AbNormal {Community Project} [Voting Phase]

[MegaGallade]

A lot of text.

The whole purpose is to prevent random choices with no reason why. Such as a Psychic type Pyroar. It makes no sense flavour, design or otherwise.
I deleted said post for personal reasons, not for ignorant reasons. As I said, I will try again with my own submissions when I can express justification better, and when I can use logic properly. Once again, it's not because of others but of personal reasons.
This thread isn't for stuff like this, so this is the end of the conversation.

Anyway, due to time scheduling the It's Voting Time!

Pyroar

Fire <+Boomburst> (PokemonMasterDebater)
Fire/Dark <+Foul Play, +Nasty Plot> (Ghoul King/desuko)
Fire/Poison <+Sludge Wave, +Poison Fang> (the someone)

*I have once again fused two people's entries, due to the similarities. If Ghoul King or desuko object to this, I will gladly seperate the entries once again. For now however, they are the same entry.

Heliolisk

Electric/Dragon <+Dragon Pulse, +Draco Meteor, +Hyper Voice> (PokemonMasterDebater)
Electric/Dragon <+Dragon Pulse, +Draco Meteor, +Dragon Claw> (Ghoul King)
Electric/Fire <+Morning Sun, +Solar Beam, +Fire Blast> (the someone)
Electric/Poison <+Sludge Wave> (desuko)
Electric/Grass <+Giga Drain, +Energy Ball> (zerobreaker000)

Girafarig

Psychic/Dark <+Dark Pulse> (Ghoul King)
Psychic <+Nasty Plot> (desuko)
Psychic/Ghost <+Shadow Sneak, +Shadow Force> (zerobreaker000)

Sawsbuck

Grass/Ground <+Earthquake, +Rototiller> (Ghoul King)
Grass/Fairy (Spring) Grass/Ghost (Autumn) Grass/Ice (Winter) Grass (Summer) <+Play Rough, +Shadow Sneak, +Icicle Crash> (the someone)*
Grass/Fairy (Spring) Grass/Ground (Autumn) Grass/Ice (Winter) Grass (Summer) <+Drill Run, +Icicle Crash, +Flower Shield> (desuko) *
Grass <+Flame Charge, +Icicle Crash, +Bulldoze> (zerobreaker000)

*Weather Ball and Leaf Blade respectively were also on the list of added moves, but have been removed due to submission rules. If the someone or desuko wants Weather Ball/Leaf Blade respectively to be exchanged with another move, I will gladly change it. For now, the new moves are as follows.

Stomp

Dragon (Ghoul King)
Fighting (the someone/desuko)
Ground (zerobreaker000)

Last Resort

Dark (the majority of people)
Fighting (the someone)

Double-Edge

Dragon (Ghoul King)
Steel (desuko)
Fighting (MegaGallade) (Due to the fact 'Tackling' somebody obviously counts as fighting, so thus it's japanese name, 'Life-risking Tackle' can justify it too. If Staraptor, in the future, becomes Fighting/Flying, this would also help it)

Get voting!

To keep the forum page alive during the voting phase, here are a few discussion points about our previous type changes and more:

• Which Pokemon obtain/lose an advantage from Dragon-type Hyper Voice and Flying type Boomburst?
• What new sets can be made using the new retypes?
• Do you think any of these retyped Pokemon will get more usage because of these retypes?
• Which entries for this week do you agree/disagree with? [Remember: Be to the point and decisive, no hate]

Thanks for all the submissions!

 

[Cookie Butter]

I guess I can help.
Move: Last Resort
New type: Fighting
Justification: Final Gambit, a move with a similar concept, is Fighting type. Last Resort is also related to "the will to keep fighting and trying".

 

[Ghoul King]

Which Pokemon obtain/lose an advantage from Dragon-type Hyper Voice and Flying type Boomburst?

Altaria, Dialga, Giratina, Hydreigon, Kyurem (Including both Black and White, of course), Palkia, Rayquaza, Reshiram, Salamence, and Zekrom all are existing Dragons that appreciate having a more powerful alternative to Dragon Pulse that incidentally bypasses Substitutes (Exceptions: Palkia already has Spacial Rend, but it can miss, while Zekrom is too physically oriented to be likely to care), or in Doubles/Triples play a STAB move for smashing both/all enemies is great too. (Which is a use Arceus appreciates in Dragon Forme, where in Singles it will just run Judgment)

Pokemon that might appreciate Hyper Voice for coverage reasons include Ho-Oh, Houndoom, Pyroar, Ludicolo, Maractus, Seismitoad, Wailord, Politoed, and Jolteon. Mostly Pyroar, Ludicolo, and Seismitoad seem likely to care, and maybe Jolteon just because the Eeveelutions have pretty narrow movepools.

