A Pretty Decent Team

[Bam]

This is kind of an offshoot of another team I posted here earlier, but I've found that it's a huge improvement and actually does well in today's metagame. I attribute that due to the fact that I've actually used this team before, whereas all my previous RMTs have been purely theorymon and speculation (I just got Shoddy to work), so I feel that this is one of my better creations yet, and hopefully I'll get a bit more feedback addressing the few problems I have with it.

The general idea of the team is to soften up my opponent and then sweep, which hasn't been that difficult for me. Five out of the six Pokemon can be considered offensive threats, and I've found that it fits quite nicely in with the "bulky sweeper" metagame we have nowadays (strangely, though, I haven't seen that many "bulky sweeper" teams, most are still purely offensive or purely defensive, but I digress...). I will now begin :D

Changes will be in Italic ;).

Porygon2 @ Leftovers
Modest, Trace
240 HP / 164 Def / 100 SpD / 4 Spe
- Ice Beam
- Charge Beam
- Magic Coat
- Recover

What it does: As stated in my previous RMT, Pory2 is an amazing lead. Fortunately (or maybe unfortunately), a decent portion of Smogon's Shoddy server consists of battlers who really have no idea what Porygon2 can do, and since most of my opponent's leads are either 4x weak to one of my attacks (Gyarados or Salamence) or are a sleeper lead (Bronzong or Yanmega), I am able to OHKO or sleep them with Magic Coat repspectively.

I originally used Discharge over Charge Beam, but due to troubles with Blissey once Jirachi was down (and the fact that I don't run any SpAtk EVs), I replaced it, favoring that 63% chance of boosting my SpA to a respectable level. What's really fun is when I Trace Yanmega's Speed Boost, sleep it, and then get +6 Atk on my opponent's Blissey. GG :D. As for the 4 Spe EVs..well, I hate speed ties =\.

How it aids my goal: Pory2 lets me status my opponent and counters some of the most common threats (Heatran and Gyarados), all the while being able to set up a sweep against an unsuspecting opponent. It's also easily able to switch into those Pokemon that just sit there and do nothing (Cressy/Bronzong) and frighten them off with a couple of Charge Beams.

lol:

Rules: Ladder Match, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Species Clause, Strict Damage Clause
Opponent sent out Gengar (lvl 100 Gengar ♂).
Bam sent out DigiDuck (lvl 100 Porygon2).
DigiDuck traced Gengar's Levitate!
DigiDuck used Magic Coat.
DigiDuck created a barrier!
Gengar used Perish Song.
Both Pokemon will faint in 3 turn(s)
But it failed!
Gengar's perish count fell to 3!

DigiDuck used Magic Coat.
DigiDuck created a barrier!
Gengar used Mean Look.
Gengar was trapped!
Gengar's perish count fell to 2!

Bam: lol haha
Opponent: AAHHH what the hell
DigiDuck used Magic Coat.
DigiDuck created a barrier!
Gengar used Hypnosis.
Gengar's attack missed!
Gengar's perish count fell to 1!

DigiDuck used Magic Coat.
DigiDuck created a barrier!
Gengar used Shadow Ball.
It doesn't affect DigiDuck...
Gengar's perish count fell to 0!
Opponent's Gengar fainted.

Opponent switched in Garchomp (lvl 100 Garchomp ♂).
DigiDuck makes ground moves miss with Levitate!
Garchomp used Earthquake.
Garchomp's attack missed!
DigiDuck used Ice Beam.
It's super effective!
Garchomp lost 100% of its health.
Opponent's Garchomp fainted.

Heatran @ Life Orb
Modest, Flash Fire
252 HP / 96 Def / 80 SpA / 76 SpD / 4 Spe
- Lava Plume
- Earth Power
- Sleep Talk
- Rest

What it does: ResTalk Heatran is one of the coolest Pokemon I've ever used. If effectively counters Jirachi, other Heatran, Outraging Garchomp, choice-Gengar, and keeps counters like Tyranitar and Gyarados wary from switching in due to the everpresent 1-in-3 chance of being burnt. Although it's never happened to me, I've read that this can beat Blissey 1-on-1, and I believe it. It doesn't really take more than 30% from any non-boosted special attack, and can dish out a lot more damage than it takes in the process. Life Orb boosts its own SpA to a respectable level, and all that damage I'll be taking from SR/Spikes/LO, ptthh, just Rest it off, and still pose a threat.

