Hello, I'm looking for some help/critique of this team. I'm a long-time casual gen4 player (15+ years) but have never done any of my own team building despite peaking 1600+ several times with other peoples' teams. I've been playing BKC's water spam and LifeOnEnceladus's kingdra HO to some success and wanted to try building a bulky team, as I think the HO gameplan is preventing me from honing some aspects of my play.
I have ended up with a roster of 5 bulky 'mons with almost no atk/SpA investment, which all still hit pretty hard as they each have at least 120 base power in their respective attack stat (hence the team's name). The team feels pretty versatile and robust, but I have begun to identify a couple of flaws which I'll discuss later.
:Breloom:
I started off with the shroom. Yes, he is weaker now that spore is banned, but I noticed a lot of teams seem to have written him off. He still has great typing and hits pretty hard. I wanted to try to make him work.
:Breloom::Donphan:
I wanted a spinner and he appreciates Breloom's water/grass resistances. Knock off spam seemed like it would be good to have.
:Breloom::Donphan::Heatran:
With 'phan serving as a bulky physical mon, the next logical step is something to catch beefy special attacks like Draco Meteor/Fire Blast. I went with Heatran, which also gives me a good place to stick rocks. For now, he is the best lead candidate.
:Heatran::Breloom::Donphan::Latias:
Latias is always good, right? At this point, I was pretty vulnerable to fighting moves. I also wanted the dragon typing to absorb fire/water, which I was still a little uncomfortably weak to as most fire attackers have coverage for Heatran. I was still brainstorming at this stage, considering a defensive reflect set so that a core piece of the team doesn't get dismantled by the omnipresent TTar.
:Heatran::Breloom::Donphan::Latias::Scizor:
A secondary steel seemed prudent and his fire weakness is somewhat covered by Heatran. Of course, the priority is always nice on such a sluggish team.
:Heatran::Breloom::Donphan::Latias::Scizor::Rotom-Wash:
I'm now missing a spin blocker and also need some speed control. Nothing to see here, scarf Rotom is a staple.
:Heatran::Breloom::Donphan::Zapdos::Scizor::Rotom-Wash:
Here, I was looking pretty robust against stealth rocks and somewhat weak to Ttar. Yes, I have 'loom, but loom isn't the bulkiest and many Ttars run ice beam/fire blast, to say nothing of superpowers. I made the decision to swap Latias for Zapdos. This increases my vulnerability to stone edge, but honestly most Ttars don't seem to run it, and it isn't exactly a safe move to lock into with Scizor, Heatran and Donphan waiting in the back. Pressure is underrated, making it really easy to stall out those common 8-PP moves that so many mons rely on for stall breaking as well as recover/roost/softboiled/wish against other teams with longevity.
I decided to move Zapdos to the lead slot, as my bulky Heatran seemed to get scared out more often than not, making the final product:
:Zapdos::Heatran::Breloom::Donphan::Scizor::Rotom-Wash:
:Zapdos:
Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 228 Def / 32 Spe
Bold Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Roost
- U-turn / Heat Wave / Toxic
Lead Zapdos. At times I wish U-turn was Heat Wave or Toxic, but it just seems like the best move for a lead slot 'mon. I'm open to replacing it; this team isn't exactly built to keep rocks off so it does sometimes feel like it has 25% recoil. I considered making him specially bulky, as sometimes my best option for a water attacker like a specs Starmie seems to be trading Zapdos for it. It can feel bad to trade versus e.g. lead Empoleon, but at the same time that's also quite the problematic mon for the team to deal with, so I take it.
:Heatran:
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Taunt / Roar
- Protect
- Stealth Rock
I really wasn't too sure what to do with this set. SR is obvious. I wanted Protect mainly for the leftovers recovery, although it is very nice against opposing choice mons that many teams seem to use as their Heatran checks. I originally had Fire Blast/Earth Power, but with this teams chip-based gameplan Lava Plume/Taunt seemed better versus opposing stall/semi-stall. My life is often a lot easier if I can burn a bulky 'mon on the switch, and it's usually not too hard to force that dice roll a few times. It's still plenty powerful for something like a Skarmory. I don't have a good reason for Taunt over Roar; mainly it's just to hamper bulky waters like a Vaporeon. Roar might be better for keeping something like a Gyarados from setting up freely or from an opposing Heatran sitting on the set too hard.
:Breloom:
Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 Spe
Impish Nature
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Force Palm
- Seed Bomb
This set is open for debate. I wanted Leech Seed/Protect for the annoyance factor and massive passive healing. LS also often functions as pseudo-wish which can be huge with my other bulky Protect users. Knock Off and Trick resistance is much appreciated, particularly since Breloom is good against the common Knock Off users.
