AAA Almost Any Ability Resources

We all obviously don't believe it's as strong of a threat as you do, since you believe it needs to be suspected. All of my teams tend to have an answer to any of it's sets, and it's never been a problem for me. While I'm just one person with my teams, if it was an S ranked Pokemon, I believe I would still feel fairly oppressed in building my teams to work around it, but I never did. Furthermore, with the banning of Zygarde, one of it's most prominent uses has been removed. It's still an amazing pokemon with great defensive stats and typing, but for me, this is why it's not S ranked.
Not nomming Fini to S, but I'm going to have to disagree with this kind of reasoning for something to not be S rank. Pokemon become S tier by excelling in a combination of two primary traits:

- how does the mon centralize/abuse the metagame around it (aka: what is its niche)?
- how effective is it at said niche?

Anecdotal experience like "I would feel fairly oppressed to work around it but I never did" doesn't address Fini's strengths in the meta, nor how good it is at those roles. It doesn't bring up Fini's amazing ability to...

1) Blanket check most of the metagame
2) Punish near every switch-in
3) Be versatile
3) Centralize the meta by adapting to metagame trends
Anecdotal experience also doesn't bring up Fini's effectiveness at said strengths:

1) For a blanket check with Ferrothorn-level defences, Fini is not easy to wear down with either regenerator or poison heal
2) Very complimentary dual stab with a burn chance, knock off, calm mind, taunt, haze, nature's madness, and whirlpool are all great options to punish or even eliminate common answers
3) Its wide variety of options are unpredictable enough to cripple a wide host of key threats
4) Fini's common sets can incorporate the previously mentioned tech options with little opportunity cost to them, meaning it can quickly and effectively adapt despite metagame trends

We should analyze points made like above and determine whether there is enough that undermines these qualities to hold it back from S, or not enough undermining so it could move up to S. This could be done with a combination of high-level play analysis and a little bit of theorycrafting.

Zygarde's ban is going to be meta-shifting for sure, but this doesn't detract from Fini's dominance as the premier bulky water type in the metagame. Sure the meta lost one thing it checked, but it still checks the majority of the meta like before. Fini is still the main comparison point of other water types, to the point that we actually have to justify to ourselves using a different water type over Fini if any other one is brought up (which is a testament to Fini's effectiveness in the metagame). Losing Zygarde doesn't change any of this, so it isn't really a reason to hold something back from S.
This "I don't have issues with Fini" has parallel situations in other metagames, notably OU, so I understand the sentiment. I'm hard pressed to find OU players that go "I have serious issues preparing for Lando-T", but its strengths in the OU tier and effectiveness at them are what pushed it into the S tier viability on OU VR. These points should be considered when approaching an S tier nomination, not the ones brought up in response to Quantum Tesseract.

On another note, this might have been unintentional but saying "we all obviously feel otherwise" comes across as antagonizing the nominator and being presumptuous. It doesn't add to the discussion and it's not a good look overall. I think you're doing fine work though, running a tier isn't easy at all and it's a lot of effort. So no hard feelings to anyone here, just wanted to chime in on the metagame discussion is all :]
 
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We all obviously don't believe it's as strong of a threat as you do, since you believe it needs to be suspected. All of my teams tend to have an answer to any of it's sets, and it's never been a problem for me. While I'm just one person with my teams, if it was an S ranked Pokemon, I believe I would still feel fairly oppressed in building my teams to work around it, but I never did. Furthermore, with the banning of Zygarde, one of it's most prominent uses has been removed. It's still an amazing pokemon with great defensive stats and typing, but for me, this is why it's not S ranked.
KuraiTenshi26 honestly said most of what I wanted to say, and better than I could have, but one other thing I object to is the idea that zygarde going is a downside for Fini. Honestly, Zygarde is as much upside as downside. Fini wasn't all that great of a zygarde check, since adapt ground moves do a number on it and Moonblast doesn't OHKO back.

