No OP made a point of mentioning both normal and mega aggron. So i separately made comments according to both forms.
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Pokémon Aggron
- Thread starter Shadowlucario64
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No OP made a point of mentioning both normal and mega aggron. So i separately made comments according to both forms.
Oh okay. The way you wrote it made it look like you were talking about Rock/Steel 'gron and Megaggron together, my bad.
For what it's worth I disagree about Megaggron though. >3> He can definitely be useful.
I think it's fair to say (by which I mean "almost certain") that if you want to use Aggron in any meaningful way in OU, the Aggronite isn't optional. Realistically, if your opponent is a decent player and has an Aggron on their OU team, it's 90% certain to be a Mega.
As for your assertion that Filter somehow doesn't count for anything, allow me to draw your attention back to this:
If you somehow think that Filter somehow "doesn't matter" when it enables it to avoid a 2HKO from a base 120 power STAB supereffective move coming from one of the tier's most terrifying sweepers, then I think you need to go and get your head checked.
Yeah maybe it can have useful ness with monster def and being full steel but i still feel most upper tier guys can handle it well enough. But given how registeel is used...
Difference is Registeel can't hit for shit. Also no filter. Also no phasing (not like Dragon Tail anyway).
What about Impish instead of Careful?
Aggron @ Aggronite
Impish
252 HP/252 SpD/4 Atk
Aggron's Defense reaches 545, while its Special Defense is still at 259. Its only 25 points less than Careful, but his defense is about 50 points higher. I mean, this Mega Aggron is supossed to take physical hits most of the time. These 25 points in SpD. are really relevant considering that most of the times Aggron is going to be switched into a physical move?
I'm not a super high level player, so I'm not the best source of information, but yeah if you are not using Aggron as your lead, you could probably do better with a bigger investment in Defense (such as Impish) because you'll know what he's getting himself into. Since he leads for me, he doesn't really get a choice of what he's up against, and pretty much no physicals can 1HKO him, and many have problems even 2HKO or 3HKOing him. But a lot of specials can, so I like every point of SpD I can get.
pretty good 'oh shi...' button against a lot of threats since so few things can OHKO this brute and I bet you a tenner he will be capable of OHKOing them in return between 140 Atk and an expansive physical movepool.
Fantastic emergency check to just about anything physical. This guy can even counter Swords Dance Garchomp in a pinch: +2 EQ doesn't OHKO 252/0 MegaAggron and +0 EQ deals about 36%. Aggron can retaliate with Ice Punch. Adamant +2 Talonflame does about 69% with Flare Blitz while Aggron can KO in return with a variety of attacks. Aegislash barely 2HKOs with absolute max Attack +2 Sacred Sword.
etc etc etc
I think Aggron is one of those Pokes that can just be highly customised to fit your needs and inserted into any team to shore up a handful of weaknesses. Depending on his moves he can counter/check soooooo many things, and if you're in need of support options he can lay SR, phaze, spread status etc.
Great Poke, wouldn't be surprised to see him in OU.
Fantastic emergency check to just about anything physical. This guy can even counter Swords Dance Garchomp in a pinch: +2 EQ doesn't OHKO 252/0 MegaAggron and +0 EQ deals about 36%. Aggron can retaliate with Ice Punch. Adamant +2 Talonflame does about 69% with Flare Blitz while Aggron can KO in return with a variety of attacks. Aegislash barely 2HKOs with absolute max Attack +2 Sacred Sword.
etc etc etc
I think Aggron is one of those Pokes that can just be highly customised to fit your needs and inserted into any team to shore up a handful of weaknesses. Depending on his moves he can counter/check soooooo many things, and if you're in need of support options he can lay SR, phaze, spread status etc.
Great Poke, wouldn't be surprised to see him in OU.