Seed Bomb is default for coverage, leaving Force Palm as the elephant in the room. This team is light on status moves, so it finds a lot of unstatused 'mons to roll the 30% on. Sometimes I miss Superpower, but I don't like being forced out and am not really relying on Loom for wallbreaking. It's particularly counterproductive with this Breloom's physical bulk. I considered Bulk Up/SD sets, but this one certainly feels like it hampers my opponent's gameplan.
:Donphan:
Donphan @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake / Payback / Assurance
- Protect
Ah, Donphan. There isn't much to say here. Keeping rocks off is great but I don't play like it's mandatory. Protect is great when so many teams rely on chipping Donphan down. Payback/Assurance are options for nailing Rotom/Gengar on the switch, but it's so much weaker than EQ against so many other 'mons and the ghosts don't exactly love getting knocked off either.
:Scizor:
Scizor @ Leftovers / Occa Berry
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 56 Atk / 204 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Roost
- Swords Dance
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
I wanted an option for last-pokemon sweep potential against stall. This guy can comfortably swap in and pivot out early game while converting losses against stall into wins if they're relying on whirlwind to deal with a sweeper like this. I am running Leftovers, but it has the downside of revealing the set versus a savvy opponent. Occa Berry could be nice to feign choice scarf, although I think it's still not the best as running a calc will reveal the lack of attack investment, anyway.
:Rotom-Wash:
Rotom-Wash @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice] / Hydro Pump
- Shadow Ball
- Trick
A standard set, not much to say. I am running HP ice to deal with Dragonite, mainly. I don't feel the need to pack HP to hit TTar as it doesn't do that much anyway. I don't bring this guy out (nor leave him in) unless I really have to, so often Ttar is dead or weak enough to die to two Tbolts.
Onto the known weaknesses:
edit: Here is a version I think is a bit improved. I will write more as I converge, but for now: Donphan -> defensive curve Quagsire to mitigate water weakness, zapdos defensive -> specially defensive wall mixed nite and non-physical Infernape (which is walled by Quag). I think I can get away with no spinner. Scizor also got superpower instead of u-turn for hitting Clefable and Heatran (plus EVs from special defense to attack as I don't tend to use it as a special wall anyway).
I have ended up with a roster of 5 bulky 'mons with almost no atk/SpA investment, which all still hit pretty hard as they each have at least 120 base power in their respective attack stat (hence the team's name). The team feels pretty versatile and robust, but I have begun to identify a couple of flaws which I'll discuss later.
:Breloom:
I started off with the shroom. Yes, he is weaker now that spore is banned, but I noticed a lot of teams seem to have written him off. He still has great typing and hits pretty hard. I wanted to try to make him work.
:Breloom::Donphan:
I wanted a spinner and he appreciates Breloom's water/grass resistances. Knock off spam seemed like it would be good to have.
:Breloom::Donphan::Heatran:
With 'phan serving as a bulky physical mon, the next logical step is something to catch beefy special attacks like Draco Meteor/Fire Blast. I went with Heatran, which also gives me a good place to stick rocks. For now, he is the best lead candidate.
:Heatran::Breloom::Donphan::Latias:
Latias is always good, right? At this point, I was pretty vulnerable to fighting moves. I also wanted the dragon typing to absorb fire/water, which I was still a little uncomfortably weak to as most fire attackers have coverage for Heatran. I was still brainstorming at this stage, considering a defensive reflect set so that a core piece of the team doesn't get dismantled by the omnipresent TTar.
:Heatran::Breloom::Donphan::Latias::Scizor:
A secondary steel seemed prudent and his fire weakness is somewhat covered by Heatran. Of course, the priority is always nice on such a sluggish team.
:Heatran::Breloom::Donphan::Latias::Scizor::Rotom-Wash:
I'm now missing a spin blocker and also need some speed control. Nothing to see here, scarf Rotom is a staple.
:Heatran::Breloom::Donphan::Zapdos::Scizor::Rotom-Wash:
Here, I was looking pretty robust against stealth rocks and somewhat weak to Ttar. Yes, I have 'loom, but loom isn't the bulkiest and many Ttars run ice beam/fire blast, to say nothing of superpowers. I made the decision to swap Latias for Zapdos. This increases my vulnerability to stone edge, but honestly most Ttars don't seem to run it, and it isn't exactly a safe move to lock into with Scizor, Heatran and Donphan waiting in the back. Pressure is underrated, making it really easy to stall out those common 8-PP moves that so many mons rely on for stall breaking as well as recover/roost/softboiled/wish against other teams with longevity.
I decided to move Zapdos to the lead slot, as my bulky Heatran seemed to get scared out more often than not, making the final product:
:Zapdos::Heatran::Breloom::Donphan::Scizor::Rotom-Wash:
:Zapdos:
Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 228 Def / 32 Spe
Bold Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Roost
- U-turn / Heat Wave / Toxic
Lead Zapdos. At times I wish U-turn was Heat Wave or Toxic, but it just seems like the best move for a lead slot 'mon. I'm open to replacing it; this team isn't exactly built to keep rocks off so it does sometimes feel like it has 25% recoil. I considered making him specially bulky, as sometimes my best option for a water attacker like a specs Starmie seems to be trading Zapdos for it. It can feel bad to trade versus e.g. lead Empoleon, but at the same time that's also quite the problematic mon for the team to deal with, so I take it.
