Other 6th Gen Pokemon OU Candidate Speculation Thread

[Ropeburn]

I vote we get back on track with 6th gen pokes. All this arguing about banning and suspect testing is hurting my eyes. Leave that to the designated forums like Gengarite Tiering Discussion]

Anyway, my thoughts on OU viable 6th gen pokes are:
Greninja (fast, reasonably strong, protean abusing)
Talonflame (priority brave birds? 'nuf said)
Florges (some will argue, but she makes a great special wall comparable to Blissey)
Aegislash (stance change abuse)
Goodra (I have no clue what this dragon's for, but its better than a lot of people give it credit for)
Klefki (I want this banned to uber, but it might end up NU with usage everywhere. Who knows with this annoying set of house keys)
Zygarde (great physical tank, set up sweeper, and late game cleaner)

Everybody else I think will be phased out once pokebank hits. Several will see usage, but IMO, these 7 are the only ones who might get tiered as OU. I open myself to y'all's discussion, criticism, argument, likes, name calling, bad mouthing, scorning, and of course, neglecting!

To be fair, that thread is closed. Your list looks similar to mine, except it should be noted that tiers are based upon usage stats, not their power. Klefki will wind up OU if everybody is using it. I don't think florges will wind up OU, but it'll have a nice niche alongside Blissey with really powerful wishes. Definitely a solid UU, in my opinion.

I open myself to y'all's discussion, criticism, argument, likes, name calling, bad mouthing, scorning, and of course, neglecting!

Well, since you asked.....

 

[MagicMissingno]

Anyway, my thoughts on OU viable 6th gen pokes are:
Greninja (fast, reasonably strong, protean abusing)
Talonflame (priority brave birds? 'nuf said)
Florges (some will argue, but she makes a great special wall comparable to Blissey)
Aegislash (stance change abuse)
Goodra (I have no clue what this dragon's for, but its better than a lot of people give it credit for)
Klefki (I want this banned to uber, but it might end up NU with usage everywhere. Who knows with this annoying set of house keys)
Zygarde (great physical tank, set up sweeper, and late game cleaner)

You forgot Sylveon who functions like Florges but with a little less Special Defense and more HP. Really they're both OU worthy, which one you run will probably come down to preference.

 

[EtherDrive]

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Leavanny Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 439-517 (108.6 - 127.9%)
Clearly, Leavanny can be a good Sticky Web setter in the lower tiers. Its attack is good enough to nail annoying things like Musharna after a SD, and it's fast enough to outspeed Absol and knock it out with an X-Scissor. And like you said, BP can be used to gain momentum.

you wouldn't last two turns to get that leaf blade off unless stone edge misses

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

To be fair, that thread is closed. Your list looks similar to mine, except it should be noted that tiers are based upon usage stats, not their power. Klefki will wind up OU if everybody is using it. I don't think florges will wind up OU, but it'll have a nice niche alongside Blissey with really powerful wishes. Definitely a solid UU, in my opinion.

Yes that is fair,but I was just saying if the mods wanted us to discus tiering at this time, they'd make a thread for it.

And who know's with klefki? It'll probably be OU, but I've seen usage and analysis all over the board with him, and I don't think we can call OU until we see how he does in pokebank OU

And while forges is the least likely on the list, I still think it has a shot with its amazing SpD and how easy it is to support. I can see it being either OU or UU as while more aggressive av special absorbing tanks are out there, this guy can distinguish itself by shaking off status no prob and supporting itself in offensive and defensive ways

You forgot Sylveon who functions like Florges but with a little less Special Defense and more HP. Really they're both OU worthy, which one you run will probably come down to preference.

And the reason why I think Florges has a better shot at OU is that while sylveon can can special wall and wish pass, I see it more falling into an umbreon role than a vaporeon/espeon role with the latter two having access to rain support and magic bounce to help them break the threshold while umbreon-still a great Pokemon-can only support in the next tier down (but I could be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time)

 

[6feetunder]

Everybody else I think will be phased out once pokebank hits. Several will see usage, but IMO, these 7 are the only ones who might get tiered as OU. I open myself to y'all's discussion, criticism, argument, likes, name calling, bad mouthing, scorning, and of course, neglecting!

This makes no sense. So you're saying the entire OU tier will only have 7 pokemon in it?

EDIT: Ah, I see. I misunderstood your post. Never mind.

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

This makes no sense. So you're saying the entire OU tier will only have 7 pokemon in it?

