohit ko u turn out, with its base 129 speed it outspeeds most of the slower checks to talonflame and you get switch priority, at that point it can become a revenge killer with its priority or even wall certain physical sweepers with roost. Ideally support from a spinner is useful but ultimately talonflame won't be a sweeper so its not neccessary

No way is something with 79/71 physical defenses living a x4 effective Stone Edge/Rock Slide. Especially after Brave Bird recoil.

The more I see and think about Klefki; the more I see it possibly eking into low OU.

As for Talonflame counters; I'm pretty sure that Gliscor can switch into it as well; Poison Heal makes whatever it throws a 3HKO at least. [I've seen people talking about Scolipede BP'ing a Swords Dance to Talonflame and they said it would 2HKO Gliscor; which suggests Brave Bird is a 3HKO/4HKO under normal circumstances]

81 physical attack isn't winning any awards people. Bulky pokemon survive BP120 STAB's from things with far higher base attack or sp.atk stats.

Also you can just force it to use Flare Blitz by sending out a Steel-type, and then switch in something like Azumarill.
 
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No way is something with 79/71 physical defenses living a x4 effective Stone Edge/Rock Slide. Especially after Brave Bird recoil.

The more I see and think about Klefki; the more I see it possibly eking into low OU.

As for Talonflame counters; I'm pretty sure that Gliscor can switch into it as well; Poison Heal makes whatever it throws a 3HKO at least. [I've seen people talking about Scolipede BP'ing a Swords Dance to Talonflame and they said it would 2HKO Gliscor; which suggests Brave Bird is a 3HKO/4HKO under normal circumstances]

81 physical attack isn't winning any awards people. Bulky pokemon survive BP120 STAB's from things with far higher base attack or sp.atk stats.

Also you can just force it to use Flare Blitz by sending out a Steel-type, and then switch in something like Azumarill.

ok maybe i exaggerated about living the rock moves but it can tank with one bulkup a surprising range of physical moves i thought about how i use talonflame and have come up with a better analysis of how i run it. Its really not a wall persay.

Talonflame Leftovers
Trait: Gale Wings
EVS: 252 hp/ 252 Atk / 4 Spd
Adamant Nature
-Bravebird
-U turn/ Flare Blitz
-Bulk up
-Roost
With this set my talonflame is usually the lead to throw off hazard leads, Giving me a free turn to bulk up and force a switch or drag the lead into a stall war that should end favourable due to priority roost and leftovers, the hp evs make bravebird sustainable and more importantly ensure two solid hits most of the time. I have run this set a few times and it was able to force unfavourable trades at worst and occastionally sweeping with 2 bulkups, With regards to u turn as a questionable attack it is there to esacape from head up matches that can't be won and salvaging talonflame to be a strong revenge killer for the rest of the match. The birds high base speed enables it to outspeed most of its checks and counters with u turn without any speed evs. Flare blitz may seem to be the more viable move but i perceive that most players expect talonflame to carry flareblitz and hence will work to counter a move that i don't even carry ( a metagame trick kinda) giving me free turns to get switch priority or bulk up. In summary my set is based around using bulk up and u turn to goad my opponent to give me switch priority while fufiilling the roles of revenge killer as well as conditional sweeper. ( 4x weakness the stealth rocks is usually not an issue due to the way i use talonflame its seldom lives more than one switch and as long as it trades favourably or gives me priority its job is done)
edit: regards to gliscor, with one bulk up talonflame can two hit ko gliscor with bravebird 50-58.8% damage calculated using damage calculator with a charizard with edited stats
 
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While I don't see Tyrantrum becoming a common face in OU, just because things like Scizor shut it down so hard, but I can see it showing up every once in a while on teams that have trouble with Talonflame. Switch in, RP/DD, and sweep with STAB non recoil Head Smash. Good late game sweeper, because if Talonflame is already up and sweeping, its already probably mid to late game anyway. Tyrantrum is the dinosaur Rampardos wanted to grow up to be.

