A Team Without Salamence Abuse! [OU]

[yamazaru]

OVERVIEW

THE PLAYERS​

Infernape - The Anti-Heatran

Nature: Adamant
EV: HP 6, Attack 252, Speed 252
Ability: Blaze
Item: Choice Scarf

- Close Combat
- Earthquake
- Flare Blitz
- U-Turn

Used to get rid of those pesky Heatran leads, with minor Defense and HP investment, that seem to pop-up every other game. I'm trying to remember who gave me the idea of this, but I can't. Flare Blitz for strong STAB Attack. Earthquake to get rid of Steels and other Fires. U-Turn switched with Grass Knot.


Dragonite - The Semi-Special Wall/Cleric

Nature: Calm
EV: HP 248, Spc. Defense 216, Speed 44
Ability: Inner Focus
Item: Leftovers

- Dragon Pulse
- Heal Bell
- Roost
- Thunder Wave

Ahhh. . . My Cleric. I got the idea of using Dragonite from raikoulover's thread on "Stop Using Dragonite!" So, credit to him. Dragon Pulse for STAB, Heal Bell to heal Toxic and Thunder Wave not tanked by Kingdra, Roost so he can sort of tank, and then Thunder Wave to deter sweeps.


Donphan - My Filler

Nature: Impish
EV: Defense 252, HP 252, Attack 6
Ability: Sturdy
Item: Leftovers

- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock

My Spinner and Stealth Rock-er. Not much use other then that. Ice Shard to make him semi-useful against Salamence. Earthquake for STAB. Other then that, I'm willing to replace him.


Empoleon - My Mid-Game Sweep

Nature: Calm
EV: HP 252, Spc. Attack 92, Defense 160, Speed 4
Ability: Torrent
Item: Leftovers

- Grass Knot
- Ice Beam
- Roar
- Surf

Grass Knot for Swampert, Ice Beam to kill Salamence, although I haven't done any calculations on how much Spc. Attack I need to kill him, Roar for phasing, and Surf for STAB. Generally, I send him on an attack he can resist and then proceed to attack with a Super Effective Attack.


Kingdra - The REAL Status Tank

Nature: Adamant
EV: HP 168, Speed 152, Attack 188
Ability: Sniper
Item: Leftovers

- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

I've fallen in love with this Kingdra set. But I'm not sure if I should keep it or not or switch up the Heal Bell on Dragonite. I would prefer to keep both Poke's, but I wouldn't mind switching the sets up a little. This set works wonders on teams that have no way of phasing or think that my Kingdra would be rendered useless after a Toxic/Thunder Wave.


Scizor - The Late Game Assassin

Nature: Adamant
EV: HP 6, Attack 252, Speed 252
Ability: Technician
Item: Life Orb

- Brick Break
- Bullet Punch
- Swords Dance
- X-Scissor

I'm honestly not sure on this set. Ideally, Scizor comes out at the end of the game and gets a Sword Dance in and then proceeds to clean up. But to do that, all of the Fire threats need to be neutralized. That's what my team is set up to do, in my opinion.

Miscellaneous

I seem to have trouble with Tyranitar and Steels if my Infernape dies.

 

[les gets]

I would add a more distinct special wall to your team. If you need a cleric, blissey works just fine. (;

I would add maybe a little more detail to your descriptions to keep the mods away. ;P

 

[greg3064]

Your Ape is physical, but Grass Knot is special. U-Turn could be useful for scouting purposes, both as a lead and in the early game. There aren't many variations as far as cleric Dragonite goes. I've run Toxic on one before, but that's better for taking out bulky waters, really, which is risky anyway due to Ice Beam. Empoleon, Kingdra, and Scizor definitely won't mind paralysis support, so I'd say that works. Blissey arguably does this better, although they have entirely different counters, which can work to your advantage. The fact that Dragonite will sometimes bring in Steel types expecting an Outrage is nice, giving you a free Heal Bell or a Thunder Wave on the switch.

As for Empoleon, I would suggest the Agility SubPetaya set. It's his most common set, but he does it so damn well and it really causes problems for a lot of Pokemon.

Empoleon @ Petaya Berry
Ability: Torrent
Nature: Modest (+SAtk, -Atk)
EVs: 12 HP/252 SAtk/12SDef/232 Spd
Moves:
~ Agility
~ Substitute
~ Surf
~ Ice Beam / Grass Knot

Basically come in, force something out, Agility, Sub, and then let them break your subs down to 1/4 HP, activating Petaya and Torrent giving you 1.5 SAtk and and addition 1.5 to Surf.