Boomburst literally means Exploud (Sad to lose STAB, but now it's coverage) Chatot (Retains STAB, appreciates the direct upgrade barring Electric types resisting), Noivern (Never run Air Slash ever again) and there's Swellow but it doesn't really care.

Do you think any of these retyped Pokemon will get more usage because of these retypes?

I suspect Exploud's usage will actually drop, because the one thing it had going for it (STAB Boomburst without Chatot's even more awful stats) has been taken from it in exchange for competing with Krookodile. Which is better than it while being little-used.

I don't anticipate Chatot's usage changing from its own type changing, really. Boomburst being almost 100% improved might jolt it up.

Meloetta, in particular Pirouette, is still going to be awkward, and now Aria is directly competing with Gardevoir/Mega Gardevoir, but if you would like to run Gardevoir but not Mega Gardevoir, Meloetta-Aria is nearly a straight upgrade, having more in literally every stat, most notably HP and Defense. (Its Special Attack and Special Defense are barely improved over Gardevoir) Trace is about the only reason to use Gardevoir over Meloetta-Aria, and, I dunno, its access to Electric coverage? Also, since Meloetta has Serene Grace, its Moon Blasts will have a whopping 60% chance of lowering the foe's Special Attack, making it Aria's go-to STAB offense, especially in Special wars.

Which entries for this week do you agree/disagree with? [Remember: Be to the point and decisive, no hate]

I'm not a fan of taking advantage of changing Sawsbuck's type with its Form, because in Gen V it changed Form with the seasons while in Gen VI it's just locked into whatever Form you sent it in -changing types and especially giving each Form a separate move is just incredibly unwieldy in that context. Yes, this pet mod almost certainly is intended only for the simulator where the problems are irrelevant, but it's still there. It also just seems gimmicky to me.

I already covered why I'm not a fan of Poison Pyroar -there's nothing about Pyroar that suggests Poison and the submitter explicitly indicated they were aware of this and deliberately running in a different direction. It's possible I've been misunderstanding the intent of this Pet Mod, but I've been interpreting the agenda as, broadly speaking, to remove the Normal type by re-typing moves and Pokemon essentially as if the Normal type had never been generated yet the Pokemon and moves that are currently Normal type were still created with the parameters given and flavor provided. Not to, essentially, engage in CAP-esque behavior that we call "removing the Normal type".

I also have a broad criticism of people's interpretation of the Fighting type: it's not workable to interpret it as the "anything that involves fighting" type because that's far, far too broad an umbrella for Pokemon -you might as well re-type every move that isn't a Status move (And many of them too) to Fighting type and forget any other type exists, using that umbrella. I personally suspect martial arts in specific are the strongest influence on the Fighting type, but I don't expect people to agree with me on this topic -I just think it's really problematic to say something like "tackling someone is an attack, so it's Fighting type." so much so that it's untenable as a logic statement, even if I assume my own interpretation of the Fighting type is wrong.

... I am glad to see some variety to Heliolisk's entries, myself, even if I take issue with most of the gameplay implications of most of the entries.

 

[Cookie Butter]

I already covered why I'm not a fan of Poison Pyroar -there's nothing about Pyroar that suggests Poison and the submitter explicitly indicated they were aware of this and deliberately running in a different direction. It's possible I've been misunderstanding the intent of this Pet Mod, but I've been interpreting the agenda as, broadly speaking, to remove the Normal type by re-typing moves and Pokemon essentially as if the Normal type had never been generated yet the Pokemon and moves that are currently Normal type were still created with the parameters given and flavor provided. Not to, essentially, engage in CAP-esque behavior that we call "removing the Normal type".

I won't do that again. :P

EDIT:
Later on, I believe we should have a limit of Normal moves that become a specific type (if there's too many of one type, of course).
If this Fighting/Dragon trend goes on, this won't be as interesting as it could.

 

[MegaGallade]

Later on, I believe we should have a limit of Normal moves that become a specific type (if there's too many of one type, of course).
If this Fighting/Dragon trend goes on, this won't be as interesting as it could.

That may be a good idea, I'll see after next weeks' submissions.

 

[MegaGallade]

Sorry for the double post, once again but Votes are in!

Pyroar Fire +Boomburst (By PokemonMasterDebater )

Heliolisk Electric/Grass +Giga Drain, +Energy Ball (By zerobreaker000 )

Sawsbuck Grass/Ground +Earthquake, +Rototiller (By Ghoul King )

Girafarig Dark/Psychic +Dark Pulse (By Ghoul King )

Stomp Ground (By zerobreaker000 )
Double-Edge Steel (By zerobreaker000 )
Last Resort Dark (By Ghoul King )

Thanks to all that submitted!
And now...