Meanwhile, Zygarde was Tapu Fini's largest competition as a bulky Poison heal stallbreaker; I think Fini was better at the job for most purposes, but now it has no real competition. It's status immune, extremely difficult to wear down, and requires very little team support to come back from the brink of death, such as vs a crit, to go again thanks to how much it forces out and its very solid passive healing. It's also basically impossible to defensively answer; I've seen regenvest + unaware chansey, regenvest + desolate land Voclarona / heatran, Chansey + Heatran, unaware Alomomola + Regenvest uxie + magic Bounce chansey, volt absorb pex + mage, Prankster toxapex + Chansey... these options do slow down Fini, but even if you aren't the nature's madness set they aren't enough, and I ended up beating or bypassing those cores with fini as my breaker. I honestly haven't been saving replays for this, which should change, but I have a few anyway:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7almostanyability-762990402 Clean's Beta's entire team. Chansey went down before it could come out, but chansey isn't a real fini answer anyway.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7almostanyability-755295026 Beating SpD tran cleanly, although i ended up losign to scarf ice punch + Flyinium Landot.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7almostanyability-739972690 powers past ferrothorn + Mage + Zapdos despite opposing sun.
 
You guys definitely have good reasoning in general, and I don't speak for the council, I'll give my share of reasoning of voting it to stay at A+ .
First of all there is no denying it's an incredible mon right now or like forever, well A+ ranking is a testament to that.
You'll see, the dates on your replays date back to like May-June, which is basically pre-OMPL. This whole VR Update was done keeping in mind the recent surge in usages of various mons, which were like :
  • Nihilego (Water Absorb Sets boomed)
  • Bulu(Saw incredible usage, people would argue for Zygarde but in practice it has plenty other purposes like a great triage user, generally beating bulky waters, taunt + SD, Pixi, Tinted breaker)
  • Koko(Always was used much, but improved even more as buzz, zygarde became common)
  • Zera (Decent new offensive threat which has emerged)
  • Xurk (Kind of was slept on, but gained more popularity using surge surfer and moldy sets)
  • Naga(kinda)
These are the only ones I could think about for now, but you'll notice all of them have one thing in common they all basically just beat fini one way or another, while at the same time their inclusion in the team isnt to beat fini exclusively. I think you can see about others, but Nihilgo isnt to counter fini only. It excels at warding off volcarona, blace, noivern constantly, without getting mag pulled, at the same time Acid Spray sets fuck up most CM water sets even with HP ground sometimes.

It's not like we are hard-pressed against fini to keep it at like A+, but more-so right now(keyword actually) from my recent experience against any decently prepped team, fini will always perform well, but nothing mind blowing. But well who knows the meta might change and it can be S worthy.

tl;dr : Fini is just as good as it was, but the meta has kind of adapted to it recently. Also just saying stall shouldn't really lose to a taunt-CM fini, stall should have a way past against taunt + bulky set up in general.
 
Some nice sets I enjoyed using to ladder. Didn't really save any replays but I used them to get zygarde reqs, so they worked.

Azelf @ Focus Sash
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Fire Blast
- Explosion

Mold breaker fire blast is really nice with all the flash fire spam going around. Max spa to have an ohko chance on spdef-heavy ferrothorn. I find this more useful than knock off, you can find it baits explosion switch-ins deceptively well because they tend to be flash fire steel types.

Cofagrigus @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 220 HP / 244 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind / Protect
- Hex
- Will-O-Wisp
- Toxic Spikes

Surprised cofag isn't at least ranked yet. HP ev's give a poison heal number, enough speed is given to outspeed toxapex and doublade if you want (otherwise, dump the ev's into bulk). This set is at least rank-worthy imo, its niche over other pheal setup is being able to support the team with a ton of status. If you want to increase longevity then run protect > cm, but I feel such a set would be outclassed by stuff like pex and nihi.

