Didn't you hear the news? We're all switching to Terrak
In particular I think you need Wak and Stak offensively, and Porygon + Slowbro are almost always the pivot because of how well they complement eachother, there's not a great alternative combination to run really. And Bulu is almost always the best cleaner as it can perform under Trick Room mid game while also cleaning late game.
It's nice to see Tinted Stak tho, steelworker is so traditional at this point that I wouldn't even have considered running smt else on it.
Trick Room became much better when PH was banned and ppl stopped spamming protect every other turn. But there's still a fair few things I consistently struggle to deal with and they're not necessarily the same as you've highlighted.
Pex is imo the biggest problem, bar none. I don't think any TR mon appreciates losing their item, Stak and Marowak almost become non-threats afterwards. And it has an unrivaled ability to stall turns doing nothing. It's a very hard mon to wear down.
Slowking probably helps with this, I've also had success with Xurkitree under Trick Room as it has much more initial power than Slowking does (Cleanly 2HKOs Blissey without boosts). I haven't actually found many more options that beat it well.
Bulu is the biggest pain among priority mons, it can easily slowball to taking down the entire team if you're not careful as it has good MU against both TR setters. I think that's one of the biggest advantages of Slowking, checking this thing.
Btw you can beat sub Blace with Bonemerang Marowak.
All being said, it seems to me that most ppl who will try to dive in TR as an archetype will make similar conclusions and the finals team are always pretty much the same. That makes it so TR isn't super hard to accommodate for by other teams when building. Intim min speed Corv can very well take on Stakataka andstill be healthy enough for Bulu for example and it's a very spashable mon. Marowak is the true unwallable in TR imo.
Nice to you wrote everything down so neatly tho, hopefully it can help new ppl into trying out different styles and ways to play.
My post above is literally 1 line and has garnered more likes than the actual post, cmon guys support quality posting.
Most trick room teams seem to have 4 or 5 mons in common. Granted it's not much more diverse in standard, but there's really not that much room to fiddle with it, some mons are just better.I want to talk about another team archetype I have been having fun with (especially since the Gengar ban): Trick Room.
Disclosure first: Trick Room is never going to be the most consistent strategy. At the end of the day, you're relying on a field condition that lasts four turns and have no way to extend it or auto-set it. If you pivot to wallbreakers, you really only have three turns to do damage. There will be several times per match that Trick Room ends, and a skilled opponent can take advantage of that.
However, Trick Room gets some notable buffs in AAA that I think make it viable (both in improved setters and higher-damage abusers), and it catches a lot of teams flat-footed. Common walls like Corv, pink blobs, Swampert, Toxapex, and Tapu Fini all struggle against the insane damage output of these wallbreakers, and offensive teams have no hope of switching in safely. I have been able to successfully ladder back into the 1500s with a Trick Room team, and I would love to get feedback from others on how it could be improved/have more discussion about lesser-used strategies that are still viable.
I think there are three parts to a successful Trick Room team: the setters, the abusers, and the cleaner. The team composition I have been enjoying success with recently is two setters, three wallbreakers, and one cleaner.
The Setters
As my previous post suggested, I love slow pivoting in AAA. Most of the Trick Room wallbreakers are frail or have common weaknesses (or both), so getting them in safely is helpful. In order to still be slow once Trick Room is up, that pretty much limits us to mons that learn Trick Room and Teleport. Thankfully, there are several good ones:
All four of these mons are bulky, learn Trick Room and Teleport, and have access to reliable recovery. This makes them excellent candidates to set Trick Room and Teleport to a wallbreaker safely. Whichever ones you choose their move sets will be similar: Trick Room, Teleport, Recovery, and token attack. You do have flexibility in item choice as well (except for Porygon2 who needs Eviolite): Leftovers for Recovery, Mental Herb to shake off Taunt, Focus Sash to take one hit and set up, etc. The team I run uses Slowbro and Porygon2, but there is a good argument for all of them
The two most consistent abilities I have found for the Trick Room setters are Regenerator and Magic Bounce. Regenerator obviously helps keep your setters alive to get Trick Room up multiple times each, while Magic Bounce prevents you from being Taunted (which otherwise ruins any of these mons). Other standard defensive abilities like Intimidate or Magic Guard or even Sturdy can be used, but I have found those two to be the most reliably useful.
