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Following a [6 Implement , 3 DnI, 0 Abstain] vote, a 2 ability clause, similar to the one in BH, will be introduced to AAA. The reasoning for the introduction of this Ability Clause can be seen in my previous post that introduced the proposal (#115, specifically):
I wouldn't say that ability spam is completely broken, but rather can cause serious team constraints and match-up issues that generally make the metagame less appealing as a whole. For example, the possibility of GW spam (we know GW isn't broken individually) means that you can't only carry a check on more offensive teams, but rather a solid counter such as Skarmory or Zapdos that needs to be able to take on 3 or 4 Gale Wingers in a row without dying - failure to have something rock solid to take on GW usually means GW spam will destroy you. With an ability clause however, your options for dealing with Gale Wings would be significantly expanded.
Regenerator spam and PH spam (or both combined), while also not individually broken, leaves teams without significantly strong firepower helpless, in addition to making stall versus stall quite literally last forever.
In addition, after some talk in the council convo we've decided that instead of having a complex ban for Shedinja and Smeargle we would just ban Shedinja and Smeargle outright. They're not used that much to begin with, and if you think about it it was pretty silly and unfair that we had a complex ban for these two Pokemon all this time but none of the other suspects were given the same generous treatment. The banlist becomes more consistent this way, in a nutshell.
Thick Fat gastrodon is such an awesome wall; basically it beats fire spam, refrigerate thundy, and switches into pretty much all electric types with ease. Moveset is pretty self-explanatory; walls need recovery, scald is for walls, ice beam bops stuff like thundy and zygarde, although you can use clear smog if you've got too much skill to worry about scald not burning. Toxic is great for whittling down annoying threats, but again, if you're just that skilled, you could forgo it for earth power. Or HP Fire if you're like me and hate genesect that much.
252 Atk Life Orb Thundurus Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gastrodon: 143-169 (33.5 - 39.6%) -- 23.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Refrigerate Thundurus Frustration vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Thick Fat Gastrodon: 81-95 (19 - 22.3%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Thick Fat Gastrodon: 168-198 (39.4 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Thick Fat Gastrodon: 57-67 (13.3 - 15.7%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatran Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Thick Fat Gastrodon in Sun: 178-210 (41.7 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Alright yeah, this is kind of a boring set for some people, so here's something else for you people who hate stall:
PANDA (Pangoro) @ Life Orb
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Superpower
- Swords Dance
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab/Iron Head
POWER. (credit goes to motherlove for finding this but oh god this thing)
If it's not intimidate, multiscale, or unaware, nothing; yes, LITERALLY nothing; in the AAA meta avoids the OHKO from this thing at +2. I didn't think it would be too good when I first looked at it since its bulk leaves questions and its speed is terrible, but this thing has yet to disappoint. If you want a wallbreaker, this is as viable as they get.
Well let's look at the most viable intimidate/multiscale/unaware pokemon. Intimidate Hippowdon? Forced to whirlwind Pangoro out, taking 82% minimum. Ouch. Intimidate Mandibuzz? Pangoro could care less about that 4X resisted foul play as it SD's up and kills you - or just straight up nets the OHKO after rocks. Unaware suicune? That's not a switch in! Pangoro outspeeds and 2HKOs suicune with a Knock Off and a Superpower. In other words, it's basically a stall player's worst nightmare.
Oh, and not to mention, it's relatively easy to get a swords dance up. Pangoro's just has so much offensive pressure that it's almost always forcing switches.
The last slot is your choice; Poison Jab bops most fairy types while having a sweet poison chance, although Iron Head can be used if Diancie gets annoying.