While we're on the topic of Breloom's viability, I don't think it's going to drop straight down to the bottom. But this generation shift has severely hurt it, no argument. I wasn't really talking about fairy types when I mentioned mach punch's decreased viability, I was mainly referring to the huge boon that ghost types got and their probable increase in usage, particularly Gengar and Aegislash, both of whom resist Breloom's secondary stab as well (although Gengar probably shouldn't stay in on even resisted phybsical hits). Aegislash even resists rock tomb and gives not a damn about the speed decrease. Gourgeist and Trevenant also resist secondary stab, though I don't know enough about them to make an educated guess as to whether they can be in OU often enough to counter breloom. Not to mention that the spore nerf hurts Breloom like hell, since Celebi is still probably going to be where it is in 6th gen and now solidly counters every aspect of breloom. And togekiss resists to hell and back both stabs and can outspeed and ohko with STAB flying. Basically, I see breloom sitting where Tentacruel was in 4th gen; a good pokemon if given the right tools and used carefully, but it has to be on a very specific kind of team with the proper support, and not just switching in and ravaging like in latter day 5th gen.

Edit: also forgot Low Sweep no longer gets technician boosted. Little thing, but it adds up.
I really don't think Breloom's been hurt nearly as severely as people are imagining. I've been testing it out at length, and whilst it lost uses, it definitely gained some as well.

First, unpredictability. Whilst Spore has decreased in usefulness, Breloom gained a fair amount of coverage in the buffed Rock Tomb and Fury Cutter, which take care of a lot of its old threats. Fury Cutter is now a guaranteed OHKO on Celebi with rocks up, and Rock Tomb 2HKOs Trevenant unless it goes with +def and 252 HP/Def. Rock Tomb is also a solid 2HKO on Togekiss, who is outsped after the initial speed drop and cannot safely switch in, as well as dealing with old checks such as Latios/Latias, Volcarona and Gengar.

For all the hype about Aegislash as a Breloom counter, my Breloom has been shredding Aegislash so far. If Aegislash switches in on Rock Tomb or Mach Punch, it's safe, but without reliable recovery, it can't stand repeated switch-ins against Bullet Seed or switch in at all against Swords Dance, which turns BS into a 2HKO unless Aegislash is super defensive. Aegislash can't really do anything in return, either, unless it carries Aerial Ace (and let's be honest, it'd have utility against nothing except Breloom). King's Shield does squat since Breloom isn't attacking with contact moves, Shadow Sneak fails to 2HKO, and Sacred Sword can't OHKO. If Aegislash is foolish enough to go straight for a Shadow Sneak, Breloom's Bullet Seed will OHKO its offensive form 100% of the time after a Swords Dance.

Gourgeist is the only new Pokemon that really counters Breloom, and at this stage I haven't really been running into many of it.

Breloom also really benefits from Sticky Web support, since it helps to mitigate a weakness that previously could not be overcome. Thanks to much greater coverage, it's also effectively able to run a Choice Band set, with which it can 2HKO Skarmory with Superpower, OHKO Togekiss, 2HKO defensive Trevenant, and revenge kill Heatran.

I think you definitely have to be a lot more careful with how you use Breloom, relative to its heyday in Gen V, but it's still a very potent and threatening Pokemon. Its counters have just changed.
 
Talonflame will obliterate Breloom as long as it doesn't switch into Rock Tomb.
... Or Spore. Which means it'll never actually switch into Breloom at all. The risk will simply never be worth the payoff. At best, you force it to switch out (having taken out up to 35% of your HP with Mach Punch) to their Talonflame counter. At worst, you lose your revenge killer. At no point will you ever actually kill Breloom, because he'll never stay in against you.

I've been running Breloom in an environment were 3 out of 4 teams run Talonflame, and I've got to tell you, I've never had a problem with it.
 
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Delphox has the potential to be OU, perfectly capable of running a Scarf, Specs, or Leftovers, Scarf or Specs + Switcheroo / Trick was very popular last gen and don't see why they won't this gen, in fact they might be a bit more mandatory (unless trick doesn't work on mega stones). Fire Blast, Psyshock, and Shadow Ball provide almost perfect coverage (with Scarf / Specs Switcheroo ofc), not to mention that it could easily ruin a sweeper's purpose by using Will-o-Wisp, Light Screen, Reflect, and lastly a Switcheroo.

Delphox @ Scarf / Specs
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Spe / 252 SpA / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Switcheroo
- Fire Blast
- Psyshock
- Shadow Ball

Delphox @ Light Clay
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Spe / 252 HP / 4 SpA
Timid Nature
- Will-o-Wisp
- Mystical Fire
- Reflect
- Light Screen
 
Trick does not work on Mega stones. In fact, nothing can remove Mega stones: Knock off, thief, switcheroo, etc. all do not affect the mega stone in any way.
 
