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Almost Any Ability ORAS

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Well, I'm a little new to the forums, but have some experience in AAA, and would like to post a Marowak set I've found to be effective at wallbreaking.

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Marowak @ Thick Club
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 220 Atk / 36 SpD
Careful Nature
- Bonemerang
- Smack Down
- Power-Up Punch
- Aerial Ace

This set is able to effectively 2HKO PH Cress (Unless it carries protect), with a ~80% chance to do so. Calcs below.

220 Atk Thick Club Technician Marowak Bonemerang (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 152+ Def Cresselia: 236-278 (53.1 - 62.6%) -- approx. 82% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal

220 Atk Thick Club Technician Marowak Bonemerang (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 218-258 (59.8 - 70.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Magnezone Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 36+ SpD Marowak: 138-164 (42.5 - 50.6%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 36+ SpD Marowak: 231-274 (71.2 - 84.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

220 Atk Thick Club Technician Marowak Bonemerang (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 456-536 (64.7 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The special defense is for surviving the 2 HP Ices from Choice Scarf Magnezone so you can Smack Down away Levitate and then hit with Bonemerang.

With wish support, this little wallbreaking beast can tank hits and score OHKOs and 2HKOs on most walls in the tier.
 
So I was teambuilding for a tour just now and I added Spiritomb on my team because I needed a ghost and it seemed decent. Eventually it put in a LOT of work and became the MVP of the match. http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/almostanyability-173102523

442Spiritomb_Dream.png

Spiritomb @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Curse
- Protect
- Will-O-Wisp
- Foul Play

Basically this set abuses Curse to get a lot of residual damage on the opponent. Poison Heal allows it to recover a lot of health back itself so it isn't that crippled by the damage Curse does and Protect helps that so you can get 25% back after using Curse. Will-O-Wisp is in general a nice move that helps against physical attackers and stacks up the residual damage. The attack drop from Will-O-Wisp luckily doesn't affect Foul Play. That said Foul Play is a reliable move that does a decent amount of damage against offensive threats. The best thing is that you need no investment so you can stay as bulky as you want while still have a decent damage output. While I haven't used it a lot yet, I thought it was worth mentioning considering how well it did and I can see it doing really well as a Stallbreaker. Most stall teams can barely touch it and hate the extra residual damage. It's not deathweight against offense either because of Will-o-Wisp and Foul Play which offense hates and Curse is still useful, but they usually have more offensive pressure so you might find it dying too quickly. So be careful when using it. Magic Guard obviously stops this cold unless you're using Magic Guard Golurk or something that is hit incredibly hard by Foul Play. It is also annoyed by Skill Swap so be careful around opponents which might carry it as you don't want to let this die if not needed. Nonetheless I feel like it's a good new threat and maybe you guys could test it sometime too. :o
 
Wow! It appears we are getting a whole lot of new stuff, how do you all think this will affect aaa? I want to try out all of the new megas and greninja- with protean banned Greninja is unique in that aspect again, and funk shot is a pretty cool move to bust open physical walls. With other stuff like night slash, waterfall, and low kick, fully physical greninja might even be viable!

I don't have a lot of confidence in it, but I do have to try out Pangoro. Too good of a movepool now to ignore. Maybe a poison heal/bulk up set?
 
Here's a somewhat gimmick set that has gotten me many surprise KOs in AAA, SF + LO Blissey.
Blissey (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Def
Modest Nature
- Ice Beam
- Flamethrower
- Thunderbolt / Focus Blast / Psychic
- Soft-Boiled
This forces so many switches into bulky Steels, who get wrecked by FB / Flamethrower. More info later!
 
Panda Monium said:
Here's a somewhat gimmick set that has gotten me many surprise KOs in AAA, SF + LO Blissey.
Blissey (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Def
Modest Nature
- Ice Beam
- Flamethrower
- Thunderbolt / Focus Blast / Psychic
- Soft-Boiled
This forces so many switches into bulky Steels, who get wrecked by FB / Flamethrower. More info later!
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252 hp is probably not the most optimal choice for evs, go for either 252 def or Sdef
 
I've been testing stall recently, and I think I've found a pretty interesting set:

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Azumarill @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Toxic
- Seismic Toss
- Protect