I am considering making this a Calm nature and giving it a bit more SpD EVs, as that would allow me to take care of Zapdos and Gengar with a lot less trouble than I currently am.

How it aids my goal: Heatran takes care of a lot of today's "bulky-sweeper" threats, and even if my opponent has a great counter, they risk having their attack halved. Overall, it has great type-synergy with the rest of the team.

Gliscor @ Leftovers
Impish, Sand Veil
252 HP / 38 Def / 220 Spe
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang
- Stealth Rock
- Roost

What it does: This hits 281 Spe, and I can count on two hands the amount of times Lucario have stayed in to HP Ice me, only to eat the dust when I beat them to the punch with Earthquake. Aside from that, it outspeeds all non-scarfed Heatran and Magnezone, and OHKOs with Earthquake as well. Ice Fang provides decent coverage but doesn't really do that much damage to anything (especially since most Chomps have Yache nowadays), but that's ok with me; as long as it gets rid of the Yache Berry, Deoxys-S can come in and revenge kill. That actually works pretty well, because unless they Outrage, I can KO them before they do me in, and if they do, Deo-S screws them over anyways. It's like the circle of...death.

Stealth Rock and Roost are pretty obvious, so I won't really discuss them.

How it aids my goal: Gliscor is a great switch-in for Heracross, the dragons (once I identify whether they're physical or special), Gallade, and most other physical attackers. Sadly, though, it usually dies most games, but through that it allows me to set up a sweep/stop my opponent from sweeping.

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Adamant, Intimidate
216 HP / 16 Atk / 176 Def / 100 Spe
- Waterfall
- Stone Edge
- Taunt
- Dragon Dance

What it does: Yes, I run BulkyGyara, and I'm proud of it. I've actually found that this fits my team much better than the all-out attack Gyara, even though it doesn't do quite as much damage off the bat. I originally used Earthquake over Stone Edge, but the only times I found it useful were when..uh, it was actually never that useful for me. Stone Edge helps me scare away other Gyarados, allows me to beat out Celebi (with prediction, but it's possible), and the high-crit rate is always nice.

How it aids my goal: Taunt has proven immensely useful in shutting down Bronzong, Suicune (especially Suicune), and other slower stat-boosters or statusers. Oftentimes I Taunt on my opponent's switch rather than DD or attack, just to shut down their counter. Gyara helps my team a great deal in dealing with Infernape, Heatran, Weavile, and Mamoswine, as well as just switching in to pass out an Intimidate here or there. Aside from that, it can threaten to DD up and sweep, which has happened on numerous occassions.

Deoxys-S @ Expert Belt
Hasty, Pressure
64 Atk / 168 SpA / 252 Spe
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Superpower

What it does: I tried the usuall mixed-attacker version of this, but in the end it just didn't cut it because I'd often find myself in a position where either Gyarados or Gengar/Azelf was about to endgame sweep me, and I always had the wrong move at the wrong time (Thunderbolt vs. Shadow Ball). I then switched to Timid, but along with that I maxed its Speed, just so I could beat out and OHKO most other Deoxys that zap about Shoddy. It's pretty self-explanatory to anybody who's ever faced one of these - it OHKOs almost anything once said anything has been weakened a little bit, and outspeed everything in the process.

Well, I've changed back to the mixed set because I have a pretty big DDTar weakness and Superpower can finish one off after its sub is gone (if it even subbed up). Thunderbolt is being used over Shadow Ball because Psychic hits Gengar, and that's all I really need to worry about.

Change #2: I've changed Life Orb to Expert Belt and gave it some more Atk EVs (it does exactly 100% min to 252 HP Garchomp with Superpower), because I've been having problems with it dying too early due to Life Orb recoil.

How it aids my goal: This guy is an amazing revenge killer, one-shotting Gyarados, Garchomp (the dragons in general), Gengar, Heracross, Azelf, Deoxys-S, etc. etc. etc. Even if I'm not revenge-killing, it still does a decent amount of damage with any of its Life Orb-boosted attacks.

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Timid, Serene Grace
252 HP / 104 SpA / 152 Spe
- Psychic
- Water Pulse
- Calm Mind
- Substitute

What it does: Man, this thing is amazing. It's one of the best sweepers I've ever used, in-game or not. As a plus, it draws out Garchomp like no other, allowing me to confuse it and get the early KO.

