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Tournaments ADV World Cup - Format Discusion

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goldmason

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Hello everyone! Time to decide the format for this year.

Groups - every team is put in a group of 4 teams, and plays the other 3 teams over 3 weeks PL style

Pools - every slot plays 3 games over 3 weeks, every team plays every team

Note: This poll is non-binding. Final discretion will be up to the ADV mods, just gauging community opinion here.

Some other considerations/questions we had:
  • If we do groups, should ADV World Cup include Bo3 this year?
  • If you do not have eligibility for one of the regions in ADV World Cup, you cannot participate (e.g. Oceania last year).
  • Grandfathering from your team last year will be allowed.
  • Do we want to expand the number of slots (6) or number of subs (4)?

If you want to voice your opinion on any of the above, or any other considerations, please feel free to do so in this thread in the next 5 days. Manager signups will go up this Sunday.
 
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My only question regarding number of slots is why we don’t require an odd number of players? Having a situation that very often forces ties only seems to drag things out unnecessarily. Not sure if this has been discussed elsewhere but I remember it being kinda frustrating for us last year
 
goldmason said:
Hello everyone! Time to decide the format for this year.

Groups - every team is put in a group of 4 teams, and plays the other 3 teams over 3 weeks PL style

Pools - every slot plays 3 games over 3 weeks, every team plays every team

Note: This poll is non-binding. Final discretion will be up to the ADV mods, just gauging community opinion here.

Some other considerations/questions we had:
  • If we do groups, should ADV World Cup include Bo3 this year?
  • If you do not have eligibility for one of the regions in ADV World Cup, you cannot participate (e.g. Oceania last year).
  • Grandfathering from your team last year will be allowed.
  • Do we want to expand the number of slots (6) or number of subs (4)?

If you want to voice your opinion on any of the above, or any other considerations, please feel free to do so in this thread in the next 5 days. Manager signups will go up this Sunday.
Click to expand...
by grandfathering do you mean I can play for canada again :D
 
I like the inclusion of at least one bo3 slot, I prefer groups to pools as well. I like expanding player slots, I think getting more players is a good thing although the more we expand the more disparity there will be between regions with larger player bases and ones with few. Which might be a consideration
 
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Personally voting for groups.

One thing that would also be cool is a bo > 3. A bo5 for example would be a great way to allow more experimental teams to see the light of day, or to ensure hax plays a minimal a role in the outcome as possible. I personally would be open to as much as a b09, but I understand that may be a bit much for some players. If you don’t think you’d be willing/capable of prepping that much per week you can just not slot yourself there, but I think the option at least would be beneficial for the tournament
 
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Rainer24 said:
Personally voting for groups.

One thing that would also be cool is a bo > 3. A bo5 for example would be a great way to allow more experimental teams to see the light of day, or to ensure hax plays a minimal a role in the outcome as possible. I personally would be open to as much as a b09, but I understand that may be a bit much for some players. If you don’t think you’d be willing/capable of prepping that much per week you can just not slot yourself there, but I think the option at least would be beneficial for the tournament
Click to expand...
This tournament is not really the place for an experimental or expanded slot, but also as with all ADV forum tours gentleman's agreements are always allowed.
 
goldmason said:
If you do not have eligibility for one of the regions in ADV World Cup, you cannot participate
Click to expand...
I would feel pretty annoyed if I was locked out of participating due to geographical lottery. I'm trying to get my friend from Oceania to sign up for World Cups and it was a bit disheartening for her to get a "you can't take part because you're from Australia, sorry" in another recent WC.
 
I voted for groups. If only because it's just something different for a change.
A little more variety in all these World Cups would be very refreshing.
 
i wanna load 3 awful stalls without having to form an oceania team. i think i should be allowed to load 3 awful stalls without forming an oceania team. i was fixin to stall 3 times again this year for us west
 
I'd like to see the format remain as pools, as groups could mean the number of total teams would possibly get limited to 16, while more teams could participate in pools.
 
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magialice said:
i wanna load 3 awful stalls without having to form an oceania team. i think i should be allowed to load 3 awful stalls without forming an oceania team. i was fixin to stall 3 times again this year for us west
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It is unfortunate that you cannot participate if Oceania does not form, but it would be more unfortunate to remove someone from, for example, US West that cannot play because their spot was taken by someone from Oceania. I recommend you try to make Oceania form instead!

bydy said:
I would feel pretty annoyed if I was locked out of participating due to geographical lottery. I'm trying to get my friend from Oceania to sign up for World Cups and it was a bit disheartening for her to get a "you can't take part because you're from Australia, sorry" in another recent WC.
Click to expand...
Same thing here.

bydy said:
I'd like to see the format remain as pools, as groups could mean the number of total teams would possibly get limited to 16, while more teams could participate in pools.
Click to expand...
For what it's worth, with pools last year we only had 18 signups, so it would be comparable. Likely a European team would merge into Europe or something similar; depends on signups.
 