:Heatran:
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Taunt / Roar
- Protect
- Stealth Rock
I really wasn't too sure what to do with this set. SR is obvious. I wanted Protect mainly for the leftovers recovery, although it is very nice against opposing choice mons that many teams seem to use as their Heatran checks. I originally had Fire Blast/Earth Power, but with this teams chip-based gameplan Lava Plume/Taunt seemed better versus opposing stall/semi-stall. My life is often a lot easier if I can burn a bulky 'mon on the switch, and it's usually not too hard to force that dice roll a few times. It's still plenty powerful for something like a Skarmory. I don't have a good reason for Taunt over Roar; mainly it's just to hamper bulky waters like a Vaporeon. Roar might be better for keeping something like a Gyarados from setting up freely or from an opposing Heatran sitting on the set too hard.
:Breloom:
Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 Spe
Impish Nature
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Force Palm
- Seed Bomb
This set is open for debate. I wanted Leech Seed/Protect for the annoyance factor and massive passive healing. LS also often functions as pseudo-wish which can be huge with my other bulky Protect users. Knock Off and Trick resistance is much appreciated, particularly since Breloom is good against the common Knock Off users.
Seed Bomb is default for coverage, leaving Force Palm as the elephant in the room. This team is light on status moves, so it finds a lot of unstatused 'mons to roll the 30% on. Sometimes I miss Superpower, but I don't like being forced out and am not really relying on Loom for wallbreaking. It's particularly counterproductive with this Breloom's physical bulk. I considered Bulk Up/SD sets, but this one certainly feels like it hampers my opponent's gameplan.
:Donphan:
Donphan @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake / Payback / Assurance
- Protect
Ah, Donphan. There isn't much to say here. Keeping rocks off is great but I don't play like it's mandatory. Protect is great when so many teams rely on chipping Donphan down. Payback/Assurance are options for nailing Rotom/Gengar on the switch, but it's so much weaker than EQ against so many other 'mons and the ghosts don't exactly love getting knocked off either.
:Scizor:
Scizor @ Leftovers / Occa Berry
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 56 Atk / 204 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Roost
- Swords Dance
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
I wanted an option for last-pokemon sweep potential against stall. This guy can comfortably swap in and pivot out early game while converting losses against stall into wins if they're relying on whirlwind to deal with a sweeper like this. I am running Leftovers, but it has the downside of revealing the set versus a savvy opponent. Occa Berry could be nice to feign choice scarf, although I think it's still not the best as running a calc will reveal the lack of attack investment, anyway.
:Rotom-Wash:
Rotom-Wash @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice] / Hydro Pump
- Shadow Ball
- Trick
A standard set, not much to say. I am running HP ice to deal with Dragonite, mainly. I don't feel the need to pack HP to hit TTar as it doesn't do that much anyway. I don't bring this guy out (nor leave him in) unless I really have to, so often Ttar is dead or weak enough to die to two Tbolts.
Onto the known weaknesses:
- The binary nature of most of these Pokemons' EV spreads makes me pretty weak to mixed wallbreakers like Infernape or Dragonite, the latter of which easily comes in on Breloom/Heatran. They don't have much longevity so there's pretty much always a way to switch around and take them out with Rotom/Scizor, but it puts the team in an uncomfortable position. A healthy Zapdos can usually check them, but that's a lot of weight on the thunder bird's shoulders.
- Water attackers with ice coverage (unfortunately common) are problematic. I've got the electric attackers (+ loom) but it puts me in an uncomfortable position with predictions if they get in on the right mon. My secondary special wall being Scizor doesn't help too much as he can't hit them back very hard in many cases.
- Bulky set-up mons like CM clefable/latias. I don't have a phazer (Heatran?) so I really have to hope that I can status hax and/or trick them. I don't think I've faced a CM Suicune yet, but I have a feeling it wouldn't be pretty.
- Stall. This teams low-ish offensive power and lack of set-up puts me relying on a late game scizor sweep and/or stalling out problematic mons like bulky clefable with Zapdos. Trick helps, but I've only got one of those.
edit: Here is a version I think is a bit improved. I will write more as I converge, but for now: Donphan -> defensive curve Quagsire to mitigate water weakness, zapdos defensive -> specially defensive wall mixed nite and non-physical Infernape (which is walled by Quag). I think I can get away with no spinner. Scizor also got superpower instead of u-turn for hitting Clefable and Heatran (plus EVs from special defense to attack as I don't tend to use it as a special wall anyway).
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