Ability Shift

Excitement said:
Everyone always forgets about Gothitelle...

...yeah, Shadow Tag does seem pretty crazy. You can counter it with one item, though: Shed Shell. It's just another interesting threat to worry about.
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The problem lies in that you're pretty much sacrificing an item slot that coud be used for something better for an absolutely niche item to counter it. It's like saying "If you're having problems with Mega-Kangaskhan in OU, just run Cofagrigus." I completely forgot about Goth tho, and may have overreacted a bit there. Okay, let's just take BK's suggestion and ban things as they are proven broken. At least quickban Meloetta tho, because it has that combo with better bulk.
 
perishtrap melo is like mega gengar with actual bulk, leftovers, and doesnt need to mevo to actually do shit. the pokemon with soundproof either lose to meloetta (rhyperior, carracosta) or are just trash (lolcamerupt). basically it gets a free kill on anything that isnt a ghost/doesnt have a shed shell. imagine mega gengar, now on steroids.

something like perish song / protect / substitute is decent enough, and in the fourth slot meloetta can just run grass knot or energy ball to maim rhyperior and carracosta. with this, camerupt is the only thing that can actually survive against meloetta... never mind that camerupt is fucking shit otherwise. otherwise run ghost types lmao

a bunch of relevant calcs (assume a 252 hp / 252 def / 4 SpA spread for meloetta):

4 SpA Meloetta Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Rhyperior: 440-520 (101.3 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

rhyperior needs AV to survive grass knot. even with maximum specially defensive investment.

4 SpA Meloetta Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Carracosta: 272-320 (77.2 - 90.9%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Carracosta happens to fare better, but without investment into offense his attacks hit like a wuss and meloetta still 2 shots him regardless.

honestly yeah energy ball/grass knot are really specific but its not like meloetta needs the last slot anyway. you can do stuff like run psyshock or hyper voice for some strong stab

also ghosts can run from meloetta but otherwise meloetta beats everything that isn't a ghost

TLDR Meloetta can Perish Trap everything that isn't a ghost and doesn't run Shed Shell and can actually use her stupidly good movepool to KO things that would otherwise beat her, which includes niche counters like Soundproof Rhyperior and Carracosta.
 
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Perish Trap Meloetta seems broken as all hell, for sure. The set I would think will break the game is:

Meloetta @ Leftovers
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Perish Song
- Protect
- Grass Knot
- Substitute / Sing / Heal Bell / Light Screen / Magic Coat

I chose a physically defensive spread because Meloetta's special bulk is already massive, while it's physical defensive could really use some patching up if it's going to handle the likes of Protean Entei. Speaking of Entei:

252+ Atk Life Orb Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Meloetta: 183-216 (45.2 - 53.4%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Not bad, though the huge burn chance could be problematic.

Protect is for stalling the Perish Count. Grass Knot beats the only two usable pokemon with Soundproof. For the last slot, Substitute further helps Meloetta stay alive, while Sing, although inaccurate, can be used to stop a trapped pokemon from attacking Meloetta. Heal Bell or Light Screen can be used for some additional team support. Magic Coat is there in case you want to trap things that carry Taunt, Toxic, and other annoyances.

Imposter Snorlax, while it also looks broken, keeps things like Simple Venomoth, Speed Boost Mr. Mime, and Shadow Tag CM Jirachi somewhat in check.

One thing that does help with all the Shadow Tag users running amok is the prevalence of moves like U-Turn and Baton Pass that bypass Shadow Tag (Though the latter doesn't help with Meloetta much)

Also, something I've noticed is that both Gastrodon and Crobat's lines keep an abillity (Storm Drain and Inner Focus). Shame Crobat didn't keep it's GOOD abillity, but still interesting.
 
One thing that does help with all the Shadow Tag users running amok is the prevalence of moves like U-Turn and Baton Pass that bypass Shadow Tag
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Baton pass keeps the perish count to the next mon.
I agree though, meloetta should be quickbanned.
Edit: My bad, read your post on my phone, missed that part, sorry
 
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Ellipse said:
Baton pass keeps the perish count to the next mon.
I agree though, meloetta should be quickbanned.
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Hence where I said, "(Although Baton Pass doesn't help much with Meloetta)". Baton Pass DOES, however help with Jirachi, Shaymin-Sky, Togekiss, and any other Shadow Tag users running amok.
 
So Exploud gets Speed Boost. I'll just leave it at that.

- Simple Venomoth/Vivilon
- Sap Sipper Garchomp/Golem/Dugtrio
- Protean Kyurem/Weavile
- Magic Bounce Tentacruel
- Gooey Snorlax
- Defiant Archeops
- Arena Trap Ferrothorn
- Adaptability Darmanitan
 
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I have implemented this on Joim's Lab. It's lost somewhere among all the other OMs on our completely unordered list. TheBurgerKing99 let me know if anything is banned or you want something updated. I assume that when you said "all move combos are legal" on the OP that you mean all incompatibilities are removed?
 