New Pokemon/Moves for Submission

Kecleon

Porygon2 and Porygon-Z (These two can have different types, or the same. This is because they are both used fairly commonly in the meta)

Farfetch'd


Tri-Attack
Slash
Hyper Beam

Get submitting!

Other discussion points:

• Should AbNormal allow changing the base stats/abilities of Normal-type Pokemon?
• How many Pokemon/Moves per week would you like? Would you prefer the normal 3 Pokemon and 3 moves or something else?
• What Normal-type Pokemon would you want to have it's type changed for another time?

Note: The submission time for this week will be slightly longer and not monitored as much as usual due to unforeseen circumstances. The Voting Period for this week will start next Sunday, and results revealed on Monday. After that, the schedule will be fairly back to normal.

 

[Ghoul King]

Slash
Steel type

Why: For the most part Slashing Pokemon are employing a sword-like tool and there's ample evidence that there are sword motifs to the Slash set of moves, such as the Japanese name for Night Slash ("Blade Testing") alluding to a grisly samurai practice of testing a sword's edge on peasants.

Also because it gives more Steel coverage for Pokemon.

Tri Attack
Dragon type

Why: Because Dragons are strongly associated with elemental mastery in Pokemon, frequently learning Fire, Ice, and Electric moves -and Ice in particular stands out, because Pokemon are often unable to learn moves of a type they are vulnerable to. (Presumably because a Grass type breathing fire would expect to set itself on fire, for instance) My ideal scenario would be to make Tri Attack finally all three types, by attacking with three hits, one of each type, but that's a bit outside this mod's realm. So Dragon type.

Hyper Beam
Dark type

Why: "Destruction Beam" is the Japanese name, and that personally puts me in mind of a ruthlessly, recklessly destructive mind-set -kill everything and let God sort them out sort of vibe. It's either that or another Normal-turned-Dragon move, and that would make Roar of Time even dumber than it already is...

Kecleon
Dragon type
+Draco Meteor, Dragon Claw

Why: Because it's really hard to justify any particular typing other than error: type missing for the blasted thing, but since that's what we're doing, there's enough overlap between Dragon-ness and reptile-ness (Which is what Kecleon is, a reptile) that I can buy it as a Dragon -and it's comparatively neutral, which fits to its Color Change and Protean access.

Porygon line (I've been assuming the entire line changes to fit our decisions, barring type changing that occurs through evolution)
Psychic type
+Psyshock

Why: Because it's a manifestation of pure (computer) thought! Incidentally, it can actually learn Psychic, so it still has STAB.

Farfetch'd
Water/Flying type
+Aqua Jet, Aqua Tail

Why: Because it's a duck.

No this is not a good idea, but my better one is "pure Flying because nothing else fits".

Should AbNormal allow changing the base stats/abilities of Normal-type Pokemon?

In cases where the Ability only makes contextual sense in the typing, very possibly. Maybe deal with base stats later, after all the types have been set?

What Normal-type Pokemon would you want to have it's type changed for another time?

Eevee, Castform, Arceus are my picks.

EDIT: Forgot I can add moves.

 

[Illusio]

Porygon
Psychic/Steel Type

Because they're computers. +Automotize and +Magnet Bomb

 

[Mantodea]

Kecleon
Dark type
Kecleon can change colors to trick its opponents, and Dark types tend to use trickery when they fight.

Porygon
Electric/Psychic type
+Psyshock
Porygon and its evolutions are supposed to be computer programs, so they would have to be Electric type to interact with computers, and they would be Psychic because computers are smart.

Farfetch'd
Flying/Grass type
Keeps the Flying type for obvious reasons, gets Grass because of the leek/onion thing.

 

[canno]

I'm on phone so my list won't be in proper format till I fix it, but my submission for the Porygons is Mono Electric, as they are the data Pokemon, which screams electric to me. Parabolic Charge is the move I'd give it because lel calculators (which is what computers mainly did way back when iirc)

EDIT: forgot about this lel

Pokemon(s): Porygon / Porygon2 / Porygon-Z
Type: Electric
Movepool: +Parabolic Charge

Considering that the Porygon line is essentially data the pokmeon, the most logical thing in my mind is mono-electric, as electric is the closes to computers and the internet with the ties to technology and electricity. Parabolic Charge is a silly math move for our data ducks, whcih I feel fits well.

Moves: Hyper Beam
Type: Psychic

Hyper Beam is a huge blast of energy, and is very tied to competitive gen 1 gameplay, as Normal-types would spam this. Another thing that's iconic for gen 1 is Psychic, also known as the best type ever. A huge blast of energy doesn't seem that outlandish for Psychic either.

