Hello, bigpostthatnobodyaskedforcole here. Recently, and very briefly, I held the top 3 spots on the ADV DOU ladder. As of posting I only hold the top 2 spots (more on that later) which is still pretty good. I wanted to do a big post before any tournaments because I think it is both cool and nice to share what's been working for me and what has not, and I don't want anyone thinking the peak of my teambuilding ability is my Salac Claydol sample.
2 teams that are good, then 1 team that is OK.
NoLuckNovember ### Lati Lax + Brokens (22-4)
Snorlax + Latias is my current favourite lead because of their combined ability to threaten everything in the tier. Choice Band Snorlax cleanly OHKOs max HP Metagross with Self-Destruct and Latias with Thunder Wave offers great super effective coverage and speed control. I went with pretty standard movesets for Metagross and Starmie, with HP Grass Zapdos because I am of the opinion you need a grass move for Swampert somewhere. The Gengar set is one I haven't seen anyone else using but I'm convinced it will become standard. Sleep is an OHKO, Destiny Bond is another OHKO, Ice Punch and Thunderbolt are great coverage and each have a 10% chance to OHKO. Powerful stuff.
- Snorlax is just Max Atk, Max Def
- Latias Survives a Meteor Mash from Choice Band Metagross, OHKOs 252 HP Gengar with Psychic, Outspeeds Jolly Metagross, and the rest is a SpD dump
- Metagross survives a Choice Band Snorlax Self-Destruct, Thunderbolt from Modest Zapdos is a guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers, and the remaining 12 EVs are put into Atk
- Gengar always 2HKOs Non-leftovers 4HP Zapdos with Ice Punch, Max speed, HP dump
- Starmie is a spread from Orre. I could lie and just change it to the one below, but this is what I peaked with so... Starmie survives a Thunderbolt from Modest Latios, outspeeds max speed base 110s (Gengar, Tauros), and the rest is a SpA dump. Mystic Water increases the range of Metagross you can always 2HKO with Hydro Pump from "its always at least a roll" to "up to 164 HP Metagross is always 2HKOd". Mystic Water also guarantees the OHKO on offensive Moltres and a few other similarly not-really-important-but-good-to-have damage rolls
- Zapdos outspeeds Jolly Tyranitar in case someone is wild enough to bring that, and is max HP with the rest in SpD. Lots of people use rain and fat SpD zap beats offensive Zaps
Stop the Music ### StarMeta + Brokens (25-3)
Yeah it's the same 6. I wanted to see how viable this was as a team building strategy and it worked out pretty well. Despite a better W/L I think I prefer the first team for ease of play. StarMeta has a lot of switching out or protecting turn 1 compared to the first team, and that probably worked out in my favour where it was harder for my opponents to predict what was coming in without team preview. In the lead position we go with a more offensive Metagross than the first team. I also made a Starmie spread for the correct tier and decided to go with a fatter while still speedy Gengar, and forego offensive investment.
- Metagross always survives an Earthquake from Adamant Choice Band Metagross/Salamence (worth knowing this is stronger than Jolly CB Dugtrio EQ) and survives 2 Thunderbolts from Modest Zapdos. Rest in Atk
- Starmie survives -0 Explosion from Gengar (and Timid Thunderbolt by extension), outspeeds 110s and remaining EVs in SpA
- Same lax
- Same Latias offense and Phys Def benchmarks, with a bit more speed to get past Modest Kingdra outside of rain and Adamant Heracross
- Gengar survives a Meteor Mash from Adamant Metagross (non CB) with Max speed
- Zapdos 2HKOs the bulky 244 HP 72 SpD sample Gengar (HP Grass IVs taken into account), outspeeds Jolly Tyranitar, with Max HP and SpD dump
I Timer Out ### SUNSHINE (27-6)
I deleted my post about Deoxys-Defense being broken because I didn't want to double post, but make no mistake, it is broken. It's obviously not unbeatable, and in fact in a game between this team and the other 2 teams I posted, I would always prefer the first two. DeoD makes the game pokemon solitaire, it simply follows the flowchart plays to the games conclusion. It is surprisingly good at doing this. The real threats to this team are Metagross getting a poorly timed attack boost, the opponent realizing they need to preserve Gengar, and crits. That's pretty much it. Due to the way Struggle works you don’t even always need to win the PP war as long as your opponent isn’t holding Leftovers. This team is just Deoxys and Safeguard slapped on with some good Pokemon. You could run a bulky HP Fire Starmie to threaten Gengar and Metagross. You could run Pursuit to trap Gengar. You could put a lot more effort into supporting Deo. I wanted to find out if Deo is broken and I learned that it is.
The other thing I learned while using this team is how good Tauros is. Bull good.
- Deoxys outspeeds Adamant Metagross
- Latias outspeeds base 100s to Safeguard Zapdos Thunder Waves (not that T wave is a big deal, I have swept with a paralyzed Deo), survives CB Metagross Meteor Mash, and SpA
- We've seen everything else here before, and Tauros is 252/252
So those are the teams! I hope you enjoy them or get some cool ideas
Another Tier list that nobody asked for
I've ordered these within their tiers unless stated otherwise. I would consider B- and above to be "viable" and maybe B+ and above the Pokemon to be "Good". If you're completely new I think B+ would be a good cutoff until you get a feel for the meta.
I don't think there's anything too controversial here. I might be a little higher on Starmie, Deoxys, and Gyarados than most and a little low on Charizard. Probably, most would rate Latias alongside Gengar and Metagross, but I think it is slightly but firmly worse. Certainly the ladder would contend that Clefable is at least B-. I'm pointing these out to give you the benefit of a second opinion without you having to go to the effort of actually going out and finding it. I don't think I'm wrong, at least at the moment, but no one ever does.
If you have any opinions on those ?R guys, or think I'm an idiot for ranking Slaking above Omastar or Marowak above Moltres, please let me know!
I don't really want to type out my explanation for each mon, but only because I feel that would be wasted effort. If you ask for clarification then I won't consider it a wasted effort anymore!
edit: I was wrong about
it seems, very cool Pokémon!