I originally used HP Fighting, but considering that I was going to eventually transfer this team over to WiFi, I checked out my other options. Thunderbolt just didn't seem to cut it, so I started eyeing Water Pulse. I tried it, and immediately fell in love. Your opponent basically has a one-in-two chance of being confused, and they'll often switch to get rid of the status, allowing you to CM or sub up once more (it also still hits Tyranitar super-effectively, which helps a bit as it switches in a lot). If they do stay in, you'll eventually get a sub when they hit themselves, allowing you to attack again or just continue CMing up. Pyschic is good for just general STAB.

How it aids my goal: Overall, this guy is my goal. I can switch him in on almost anything without Earthquake or Fire Blast and start subbing up. It outspeeds all neutral base 100 Pokemon, and can often deal a finishing, unexpected blow with Psychic. This guy has pissed off my opponents more than any other member of my team.



Overall: So far, this team has been very effective for me. Although I'm not in the top 50 as of yet (I'm still getting used to the differences found in the Shoddy metagame), I'm steadily advancing towards there, and am at least in the top 100.

There are a few small problems I have, though. SubRoost Zapdos has been a pain in the but, but I'm usually able to work around it with Jirachi. Gengar isn't too much trouble unless it has Life Orb, but when it does, it's almost guaranteed to get a kill before I can switch Deo-S or Jirachi in to scare it away. In a similar matter, Raikou has been a problem, but Jirachi can scare that off as well. In General, it's just the fast, powerful special sweepers that pose a threat, but I'm always able to work around them. You know that your team is pretty well built when you start nitpicking individual sets that cause problems rather than one Pokemon and all of its sets, so I'm not sure if there's much that can be done to fix those issues.

Anyways, thanks for reading (and hopefully rating). I don't have time to edit in a threat-list right now, but I will do so tomorrow, and I feel that it's pretty obvious how I counter most problems. Well, off to bed now, later :D.

So I've finally got Shoddy working again (somewhat =\), and the first thing I did was to upload my original Shoddy team. If not for my crappy connection and high rate of d/cs, it would have one me nearly all of my matches (out of at least 100 before it stopped working again), and it proved to still work almost as

 

[Rag]

DD Tar with LO and Ice Beam causes a lot of trouble as it either OHKO or 2HKO everything on your team. CBGross is very capable of OHKOing everything on your team if it run its standard set, and you don't excactly have an answer to a Mixmence. :/
Milotic could fit into your team very well, seeing how it's capable of countering both Metagross and Mixmence if it's EVed correctly. Also, seeing how you don't have a sleep move in your team, Milotic is a pretty good sleep inducer. I would suggest Swampert as it's even more capable to counter Metagross, but it isn't able to switch in continuesly on Draco Meteor as it don't learn any reliable recovery moves.
Giving Deoxys-S Superpower would somewhat solve your DD-Tar problem, even through you most likely will have to sacrifice a Pokémon to send it in.

Also, 220 EVs on a Impish Gliscor would save you some EVs. You should definitely consider Aerial Ace though, as CBCross will 2HKO you as you Roost.

 

[gorm]

if you really want heatran to beat other heatran, id consider making alot quicker. i use resttalk fire blast earth power modest heatran with no special attack evs and it's still pretty potent, so with lifeorb you shouldnt be too worried with plume about sacrificing a bit of firepower. just a thought.

love the idea of confusing+hurting tar with CM jirachi, im probably gonna try that. defense might not be as important on that set but i like if for random bronzong/forry eqs 4hkoing or something (it might be 176 def but with timid, not sure)

i not sure if you're centring the team around jirachi but if you are i think a more cure way of beating blissey/tar would be suitable though, and something like resttalk machamp or even something crazy like lum sd cc shadow sneak ice punch gallade, or even sdef bulk up gallade (who iirc you've used before)

(with machamp and all the confusing id start to suggest skarm with spikes over gliscor but hera would be problematic d__d, and you already have resttalk heatran.)

 

[Pulse]

I have no idea why you're not using Superpower on Deoxys, because saying it has "bad coverage" is honestly 100% b.s. Other than that it is a good team. Porygon2 does a good job at switching into opposing Heatran, and they just let him boost his SpA with Charge Beam. Even if you can't hit too hard back, they can't really touch you either. Looks like a solid team.