In fact, Swords Dance Garchomp needs a Life Orb to OHKO a completely uninvested, non-Defense-boosting nature, full-health Mega Aggron with a +2 Earthquake
+2 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Filter Mega Aggron: 234-276 (83.27 - 98.22%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
With an Impish nature, Mega Aggron has a (Very small) chance of surviving said Earthquake at full health. Remember - NO INVESTMENT at all, just a positive nature and Garchomp needs both Life Orb and SR to OHKO it
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 277-328 (98.57 - 116.72%) -- 93.75% chance to OHKO
Add some investment and it starts needing residual damage. Forget about OHKOing it if it's running Yache
Keeping with the examples, now adding 3 Attacks Gengar's Focus Blast:
+2 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Filter Mega Aggron: 234-276 (68.02 - 80.23%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Mega Aggron: 213-252 (61.91 - 73.25%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Mega Gengar Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Mega Aggron: 259-306 (75.29 - 88.95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Filter Mega Aggron: 207-244 (60.17 - 70.93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0+ SpD Filter Mega Aggron: 281-331 (81.68 - 96.22%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (18.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
252 SpA Life Orb Mega Gengar Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Filter Mega Aggron: 285-335 (82.84 - 97.38%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 190-225 (55.23 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Filter Mega Aggron: 308-363 (89.53 - 105.52%) -- 31.25% chance to OHKO (68.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
A Careful nature seems to be enough to significantly reduce KO chances from powerful, special coverage moves while still being an immovable object for physical attacks
Thanks for the calculation, one of them is odding me out a little though:
+2 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Filter Mega Aggron: 207-244 (60.17 - 70.93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 190-225 (55.23 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
How can a defense boosting nature and 252 evs only make such a little difference?
+2 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Filter Mega Aggron: 207-244 (60.17 - 70.93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 190-225 (55.23 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
How can a defense boosting nature and 252 evs only make such a little difference?
I'm not seeing anything particularly significant - a ~5% difference seems accurate as far as positive/neutral natures go:
+0 CALM 4 HP/252 DEF/252 SP.DEF Wigglytuff vs. +0 ADAMANT 252 ATK Gallade (Stone Edge): 109-129 (25.82 - 30.56%)
+0 BOLD 4 HP/252 DEF/252 SP.DEF Wigglytuff vs. +0 ADAMANT 252 ATK Gallade (Stone Edge): 100-118 (23.69 - 27.96%)
Similar results are present in other Pokemon, I think. Usually that ~5% difference is what distinguishes 2HKOs from 3HKOs, but, you know, take it with a grain of salt - it could be different for other Pokemon, too.
Although that is pretty noteworthy; if there is no meaningful difference between the kind of hits MegaAggron can take with a positive defense-boosting nature, does that mean he is always better off with Adamant/Brave? Or should we be doing a bunch of damage calculations for how well he takes Special hits?
+0 CALM 4 HP/252 DEF/252 SP.DEF Wigglytuff vs. +0 ADAMANT 252 ATK Gallade (Stone Edge): 109-129 (25.82 - 30.56%)
+0 BOLD 4 HP/252 DEF/252 SP.DEF Wigglytuff vs. +0 ADAMANT 252 ATK Gallade (Stone Edge): 100-118 (23.69 - 27.96%)
Similar results are present in other Pokemon, I think. Usually that ~5% difference is what distinguishes 2HKOs from 3HKOs, but, you know, take it with a grain of salt - it could be different for other Pokemon, too.
Although that is pretty noteworthy; if there is no meaningful difference between the kind of hits MegaAggron can take with a positive defense-boosting nature, does that mean he is always better off with Adamant/Brave? Or should we be doing a bunch of damage calculations for how well he takes Special hits?
If you had a WishPass Blissey or Sylveon leading, you could give MegaAggron a turn to use Iron Defense, and you'd lure out physical attackers. At +2 252 HP/252 Def+ MegaAggron's bulk becomes hilarious. +2 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake is a guarenteed 4HKO.
A nature boost is 10% so it is percentage based. then you have the EVs which can increase any stat by 63. this is a big increase for, say, Blissey's defense stat, since 63 is such a large percentage of the final number. You're damn-near doubling it on EVs alone. but with Aggron, the final stat at level 100 is such a big number that 63 points, relatively, makes little difference.
Its like adding a 10 gallons of water to your bathtub versus 10 gallons of water to your swimming pool.