Take a look at these calcs:
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Pangoro Superpower vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 376-445 (88.8 - 105.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock (Intimidate)
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Pangoro Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 347-409 (82.6 - 97.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (Intimidate)
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Pangoro Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 339-399 (89.2 - 105%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (Intimidate) (Chesnaught has the best shot at winning)
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Pangoro Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zapdos: 352-415 (91.6 - 108%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock (Intimidate)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Pangoro Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 472-555 (116.8 - 137.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO - Nice physical wall
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Pangoro Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Diancie: 387-458 (127.3 - 150.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Pangoro (Knock Off + Superpower) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 429-504 (106.1 - 124.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO - Unaware? Lol
252+ Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Pangoro Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 276-328 (85.7 - 101.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock - Is that a wall?
252+ Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Pangoro Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 374-439 (84.2 - 98.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock - "bulkiest mon in the tier"
Mega Sableye has the best chance, although stall doesn't even run that in AAA:
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Pangoro Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 239-282 (78.6 - 92.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
(if you think I'm overselling this thing, it should be noted that even the mimez quickly succumbed to PANDA)
Not to mention that it checks doublade and a bunch of other common threats. You think its bad on paper, but I can attest to how amazing it is. Pangoro is a fucking beast.
C at best? If it gets an attack off vs balance or offense, something is probably going to die. its also a good doublade check, which alone gives it a solid niche for offense, and literally can be slapped on HO to 6-0 stall teams with the support of the presence of a team around itself. I think B+, where it is on the viability, is fine for it, maybe A- if you want to push its effectiveness. I don't know how you say that Pangoro is a gimmicky stallbreaker, since if you say this you probably haven't used the Panda yet.
its because unlike pixie, and refridge, aerialate has 2 STAB abusers of it that destroy the meta, dragonite, and noivern both for espeed and boomburst respectively.
Let's not forget that pokemon like gyarados,aerodactly, and salamance and the legendary genies, who do not have reliable flying stab, and with it destroy the meta.
Let's not forget that pokemon like gyarados,aerodactly, and salamance and the legendary genies, who do not have reliable flying stab, and with it destroy the meta.
And, more importantly, Thundurus. I know its one of the legendary genies, but it deserves the mention because Aerilate Thundurus would flat out rape the entire meta with its power. A mixed set would be basically unwallable. Also lan-t aerilate explosion killswitch *sigh*
yeah weavile and mamo are gone (weavile not only bc of refridge but still) so fridge isn't broken and the only good pixi user is florges (look at the rest of them, so weak or gardevoir)
As for Pangoro, the calcs don't lie but I honestly don't see why I would use a slow wallbreaker with a less than favorable matchup against offense over a fast wallbreaker such as Thundurus, Gengar, Entei (kinda), etc.
As for Pangoro, the calcs don't lie but I honestly don't see why I would use a slow wallbreaker with a less than favorable matchup against offense over a fast wallbreaker such as Thundurus, Gengar, Entei (kinda), etc.
The main problem with those things is that stall often carries one or two answers to each of them. For example, stuff like PH Clefable/PH Diancie takes on refrigerate Thundy, AV Goodra/meloetta takes on sheer force thundy and gengar, and Entei kinda of hates flash fire pokemon. What's special about Pangoro is that, if it's not played stupidly, it can break any stall team. Pangoro is definitely far less effective v offense, but note that it can still almost always get a kill if it's in against something like zapdos or unboosted manaphy.
As for Pangoro, the calcs don't lie but I honestly don't see why I would use a slow wallbreaker with a less than favorable matchup against offense over a fast wallbreaker such as Thundurus, Gengar, Entei (kinda), etc.
Also notable is that none of those, or any other stallbreakers for that matter, have no switch-ins. Those mons all have checks and counters that stall teams use, and therefore need support to beat stall teams. Pangoro, on the other hand, literally needs zero support because it can 2hko everything stall teams use unboosted. Literally nothing switches in, and a handy immunity to psyshock allows it to get in pretty easily. Diancie is bopped by Iron Head. Stall pretty much has to invest in speed on something in order to prepare for this, and even at that, the pangoro user is unlikely to fall for the switch-in.
Dark stab with steel coverage is incredible enough vs stall, Bisharp showed us that back in the beginning, but with fighting stab that is very powerful to boot, this thing is really hard for stall to handle. The offense matchup isn't even that bad considering it gets a free kill if it gets off an attack. Its not going to put in a ton of work, but it certainly isn't deadweight.