 

[IronGross]

I agree with the poster above, Deoxys-S's speed is so insane it simply doesn't need max. Give it 160 Atk/98 Spe/252 SpA, and use Superpower for Blissey. Mild/Rush nature.
And why doesn't Porygon2 have any SpA EVs?
Also, Thunder's 60% paralyzis and double base power make it a superior option over Water Pulse. Wish can be used over Substitude, and Shadow Ball makes a nice option as well.

 

[Bam]

DD Tar with LO and Ice Beam causes a lot of trouble as it either OHKO or 2HKO everything on your team.

I was actually thinking about that last night, and I didn't really notice that problem until then as I originally ran U-turn on Gliscor and Superpower on Deo-S (just in case it happened to be Boah or DDTar).

I've never had any problem with CBGross on this team. The only way it's really a threat is if my opponent knew my entire team and outpredicted me 6 out of 6 times, which has never happened. I have a 4x resist to Ice and Steel (Heatran), 2 immunities to Ground, and neither Heatran or Jirachi are OHKOd by Explosion (although I only switch Heatran in on those as he can Rest it off on Blissey or something). Gliscor also outspeeds and can damage it enough before it dies that either:
a) it can't switch in on any other attacks
b) my opponent lets it get revenge killed.

I do have a small MixMence problem, but it's easily revenge-killed with Pory2/Deo-S and Stealth Rock generally kills it before it can do too much damage. Pretty much any team without Cressy doesn't have an answer to MixMence :P. However, I like the idea of using Milotic, but I have no idea of what I'd replace. Pory2 seems like the best fit, but that leaves me with no respectable counter to Gyara, and I'd much rather use Ice Beam than HP Electric on Milotic. Also, thanks for straightening out those EVs ;).

I have no idea why you're not using Superpower on Deoxys, because saying it has "bad coverage" is honestly 100% b.s.

What I meant by that was that I was continually finding myself in a spot where my opponent would have a Gyara with a DD at 50% health in the end-game, and I just couldn't cover it with Psychic, so I switched to Timid and all special so I could counter more threats. However, that problem with DDTar is really scaring me, so I'll just play Pory2 in a more restrictive way (so it doesn't die) and go with the standard set, with Thunderbolt over Shadow Ball.

Also, Thunder's 60% paralyzis and double base power make it a superior option over Water Pulse.

.7 (accuracy) * .3 (rate of Paralysis) = .21. I'd only have a 21% chance of paralyzing my opponent, rather than a 40% chance of confusing, and I'd rather have a 50% chance of my opponent hurting itself than a 25% chance of them just sitting there. It's faster than most of its counters anyways.

So I'm considering replacing a Pokemon with Milotic, but I am undecided on what. Thanks for the feedback ;).

 

[Pulse]

I agree with the poster above, Deoxys-S's speed is so insane it simply doesn't need max.

That is not what I said at all. I max speed on my own Deoxys for the insurance. Don't twist my words.

What I meant by that was that I was continually finding myself in a spot where my opponent would have a Gyara with a DD at 50% health in the end-game, and I just couldn't cover it with Psychic, so I switched to Timid and all special so I could counter more threats. However, that problem with DDTar is really scaring me, so I'll just play Pory2 in a more restrictive way (so it doesn't die) and go with the standard set, with Thunderbolt over Shadow Ball.

I run Shadow Ball / Thunderbolt / Ice Beam / Superpower. Thunderbolt and Ice Beam cover a hell of a lot for super effective, and Superpower and Shadow Ball supply the neutral type coverage. There are some occasions where I wish I had Psychic, but since you have Gliscor and Gyarados it seems like you can do OK against Machamp (who is the main reason for Psychic IMO). However, Psychic > Shadow Ball is fine as well.

I never realized the analysis had Thunderbolt / Shadow Ball; I'd say Thunderbolt and Ice Beam are the only two moves that every attacking Deoxys-S should have.

 

[Stathakis]

if you do want to max speed on deoxys, what I would do is put focus blast over superpower and max sp.attack. this team doesn't have problems with blissey, as you have sub+cm jirachi, charge beam+magic coat P2, resttalk heatran, and then 2 physical pokemon, so blissey shouldn't be a problem. but focus blast, in exchange for some shaky accuracy, allows you to max out your speed and sp.attack evs, have a nature that doesn't lower a defense, ease your prediction, as there is no -1 attack/defense if you hit the wrong guy, and hit harder, as you'll have more evs backing it than you would with superpower, and blissey has no business with this team anyways, as I said.

also, lol at the log.