Pokemon: Kecleon
Type: Dark
Movepool: +Pursuit

Just go read the other's reasoning for Dark. However, I added Pursuit to its movepool - it be easy to pursuit its prey with the ability to turn invisible, and it's easy to say it uses its invisibility factors for hunting. In fact, the Pokedex for Sapphire straight-up says it does

KECLEON alters its body coloration to blend in with its surroundings, allowing it to sneak up on its prey unnoticed. Then it lashes out with its long, stretchy tongue to instantly ensnare the unsuspecting target.

Move: Tri-Attack
Type: Electric

This is only because I want it to match Porygon line. Also you could try and justify it with it being semi-math related, which fits with Parabolic Charge. Or something. I just want Pory to have STAB on it because its cute.

 

[Cookie Butter]

Pokemon: Kecleon
New type: Dark
Justification: Kecleon learns quite a few Dark type moves, including Thief and Sucker Punch by levelling-up and Nasty Plot by breeding. The theme of camouflage and hiding is also a cheap trick, fitting for a Dark type.

Pokemon: Porygon2
New type: Electric/Steel
Justification: Porygon2 is based off of a computer software. 'Nuff said. It also gets quite a lot of Electric type moves.

Pokemon: Porygon-Z
New type: Electric/Poison
Justification: Porygon-Z is based off of a computer software infected with something. The "Dubious Disk" is used to make it evolve. It is said to act strangely. Etc.

Pokemon: Farfetch'd
New type: Fighting/Flying
New moves: +Sacred Sword
Justification: Farfetch'd has Defiant AKA Competitive Spirit as one of its abilities. It is said to fight to death to protect its stick.

Move: Tri-Attack
New type: Electric (Part Ice and Fire type like Flying Press. If 3 types aren't possible, only part Ice type.)
Justification: Tri Attack being the 3 types its secondary effects represent should be self explanatory. I decided to make it Electric type as a base because it is "a triangular field of energy" after all. I also decided to make it Electric/Ice type in case of 3 types not being possible because electricity is already quite hot (some natural lightnings are hotter than the sun), and electricity can very well burn things.

Move: Slash
New type: Steel
Justification: Basically the same reason as Ghoul King.

Move: Hyper Beam
New type: Electric
Justification: It is a concentrated energy beam. The Pokemon Stadium animations show it as a yellow lightning-like attack.

Hide

 

[Illusio]

Farfetch'd
Flying/Grass type
Keeps the Flying type for obvious reasons, gets Grass because of the leek/onion thing.

It's not just a leek/onion thing, it's a stick!

No seriously, the item's name is Stick.

 

[zerobreaker000]

Porygon2
Electric/Psychic type

"With planetary development software installed, it became capable of working in space." Space is often represented by Psychic type, and Electric type is due to its status as a digital pokemon.

Porygon-Z
Electric/Ghost type
+Confuse Ray, Shadow Sneak

"Its programming was modified to enable it to travel through alien dimensions. Seems there might have been an error..." First thing that comes to mind is Giratina, which is part Ghost type.

Farfetch'd
Flying type

Nothing really fits the duck's flavor. Like, it's just literally a duck with a stick of onion. That's it.

Hyper Beam
Dark type

Its Japanese (and Chinese) name means "Destruction Beam". And since Yveltal, the Destruction Pokemon, is part Dark type...

 

[PokemonMasterDebater]

Should AbNormal allow changing the base stats/abilities of Normal-type Pokemon?

Yes, in some cases. Things like Scrappy on Kangaskhan for instance, since it no longer has STAB moves affected by Scrappy. Also, at some point we may want to give moves that have yet to have their type changed to Pokemon that have already had their type changed, so having a sort of review stage after everything has had it's type type changed would be a good idea.

How many Pokemon/Moves per week would you like? Would you prefer the normal 3 Pokemon and 3 moves or something else?

I think doing 4 pokemon per week is a good number. Adding on 2 or 3 status moves every phase would let us get through the competitively irrelevant type changes faster.

What Normal-type Pokemon would you want to have it's type changed for another time?

Slaking, Regigigas, Dunsparce, Swellow.

 

[Choice Banned]

New Type: Psychic/Dark
+Psycho Cut
Justification: Dark (other people nominating this explained) and Psychic is due to the "tricks" it plays with changing colors, being a chameleon.

New Type: Electric/Steel
+Flash Cannon
Justification: Technology, and most technology is associated with Electric and Steel types.

New Type: Electric/Dark
+Volt Switch
Justification: Electric as mentioned above, Dark is due to the "virus" implied in Dex entries.

(someone had to get this done)
New Type: Flying
Justification: Going through types, really no other type fits Farfetch'd.

 

[Throbulator36]

New Type: Psychic/Dark
+Psycho Cut
Justification: Dark (other people nominating this explained) and Psychic is due to the "tricks" it plays with changing colors, being a chameleon.