I'm in favour of groups. I think groups are a lot more exciting and easier to follow. You know your standing in the table and it likely gets very exciting on the last day of group stage to see who makes it. It also feels a lot more like a team competition if you play another team and need to "beat" them by playing better overall. With pools, you just play your games, then see how many wins your team got total and make it to the next round based on that. A minor issue is that someone can go 3-0 and not have any impact when the rest of the team performs slightly below average. With groups that means you go 0-3, with pools you have like a 50% wr and could maaybe qualify for playoffs. But that's not really all that negative, it's supposed to be a team tour and if the rest of the team doesn't perform you shouldn't advance, no matter your results. There are many single player tours for you to get results.

If we do go with groups, a minor concern could be that making playoffs is luck-dependent. As not every team has the same schedule, some might get easier opponents. To counteract this, I suggest implementing seeding if we do change to groups. You could use last year's results to decide seeding, for instance, which I think would make the schedule "fair enough" for everyone. It'll never be "completely" fair anyways as teams and players have ups and downs, if you get what I mean.

Regarding number of slots, I think there will always be two conflicts between two factors:
  • letting as many participate as possible vs diluting the skill level
  • giving smaller regions a chance vs letting the bigger regions profit from their squad depth (also prevents situations where many good players can't participate because there are even better players from their region)
So in my view it's really hard to make a definite argument for either side. What I do think would be way better is having an odd number of players to avoid needing an additional week for tiebreakers. Scheduling mess, takes away momentum from the tour, especially the teams that advance and don't have to play a tiebreaker. I'd stay close to the status quo and just upgrade to 7 players. Subs I don't really have an opinion on, seems about right.

Bo3 I'm in favour of, especially if we end up doing groups. Bo3 is usually played by the better players as they profit from having less variance in the game. This means that having bo3 slots creates an "artificial" player seeding. The good players face each other and the slightly less proficient players face each other, which makes competition a lot more even and exciting. This is good in general, to let everyone have close games, but especially if we do groups because it also counteracts slot cheesing. If you decide to slot one of your better players a bit lower to guarantee a win, it now comes at the cost of having that player play a bo1, whereas you'd likely want him to play a bo3. I wouldn't overdo it with the bo3 slots though, just so prep doesn't become too time consuming for each team. 1 or 2 slots seems fine.

To summarise:
  • In favour of groups, suggesting we implement seeding to guarantee group stage is fair
  • 7 starters and 4 subs
  • 2 bo3 slots and 5 bo1 slots
 
goldmason

Tournaments Thread 'ADV World Cup II - Manager Signups'

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Art by glitched​

Welcome to ADV World Cup II. This thread is for the signups for those who wish to manage in the tour. Information about the tournament can be found at the Announcements Thread here. Hosts for ADV World Cup are goldmason and ego.

Here is the sign-up format:
Code: 
Manager:
Assistant Manager:
Country:

Managers will be chosen based on experience in ADV tournaments, their level of involvement in the community and knowledge of the playerbase, their general competence, and...
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goldmason

Tournaments Thread 'ADV World Cup II - Player Signups'

PTD5ujffOQHTix1iVohlxg.png

Art by glitched​

Welcome to ADV World Cup II. Hosts for ADV World Cup are goldmason and ego. Discussion will take place in ADV Discord, be sure to join it!

In this tournament based (loosely this time) on Smogon's WCoP, you will rally up to fight alongside your countrymen for the glory of your nation and the coveted World Cup! The winning team will be awarded a team custom avatar, courtesy of PS admins! The format will be as follows:
  • ADV OU Bo3
  • ADV OU Bo3
  • ADV OU Bo3...
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goldmason

Tournaments Thread 'ADV World Cup II - Administrative Decisions'

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Art by glitched​

Welcome to ADV World Cup II. Hosts for ADV World Cup are goldmason and ego.

Manager Signups End: <t:1790567940:F>.

Player Signups End: <t:1790999940:F>.

Rosters Due: <t:1791086340:F>.

Group Stage will begin the following day, with a stream to announce pairings.
Group Stage will consist of groups of 4, with any team going 2-X or greater moving on to the bracket stage.

This tournament will feature 7 slots of ADV OU. 3 Slots will be Bo3 by default. You will be...
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