The Wallbreakers
Please enjoy the raw damage output that is Tinted Lens, Choice Band Gyro Ball from Stakataka against some of the best physical walls in the game right now:
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Stakataka Gyro Ball (141 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 264-312 (66 - 78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Stakataka Gyro Ball (129 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Swampert: 380-448 (94 - 110.8%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Stakataka Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Fini: 265-313 (77 - 90.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Stakataka Gyro Ball (98 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 142-168 (46.7 - 55.2%) -- 67.6% chance to 2HKO (Earthquake is a guaranteed 2HKO)
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Stakataka Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cobalion: 246-288 (63.7 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Stakataka Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Garchomp: 423-498 (100.7 - 118.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Tinted Lens allows it to blast through steel resists like Corv and Swampert that normally could handle it comfortably (it should be noted that Intimidate Corv manages to avoid the 2HKO). The rest of Stakatak's moveset can be tailored around what you are weakest to: Earthquake helps with Tox, Superpower helps with Ferro, Heat Crash beats even Intimidate Corv, etc. But the bread and butter of this mon is Tinted Lens Gyro Ball.
It may be tempting to put Steelworker as the ability instead, but Stakataka already has enough power to destroy non-resists and appreciates the extra damage against resists. Trick Room turns are precious, and having Stakataka locked into a not-very-effective coverage move because you mispredicted the switch is devastating.
Ghost+Fire has amazing coverage, and with Poltergiest and Flare Blitz both being 110+ BP coming off of 568 Attack with STAB and Adaptability, it hits things hard. It lacks the raw power of Stakataka, but comes close and offers the flexibility of not being choice locked. Marowak also resists most of the common priority types, which can help against Triage.
Both of Marowak's main STAB moves have drawbacks (90% accuracy+needing item or recoil), so running Shadow Bone or Fire Punch in the other move slots can provide safer alternatives when you don't need all that power. Earthquake can nail Pex as well, Low Kick can hit...something? Maybe? Really Flare Blitz+Poltergiest will carry the bulk of the work.
If you find yourself relying on Flare Blitz, you will eventually kill yourself to recoil. But the raw damage is worth it, and if you die to recoil, you've probably killed or irreversibly crippled 2-3 mons on the other side.
252+ Atk Thick Club Adaptability Marowak-Alola Poltergeist (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Hippowdon: 246-290 (58.5 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Thick Club Adaptability Marowak-Alola Poltergeist (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Swampert: 294-346 (72.7 - 85.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Thick Club Adaptability Marowak-Alola Poltergeist (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Fini: 248-294 (72 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Thick Club Adaptability Marowak-Alola Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 548-646 (77.9 - 91.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 184-218 (60.5 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Poltergeist is actually slightly stronger, but the 90% accuracy bites if they're Recover-stalling you)
Slowking-G under Trick Room becomes Sheer Force Gengar (but with a better speed tier). Psychic+Sludge Wave has pretty good coverage and tremendous power, most importantly destroying Toxapex. Nasty Plot+Focus Blast also allows you to break through non-Unaware pink blobs and Corv, who otherwise would be problematic for this set.