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Yeah, it's just there to make things simpler (since abilities are changing, and it's annoying to figure it all out)
 
<---- My love for this guy and his evos is very much real and now seismotoad gets prankster

Ranger Mike Rocks!!! (Seismitoad) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Spd
Calm Nature
IVs: NaN Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Substitute
- Scald

Ok its a pretty shitty support movepool but here's all the other prankster mons ok dragalge can set up t spikes and has prankster haze but a man can dream can't he? l Croagunk, Dragalge, Grimer, Muk, Seismitoad, Skrelp, Toxicroak

Edit: lmao huge power combee new meta, it gets ONE physical move in bug bite but still...
 
Ranger Mike my mon got buffed incredibly too!
The Destroyer of Worlds (Golem [as if that name didn't immediately pop into your head anyway])
Leftovers Sap Sipper :D
252 HP 252 SpD 4 At
EQ/Sleep Talk
Stone Edge/Sleep Talk
Sucker Punch/Rest
Curse
With another immunity and one less 4x weakness, this bouldered brute has a much easier time setting up. You can opt for a more offensive set and choose the attacking moves or go for the long haul and run Resttalk + a STAB to set up until Golem isn't awesome anymore (so basically you setup till +6 and beyond that forever). Sucker Punch is his old Gen 5 toy that continues to cover up his slight speed issue.

Now, Golem still (surprisingly enough) has some flaws :I :o :0 :O xP
Revenge killing by strong special attackers and anything with water gun is still an issue for him, so try and remove those threats before attempting to setup. Sap Sipper is an amazing addition though because grass offense used to be something else that needed to be removed but not anymore! Golem can now even set up on the likes of Venusaur, SD Celebi, and others who run energyball, leaf blade, giga drain, etc for coverage.

Another option would be an autotomize set, because after even one boost with max investment and a Jolly nature he gets past max base 130's and max ev neutral natured 150's. It is a very appealing option now with Sap Sipper easing setup also.

Ranger Mike: about that Combee..
252+ Atk Huge Power Combee Bug Bite vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Deoxys-D: 128-152 (42.1 - 50%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
My new wallbreaker lol can't even 2HKO Special Def variant!
 
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Really awesome Meta, wonder what it would be like if we did the same thing for moves

Download Thundurus, because regular Thundurus just wan't powerful enough
Gale Wing Furfrou... Really?
Snow Warning Mamoswine Yay a good Hail setter :3
Toxic Heal Kingklang... Seriously?
 
I have an idea, the broken ones, instead of banning them they get the ability next to their new abilities. For Example Greninja, Protean -> Pure Power -> Quick Feet ( which actually makes sense). This will make the metagame much more balanced. Also might as well ban shadow tag and make it shed skin?
 
Azumarill's Rage said:
I have an idea, the broken ones, instead of banning them they get the ability next to their new abilities. For Example Greninja, Protean -> Pure Power -> Quick Feet ( which actually makes sense). This will make the metagame much more balanced. Also might as well ban shadow tag and make it shed skin?
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For Greninja, you could just force it to use its other ability (although that doesn't work with a lot of broken things.)
 
Arena Trap Ferrothorn (anticipation) is really good. I don't think I've seen it mentioned in this thread, but it can trap and leech seed stall a lot of things. It also beats imposter snorlax by mutually trapping it and pp stalling since neither can hurt each other.
 
I quite enjoy this OM but something has to be done about HP Greninja it really only has 2 counters that I can see, Fur coat Super-Gourgeist and Fur coat Dusclops, also Meloetta should be banned. By the away can anything be done for Mega-Ampharos and Mega-Gyarados, they could just use their next ability, I really wanted to try Motor drive Mega-Gyarados.
 
TheBurgerKing99 said:
Okay, melo is quick banned, and I'm considering banning imposter snorlax (it's not that broken, but it introduces that kind of teambuilding aspect that BH has, and I don't want that to be part of my metagame, as I want it to be unique.)
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Meloetta is now banned on Joim's Lab
 
TheBurgerKing99 said:
Okay, melo is quick banned, and I'm considering banning imposter snorlax (it's not that broken, but it introduces that kind of teambuilding aspect that BH has, and I don't want that to be part of my metagame, as I want it to be unique.)
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I think you should ban shadow tag as whole, and replace every user that used to have shadow tag as their new ability with shed skin. Shadow Tag seems broken on all users that used to have serene grace with perish song or not.
 
TheBurgerKing99 said:
Okay, melo is quick banned, and I'm considering banning imposter snorlax (it's not that broken, but it introduces that kind of teambuilding aspect that BH has, and I don't want that to be part of my metagame, as I want it to be unique.)
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Ban it as soon as possible its like a reincarnation of imposter blissey/chansey. ( Crossed it out because you were raging)
 
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