Given that, you still wanna max HP and probably use the nature boost since 10% of Aggron's defense stat is a BIG number. but put those other EVs elsewhere.
I think there's not a huge difference between use Impish or Careful if the matter is to take in the strongest Physical/Special attacks in the game. Mega Aggron will perish by 2HKO of powerful users of super effective moves like Earthquake or Flamethrower, and i don't see most of them turning from 2hko into 3hko depending on the nature.
The real task is not to switch every time into this type of super-effective-hyper-powerful-moves; if we're looking for Mega Aggron's survivability then most of time we'll have to switch into another powerful but not so damaging type of moves, mostly physical, so that's the reason why we prefer a physical bulk than a special one.
This is only my opinion, naturally!
The real task is not to switch every time into this type of super-effective-hyper-powerful-moves; if we're looking for Mega Aggron's survivability then most of time we'll have to switch into another powerful but not so damaging type of moves, mostly physical, so that's the reason why we prefer a physical bulk than a special one.
This is only my opinion, naturally!
Looking at all those numbers, I'm more convinced that picking Adamant for my Aggron was the way to go, though I'd argue Careful nature would be fine too for a more mixed wall/tank. I just want mine to abuse that 140 base attack stat a little more. My only problem was EV distribution, not being sure whether I should invest into defense or not, but with such a larg defense, even unboosted by nature, it shouldn't make a big difference. I'll more than likely have my Aggron go 128 HP, 252 Atk, and 128 Sp. Def.
Metal Burst is also an option but you'll probably find that you're capable of KO'ing the opponent through conventional means. Sure, you could Counter Terrakion's Close Combat...or you could just KO with your STAB move. You could Counter Garchomp's Earthquake...or you could just Ice Punch him.
etc
etc
for the sake of having 4 move slots it's not necessarily a bad option though if you want to run let's say rest or carry attacking moves for different types or say hey, I can wreck all physical attackers with 1 move and do something else with the other 3 slots that can make me more annoying/threatening
aggron almost never uses leftovers, and this mega evolution just corrects all of aggrons original problems, this mega evo is incredible for physical tanking who doesn't have that bad of spD if u go specially defensive, as well as very good attack with iron head/heavy slam STAB, just incredible.
I am using Adamant with 252 in SpDef but I still can't decide whether to do 252 in HP or in Att. Both have their merits.
I might be going to say something extremely noobish, but I was under the impression everyone suggested investing max evs in HP before touching either Defense or Special Defense.
EDIT: Btw I was wondering if power up punch is worth it. Thinking of a 252 HP 252 Att +Def Aggron with:
Iron head
Dragon Tail
Earthquake
Stone edge / Power up punch / Thunder Wave
Is StoneQuake combo worth it considering we're running Iron head anyway and we don't have stab on that rock type anymore?
What do you guys think?
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I'm gonna run:
Iron Head
Power Up Punch
Thunder Wave
Dragontail
He is a threat already even without earthquake, My way to deal with fire types is to T.Wave them and Dragon Tail.
The only problem I think would be Charizard Y Drought Fireblast, which a back up Tyrannitar assault vest can handle with ease. Of course Burn is always a problem so Heal Bell would be good. MegaAggron./Sylveon/Tyrannnitar/Gastrodon or Rotom W for WoW support.
Iron Head
Power Up Punch
Thunder Wave
Dragontail
He is a threat already even without earthquake, My way to deal with fire types is to T.Wave them and Dragon Tail.
The only problem I think would be Charizard Y Drought Fireblast, which a back up Tyrannitar assault vest can handle with ease. Of course Burn is always a problem so Heal Bell would be good. MegaAggron./Sylveon/Tyrannnitar/Gastrodon or Rotom W for WoW support.
I'm using full specially defensive florges for special threats, as well as passing wish to Mega Aggron, since it has no recovery otherwise.
Good suggestion, aromatherapy+wish through level up will save a lot of time. Though I might build mine with def instead since Steel sweepers are more rampant than poison because of MegaMawile and Kiefki.
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