Pokémon Absol

[DDRMaster]

Since Absol already has Swords Dance, it doesn't really need Scizor to pass it the boosts. And Scizor's not that great at taking out Fighting-types since it doesn't enjoy eating a Close Combat and Lucario actually resists both its STABs.

As far as getting rid of Fairies, though, Scizor is one of the best.

 

[sidakarya]

I use something similar but with Subpassing Gliscor, which checks a lot of things that threaten Absol (Fighting-types, Excadrill, etc.) Absol is an ideal pass recipient because it can't be phased out once it mega-evolves, and passing a Substitute helps it get in safely and possibly set up for free. Agility/Rock Polish works here too.

 

[bifoof]

Since Absol already has Swords Dance, it doesn't really need Scizor to pass it the boosts. And Scizor's not that great at taking out Fighting-types since it doesn't enjoy eating a Close Combat and Lucario actually resists both its STABs.

As far as getting rid of Fairies, though, Scizor is one of the best.

Absol just seems too frail to live long enough to get a swords dance off it seems wasteful, but mawile might be able to do it

 

[Impy]

Absol is too frail to sweep, you're not going to pull off a swords dance unless you magically send it in against something that can neither cripple nor kill it, which... isn't a lot. And even if you do, what's stopping them from sending in something with priority? Absol doesn't resist ANY priority attacks. Well, except shadow sneak, yay.

Absol is better off as a cleaner and anti-hazard. I've been using it on a dedicated stall team and it does much better. It's just fast enough to pop in and bounce back a t-wave or wisp, and do severe damage with pursuit when the opponent tries to bail. Pursuit/Magic Bounce is an excellent combo. There's still the issue of getting him mega-evo'd to take advantage of that speed later, but you can always lure something out with him then switch to a counter.

 

[Skyblade12]

Absol is too frail to sweep, you're not going to pull off a swords dance unless you magically send it in against something that can neither cripple nor kill it, which... isn't a lot. And even if you do, what's stopping them from sending in something with priority? Absol doesn't resist ANY priority attacks. Well, except shadow sneak, yay.

Sucker Punch isn't Priority anymore?

Absol is better off as a cleaner and anti-hazard. I've been using it on a dedicated stall team and it does much better. It's just fast enough to pop in and bounce back a t-wave or wisp, and do severe damage with pursuit when the opponent tries to bail. Pursuit/Magic Bounce is an excellent combo. There's still the issue of getting him mega-evo'd to take advantage of that speed later, but you can always lure something out with him then switch to a counter.

Pursuit and Magic Bounce may be good, but throw in Sucker Punch and you have a heaven for anyone who can predict well. Will the opponent fear the Sucker Punch and switch out? STAB Pursuit from one of the game's highest attacks. Is the opponent going to go for an attack, since it can't use status moves? STAB Sucker Punch, again from that incredible attack.

 

[Impy]

Sucker Punch isn't Priority anymore?

Whoops, forgot sucker punch.

Pursuit and Magic Bounce may be good, but throw in Sucker Punch and you have a heaven for anyone who can predict well. Will the opponent fear the Sucker Punch and switch out? STAB Pursuit from one of the game's highest attacks. Is the opponent going to go for an attack, since it can't use status moves? STAB Sucker Punch, again from that incredible attack.

Well, the same applies to pursuit. There's no sense in leaving a support pokemon in against Absol, so when the opponent goes to switch out, you can often just get rid of them. I guess it's all about what you want out of him.

 

[Skyblade12]

Well, the same applies to pursuit. There's no sense in leaving a support pokemon in against Absol, so when the opponent goes to switch out, you can often just get rid of them. I guess it's all about what you want out of him.

I understood that. Sorry if that last post wasn't clear. I was describing a dual Pursuit/Sucker Punch set. Both great STAB moves, and both keenly dependent on how your opponent would react to Mega-Absol's Ability. Anything that doesn't resist Dark will suffer under that sort of power, I think. But it is extremely heavily prediction based.

 

[Impy]

I understood that. Sorry if that last post wasn't clear. I was describing a dual Pursuit/Sucker Punch set. Both great STAB moves, and both keenly dependent on how your opponent would react to Mega-Absol's Ability. Anything that doesn't resist Dark will suffer under that sort of power, I think. But it is extremely heavily prediction based.

With the need to use protect to keep Absol from dying immediately after it evolves, he's got some serious 4MSS. Running two dark type moves isn't that efficient, but that's just me. I've been supplementing Pursuit with Play Rough and Fire Blast, at least until Superpower is available. Then I'll probably run that and Ice Beam.

 

[Skyblade12]

With the need to use protect to keep Absol from dying immediately after it evolves, he's got some serious 4MSS. Running two dark type moves isn't that efficient, but that's just me. I've been supplementing Pursuit with Play Rough and Fire Blast, at least until Superpower is available. Then I'll probably run that and Ice Beam.