Incredible typing. If it had reliable recovery, this thing could quickly become one of the greatest defensive threats. Unfortunately, no reliable recovery and 100/80/80 bulk (while pretty good, is still lacking) are holding it back. Aside from that, it counters/hard checks:
- Victini
- Zapdos
- Entei
- Blaziken
- Thundurus
- Megados
- Raikou
- Rotom-Wash/Heat/Fan/Normal/Frost
- Conkeldurr
- Mega Manectric
Note that this is one of the few pokemon in existance (or only) to completely wall mixed Thundy-I, physical Thundy-I, and special Thundy-I, all in the same set. Just felt like mentioning this, since it performs extremely well on my team, and no guard zapdos + thundy + victini in general give stall teams a very hard time.

plus azumarill's cuteness distracts your opponents from clicking correctly
 
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I've been playing around with offensive Skarmory and it's surprisingly not that bad.

skarmory.gif

Skarmory @ Sky Plate
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 232 HP / 252 Atk / 24 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Iron Head

Gale Wings Skarmory isn't uncommon, but it's usually seen in a more defensive role with Defog and Roost. Base 80 attack might seem too low - especially when there's things like Staraptor, Braviary, and Honchkrow to abuse Gale Wings - but it's only 1 lower than Talonflame (and we've all seen how hard that can hit).

With its great bulk and typing (and the fact that people expect more defensive/supportive sets) it's pretty easy to find an opportunity to set up a Swords Dance and start firing off Brave Birds. Iron Head is to hit Rock types and to beat Chansey without killing yourself with recoil.

252+ Atk Sky Plate Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 28 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 282-333 (105.2 - 124.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Sky Plate Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Lucario: 249-294 (88.6 - 104.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Sky Plate Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 225-265 (74.5 - 87.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252+ Atk Sky Plate Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 408-480 (126.3 - 148.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Sky Plate Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Entei: 424-499 (114.2 - 134.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Sky Plate Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 390-459 (109.2 - 128.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Sky Plate Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 248-292 (82.9 - 97.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Sky Plate Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 186-219 (68.3 - 80.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252+ Atk Sky Plate Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 373-439 (92.3 - 108.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Sky Plate Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 244-288 (60.3 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Sky Plate Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 177-209 (45.9 - 54.2%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Obviously, it still loses to stuff like Zapdos, Magnezone, and Unaware, but if you can get them out of the way it's pretty effective. Definitely worth trying out if you want a birdspam check/abuser in one team slot.
 
w0rd said:
I've been playing around with offensive Skarmory and it's surprisingly not that bad.

skarmory.gif

Skarmory @ Sky Plate
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 232 HP / 252 Atk / 24 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Iron Head

Gale Wings Skarmory isn't uncommon, but it's usually seen in a more defensive role with Defog and Roost. Base 80 attack might seem too low - especially when there's things like Staraptor, Braviary, and Honchkrow to abuse Gale Wings - but it's only 1 lower than Talonflame (and we've all seen how hard that can hit).

With its great bulk and typing (and the fact that people expect more defensive/supportive sets) it's pretty easy to find an opportunity to set up a Swords Dance and start firing off Brave Birds. Iron Head is to hit Rock types and to beat Chansey without killing yourself with recoil.

252+ Atk Sky Plate Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 28 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 282-333 (105.2 - 124.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Sky Plate Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Lucario: 249-294 (88.6 - 104.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Sky Plate Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 225-265 (74.5 - 87.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252+ Atk Sky Plate Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 408-480 (126.3 - 148.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Sky Plate Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Entei: 424-499 (114.2 - 134.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Sky Plate Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 390-459 (109.2 - 128.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Sky Plate Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 248-292 (82.9 - 97.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Sky Plate Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 186-219 (68.3 - 80.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252+ Atk Sky Plate Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 373-439 (92.3 - 108.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Sky Plate Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 244-288 (60.3 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Sky Plate Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 177-209 (45.9 - 54.2%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Obviously, it still loses to stuff like Zapdos, Magnezone, and Unaware, but if you can get them out of the way it's pretty effective. Definitely worth trying out if you want a birdspam check/abuser in one team slot.
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Anchorman-Im-not-even-mad.png
 
w0rd said:
I've been playing around with offensive Skarmory and it's surprisingly not that bad.

skarmory.gif

Skarmory @ Sky Plate
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 232 HP / 252 Atk / 24 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Iron Head

Gale Wings Skarmory isn't uncommon, but it's usually seen in a more defensive role with Defog and Roost. Base 80 attack might seem too low - especially when there's things like Staraptor, Braviary, and Honchkrow to abuse Gale Wings - but it's only 1 lower than Talonflame (and we've all seen how hard that can hit).