 

[Pulse]

Still, Stathakis, a Life Orb D-S sweeper almost always would prefer a 100% base power 120 move > a 70% one, especially when it opens the doors for a mixed sweeper. The value of a mixed sweeper this generation is really invaluable.

 

[Stathakis]

but honestly, what is he gonna hit with superpower that he can't hit with focus blast? I mean, the accuracy is a letdown, but I only see benefits everywhere else. just about the only things that superpower will hit harder that I can think of are tyranitar, blissey, and snorlax. blissey and snorlax survive superpower as well as focus blast, and at least you can use focus blast again without doing piddly damage, and tyranitar, well okay tyranitar is getting KO'd by superpower when he can be evd to survive focus blast.

. mixed sweepers primarily are used to break defensive cores by hitting walls and tanks on their weaker defensive side. honestly, is deoxys ever going to break defensive cores? not without taunt+cosmic power+recover it's not. on the note of other mixed sweepers, I'm talking about things like mixmence, mixape, tyraniboah, etc. stuff like dd ice beam ttar is mixed by definition, but the uses of ice beam on him don't go too much further than beating his counters. he's not "sweeping" with ice beam. he's breaking defensive cores with it. he's sweeping with eg/crunch or whatever other moves he's using. and that's just an example. hp ice sdluke is using ice beam to break a wall (gliscor, in this case). fire blast dd dragonite is doing the same thing. okay, they're not "only" breaking defensive cores with their mixed moves, but that's still not the way they "sweep."

edit: I'm not saying that mixed sweepers aren't potent. you seem to be missing the point there. and as far as blissey and this team, resttalk tran can burn blissey and then stall it. subcm jirachi has 101 hp substitutes. charge beam porygon can get +6 attack and break through blissey. gyarados taunts and sets up on blissey. gliscor gets free sr on blissey as long as he's careful to roost on the ice beams. I'm discounting her as a threat because at the moment, 5/6 of his team beats blissey, which means that she's not going to be doing much to this team. that's theorymoning, but it's certainly not poor. and max speed deoxys doesn't 2HKO blissey with superpower anyways.

edit 3 (where the hell was edit 2? read the whole post): um, I already conceded that superpower is better for tyranitar than focus blast. way to beat a dead horse, or whatever the saying is.

edit 4: how is blissey going to switch into anything other than maybe gliscor, which okay, doesn't beat blissey, but honestly, the point is there. on toxic against porygon 2, magic coat means that blissey isn't safe trying to use toxic, though thunderwave is slightly less risky.

 

[Pulse]

but honestly, what is he gonna hit with superpower that he can't hit with focus blast? I mean, the accuracy is a letdown, but I only see benefits everywhere else. just about the only things that superpower will hit harder that I can think of are tyranitar, blissey, and snorlax. blissey and snorlax survive superpower as well as focus blast, and at least you can use focus blast again without doing piddly damage, and tyranitar, well okay tyranitar is getting KO'd by superpower when he can be evd to survive focus blast.

Well Tyranitar has a pretty high chance of survival. The standard 252 HP Tyranitars all take an average of less than 100%, and when you factor in the 70 accuracy the chance of a OHKO is about 31%, since it only has a 43% chance without the accuracy problems. And for the Blissey / Snorlax argument, at least Blissey is 2HKO'd by Superpower.

I disagree with what you say about mixed sweepers. mixed sweepers are used to break defensive cores by hitting walls and tanks on their weaker defensive side. honestly, is deoxys ever going to break defensive cores? not without taunt+cosmic power+recover it's not.

Umm mixed sweepers are extremely potent in today's Metagame, even with just one move that doesn't conform to the other three. Blizzard on Mamoswine, Superpower on Deoxys, Close Combat on Infernape, Fire Blast on DD Dragonite, Ice Beam on DD Tyranitar... the list continues. All of these Pokémon are incredible sweepers, and the one "other" move allows them to sweep thanks to a surprise KO on an unsuspecting "counter". Saying that mixed sweepers are only meant to break defensive cores is an extremely inaccurate statement. Why would we even call them mixed sweepers if they didn't sweep?