Agreed, it's not that efficient. But fun, and extremely powerful if you're good enough at predicting.

You don't need Protect for the first turn, though. Sucker Punch is priority and will override the speed lock if you're trying to survive just that turn. If the opponent uses a status move, it's reflected, if they switch, nothing happens, and if they attack, you've already destroyed them.

 

[Impy]

Agreed, it's not that efficient. But fun, and extremely powerful if you're good enough at predicting.

You don't need Protect, though. Sucker Punch is priority and will override the speed lock.

I guess, but then you run the risk of not killing something, or wasting a precious PP on a switch. Why it only has base 5 PP is beyond me.

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

Absol is too frail to sweep, you're not going to pull off a swords dance unless you magically send it in against something that can neither cripple nor kill it, which... isn't a lot. And even if you do, what's stopping them from sending in something with priority? Absol doesn't resist ANY priority attacks. Well, except shadow sneak, yay.

Absol is better off as a cleaner and anti-hazard. I've been using it on a dedicated stall team and it does much better. It's just fast enough to pop in and bounce back a t-wave or wisp, and do severe damage with pursuit when the opponent tries to bail. Pursuit/Magic Bounce is an excellent combo. There's still the issue of getting him mega-evo'd to take advantage of that speed later, but you can always lure something out with him then switch to a counter.

Swords Dance Absol is a fantastic stallbreaker, so if you want to use Mega Absol as a stallbreaker, Swords Dance is your best bet. Sure, you could Pursuit that Trevenant/Gourgeist or whatever, but you could also Swords Dance and now nothing that's not a Fairy can take on Mega Absol (and even then, once the whole "shiny new toy" thing wears off, usage of some Fairies like Florges and Sylveon will inevitably decline and you can use team support to handle Fairies)

Also.... "Too frail to sweep"

I'm sorry but.... What? It might be harder for it to set up due to its frailty and relative lack of resistances, but that doesn't mean it can't. As you said, support Pokemon don't want to stay in on it, so that opens up some opportunities to SD up. Anything threatened by Sucker Punch will probably either switch out or try to avoid attacking it, so that's another opportunity to SD up. Swords Dance might not be Absol's best set, but it's certainly viable due to its sheer power and its ability to threaten stall.

"But what if they predict you to set up and attack you instead?"

Prediction goes both ways.

 

[Skyblade12]

"But what if they predict you to set up and attack you instead?"

Prediction goes both ways.

Also, if you're setting up on a Support Pokémon, can't Absol endure an attack? I know he's frail, but I don't think that he is THAT frail.

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

Also, if you're setting up on a Support Pokémon, can't Absol endure an attack? I know he's frail, but I don't think that he is THAT frail.

Support Pokemon do tend to be weaker, so probably. That was mostly intended for setting up on offensive Pokemon threatened by Sucker Punch, though.

 

[Impy]

Swords Dance Absol is a fantastic stallbreaker, so if you want to use Mega Absol as a stallbreaker, Swords Dance is your best bet. Sure, you could Pursuit that Trevenant/Gourgeist or whatever, but you could also Swords Dance and now nothing that's not a Fairy can take on Mega Absol (and even then, once the whole "shiny new toy" thing wears off, usage of some Fairies like Florges and Sylveon will inevitably decline and you can use team support to handle Fairies)

Also.... "Too frail to sweep"

I'm sorry but.... What? It might be harder for it to set up due to its frailty and relative lack of resistances, but that doesn't mean it can't. As you said, support Pokemon don't want to stay in on it, so that opens up some opportunities to SD up. Anything threatened by Sucker Punch will probably either switch out or try to avoid attacking it, so that's another opportunity to SD up. Swords Dance might not be Absol's best set, but it's certainly viable due to its sheer power and its ability to threaten stall.

"But what if they predict you to set up and attack you instead?"

Prediction goes both ways.

I don't think Absol can sweep reliably. It's all about Sucker Punch. The best users of priority are Mega Lucario, Scizor, and Azumarill. Sucker Punch doesn't do much to them, and they OHKO back, without fail. These pokemon are EVERYWHERE. Against everything else, Absol absolutely has to OHKO or it's dead, because it can't take a hit from anything, really, and it can't hold a Focus Sash. He sits in a pretty speed tier, but plenty of pokemon that can OHKO him sit in an even higher speed tier and are just as common.

If you are going to dedicate a mega slot to Absol, you should coddle it and let it sit in the wings until it's needed. It's the best user of Magic Bounce in the game, and it should be treated as a check and counter to hazards and support pokemon; in tandem with your hazards, it can force switches and rack up damage, and do massive damage to switch-ins. I won't deny that yes, it can smash down walls, but there are stronger, beefier wallbreakers in the game that don't use up a mega slot, so for the love of god use those instead and keep Absol alive doing what it does best.