New Type: Electric/Steel
+Flash Cannon
Justification: Technology, and most technology is associated with Electric and Steel types.

New Type: Electric/Dark
+Volt Switch
Justification: Electric as mentioned above, Dark is due to the "virus" implied in Dex entries.

(someone had to get this done)
New Type: Flying
Justification: Going through types, really no other type fits Farfetch'd.

fighting does. js

 

[MegaGallade]

(I've been assuming the entire line changes to fit our decisions, barring type changing that occurs through evolution)

I'm surprised this is the first time someone has asked this. I just want to clarify that is indeed true, unless Pokemon that are used commonly in the meta are from the same evolution line (as the case with Porygon2 and Porygon-Z) in which I will allow different submissions for each.
For example, Aipom is also Dark type due to the fact Ambipom is now also Dark type.

So, thanks for all the submissions and feedback thus far , I will put them all into consideration, and I am glad the thread didn't fall into chaos while I was away (although it was never likely to happen), but anyway... It's Voting Time!
If you do not know how to vote, please read the OP.

Kecleon

Dragon <+Draco Meteor, Dragon Claw> (Ghoul King)
Dark <+Pursuit> (Mantodia/The Reptile/the someone) *If either one of Mantodia/the someone or The Reptile would want their submission separate from each other, please notify me. Due to similarities, I have fused the submissions.
Psychic/Dark <+Psycho Cut> (cooldude_dude)
Grass/Dragon <+Draco Meteor, +Leaf Blade, +Dragon Claw> (Mega Gallade) **Grass due to being based on Arboreal Chameleons due to colour, Dragon due to lizards being associated with Dragon.

Porygon Line

All: Psychic <+Psyshock> (Ghoul King)
All: Psychic/Steel <+Autotomize, +Magnet Bomb> (Flying types rule!)
All: Psychic/Electric <+Psyshock> (Mantodea)
All: Electric <+Parabolic Charge> (The Reptile)
Porygon2: Electric/Steel <+Flash Cannon> (the someone/cooldude_dude) *If either one of the someone or cooldude_dude would want their submission separate from each other, please notify me. Due to similarities, I have fused the submissions.
Porygon-Z: Electric/Poison <No new moves> (the someone)
Porygon2: Electric/Psychic <No new moves> (zerobreaker000)
Porygon-Z: Electric/Ghost <+Confuse Ray, +Shadow Sneak> (zerobreaker000)
Porygon-Z: Electric/Dark <+Volt Switch> (cooldude_dude)

**Note: Porygon2 and Porygon-Z count as two individual Pokemon. Also note, try and make your votes similar. If you want a Psychic type Porygon2, it wouldn't really make sense to vote for an Electric/Ghost Porygon-Z as the types are very different.

Farfetch'd

Water/Flying <+Aqua Jet, +Aqua Tail> (Ghoul King)
Flying/Grass <No new moves> (Mantodea)
Fighting/Flying <+Sacred Sword> (the someone)
Flying <No new moves> (zerobreaker000/cooldude_dude)

Slash

Steel (Ghoul King/the someone)
Fighting (MegaGallade) **Slashing is often associated with... Fighting. Most users of this move appear to use their own body to use said move as well. Also there was only one submission for Slash. :/

Tri Attack

Dragon (Ghoul King)
Electric (The Reptile/the someone)

*Unfortunately submissions using three/two types for this move have been removed due to the fact it is a little... Farfetch'd.

Hyper Beam

Dark (Ghoul King/zerobreaker000)
Psychic (The Reptile)
Electric (the someone)

To keep the thread alive, here are a few discussion points from the previous week's changes and more:

• Which entries for this week do you agree/disagree with? [Remember: Be to the point and decisive, no hate]
• Do you think any of these retyped Pokemon will get more usage because of these retypes?
• What new sets can be made using the new retypes?
• Which/Do Pokemon gain/lose an advantage from Ground type Stomp or Steel type Double-Edge?

Once again, thanks for submitting, and get voting!

 

[Cookie Butter]

Which/Do Pokemon gain/lose an advantage from Ground type Stomp or Steel type Double-Edge?

Rock Head set Aggron gets a nice boost with STAB Head Smash and STAB Double-Edge.
Ground type Stomp is really underwhelming to most Pokemon, since a lot of them get Earthquake. Zebstrika and Entei could use it, but that's about it.