Plus, even if the team has ways of handling Blissey, you can't just discount it as a threat. Thats poor theorymoning. He doesn't have Wobbuffet Encoring a Thunderwaving Blissey paired up with a Dugtrio, so removing Blissey from the equation as a threat is lazy. Of the examples you gave, Jirachi is the only Pokémon that can do anything to Blissey. Also, Superpower doesn't disallow you from running max Speed. He is using Life Orb, so Superpower 2HKO's Blissey anyways.



EDIT1: Misread the statement you pointed out about Tyranitar and Focus Blast. Either way it is a valid point, so I don't see how it's a dead horse. Scoring a guaranteed OHKO on Tyranitar is definitely a reason to use it. Gliscor really doesn't need to be Toxic'd or Ice Beamed, either one is a bitch. Gyarados first needs to get a safe switch in and pray it doesn't get paralyzed or Toxic'd. Sure resstalk tran can stall Blissey, but after it gets you to low health and forces a rest, it gets a free switch in. And honestly, do you really think Gliscor setting up Stealth Rock is "beating Blissey"? Any Blissey with Toxic screws up his team badly.

Also: 226 Atk vs 119 Def & 651 HP (120 base power): 424 - 500 (65.13% - 76.8%) | Multipliers: 1.3 * 2.0

Thats Superpower on Blissey. 2HKO every time on the standard Shoddy Blissey. No one runs 252 / 252 Bold. If you really want to include that by all means you can, but I'll leave it up to Bam if he wants to prepare for a threat that was only really common in an outdated Wi-Fi Metagame.

Heres more:
1000 Atk vs 385 Def & 651 HP (95 base power): 177 - 209 (27.19% - 32.1%)

Ice Beam after +6 Attack from Porygon2. Paralyze / Toxic it and you guarantee a win in a stall war against Porygon2.

EDIT: Realized that this is for the analysis spread, but it still does not do a lot of damage. While you are Charge Beaming your ass up, though, the opponent will likely get a status on you, and afterwards stall you out.

Also, TyraniBoah and MixMence are mixed wall breakers. And can you honestly tell me that using Super Power on Deoxys-S isn't used to take out it's counters? It is exactly the same as Ice Beam DD Tar. What you decide to classify it as is not important to me, but the fact of the matter is that it is a mixed sweeper, and the one move that makes it mixed is used to take down it's main counter.

I'm not going to concede that mixed sweepers are "primarily used to break down defensive cores". That job is left to wall breakers. TyraniBoah doesn't sweep. MixMence doesn't sweep. Infernape can sweep IMO considering that with HP Ice / Grass Knot / Fire Blast / Close Combat it does one hell of a job at cleaning up for a late game sweep, even if it isn't the best for the job. DDTar with Ice Beam is a mixed sweeper; it sweeps. Dragon Dance Salamence/Dragonite with Fire Blast are mixed sweepers; they sweep.

And yes, DDTar can sweep with Ice Beam, or is Garchomp a defensive core now? When Dragonite Fire Blasts a Froslass or Weavile or Heracross, is that still solely breaking down a defensive core? No. It is sweeping.

EDIT2: Toxic - Magic Coat argument is left up to prediction in the battle, but if Porygon2 is Charge Beaming its ass up Bam probably won't just randomly have an epiphany that the opponent will suddenly use Toxic and he'll Magic Coat. Also, Blissey can come in on Deoxys-S, Porygon2, or Gliscor; thats honestly enough to cause problems. Hidden Power Ground Blissey's usage has been rising lately (from the Blisseys I've encountered) so that is still dangerous when paired with Softboiled/Toxic/Ice Beam. Anyways, it seems like you've left the topic of the mixed sweepers, so now I can finally get back to Bam.



A comment actually at Bam:
Heh... With that I'm noticing a bit of a Mamoswine weakness. Not sure how good Porygon2 is at handling LO Mamo, but if it is 2HKO'd the team is really hurt by it. Gyarados does a decent job, but with Stone Edge and Stealth Rock... Also how is it :D when you get +6 from Blissey if you still only do so little damage.

