Never won a tour.
Stall is back
Okay one time in Discord I almost got scolded to death because I said "banning Terrakion, while I support it, is a change that removes the last top-tier scarfer in the metagame". I mean, I get it. Stuff like Victini exists. But if we take a look at banned 'mons like Hoopa-U, Keldeo, and Terrakion, most of them have Stealth Rock resistances which means they can come in more than just a couple times to bring pain, and they all (except Poopa-U) can safely retreat against Weavile which kills like almost every Pokemon with adapt + band + pursuit at this point (in Hoopa-U's case, it can just win against Weavile 1v1 unless Weavile is scarf(???) or it is locked into Psychic-type moves). Now what I want to say by making reference to scarf users is that revenge killing is gonna be very reliant on priority meaning anti-priority stuff might be more prevalent.How will this affect the metagame?
* Now birdies like Zapdos, Mandibuzz, and Skarmory (which is 2HKO'd by adapt + band + CC) have one less pain to face and I think they will carry Magic Bounce more than before. This doesn't mean Delta Stream won't be a good ability for them, however.Do you see any specific mons that will appreciate this ban?
Tbf I half agree and half disagree. Some people might know this already but Adaptability shines when STAB combination is good enough to threaten the notable portion of the metagame. Let's take a look at banned stuff:This ability is just absolutely insane, slap it on anything offensive and it turns into this unwallable fucking beast of a Pokemon. - avocado
This kinda finalizes my reasoning; very few Pokemon are able to simultaneously threaten most of the metagame, make efficient lure sets, always do something meaningful against any archetype of teams while possessing top tier Speed and enough offensive stats. Keldeo just wrecks any teams that is not specifically prepared for it, and the same goes Terrakion except it has an access to stuff like Swords Dance and Stealth Rock. The only good Adaptability users we have, I would say, are Bisharp, which cannot set up at all and is reliant on inconsistent priority move against hyperoffense, and Lucario, which has less powerful priority move and therefore has to choose between carrying scarf (who tf uses scarf lucario) and be dead weigh against stall, or, carry Swords Dance / Nasty Plot and don't do much against hyperoffense.An ability is deemed banworthy when we believe that the ability itself is the issue, and that a disproportionate amount of users become "broken" with the ability. - Laxpras
Skarmory’s standard set is unaware, so adapt chomp has difficulty 4hkoing it. Even intimidate skarm, though, isnt koed by +1 zoutrage->outrage even with rocks. Tapu Fini can switch into sd and take the +2 eq even with rocks up (although its easily worn down by eq), and tapu Bulu deals easily. Garchomp is an excelent wallbreaker in the vein of mamoswine, but isnt really a threat from the same cloth because:Garchomp doesn't struggle that much vs Skarmory imo, +2 Outrage is pretty close to 2HKOing with SR:
+2 252 Atk Adaptability Garchomp Outrage vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 148-175 (44.4 - 52.5%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
and z-outrage does a whopping 70% so breaking past Skarmory for Garchomp has been easy for me in any game. I don't think choice band would be an item I'd slap on Garchomp, z-outrage seems to be the best set to me for this very reason, and dragon/ground stab combo only misses on celesteela, skarmory, and levitating fairies (if such thing exists, I don't think it does but I've come across levitate magearna which I assumed isn't optimal lol), and cele is 2hko'd by outrage while skarm can be broken with a z-move.
Hippowdon also drops to +1 Outrage (assuming you SD and they come in for intimidate). Idk what cele runs but if its max/max+ def it's in the same boat as skarmory.
I suppose this could be a stretch though but it's just food for thought and what I experienced during my laddering. I also suppose you could make the argument of playing around z-move, but that sounds like a shaky argument to me cuz you'd be sacking a mon or taking a risk doing this.