No, the only 7 from gen 6 that will be tiered as OU. There will will still be previous gen Pokemon, but this thread is about new Pokemon and which might get tiered in OU, isn't it?

 

[ness64]

you wouldn't last two turns to get that leaf blade off unless stone edge misses

That's actually true. But let's just say that Leavanny is the only Sticky Webber that can take care of Tyranitar if your opponent's luck with Stone Miss is bad. :)

 

[6feetunder]

You forgot Sylveon who functions like Florges but with a little less Special Defense and more HP. Really they're both OU worthy, which one you run will probably come down to preference.

And the reason why I think Florges has a better shot at OU is that while sylveon can can special wall and wish pass, I see it more falling into an umbreon role than a vaporeon/espeon role with the latter two having access to rain support and magic bounce to help them break the threshold while umbreon-still a great Pokemon-can only support in the next tier down (but I could be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time)

The only thing Florges has over Sylveon atm is aromatherapy, a niche that will disappear when Pokemon Bank is released. Sylveon has better physical bulk, passes bigger wishes, and (post-Pokebank) has a stronger STAB in pixilate hyper voice (which goes through subs!). So unless Florges gets something really good from a future move tutor or an event, I can't see any reason to use it over Sylveon, therefore, it will most likely end up UU.

 

[Richitt]

I'm really liking noivern now.
Using a life orb set with frisk and taunt as a lead, with a timid nature + max spd/spatk evs, with boomburst/flamethrower/dracometeor/taunt. Boom is mainly for sub sets and late-game clean up, while the other two moves give it a more immediate impact/coverage.

 

[FurryGah]

Noivern is solid UU, imo. It doesn't really pack enough of a punch to fit into OU. Sure, it has access to high power moves like Boomburst, Draco Meteor, and Hurricane, and yes it's fast, but it's also forced to run a Life Orb or Choice Specs in order to increase its damage output. It can run a wallbreaker set with Super Fang, but lets be honest, when conpared to the OU dragons like Garchomp, Salamence, Dragonite, and Hydreigon, the only thing it has going for it is its high base speed. Definitely solid mid-top UU. Borderline at best.

 

[Richitt]

Noivern is solid UU, imo. It doesn't really pack enough of a punch to fit into OU. Sure, it has access to high power moves like Boomburst, Draco Meteor, and Hurricane, and yes it's fast, but it's also forced to run a Life Orb or Choice Specs in order to increase its damage output. It can run a wallbreaker set with Super Fang, but lets be honest, when conpared to the OU dragons like Garchomp, Salamence, Dragonite, and Hydreigon, the only thing it has going for it is its high base speed. Definitely solid mid-top UU. Borderline at best.

The main attraction for me is it's revenge killing potential on those listed dragons. It's basically a dragon'd crobat with slightly less speed.

Though I have to agree on the lack of power - it really needs an orb/specs to really push through damage.

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

The only thing Florges has over Sylveon atm is aromatherapy, a niche that will disappear when Pokemon Bank is released. Sylveon has better physical bulk, passes bigger wishes, and (post-Pokebank) has a stronger STAB in pixilate hyper voice (which goes through subs!). So unless Florges gets something really good from a future move tutor or an event, I can't see any reason to use it over Sylveon, therefore, it will most likely end up UU.

I'm not trying to diss sylveon, but his physical bulk is still not great, his wish passing is great, but his wish passing ability and special tanking IMO aren't enough to warrant an OU spot (that O does stand for opinion, but it's based on how wish passing has never been a good enough niche to get OU by itself, and sylveon hasn't measured up walling/tanking when I've tested him). Florges meanwhile can focus better than sylveon with higher SpD, better at taking support like wish or grassy terrain, and can support the team in other ways (grassy terrain + sunny day makes great support for venusaur or tangrowth)

I don't know what this meta game will look like six months from now, but if only one can make OU, my money's on Florges

 

[MagicMissingno]

I'm not trying to diss sylveon, but his physical bulk is still not great, his wish passing is great, but his wish passing ability and special tanking IMO aren't enough to warrant an OU spot (that O does stand for opinion, but it's based on how wish passing has never been a good enough niche to get OU by itself, and sylveon hasn't measured up walling/tanking when I've tested him). Florges meanwhile can focus better than sylveon with higher SpD, better at taking support like wish or grassy terrain, and can support the team in other ways (grassy terrain + sunny day makes great support for venusaur or tangrowth)

I don't know what this meta game will look like six months from now, but if only one can make OU, my money's on Florges

252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 248-294 (74.9 - 88.8%)
252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Florges: 212-252 (71.3 - 84.8%)

252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sylveon: 186-222 (47.2 - 56.3%)
252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Florges: 164-194 (45.5 - 53.8%)

Uh.....looks like the bulk is about the same. Yeah I know the EV spreads aren't what will be used, but takeing barely less damage per investment doesn't make something a better tank than the other. I say either both are OU or both are UU.