With its great bulk and typing (and the fact that people expect more defensive/supportive sets) it's pretty easy to find an opportunity to set up a Swords Dance and start firing off Brave Birds. Iron Head is to hit Rock types and to beat Chansey without killing yourself with recoil.

252+ Atk Sky Plate Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 28 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 282-333 (105.2 - 124.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Sky Plate Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Lucario: 249-294 (88.6 - 104.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Sky Plate Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 225-265 (74.5 - 87.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252+ Atk Sky Plate Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 408-480 (126.3 - 148.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Sky Plate Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Entei: 424-499 (114.2 - 134.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Sky Plate Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 390-459 (109.2 - 128.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Sky Plate Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 248-292 (82.9 - 97.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Sky Plate Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 186-219 (68.3 - 80.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252+ Atk Sky Plate Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 373-439 (92.3 - 108.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Sky Plate Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 244-288 (60.3 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Sky Plate Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 177-209 (45.9 - 54.2%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Obviously, it still loses to stuff like Zapdos, Magnezone, and Unaware, but if you can get them out of the way it's pretty effective. Definitely worth trying out if you want a birdspam check/abuser in one team slot.
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>not Weak Armor Sash Double Dance
I'm disappointed.
 
Wow! It appears we are getting a whole lot of new stuff, how do you all think this will affect aaa? I want to try out all of the new megas and greninja- with protean banned Greninja is unique in that aspect again, and funk shot is a pretty cool move to bust open physical walls. With other stuff like night slash, waterfall, and low kick, fully physical greninja might even be viable!

I don't have a lot of confidence in it, but I do have to try out Pangoro. Too good of a movepool now to ignore. Maybe a poison heal/bulk up set?
Click to expand...


Sadly pangoro has a terrible attacking movepool. Its best fighting stab is hammer arm and the only good dark move is crunch. No pursuit, no sucker punch, no knock off. I was going to try scarf regen panda for the parting shot spam untill I looked at the other moves it got.
 
TheCommadore said:
Sadly pangoro has a terrible attacking movepool. Its best fighting stab is hammer arm and the only good dark move is crunch. No pursuit, no sucker punch, no knock off. I was going to try scarf regen panda for the parting shot spam untill I looked at the other moves it got.
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Actually...
Pangoro gets Gunk Shot, Knock Off, Drain Punch, Superpower, and the elemental Punches via ORAS move tutors.
 
So I'm talking Hydreigon right now

Hydreigon @ LO
Mega Launcher
Modest/Timid Nature
Dragon Pulse
Dark Pulse
filler
filler

Basically Mega Launcher is better than Adaptability for Hydreigon

Hydreigon @ LO
Sheer Force
Dark Pulse
Fire Blast
Flash Cannon/filler
Draco Meteor/filler

Basically the set above with lower powered stabs but better coverage
 
w0rd said:
I've been playing around with offensive Skarmory and it's surprisingly not that bad.

skarmory.gif

Skarmory @ Sky Plate
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 232 HP / 252 Atk / 24 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Iron Head

Gale Wings Skarmory isn't uncommon, but it's usually seen in a more defensive role with Defog and Roost. Base 80 attack might seem too low - especially when there's things like Staraptor, Braviary, and Honchkrow to abuse Gale Wings - but it's only 1 lower than Talonflame (and we've all seen how hard that can hit).

With its great bulk and typing (and the fact that people expect more defensive/supportive sets) it's pretty easy to find an opportunity to set up a Swords Dance and start firing off Brave Birds. Iron Head is to hit Rock types and to beat Chansey without killing yourself with recoil.