EDIT: I believe the Porygon voting is quite confusing, so here's my idea for it:

Porygon2

Porygon2: Psychic <+Psyshock> (Ghoul King)
Porygon2: Psychic/Steel <+Autotomize, +Magnet Bomb> (Flying types rule!)
Porygon2: Psychic/Electric <+Psyshock> (Mantodea, zerobreaker000) *If either one of Mantodea or zerobreaker000 would want their submission separate from each other, please notify me. Due to similarities, I have fused the submissions.
Porygon2: Electric <+Parabolic Charge> (The Reptile)
Porygon2: Electric/Steel <+Flash Cannon> (the someone/cooldude_dude) *If either one of the someone or cooldude_dude would want their submission separate from each other, please notify me. Due to similarities, I have fused the submissions.

Porygon-Z

Porygon-Z: Psychic <+Psyshock> (Ghoul King)
Porygon-Z: Psychic/Steel <+Autotomize, +Magnet Bomb> (Flying types rule!)
Porygon-Z: Psychic/Electric <+Psyshock> (Mantodea)
Porygon-Z: Electric <+Parabolic Charge> (The Reptile)
Porygon-Z: Electric/Poison <No new moves> (the someone)
Porygon-Z: Electric/Ghost <+Confuse Ray, +Shadow Sneak> (zerobreaker000)
Porygon-Z: Electric/Dark <+Volt Switch> (cooldude_dude)

 

[Ghoul King]

Which/Do Pokemon gain/lose an advantage from Ground type Stomp or Steel type Double-Edge?

Stomp isn't invalidated by Earthquake for Rapidash, Entei (Who appreciates a minor BP increase over Bulldoze, overall, and gets good use out of the Flinch potential being fast), Exeggutor (whatever), Kingler (OHKO Electric types on an anticipated switch!), Zebstrika, and some Little Cup Pokemon, basically.

Tyrantrum is literally the only Pokemon with Rock Head who doesn't get Double Edge, which means Aerodactyl, Golem, Blue Striped Basculin, Aggron, Relicanth, Marowak, Rhydon (Not Rhyperior), Steelix, and Sudowoodo all have a free 120 BP Steel Physical move -which is pretty fantastic. Magic Guard Physical Clefable also replaces Meteor Mash with Double Edge, though Physical Clefable isn't much of a thing in the first place. The big winners here are Aggron (50% boost to its damage over Iron Head, generally too slow to get the Flinch on Iron Head anyway), Aerodactyl (Miss out on the Flinch though), and Steelix. (crazy STAB damage again)

Do you think any of these retyped Pokemon will get more usage because of these retypes?

Pyroar is now forced to compete with literally every other pure Fire type and tons of part-Fire types in trying to justify its existence. Giving it Boomburst is not only bizarre but unlikely to save it.

Heliolisk is already a really good Pokemon -and now it's liable to take a big hit to its utility because it's hard-walled by Grass types, is vulnerable to the Sun when that's a problem for 2 of its 3 Ability variants, and just generally hasn't gotten much out of this. Sure, now it isn't weak to Ground and is in fact STAB super effective on Ground types -but that places it firmly in the territory of "bad Rotom Wash".

Sawsbuck is competing with Torterra -but that's OK, because Torterra is a slow wall while Sawsbuck has some actual Speed. Sawsbuck now has some utility for Grass-heavy teams in Doubles/Triples play, and Grass/Ground is actually a nifty combination from the perspective of a Sand team: it's not vulnerable to Water (2 of 3 Sandstorm immune types are vulnerable and the last is neutral), it resists Ground (Where two out of three Sandstorm immune types are vulnerable and the last is neutral), and Grass offense is useful for punishing enemy Ground, Rock, and Water types -so enemy Sandstorm immunes and Sand's greatest overall nemesis. It probably won't be great anyway, but it will almost certainly show up on at least some Sandstorm teams, if nothing else.

Girafarig is probably going to be held back by the intersection of A: not having great stats anyway and B: having little unique to it over Malamar, who has the amazing Contrary Superpower and more situational Topsy-Turvy. It's faster and Special oriented, at least. And it's possible Normal moves being changed down the line will help separate it -Retaliate, Razor Wind, and Snore are all moves it has that we haven't defined yet, and I could see Power Herb Razor Wind turning out to be a thing if it fills some coverage hole for Girafarig. Maybe.

Which entries for this week do you agree/disagree with? [Remember: Be to the point and decisive, no hate]

Pyroar vexes me because there's already a ton of pure Fire types, so making Pyroar into another one of those is 99% certain to render Pyroar useless and irrelevant -and the remaining 1% of the time it's liable to simply shunt aside some other unfortunate Pokemon, not carve out a new niche for itself. Adding Boomburst is also quite the stretch. Pyroar has a unique sound move, so it gets a less unique sound move of a completely different nature? Why?