I could see the argument though, adaptability was good enough to get a few mons banned but not good to the degree where it should be banned itself.
fair points on everything but offense would be obliterated by either stab without set up tbhSkarmory’s standard set is unaware, so adapt chomp has difficulty 4hkoing it. Even intimidate skarm, though, isnt koed by +1 zoutrage->outrage even with rocks. Tapu Fini can switch into sd and take the +2 eq even with rocks up (although its easily worn down by eq), and tapu Bulu deals easily. Garchomp is an excelent wallbreaker in the vein of mamoswine, but isnt really a threat from the same cloth because:
- It has already viable answers on stall, semistall, and balance (mainly skarm but also fini or celesteela) that arent a tiny bit of chip damage away from death ala buzzwole or intimidate skarmory for terrakion
- Its stabs are worse; both have immunities and earthquake may have custom answers such as levitites or grassy surgers.
- It is reliant on zmoves and setup, which hurts both is breaking multiple build in soft answers (such as ff skarmory+ intimi buzzwole and against teams with unaware and means it needs more than just a pivot into something it beats.
- Its less effective against offense, both because of its lower speed tier and its reliance on setup and zmoves for OHKOes
- It can be trapped, either by weavile after chip or by anything (especially fairies) if it ends up clicking outrage.
In terms of defensive counterplay, theres much more variaty in what may be chosen to answer it and more reliability thanks to the lack of fear of random toxic putting it just into 2HKO range, especially given the ability to use fairies to play around with outrage and Zoutrage.
I would say we should.Does this mean we can take a look at mamo now? That mon is almost a terrak level problem imo.
Not to mention that the primary stab has a 30% flinch chance making a lot of those 3hkos happen. Plenty of matches are won or lost because skarmory flinches and dies.I would say we should.
Terrakion does stuff like, breaking havoc with Choice Band / Swords Dance, or revenge kill threats like Volcarona using Choice Scarf. Mamoswine, on the other hand, does something similar but it has even better dual STAB which only leaves Buzzwole as a reliable switch-in barring gimmicky shits like Levitate Heatran or some sort. Also it isn't even useless against HO because Life Orb + Adaptability + Ice Shard hurts hella a lot to frail stuff like Xurkitree:
252 Atk Life Orb Adaptability Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Xurkitree: 151-179 (49.1 - 58.3%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Xurkitree: 166-198 (54 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Mamoswine is also capable of bypassing two prevalent Intimidate users called Gligar and Hippowdon. Skarmory is stressful at times but it can be lured in and be taken out by Magnet Pull user or your Mamoswine can use Stealth Rock while forcing a switch. No setup move is bummer but its dual STAB in current meta is just, excellent.
That is not to mention Mamoswine running special moves is not a meme at all:
0 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Mamoswine Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Buzzwole: 208-247 (49.7 - 59%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Mamoswine Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Skarmory: 166-198 (49.8 - 59.4%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
One time I said "Mamoswine in AAA is like Primal Groudon in BH for certain degree". Well that's kinda exaggerated but this guy theoretically has 0 switch-ins; and those who are meant to check physical Life Orb variants get memed by lure. I mean, you can run stuff like Thicc Fat Buzzwole or Grassy Surge Mew but that's about it. You need to run something really specific to handle this Mamoswine.
But there are drawback too; in order to maximize wallbreaking-efficiency Mamoswine needs Life Orb; running Choice Band leaves you unable to use Ice Shard after using other moves, and after you use Choice Band Ice Shard for revenge killing, you will most likely be a setup fodder against the next guy that comes in. So vulnerability to entry hazards and Life Orb kinda puts Mamoswine on timer (unlike Terrakion which didn't have a reason to choose Life Orb, had Stealth Rock weakness, resistance to Pursuit, etc). Also its Speed tier of 80, while decent as a wallbreaker, isn't stellar enough to kill everything in any playstyle like Terrakion did.
Yes I said we should look over this Mamoswine but I am not sure whether it is banworthy or not when it has this many notable strengths / drawbacks as a wallbreaker. I personally pressure it with stuff like Genesect but sometimes it isn't enough.
Yeah i am not going for reqs either. This thing should be banned and hopefully will be. I have used it plenty and people (including me) have to sack two or three mons just to stop it. This is why i hope its BANNED.
By a quite overwhelming vote of 25-2 (Thank you for the great activity this time around guys!), Terrakion is now banned from AAA.