Some short explanations:
Bisharp was banned due to being very powerful with Adaptabilty and Tough Claws, while also having some other sets like Flash Fire and Levitate to beat counters. Mamoswine was again broken due to Adaptability. Weavile had very good Refrigerate and Tough Claws sets. Terrakion was again broken due to Adaptability. Sturdy on Shedinja is overcentralizing and hard to play around. Regigigas, Archeops, Kyurem-B, and Slaking would be broken with a number of abilities lol. Smeargle with access to a better ability (mostly Prankster however) and every move in the game was too much. Prankster Taunt/status move such as sleep/GeoPass or QuiverPass/ShiftPass/hazards etc. was all too good. Keldeo was very good with Adaptability or Primordial Sea or even Motor Drive to go faster and wreck stuff. I may have missed some stuff/got something wrong, but that should give you a general idea of why it was broken.
Well, not being able to abuse Aerialate Boomburst does kinda suck.
Oh well, at least we get Adaptability Boomburst.
Nature: Modest, Item: Choice Specs
252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 Def
Ability: Adaptability
Boomburst
3 other friggn moves that you wont ever use
Say hello to damage incarnate. This pokemon can singlehandedly break through a majority of the metagame with the unholiness that is Adaptability Boomburst, the result being a base 280 power attack coming off of the equivalent of a fully invested Modest Mewtwo, which is 100% accurate and goes straight through subs. Most of the things that aren't straight up KO'd are 2HKO'd or just lose around 40% of their health, which is insane against some special walls. He doesn't have the pride of hitting ghosts well and doesn't have anything better for Chansey, which is only 3HKO'd if she's dumb enough to let you, but get the right switch and watch your opponents crumble. He also really needs Sticky Web and Rock support to truly be effective, so the Red Shell of Doom is a good partner for Damage. He sometimes isnt as effective as say Gengar or Latios, but being able to OHKO defensive Vaporeon with a special attack is just horrifying.
Standard PH Suicune, but with Roar and 8 Speed EVs. This allows it to speed creep opposing Suicunes and Roar them out first. Scald and Calm Mind are self-explanatory, Protect is for more scouting and more Poison Heal recovery, and Roar craps over opposing Suicunes and can even phase out some physical attackers! I'll provide some calcs later (currently on mobile), but I feel it can be real effective right now!
Standard PH Suicune, but with Roar and 8 Speed EVs. This allows it to speed creep opposing Suicunes and Roar them out first. Scald and Calm Mind are self-explanatory, Protect is for more scouting and more Poison Heal recovery, and Roar craps over opposing Suicunes and can even phase out some physical attackers! I'll provide some calcs later (currently on mobile), but I feel it can be real effective right now!
Standard PH Suicune, but with Roar and 8 Speed EVs. This allows it to speed creep opposing Suicunes and Roar them out first. Scald and Calm Mind are self-explanatory, Protect is for more scouting and more Poison Heal recovery, and Roar craps over opposing Suicunes and can even phase out some physical attackers! I'll provide some calcs later (currently on mobile), but I feel it can be real effective right now!
Pretty standard set, only really beats other opposing ph cune, as magic bounce doesn't care and unaware can keep coming in. but it is very threatening to teams that don't have specific counters.
Pretty standard set, only really beats other opposing ph cune, as magic bounce doesn't care and unaware can keep coming in. but it is very threatening to teams that don't have specific counters.
You are right about Magic Bounce and Unaware, but that's what teammates are for, right? :D
Anyways, it is still a very potent sweeper late game, its phsycial bulk is godly. Suicunes can check most Gale Wings users provided no hazards (which shouldn't be too hard if you have a bulky Defogger), and speaking of hazards, can also shuffle opponents with Roar. Probably works best in tandem with Spikes support, though, as always, Stealth Rocks are always appreciated.