252+ Atk Sky Plate Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 28 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 282-333 (105.2 - 124.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Sky Plate Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Lucario: 249-294 (88.6 - 104.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Sky Plate Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 225-265 (74.5 - 87.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252+ Atk Sky Plate Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 408-480 (126.3 - 148.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Sky Plate Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Entei: 424-499 (114.2 - 134.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Sky Plate Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 390-459 (109.2 - 128.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Sky Plate Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 248-292 (82.9 - 97.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Sky Plate Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 186-219 (68.3 - 80.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252+ Atk Sky Plate Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 373-439 (92.3 - 108.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Sky Plate Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 244-288 (60.3 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Sky Plate Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 177-209 (45.9 - 54.2%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Obviously, it still loses to stuff like Zapdos, Magnezone, and Unaware, but if you can get them out of the way it's pretty effective. Definitely worth trying out if you want a birdspam check/abuser in one team slot.
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I've always had trouble using Gale Wings to be honest. I have played stall so much that anything offense without any bulk is something i have difficulty using. Instead, whenever I do use Staraptor and friends, I tend to use Magic Guard to prevent recoil damage. It is more like I don't feel right doing so: I like all my Pokemon living for eternity, which sadly never happens. To be honest, it is easier for me to run stall then offense. I have used birdspam in certain other metas, but not on the main server. When I do use birdspam, it has wish support for some reason. Basically, you can give me the most offensive team archetype and I end up making it stall. It seems to be an addiction.
 
Has anybody ever thought of banning unaware suicune? Thats the biggest threat in this metagame IMO. I find myself making teams specifically around beating it
 
FutureDoc said:
Has anybody ever thought of banning unaware suicune? Thats the biggest threat in this metagame IMO. I find myself making teams specifically around beating it
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Water Absorb users wall it, and Unaware Celebi does an exceptionally good job at dealing with it, among other things. Something with a powerful physical electric attack can also take it down. You can also trick it a choice item if you're desperate, and Banded Gale Wings Braviary does a respectable chunk.
 
Pikachuun said:
Water Absorb users wall it, and Unaware Celebi does an exceptionally good job at dealing with it, among other things. Something with a powerful physical electric attack can also take it down. You can also trick it a choice item if you're desperate, and Banded Gale Wings Braviary does a respectable chunk.
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Yeah, too many stops to Unaware Crocune for it to be ban worthy. Although I wouldn't exactly Choice Band Braviary a counter to it. It can't switch in at all. Isn't that a requirement for a counter?

In my opinion the only thing ban worthy at the moment might be Bisharp: it completely destroys an entire playstyle, and has so few stops in general between all of its potential abilities that it might be able to destroy entire stall teams. Then again, this is written by a staller, so there is some bias. Although, I do have to say, it isn't a user that is broken, it is Knock Off in general in my opinion. It stops stall and offense alike.
 
NOCturnal Hunter said:
Yeah, too many stops to Unaware Crocune for it to be ban worthy. Although I wouldn't exactly Choice Band Braviary a counter to it. It can't switch in at all. Isn't that a requirement for a counter?
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I never said that Braviary is a counter to it, I just said it does a decent chunk with Brave Bird.
 
Suicune is far from banworthy. It's a lot better since Keldeo's ban because a lot of Keldeo's 'counters' countered Suicune too, but it's still not broken. More or less all kind of teams (except for stall, but a stall team lacking something for suicune is not a good stall team) have powerful Electric or Grass-type attacks to beat it with, and if you're really that worried about it just run Water Absorb / Storm Drain. That said, it's a very good pokemon that can sweep unprepared and/or weakened teams.

As for Bisharp, I don't think it's banworthy. Sure, it hits very hard and Adaptability STAB Knock Off as well as Sucker Punch is awesome, but offensive teams can deal with it quite easily by running Substitute on a faster pokemon (I did this succesfully with Deoxys-S), having faster pokemon that resist Sucker Punch (though you still need to watch out), or by using pokemon that outright resist all of its moves, such as Cobalion. To be honest I often find myself using Terrakion over Bisharp because it has better STAB coverage. I don't know about others, but I have adapted to Bisharp.

It does do heavy damage against stall though, and it might be banworthy simply because of that. I mean, I don't play stall a lot, but I can imagine that it's quite a threat.
 
GrimoireGod said:
Suicune is far from banworthy. It's a lot better since Keldeo's ban because a lot of Keldeo's 'counters' countered Suicune too, but it's still not broken. More or less all kind of teams (except for stall, but a stall team lacking something for suicune is not a good stall team) have powerful Electric or Grass-type attacks to beat it with, and if you're really that worried about it just run Water Absorb / Storm Drain. That said, it's a very good pokemon that can sweep unprepared and/or weakened teams.