It can shit on Talonflame though, so there's that. If you want to play him that way then okay, but I'm just speaking by my own experiences. I suck at sweeping with Absol but he's a great check to hazard pokes my team doesn't like. Nothing is quite as wonderful as popping in on a Ferrothorn trying to lay spikes and bouncing them back, then killing it with fire blast.

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

Here's why Absol can't sweep reliably, and shouldn't try. It's all about Sucker Punch. The best users of priority are Mega Lucario, Scizor, and Azumarill. Sucker Punch doesn't do much to them, and they OHKO back, without fail. These pokemon are EVERYWHERE. Against everything else, Absol absolutely has to OHKO or it's dead, because it can't take a hit from anything, really, and it can't hold a Focus Sash.

If you are going to dedicate a mega slot to Absol, you should coddle it and let it sit in the wings until it's needed. It's the best user of Magic Bounce in the game, and it should be treated as a check and counter to hazards and support pokemon; in tandem with your hazards, it can force switches and rack up damage. I won't deny that yes, it can smash down walls, but there are stronger, beefier wallbreakers in the game that don't use up a mega slot, so for the love of god use those instead and keep Absol alive doing what it does best.

Being "The best Magic Bouncer in the game" is debatable. Personally, if I really wanted to use a Pokemon explicitly for abusing Magic Bounce, I'd use Xatu. It can actually take hits and it doesn't take up a Mega slot. All Mega Absol really has over Xatu in this regard is not being weak to Pursuit.

Also, I really feel like you haven't used Swords Dance Absol. If you're actually trying to sweep with it when Mega Luke/Azumarill are still alive and healthy, you're a moron and should be shot. +2 Sucker Punch actually OHKOes 248/0 Scizor after Stealth Rock + like 3% prior damage, so that point is invalid. In fact, being the only Absol set that can reliably beat Scizor without predicting it to switch in so you can roast it with Fire Blast is nothing to sneeze at.

Also, quick question... How many of these "stronger, beefier wallbreakers" are IMMUNE TO ALL STATUS MOVES? Exactly. None of them. That alone gives Absol a niche over other wallbreakers.

 

[Impy]

Being "The best Magic Bouncer in the game" is debatable. Personally, if I really wanted to use a Pokemon explicitly for abusing Magic Bounce, I'd use Xatu. It can actually take hits and it doesn't take up a Mega slot. All Mega Absol really has over Xatu in this regard is not being weak to Pursuit.

Also, I really feel like you haven't used Swords Dance Absol. If you're actually trying to sweep with it when Mega Luke/Azumarill are still alive, you're a moron and should be shot. +2 Sucker Punch actually OHKOes 248/0 Scizor after Stealth Rock + like 3% prior damage, so that point is invalid. In fact, being the only Absol set that can reliably beat Scizor without predicting it to switch in so you can roast it with Fire Blast is nothing to sneeze at.

Also, quick question... How many of these "stronger, beefier wallbreakers" are IMMUNE TO ALL STATUS MOVES? Exactly. None of them. That alone gives Absol a niche over other wallbreakers.

If you say so, I just have rotten luck with that set, in contrast with using him as a cleaner and anti-support. Whatever floats I guess.

 

[Seraph's Fire]

Here's why Absol can't sweep reliably, and shouldn't try. It's all about Sucker Punch. The best users of priority are Mega Lucario, Scizor, and Azumarill. Sucker Punch doesn't do much to them, and they OHKO back, without fail.

+2 252 Atk Mega Absol Sucker Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 333-393 (106.3 - 125.5%)

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Absol: 244-288 (89.7 - 105.8%)

+2 252 Atk Mega Absol Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 207-243 (55.3 - 64.9%)

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Absol: 180-213 (66.1 - 78.3%)

+2 252 Atk Mega Absol Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Lucario: 188-222 (74.9 - 88.4%)

252+ Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Absol: 158-186 (58 - 68.3%)

252+ Atk Mega Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Absol: 157-185 (57.7 - 68%)

+2 Mega Absol beats all of them except Espeed Lucario, unless azu and luc go for stronger moves that can OHKO while they take one sucker punch.

 

[Impy]

+2 252 Atk Mega Absol Sucker Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 333-393 (106.3 - 125.5%)

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Absol: 244-288 (89.7 - 105.8%)

+2 252 Atk Mega Absol Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 207-243 (55.3 - 64.9%)

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Absol: 180-213 (66.1 - 78.3%)

+2 252 Atk Mega Absol Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Lucario: 188-222 (74.9 - 88.4%)

252+ Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Absol: 158-186 (58 - 68.3%)

252+ Atk Mega Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Absol: 157-185 (57.7 - 68%)

+2 Mega Absol beats all of them except Espeed Lucario, unless azu and luc go for stronger moves that can OHKO while they take one sucker punch.