Trick does not work on Mega stones. In fact, nothing can remove Mega stones: Knock off, thief, switcheroo, etc. all do not affect the mega stone in any way.

Ok thnx for clearing that up (Was wondering forever) though it was kinda expected. Still SWitcheroo is sweet
 
From gen 6, definitely Gale Wings Talonflame is going to be OU. Strongest priority ever, excellent late game sweeper with immunity to sticky web and enough speed to outspeed max speed jolteon after sticky web with only 20 ev's on speed and a neutral nature. He doesn't mind SR weakness with so much power in a priority move.

I'm curious on where will Trevenant go. He is becoming by far my favorite staller ever, I'm not sure if he will go OU but after stalling to kill a couple genesects and heatrans makes me wonder it's true niche.
 
From gen 6, definitely Gale Wings Talonflame is going to be OU. Strongest priority ever, excellent late game sweeper with immunity to sticky web and enough speed to outspeed max speed jolteon after sticky web with only 20 ev's on speed and a neutral nature. He doesn't mind SR weakness with so much power in a priority move.

I'm curious on where will Trevenant go. He is becoming by far my favorite staller ever, I'm not sure if he will go OU but after stalling to kill a couple genesects and heatrans makes me wonder it's true niche.

IMO Supersize Gourgeist outclasses it. MUCH bigger Defense allows him many more switch-ins. Only thing Trevanant has over it is 10 more Attack, Natural Cure, and Horn Leech (Shadow Sneak > Shadow Claw).
 
Let's see, OU candidates:
-Greninja: Fast Spikes user, glass cannon, protean, great coverage
-Talonflame (possibly UU): Gale Wings, counter to Blaziken, good sweeper
-Florges: Strong Fairy type, high stats
-Aegislash (viable in Ubers): great coverage, can run various physical and special sets
-Slurpuff (possibly UU): Unburden + cotton guard/calm mind + berry
-Barbacle: Shell Smash
-Tyrantrum: Strong + Bulky Stealth Rock user, can use Choice Scarf effectively
-Sylveon: Very bulky Fairy type
-Hawlucha: Fast sweeper and baton passer
-Goodra: very high stats, Gooey, Hydration, good w/ Choice Specs
-Klefki: Prankster, ton of crippling status moves
-Noivern (possibly UU) very fast, can set up Tailwind, good Specs user, Infiltrator
-Zygarde: Coil + Extremespeed, 600 Base stats, good Physical coverage
 
IMO Supersize Gourgeist outclasses it. MUCH bigger Defense allows him many more switch-ins. Only thing Trevanant has over it is 10 more Attack, Natural Cure, and Horn Leech (Shadow Sneak > Shadow Claw).
It depends on how you use it. Harvest + sitrus berry and leech seed. You just watch them burn ;)
 
I think you definitely have to be a lot more careful with how you use Breloom, relative to its heyday in Gen V, but it's still a very potent and threatening Pokemon. Its counters have just changed.

Pretty much what I said:

a good pokemon if given the right tools and used carefully, but it has to be on a very specific kind of team with the proper support, and not just switching in and ravaging like in latter day 5th gen.


Delphox has the potential to be OU

Delphox will not be OU. People only hope it will be OU because it is a starter and people want their starters to be OU. Anything it does is done better by something else. Victini is a superior choice item user, due to better coverage and higher BP attacks; pretty much anything else is a better duel screens user because fire/psychic is an awful defensive typing, and it's not bulky enough to take many hits anyway, nor does it have an ability that lets it set up, like espeon. Chandelure tricks choice items better due to it's tendency to force switches. The only thing I can see it doing is being a fast fire type calm mind user, but that is such an incredibly specific and narrow niche that it's not going to help it get into any kind of OU slot. Plus, Chandelure is better at calm minding anyway, if you really needed a fire type calm minder, due to its immunities and far greater power, plus STAB ghost, which is like STAB dragon these days. Delphox isn't terrible, but its so average that it doesn't really make any impression.