 

[Super Mario Bro]

Arguing whether Sylveon or Florges is the better poke is like asking which identical twin is more attractive; they are so similar that the differences between the two of them aren't worth debating. Though, Sylveon does get Pixilated Hyper Voice, which is nice. For that reason alone, Sylveon probably edges out Florges.

I would personally rather use Unaware Clefable as my token Fairy tank before either of them, though, as it's a useful counter to a chunk of set-up sweepers. Not to mention, I find the need for a special wall to be diminished this gen, due to the fact that the dominant attackers are primarily physical now.

Still pissed at Gamefreak that Florges isn't part Grass-type. Argh.

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

both are OU or both are UU.

Yeah, you're probably right. But if they're both in the same tier, sylveon will see more usage with its better offenses, despite Florges not being beaten by toxic and passive damage. I guess we'll see when pixilate hyper voice is released which is more popular

As for the notice noivern discussion, while I think he's strong enough for OU, I think he might get booted by crobat who will be much more popular and he might end up UU just for that. He's a great revenge killer for popular dragons, but that might not be enough

 

[Shroomisaur]

Still pissed at Gamefreak that Florges isn't part Grass-type. Argh.

This. I think this was the biggest Trollfreak move of the 6th generation. All those Grass moves and no Grass typing? Not to mention, it would have had many interesting possibilities to set it apart from other Fairies if it were Grass/Fairy, with Flower Veil, Grassy Terrain and such.

The main issue I have with all of the Fairy-types is that they're all incredibly similar in movesets and stats. Why Gamefreak decided that nearly every pure Fairy-type needed to be a specially-defensive cleric is beyond me, because it makes their roles overlap. That's the main reason I can't see Florges or Sylveon in OU, because they are so similar they will dilute each other's usage. What I mean by that is if they were counted as a single Pokemon, they would be OU, but since they divide the "Fairy-type cleric" role between them, both of them will miss the usage cutoff. Not to mention I generally prefer Clefable over them anyway, which again dilutes usage. This is also the reason why I posted that Aromatisse has a good shot at NU in the NU speculation thread. The same thing will probably happen with the different Gourgeist forms.

For Fairy-types, honestly I only see Azumarill and likely Togekiss making OU, but Klefki has a chance (you really can't go by those ancient October usage stats, Klefki and Greninja have fallen off since then). Mawile will make OU on the merit of its Mega, of course.

I'm really curious where Goodra will wind up in a few months. It will probably be right on the edge of the usage cutoff.

 

[Lord Ninjax]

Here's my OU candidates for Gen 6:
Aegislash: Top Poke all round. Excellent typing, a STAB Shadow Sneak, Ability to boost Atk and defense on a move, etc. Only problem is it really has just 1 set.
Greninja: Greninja has a great moveset, plus a great speed and workable Sp Atk. Protean is what elevates it to OU status, as it gives it perma-STAB, and allows it to avoid the SE boost on certain moves.
Zygarde: A bulkier Garchomp with less Atk and Speed. However, it gets two moves that Garchomp only dreams of: Drag Dance and Extremespeed. Priority is a must in this metagame while Drag dance is one of the best boosting moves in the game.
Talonflame: For starters, don't get me started on Stealth Rock. Thats Talonflame's one flaw. 126 base speed, Priority on Brave Bird and Acrobatics, (plus on Defog for what its worth). Okay 81 Atk sucks but it still scars a lot of things and can run support as well.
Dragalgae: Every Gen 6 Drag has a fair chance at OU, so I picked Zygarde (The positive choice), and Dragalgae. Hidden ability: Adaptibility, which means Drace Meteor go boom. Plus, STAB Sludge bomb, and Hydro Pump give it a fair amount of SE coverage, especially on the new Fairies. Thats really Dragalgae's niche, a Drag that kills Fairies.
Florges/Sylveon: It was a toss up. One or both of these shall make OU, so I'll do them both together. Both are top Special Tanks, but Florges is better. Sylveon has a bruising Sp Atk of 110, plus Pixiliated Hyper Voice and Moonblast for Damage. It can also Pass Wishes, CMs, and Subs. Florges on the other hand is more support oriented, with Aromatherapy, Toxic, Recover. However it beats out Sylveon for stats, while Sylveon has a better movepool and Speed.