I'm not playing my favorite pokemon very well. :S

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

+2 252 Atk Mega Absol Sucker Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 333-393 (106.3 - 125.5%)

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Absol: 244-288 (89.7 - 105.8%)

+2 252 Atk Mega Absol Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 207-243 (55.3 - 64.9%)

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Absol: 180-213 (66.1 - 78.3%)

+2 252 Atk Mega Absol Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Lucario: 188-222 (74.9 - 88.4%)

252+ Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Absol: 158-186 (58 - 68.3%)

252+ Atk Mega Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Absol: 157-185 (57.7 - 68%)

+2 Mega Absol beats all of them except Espeed Lucario, unless azu and luc go for stronger moves that can OHKO while they take one sucker punch.

Azumarill will probably go for Waterfall/Play Rough instead, both of which OHKO.

Also, what are you using for your calcs? I'm getting this for the Scizor calc:

+2 252 Atk Mega Absol Sucker Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 291-343 (84.8 - 100%)

 

[Seraph's Fire]

Azumarill will probably go for Waterfall/Play Rough instead, both of which OHKO.

Also, what are you using for your calcs? I'm getting this for the Scizor calc:

+2 252 Atk Mega Absol Sucker Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 291-343 (84.8 - 100%)

http://pokemonshowdown.com/damagecalc/

And I got the impression the guy was specifically talking about their priority. And there's the chance Absol will go for Play Rough, predicting the waterfall/play rough from azu or cc from luc.

+2 252 Atk Mega Absol Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Lucario: 283-333 (112.7 - 132.6%)

+2 252 Atk Mega Absol Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 310-365 (99.6 - 117.3%)

EDIT: Forgot HP EVs on azu.
+2 252 Atk Mega Absol Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 310-365 (82.8 - 97.5%)

Azu can check absol if sr isn't up and it's at full health, but that's awfully situational.

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

http://pokemonshowdown.com/damagecalc/

And I got the impression the guy was specifically talking about their priority. And there's the chance Absol will go for Play Rough, predicting the waterfall/play rough from azu or cc from luc.

+2 252 Atk Mega Absol Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Lucario: 283-333 (112.7 - 132.6%)

+2 252 Atk Mega Absol Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 310-365 (99.6 - 117.3%)

EDIT: Forgot HP EVs on azu.
+2 252 Atk Mega Absol Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 310-365 (82.8 - 97.5%)

Azu can check absol if sr isn't up and it's at full health, but that's awfully situational.

I'm using that same calc and getting different results for every calc you're doing. I'm using the same exact EVs/Natures/Stat boosts as you. What are you doing differently that is causing your damage calcs to be higher? Your damage calcs are reporting higher damage output with Naive Mega Absol than mine are with Naughty Mega Absol. Something's gotta be up. Can you give me a screenshot of your damage calc settings? That may help me figure it out.

 

[Seraph's Fire]

I'm using that same calc and getting different results for every calc you're doing. I'm using the same exact EVs/Natures/Stat boosts as you. What are you doing differently that is causing your damage calcs to be higher? Your damage calcs are reporting higher damage output with Naive Mega Absol than mine are with Naughty Mega Absol. Something's gotta be up. Can you give me a screenshot of your damage calc settings? That may help me figure it out.

I checked everything, and for some reason the defensive IVs were set lower. After fixing them, I get the same scizor calc as you. I have no idea why it was like that. My mistake. Mega Absol still has the odds in it's favor to beat all of those except azumarill, though, I think.

...Damn I feel like an idiot now for not noticing that.

 

[Skyblade12]

Man, everyone posting in this thread has an awesome avatar but me. :( LucaroarkZ and Impy have awesome Mega-Absol avatars. Vansalon has Lucina. sidakarya has Absol and Trainer. I need to find a good avatar.

Is there any way to get both Superpower and Play Rough? I don't think so, because I don't think that tutor moves can be passed on, but I figured it was worth asking.

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

Is there any way to get both Superpower and Play Rough? I don't think so, because I don't think that tutor moves can be passed on, but I figured it was worth asking.

There's not. At least, not until the obligatory third version which will probably have move tutors. But that doesn't exist yet, so...

 

[Skyblade12]

There's not. At least, not until the obligatory third version which will probably have move tutors. But that doesn't exist yet, so...

I was hoping they'd finally made Tutor moves breedable, like level up moves. Though I guess the only way to test that would be to try to breed Draco Meteor, at this point. Has anyone tried that?

So, which is better for Absol's Type Coverage? I'm thinking Rough Play at this point, with Fire Blast for Steels, but I'm not sure.