As for Bisharp, I don't think it's banworthy. Sure, it hits very hard and Adaptability STAB Knock Off as well as Sucker Punch is awesome, but offensive teams can deal with it quite easily by running Substitute on a faster pokemon (I did this succesfully with Deoxys-S), having faster pokemon that resist Sucker Punch (though you still need to watch out), or by using pokemon that outright resist all of its moves, such as Cobalion. To be honest I often find myself using Terrakion over Bisharp because it has better STAB coverage. I don't know about others, but I have adapted to Bisharp.

It does do heavy damage against stall though, and it might be banworthy simply because of that. I mean, I don't play stall a lot, but I can imagine that it's quite a threat.
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I wholeheartedly agree with the first part of your statement. Regarding the second half, I did say I prefer stall over offense, so yeah there is a lot of bias from me. Also you have to realize that since offense has been recovering slowly from the ban on protean, stall is in higher demand and thus, stall is the majority of teams. Because of this, Bisharp is effectively evil to most players. Even offense dislikes their items gone! But again, this is from a staller, so there is some bias. It might not be broken, but I feel it should be at least nerfed. Again, if you ask an offensive player, he will say that it is not broken at all. If you ask a staller, he will say that it needs a quickban ASAP.
 
Yeah, there is a lot of bias. Bisharp is really influential, but its the same as crocune; there are just too many stops for it in the metagame. Bisharp rips apart a ton of teams, but really, it seems to keep the metagame in check and glues together would-be broken threats. Thats not an argument for not banning something however, so the real fact of the matter is that stall teams always should carry bisharp counters. While keldeo could just destroy its checks and counters with a different ability, bisharp really cannot do this. Will-o-wisp is the real universal stop to any bisharp set (besides some weird guts shit), and really, simply using something with a specific ability to stop it is no more centralizing than crocune.
 
xJownage said:
Yeah, there is a lot of bias. Bisharp is really influential, but its the same as crocune; there are just too many stops for it in the metagame. Bisharp rips apart a ton of teams, but really, it seems to keep the metagame in check and glues together would-be broken threats. Thats not an argument for not banning something however, so the real fact of the matter is that stall teams always should carry bisharp counters. While keldeo could just destroy its checks and counters with a different ability, bisharp really cannot do this. Will-o-wisp is the real universal stop to any bisharp set (besides some weird guts shit), and really, simply using something with a specific ability to stop it is no more centralizing than crocune.
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I did play all the time before Protean was banned....and ironically it seemed to be a bit more stable than it is for me now. Mainly because Protean could easily beat sweepers like Bisharp into submission. Now however, Bisharp is almost uncouterable for stall. While it is easy to stop with offense, offense is actually declining in popularity as new toys like the three new weathers are starting to shape a defensive metagame. But hey, at least Crocune could be stopped with my stall teams pretty easily. Bisharp, shoot, that is a whole different ballgame. Stall really doesn't have anything to stop Bisharp with at all, while Bisharp is easy to use against stall; it is effectively just point and click. Once you take out crucial pokemon that stop Bisharp, which is pretty easy, you might as well just give up. At least Crocune can be stopped fairly easily, with Unaware abuse and such. Bisharp is not that same style. You HAVE to run a pokemon completely dedicated to stopping it, and you still aren't guaranteed to win. But as I said, this is mainly for stall. Also while Will-o-wisp id good at taking down Bisharp, it is not reliable. They can easily have Heal Bell or Aromatherapy for all you know. The simple fact is that Bisharp puts so many teambuilding restrictions on stall. Not to mention there are already threats that stall has to be able to stop other than Bisharp. If that doesn't prove that it is centralizing, I don't know what can.
 
Bisharp is good but it can be easily removed from the opposing team. Knock off is easy to play around. If Bisharp had just a little more bulk then maybe it would be centralizing, but anything that faints to a technician Mach Punch isn't that huge of a problem.
 
Right now, I think that the only things potentially ban worthy is gale wings and extreme speed. I haven't played much for a few weeks so the meta might be different now, but when I laddered I was using either gale wings spam with 2 or 3 users of gale wings, or a team featuring banded tough claws dragonite and tough claws lucario. They, along with hazard support from the deos are kinda an autowin against most offensive teams, especially lucario who is an utter god. Not saying I want them to be banned, but I would be interested to see what the meta would be like without things spamming extremely powerful priority moves everywhere. This includes bisharp too I guess.
 
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