 

[Stathakis]

hmm, okay, the team doesn't completely destroy blissey, but meh. and husk mentioned not being able to 2HKO blissey with the deoxys that he used, and he reasoned that it's ok not to, so I thought it didn't for some reason. I feel kinda stupid about this whole thing. about the mixed sweepers arguement, I guess that's up to the definition of a mixed sweeper. and many of the mixed sweepers are wallbreakers, as in mixmence, mixape, tyraniboah, mixtar, etc. but honestly, slapping ice beam on ddttar doesn't make it a mixed sweeper imo. it makes it a physical sweeper with a move to get rid of its counters. I guess that whole thing is up to opinion on the definition of a mixed sweeper, as I said.

back on topic, as bam probably doesn't appreciate this whole arguement, well, actually, I have to leave. I'll add a real team rate in a bit D=

 

[Bam]

Meh, it was interesting to watch you two duke it out about that stuff, but just like anything that has two sides, one is always right in his own eyes :P (i.e. I'm not taking sides :P).

Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it that you guys put in the effort to help ;). I've done some more testing, and now Deo-S has been changed to 4 Atk/252 SpA/252 Spe, as it still OHKOs T-tar and 2HKOs most Bliss, but lets me beat out other Deo-S.

Gyara helps with Mamo quite a bit, but you're right, it can pose a problem sometimes. Usually I just switch to Gyara, and if it Curses, I Taunt. If it attacks, its banded, and I either Taunt or attack their counter to see what it is. Jirachi is faster than it and can hit it with Water Pulse, although I doubt that it would 2HKO (well, maybe). Deo-S can Super Power it, and if it has cursed, Heatran outspeeds and OHKOs with Lava Plume.

 

[Stathakis]

actually, due to mamo's craptastic special defense, water pules keeps him from switching into jirachi, though the confusion rate won't help him to counter on his own. imo getting gyarados in on the eq's and jirachi or gliscor on the stone edges is the best way to temporarily "counter" it. at least it can't switch in too easily. you could always change gyarados into one of those really bulky resttalking ones if you have issues with mamo, but I don't see it as enough of a problem to make any changes.

 

[Rag]

I've never had any problem with CBGross on this team. The only way it's really a threat is if my opponent knew my entire team and outpredicted me 6 out of 6 times, which has never happened. I have a 4x resist to Ice and Steel (Heatran), 2 immunities to Ground, and neither Heatran or Jirachi are OHKOd by Explosion (although I only switch Heatran in on those as he can Rest it off on Blissey or something). Gliscor also outspeeds and can damage it enough before it dies that either:
a) it can't switch in on any other attacks
b) my opponent lets it get revenge killed.

It's unnecessarily risky to resort to prediciton to handle a threat who normally can be handled with ease imo. Seeing how it potentially can OHKO anything you'd switch in, you would benefit a lot having a safe switch.

And sacrificing your Gliscor will make you really exposed to Fighting types in general. :p

I do have a small MixMence problem, but it's easily revenge-killed with Pory2/Deo-S and Stealth Rock generally kills it before it can do too much damage. Pretty much any team without Cressy doesn't have an answer to MixMence :P. However, I like the idea of using Milotic, but I have no idea of what I'd replace. Pory2 seems like the best fit, but that leaves me with no respectable counter to Gyara, and I'd much rather use Ice Beam than HP Electric on Milotic. Also, thanks for straightening out those EVs ;).

Teams with Milotic have an answer to Mixmence. :) 60hp/252def/196sdef makes Mixmence unable to 2HKO you respectively, even with Stealth Rock on the field. Seeing how most Salamence run Roost, they aren't worn down to easily, so having a way of handling it isn't such a bad idea.
You could run HP Electric over Surf, though. Or even run three attack moves.

 

[Pablo]

BAM I love the Porygon2 quote haha, too funny. Does Magic Coat have priority?

 

[Stathakis]

BAM I love the Porygon2 quote haha, too funny. Does Magic Coat have priority?

magic coat has +1 priority I believe. it may be some other odd number, like +2 or 3, but it doesn't really matter.

 

[Bam]

According to this, Magic Coat has +4 priority, beating out even Protect and Endure. Not that it matters, as there aren't any statusing priority moves.

I've changed up Deoxys' item and EVs a bit, hopefully it'll work out better for me.

 

[remix01]

Good that you changed Deoxys as it has awesome Type Coverage anyways, and Life Orb stalling kills him, like I was forced to do in our warstory haha