Tell me what you think of my predicts Please

 

[Sylphnir]

Florges on the other hand is more support oriented, with Aromatherapy, Toxic, Recover. However it beats out Sylveon for stats, while Sylveon has a better movepool and Speed.

Nitpick but Sylveon is slower than Florges. It has acces to Toxic and Heal Bell (GenIV) though.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

Aegislash has only 1 set? lolusrs
It's versatile enough thanks to his 150 offenses meaning that you can't just simply switch in something like hippowdon and expect to win, because you still run the risk of eating a shadow ball. SD/KS is as equally viable as mixed.

 

[Colonial]

Here's my OU candidates for Gen 6:
Aegislash: Top Poke all round. Excellent typing, a STAB Shadow Sneak, Ability to boost Atk and defense on a move, etc. Only problem is it really has just 1 set.

I would say that Aegis has much more then one set. Maybe that one set is all that people use, but it's far from the only viable one. I've been using Autotomize and Special variants of Aegis with some success, though I admit some of that success came from the surprise factor.

 

[Leica]

Half the reason Aegislash is so good is because of how different the sets it can run are.

 

[Mudkip727]

Talonflame is a definite OU. With banded bravebird+uturn combo can put even rotom in a dent. It can use fortress,ferro,scizor as setup fodder and eliminate everything!!

 

[Monte Cristo]

Mandibuzz got some noticable buffs this gen. Overcoat now also blocks the common sleep powder/spore, Mandibuzz also gets defog which got a great buff and its typing+defensive stats still hold up really well. Her base speed is also pretty nice and Mandibuzz has a handful of moves it can use like foul play, taunt, roost, knock off and nasty plot. I definitely think Mandibuzz will do really well in 6th gen OU.

This thread IS for new gen mons, so that note should probably go in the oldmon buffs thread.

Anyways, I completely agree with shroomisaur, they will indeed dilute each others usage. But I really don't get why zygarde will be OU, lum berry +1 zygarde barely outpowers stuff like unboosted LO chomp or garchompite mega chomp, it's so weak, all it has is bulk, and the bulky ground role has been so overdone (wallchomp,landorus-t,hippowdon,gliscor) it isn't even funny, one huge thing sepprating it from having nearly as much utility as them is lack of SR, which pretty much everything but wall gliscor runs. Zygarde is also slow and like I said, weak, seperating him from the all around strong,bulky, and fast wallchomp who just doesn't sit there and get set up on

 

[Kyreth]

SD is a bad idea because you are OHKOed by Stone Edge+weather.

At least Leavanny can actually touch Tyranitar though. No other Sticky Web user can. Which is quite a problem when trying to use it effectively.

Leavanny gets Overcoat as it's Hidden Ability. You're immune to Sandstorm damage, get dropped to 1HP by Stone Edge, then proceed to hit back with +2 Leaf Blade if it's not Scarfed. If he outspeeds you on the SD, you know it's Scarfed and you switch out knowing he's just gonna Edge again for the KO to something that can take the hit. If it got U-turn, it'd be awesome- but Leavanny at +2 is more than enough to slap Tyranitar's shit. (Edit add: And you can Baton Pass a +2 ATK boost after you Web to boot.) Case in point, Choice Band Tyranitar vs. Leavanny. Guaranteed 2HKO even without the dance, but with it:


252 Atk Leavanny Leaf Blade vs. 180 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 122-146 (61.6 - 73.7%)

+2 252 Atk Leavanny Leaf Blade vs. 180 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 242-288 (122.2 - 145.4%)

 

[NotSoClutch]

This thread IS for new gen mons, so that note should probably go in the oldmon buffs thread.

Anyways, I completely agree with shroomisaur, they will indeed dilute each others usage. But I really don't get why zygarde will be OU, lum berry +1 zygarde barely outpowers stuff like unboosted LO chomp or garchompite mega chomp, it's so weak, all it has is bulk, and the bulky ground role has been so overdone (wallchomp,landorus-t,hippowdon,gliscor) it isn't even funny, one huge thing sepprating it from having nearly as much utility as them is lack of SR, which pretty much everything but wall gliscor runs. Zygarde is also slow and like I said, weak, seperating him from the all around strong,bulky, and fast wallchomp who just doesn't sit there and get set up on

What you failed to mention is his access to glare, espeed, coil, and dd that completely seperate zygarde from that group of completely different beasts.