Heliolisk sounds cool on paper -first Grass/Electric that isn't Rotom-Mow- and also sounds like an improvement over regular Heliolisk -remove its Ground weakness and give it STAB on punishing pesky Ground types- but is a completely awful fit to its roles within weather teams, which is the main place it ever shows up. A Sun team already has plenty of Grass options to pick from and was happier with Heliolisk in Standard because it had no overlap with typical Sun choices, while for a Rain team Heliolisk's new typing is exaggerating what Dry Skin already does -laugh off Water but hate Fire- and throwing in weaknesses to Ice (Rain teams already struggle to KO enemy Water types [who are the primary users of Ice], and Ludicolo is a vastly superior answer to them then Heliolisk is), Poison, and Bug. It's not like the Spore and powder immunity is particularly huge for a Rain team -and Ludicolo already exists anyway. Sand teams might appreciate the new Heliolisk -but you don't see Sand Veil Heliolisk even though Solar Power and Dry Skin Heliolisk both pop up because Sand Veil is just a tiny, unreliable boost compared to the amazing stuff you can do with Solar Power in Sun and Dry Skin in Rain, so I'm not convinced. Maybe if it had Sand Rush it would be a big deal, but it doesn't.

 

[Cookie Butter]

Tyrantrum is literally the only Pokemon with Rock Head who doesn't get Double Edge, which means Aerodactyl, Golem, Blue Striped Basculin, Aggron, Relicanth, Marowak, Rhydon (Not Rhyperior), Steelix, and Sudowoodo all have a free 120 BP Steel Physical move -which is pretty fantastic. Magic Guard Physical Clefable also replaces Meteor Mash with Double Edge, though Physical Clefable isn't much of a thing in the first place. The big winners here are Aggron (50% boost to its damage over Iron Head, generally too slow to get the Flinch on Iron Head anyway), Aerodactyl (Miss out on the Flinch though), and Steelix. (crazy STAB damage again)

Steelix is better off with Gyro Ball though.

 

[Ghoul King]

... Gyro Ball's maximum BP is 150, and it only gets that if the target is substantially faster than Steelix. (To be fair, 30 Speed is pretty awful, and then you can wipe EVs and IVs and take a Speed-lowering nature) Rock Head Steel Double Edge is king against anything that doesn't heavily outspeed it, and Gyro Ball is only a 25% improvement when it is at max power -and faster Pokemon tend to be more fragile in the first place. Aerodactyl (Or Mega Aerodactyl) is OHKOed either way, for instance. You can also get around Gyro Ball by just switching in a slower Pokemon if you have one, and thus wall a Pokemon that wouldn't be walled if its Steel move wasn't Gyro Ball and thus dependent on the enemy being much faster.

 

[canno]

The only issue I can see with Double-Edge Steelix is that you'll probably be running Rock Head over Sturdy or taking recoil, which makes Sturdy a completely pointless choice. Still I'd say its worth running Double-Edge and Rock Head over Gyro Ball + Sturdy, but ultimately it comes down to preference. It's neat that it's stronger than Sheer Force Iron Head though. Sheer Force is more useless now! (unless you're running Ice Fang)

Stomp is pretty bad, but it would be bad no matter what type we made it. At least Entei can get some use out of it, but it's only slightly better than Bulldoze. Also Rapidash would use Drill Run over Stomp, so really the only benefitors are Entei, Kingler (who has an 84 BP one with Sheer Force) and Zebstrika. Out of these only Entei is really relevant right now. Double-Edge being Steel-type is really neat, and it makes Fairy-typ cri every time. Dark-types with Double-Edge really appreciate it - Absol loves it because it can pop fairies that resist Knock Off now. Houndoom might too. Mega Metagross has stupidly powerful Double-Edges thanks to Tough Claws.

As for the Pokemon, I feel Pyroar got the short end of the stick. Boomburst is cute, as it gives it pseudo Flying STAB, but what does that even hit? Fire- and Flying- have redundant coverage - I guess it can hit Water-types for what is essentially a neutral base 93 Flying-type attack, but meh. It just has too much competition imho. Heliolisk is interesting. Grass / Electric is a cute typing. I'm still not clear on the flavor behind it - personally I would of preferred another typing, but it is a cute typing overall. Can't really rek water-types though like it used to, as Ice Beam is SE on it now. Sawsbuck I feel is too slow to be effective, and Girafarig is still shit, but that was always a stat problem not a type problem. Don't have any real strong opinions on these tbh.

 

[Ghoul King]

I forgot I can talk about moves, so...

Which entries for this week do you agree/disagree with? [Remember: Be to the point and decisive, no hate]

I actually loathed the winning Double Edge entry initially -the logic is really bizarre to me- but having done an analysis on its influence of the metagame I'm actually warming up to it, particularly since it gives Steelix something cool to play with. I like Steelix, and was really disappointed when it dawned on me that I never saw anybody use it on Showdown in any meta ever.

 

[MegaGallade]

Thanks for feedback on the entries! Votes are in!