Also

Talonflame (possibly UU)

lol
 
Let's see, OU candidates:
-Greninja: Fast Spikes user, glass cannon, protean, great coverage
-Talonflame (possibly UU): Gale Wings, counter to Blaziken, good sweeper
-Florges: Strong Fairy type, high stats
-Aegislash (viable in Ubers): great coverage, can run various physical and special sets
-Slurpuff (possibly UU): Unburden + cotton guard/calm mind + berry
-Barbacle: Shell Smash
-Tyrantrum: Strong + Bulky Stealth Rock user, can use Choice Scarf effectively
-Sylveon: Very bulky Fairy type
-Hawlucha: Fast sweeper and baton passer
-Goodra: very high stats, Gooey, Hydration, good w/ Choice Specs
-Klefki: Prankster, ton of crippling status moves
-Noivern (possibly UU) very fast, can set up Tailwind, good Specs user, Infiltrator
-Zygarde: Coil + Extremespeed, 600 Base stats, good Physical coverage

There's no chance Talonflame won't make OU - it's one of the most dominant Pokémon right now. With Stealth Rock much easier to handle, its 4x Rock weakness is not so much of a burden. Gale Wings Brave Bird makes it THE best priority user in the game, period.
 
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My vote goes to Kangaskhan. It's mega-evolution is a true beast. 2 attacks, the first at full power and the second at 50% power, but both have the full capability to inflict secondary effects. Not to mention, first hit will destroy a substitute, and second will still hit it.

1) Power-Up Punch on Mega-Kangaskhan becomes a damaging Swords Dance.
2) Sucker Punch allows it to do nasty things to Gengar and Mega-Gengar.
3) Fake Out gives it a "free hit" on just about everything.
4) Substitute needs no explanation.
5) Dizzy Punch gives it a STAB move that does decent damage, and when combined with the new mega-evo, enables it to (fairly) reliably cause confusion.

Its fairly diverse move-pool also includes:
-Earthquake
-Outrage
-Aerial Ace
-Rock Slide
-Shadow Claw
-Toxic
-Return (STAB-boosted)
It also has access to a good number of SpA moves that provide coverage, such as Fire Blast, Blizzard, Surf, Thunderbolt, and Solar Beam, although its SpA is really not good enough to take advantage.

It also has a few options ability-wise:
-Scrappy allows it to hit anything that might switch in while it is boosting with Power-Up Punch (Gengar, I'm looking at you).
-Early Bird allows it to use Rest as a fairly reliable recovery move.

If Kangaskhan doesn't make OU (or at LEAST UU), I might cry a little.
 
Coming in on the other side of things:

I have yet to come across a Mega-Gengar and actually be fearful of it. It could be just the players I'm up against (maybe all the good players are assuming Gengar will be banned), but on Pokemon Showdown, I have yet to actually fear Mega-Gengar. Mega-Gengar is good and all, but I'm at least handling him fine as a threat. It seems like the Mega-Mechanics just don't suit him very well, and despite the 170 base attack, he's not "wallbreaking" any of my Sp. Def walls at all.

On paper, Mega-Gengar looks so good. But in practice, maybe people just aren't playing him right yet? He's a revenge killer, that needs to set up for one turn before he can actually revenge-kill.
 
On paper, Mega-Gengar looks so good. But in practice, maybe people just aren't playing him right yet? He's a revenge killer, that needs to set up for one turn before he can actually revenge-kill.

Mega Gengar is no longer immune to Earthquake. Mega Gengar is still just as brittle as Gengar has always been. The thing that Mega Gengar gains is more raw power. I was running him with Dazzling Gleam, Sludge Bomb, Shadow Ball, and Thunderbolt, as a test for the Fairy coverage, and he wasn't really performing at any higher rate. He is a solid Pokemon, but just reminds me of Gengar with Life Orb.

As far as other OU candidates go, I don't even do Wi-Fi battles at the moment due to something that I can only describe as "Talonflame Anxiety".
 
Talonflame has potential for OU with its 494 base power acrobatics Sword Dance flying gem WITH priority, thanks to gale wings. Not to mention stab flare blitz (or a counterpart), priority roost, etc. I'm really interested in this pokemon.

Aegislash will be OU, gardevoir will be a great special wall in OU, Gengar could end up uber tbh. Florges will probably be UU special wall since gardevoir has a lot of advantages over it as a special wall, like a better movepool and access to a mega evolution. I think Pokemon like Vaporeon, Scizor, Jolteon and Starmie won't be too affected and will remain in OU. All I got for now.
 
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