Roserade @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes / Toxic Spikes
- Sleep Powder / Stun Spore
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb

Niche regen pivot but it can check pixi koko, regen fini, triage bulu, triage buzzwole, and more. Having access to sleep and spikes are big, I always felt like there weren't enough spike/tspike setters to choose from in this metagame but this is a setter that's worthwhile to explore. It has a nice movepool and the set could most probably be optimized, but it fits well in a lot of regen cores especially with a water type. I personally used suicune alongside this, but plenty of other fat waters like manaphy could work too.

Golisopod @ Life Orb
Ability: Triage
EVs: 48 HP / 252 Atk / 208 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Liquidation
- Leech Life
- Poison Jab

It's not really the triage concept that's new, but the speed creep is. People often throw their regenvest magearnas in front of this thing to nuke it with fleur and quad resist a leech life, or throw in their fini and fish for a burn. +2 golisopod can cleanly outspeed and ohko magearna and also ohko fini 70% of the time if they go for scald, 100% of the time if anything else. Really good to let other rain abusers run wild, I feel the rain archetype as a whole is underrated in AAA.

Mawile-Mega (F) @ Mawilite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 168 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Play Rough
- Knock Off / Substitute
- Sucker Punch

Fairy is a broken offensive type in AAA, I'm shocked I don't see this used at all. Mawile abuses that stupid fairy/dark coverage as usual, Levitate should be added to its list of viable abilities because it grants it free setup turns vs ground types that don't expect it, and free setup turns actually break this thing. If you're evil, you can run sub sd to destroy anybody who dares to eq you, just remember to stay pre-mega. Speed is for skarmory but can be reduced/increased to fit your team's needs.
 
How is it possible that you put 4 different abilities from kommo-o and none of them were triage? 1 belly drum and the lack of a ghost type on the opposing team is all it takes to win.

Also, pikachu with max attack, light ball, and galvanize as an ability with extreme speed should be at least c-. It kills so much at +2 priority

I think you should add a lot more unburden users to the tierlist. unburden with an electic/grassy/misty/psychic seed is pretty strong on a lot of pokemon. Not sure which ones are the best though

Heliolisk has a nice niche at countering all out attackers. Elecrify+lightning rod was something I used in sketchmons with Sceptile mega and I found a lot of sucess there, so I decided to try it with heliolisk here. It's not as good because heliolisk doesn't have a super high speed but it still works so heliolisk should be c-
 
What niche do Tyranitar and Nihilego have? They're ranked pretty high in the VR but I almost never see them when laddering.
 
What niche do Tyranitar and Nihilego have? They're ranked pretty high in the VR but I almost never see them when laddering.
Adaptability Ttar is an amazingly strong wall breaker and can trap stuff like Victini, and Nihilego is commonly seen specially defensive with Water Absorb as it can wall stuff like Fini, Volcarona, Golisopod, and more with its typing and great special bulk.
EDIT: The VR also lists Regenerator and Bulletproof for Ttar. I would assume Regenvest is a solid set but don't recall if I've ever seen it, and Bulletproof allows it to trap stuff like Zam and Gengar that rely on Focus Blast to kill it. Regen Nihilego is also listed which serves the same role as a specially defensive wall, trading increased longevity for a water immunity.
 
A set I've been running on Mew

Mew @ Mewnium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Thunderbolt / Taunt / Roost

Nasty Plot boosts Special Attack, Psychic is the main STAB which turns into Genesis Supernova with Mewnium Z. The Psychic Terrain it summons protects it from priority like Triage Buzzwole's Leech Life. Focus Blast OHKOes offensive Heatran, Ferrothorn and non-Bulletproof Tyranitar at +2. Thunderbolt hits Tapu Fini, Celesteela and Skarmory. If you don't need the coverage, you could go with Taunt to shut down Unaware Cresselia or Roost to heal. Beast Boost is the chosen ability, as after Mew gets a kill it boosts its Speed, letting you sweep. Compared to Manaphy, Mew's niche lies in its superior movepool and Genesis Supernova. If you want more bulk, you could run a spread of 108 HP / 252 SpA / 148 Spe with a Timid nature - this gives you the minimum amount of Speed for Beast Boost to boost Speed. You'll still outrun base 150s at +1.
 

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