Kecleon Dark +Pursuit (By Mantodea, The Reptile, the someone )

Porygon2 Electric/Psychic +Psyshock (By Mantodea, zerobreaker000 )

Porygon-Z Electric/Ghost +Confuse Ray, +Shadow Sneak, (And because Porygon2 gets it) +Psyshock (By zerobreaker000 )

Farfetch'd Fighting/Flying +Sacred Sword (By the someone )

Slash Steel (By Ghoul King , the someone )
Tri-Attack Electric (By The Reptile , the someone )
Hyper Beam Dark (By Ghoul King , zerobreaker000 )

Thanks to all that submitted!
And now...

New Pokemon/Moves for Submission

Pokemon

Ursaring

Wigglytuff

Zangoose

Spinda


Damaging moves

Giga Impact
Head Charge
Rock Climb

Status moves

Roar
Swords Dance
Shell Smash

Get submitting!

Thanks for the feedback on certain discussion points, here are the conclusive results:

• Should AbNormal allow changing the base stats/abilities of Normal-type Pokemon?
• Once we have retyped every normal type move/pokemon, we will begin changing the abilities/base stats of Pokemon and effects/damage of moves.
• How many Pokemon/Moves per week would you like? Would you prefer the normal 3 Pokemon and 3 moves or something else?
• From now on, it will be 4 Pokemon, 3 Damaging Moves and 3 Status Moves.
• What Normal-type Pokemon would you want to have it's type changed for another time?
• If you answered this, we will do your favorites soon!

Current discussion points:

• What Normal-type moves would you want to have it's type changed for another time?

 

[Ghoul King]

Giga Impact
Dragon type

Oddly enough, more Rock type Pokemon learn Giga Impact by level up than any other type after Normal.

Why: Giga Impact seems in line, broadly speaking, with Dragon Tail's knocking the enemy away with a large tail, and Dragon Tail is one of the only genuinely distinctive Dragon moves.

Head Charge
Defer

Why: Seriously, its Bouffalant's signature move. It should be STAB for Bouffalant.

Rock Climb
Bug type

Why: Because bugs scale walls quite well. (And because it's going to be rare to have the opportunity to re-type a move Bug)

Roar
Dragon type

Why: Same logic I gave for a Sound move before: HEAR ME ROAR FOR I AM DRAGON! I can easily see an argument for Dark, but I like Dragon typing just because Dragon Dance is literally the only Dragon Status move and that's never made much sense to me.

Swords Dance
Fighting type

Why: Because mastery of battle. I considered Steel type, but then I dexsearched and even though some prominent Swords Dance users are Steel type (Bisharp, Scizor) Steel types actually make up a tiny fraction of Swords Dance users, so that's not proof of a strong association.

Shell Smash
Rock type

Why: Because Rock is the only type that has strong associations with a shell to smash per se, and in fact the majority of Shell Smash users are part Rock.

Ursaring
Fairy type
+ (?)

Why: It's a cave-dweller with no particular elemental features, and I don't think it quite fits to Dark for all that Ursaring's rages are one of the main things that get referenced about it -among other points, its rages are defensive of cubs or because it was awoken or otherwise in some sense justified.

Moon theme! The moon goes with Fairies, for whatever reason, and Teddiursa is pretty cute too. It even already has Play Rough in its movepool.

Wigglytuff
Fairy type
+Moon Blast (Surprised it doesn't already learn it)

Why: Because even though I desperately want to make it not Clefable-but-different (I am so glad they made it Normal/Fairy to Clefable's pure Fairy), really can't justify any other typing without it being a huge stretch.

Zangoose
Dark/Fairy type
+Play Rough (Note that Zangoose already learns Night Slash)

Why: Because it's a vicious fighter who has an antagonistic relationship with a pure Poison type -and it's certainly not sensible for it to be part Grass. It would also make sense to me for Crush Claw to be a Dark move, flavor-wise, and it used to be Zangoose' signature move.

Spinda
Psychic type
+Psyshock

Why: An interesting facet of Pokemon is that not only is high intelligence associated with the Psychic type, but so too is "derpiness" (As in "I derped", not as in "derp mon"), for lack of a better word. Spinda is more derpy than it is elementally associated, though I could see an argument being made for it being Fairy type -I actually considered proposing Psychic/Fairy, but it's too far removed from Mr. Mime and Gardevoir, the existing Psychic/Fairies, for that to seem right to me. And Spinda actually learns a surprising number of Psychic moves anyway. In fact, when I was looking through moves to add to Spinda to fit its new Psychic typing, the only one I thought might fit that it didn't already have was Psyshock!

What Normal-type moves would you want to have it's type changed for another time?

Crush Claw, Wring Out, Spit Up.