If that doesn't appeal to you or doesn't work, I would suggest running a Modest nature with 128 SAtk EVs to guaruntee a OHKO on the "Specially Bulky" Mence from the analysis, which is overkill, really. I would suggest at least running Agility on the set, as that makes Empoleon a major threat to many teams.

It's really kind of redundant to run a status absorbing Kingdra when you have a cleric. You have one physical sweeper already, but you may want to run the Double Dance set (Rain Dance / Dragon Dance / Waterfall / Outrage). It's more common, but, like Empoleon, it destroys teams that aren't prepared for it. Use Swift Swim so Rain Dance doubles your speed, Dragon Dance once or twice, and sweep. The rain will make Waterfall more powerful, so even resisted hits should do the trick. Outrage is best later in the game if you know there aren't any steels still hiding.

I use the exact same Scizor on my current team, just with the spread 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spd, as it's better suited for Life Orb recoil.

If you're setting up for a Scizor sweep, consider a Choice Dugtrio with Earthquake / Stone Edge / Sucker Punch / Aerial Ace. The traditional revenge killing Dugtrio uses a Choice Band to revenge Tyranitar like nothing else, but Scizor already takes care of Tyranitar fairly well. One option would be a Band with a Jolly nature, to outrun Tyranitar after a Dragon Dance and Scarf Magnezone. Another option is a Scarf with an Adamant nature. This has trouble KOing Tyranitar, but this way you outspeed Scarf Heatran. The key is Scarf Magnezone, which traps and kills Scizor. The last move could be Pursuit for killing Gengar locked into Thunderbolt, but it's really too situational, and Scizor OHKOs Gengar with Bullet Punch anyway. For your purposes, everything other than Earthquake is mostly filler.

This isn't incredibly reliable, as Scarfers can outspeed the Band version, and the Scarf version loses a lot of power. Also, priority screws it up, and in the cases of Lucario and Scizor, Sucker Punch doesn't really help. It's something to try, as it may help open up for a Scizor sweep, but if you don't find it reliable enough, just drop it.

 

[blasphemy1]

Props for using Dragonite. BTW, don't let anyone persuade you into using Blissey as a cleric-it is Pursuit/fighter bait. This team is incredibly weak to SD Lucario, as every pokemon is OHKOed after a SD, with the exception of Dragonite. Lucario typically won't switch into Dragonite, fearing a Draco Meteor / Fire Blast / Superpower, and if he does, you have just A)Rid your team of unwanted status, and B)Crippled a key sweeper on the other team. Blissey is OHKOed by Lucario's Close Combat even without a SD.

Dragonite also doesn't really mind Pursuit, while Blissey w/out Wish+Protect( cleric Bliss), will roll over and die to the move.

That is all I have to add, pretty good team otherwise.

 

[yamazaru]

I thought Grass Knot was Special but technically "wasn't" because it used the opponents weight, not your Spc. Attack.

Currently testing out the Empoleon and Kingdra spreads. Still wondering if I should take out Donphan and then the Grass Knot skill.

 

[Scepticallistic]

I thought Grass Knot was Special but technically "wasn't" because it used the opponents weight, not your Spc. Attack.

The weight of the opponent is just used to calculate the base power of the move. Damage calculation still uses Infernape's special attack and the target's special defense stat.

 

[blasphemy1]

Definitely U-Turn > Grass Knot on Infernape. This team has other ways of dealing with bulky waters, and they do it better(Empoleon+Kingdra). U-Turn deactivates suicide leads' Focus Sashes, so Scizor can finish them with Bullet Punch.

Modest > Calm on Empoleon. This is to help distinguish yourself from Blissey, although I suggest the standard SubAgility set because SpecsMence has pretty much died off.

 

[Lord Blood]

Nature: Adamant
EV: HP 160, Attack 96, Speed 252
Ability: Blaze
Item: Choice Scarf

- Close Combat
- Earthquake
- Flare Blitz
- Grass Knot

Possibly the worst Infernape I saw. CC already OHKOs Heatran. EQ is just redundant. HP EVs aren't necessary as Infernape already survives Scarf Tran with Timid's Earth Power with 10% hp left. Just switch Grass Knot with U-Turn and you have a good Infernape

 

[joshe]

I agree with LB. To make infernape better Max attack, and put U-turn>Grass Knot.

May edit for full rate later =)