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Slowking-Galar Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 546-645 (77.6 - 91.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (both Psychic and Sludge Wave have a chance to 2HKO)
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Slowking-Galar Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0+ SpD Corviknight: 448-529 (112 - 132.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Slowking-Galar Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Fini: 413-486 (120 - 141.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
The Cleaner
A common occurrence is after you've set Trick Room 2-3 times, crippled or eliminated their best walls, and burned through your wallbreakers, you find yourself with a weakened opponent's team and Trick Room down. This is where a cleaner is handy, and Tapu Bulu makes a fantastic cleaner. Once Tapu's hard counters (especially Corv) are defeated, it can often easily mop up what's left between it's high attack and +3 priority Horn Leech. You may also need to bring out Bulu early if your opponent catches you with Trick Room down since everything else on the team is slow as dirt.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8almostanyability-1358577525-bme8g1bimub65z62ymnc9vmqybw57r8pw An early version of this team that shows Staka breaking the physical walls and Maro cleaning up
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8almostanyability-1358594132 Maro picking its way through the entire opposing team
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8almostanyability-1358800848-w7pps70n51hxqs868eykuviso2vhhl1pw Staka putting on a one-man show tearing through an offensive team
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8almostanyability-1359210937-1e5rq1u4i3i1tg0cso3hqkwghydctw9pw The team even has power to break through stallier teams
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8almostanyability-1359204228 Staka making sure Bulu's checks are out of the way before it finishes up
Threats to Trick Room
Trick Room only lasting four turns--no matter what, you're going to have several times per game where Trick Room ends. Good opponents will be looking to take advantage of those turns to set up/bring in their own wall breakers/etc. These will be the most dangerous turns of the match, and positioning yourself to deny their set-up sweepers or hit their wallbreakers will be critical.
Dark types--especially Weavile and Bisharp. All of the common setters are Psychic type or rely on Eviolite and are crippled by Knock Off. They tend to be found on more offensive teams, so maximizing the damage your wallbreakers do while Trick Room is up is vital because you won't be able to set it as much.
Taunt--unless your Trick Room setter is Magic Bounce (or holding a Mental Herb once), Taunt completely shuts down the setters.
Very slow opposing walls--they take less damage from Gyro Ball and in some cases (Ferro and Slowbro/king) can also under-speed Marowak and Knock Off/Scald before it KOs them. These add another level of mind games to the matchup, but can all still be beaten with the right moves.
Powerful wallbreakers--they will likely have several times per match they can get in for free when Trick Room ends. This can create some difficult 50-50s that favor the opponent: switching your own wallbreaker out a turn early so its in when Trick Room ends vs nabbing one more KO? Attacking with your wallbreaker after Trick Room ends to deny set up vs switching and trying to get it up again?
Substitute Blacephalon--this thing has almost made me give up Trick Room lol. Trick Room does NOT have any good answers to this thing.
Priority--obviously priority attacks bypass Trick Room, but I have yet to be overwhelmed by priority attackers. Maro resists all of the Triage types, and Staka has more than enough physical bulk to handle Sucker Punch or Galvanize Extreme Speed. You also have your own priority in Tapu, but well played priority mons can still bypass the speed disadvantage.
Here is a pastebin of the team I have been using most recently. I would love feedback on how it can be improved, strategies to defeat Trick Room in general, or other strategies that are less common but you have found viable!
In particular I think you need Wak and Stak offensively, and Porygon + Slowbro are almost always the pivot because of how well they complement eachother, there's not a great alternative combination to run really. And Bulu is almost always the best cleaner as it can perform under Trick Room mid game while also cleaning late game.
It's nice to see Tinted Stak tho, steelworker is so traditional at this point that I wouldn't even have considered running smt else on it.
Trick Room became much better when PH was banned and ppl stopped spamming protect every other turn. But there's still a fair few things I consistently struggle to deal with and they're not necessarily the same as you've highlighted.
Pex is imo the biggest problem, bar none. I don't think any TR mon appreciates losing their item, Stak and Marowak almost become non-threats afterwards. And it has an unrivaled ability to stall turns doing nothing. It's a very hard mon to wear down.
Slowking probably helps with this, I've also had success with Xurkitree under Trick Room as it has much more initial power than Slowking does (Cleanly 2HKOs Blissey without boosts). I haven't actually found many more options that beat it well.
Bulu is the biggest pain among priority mons, it can easily slowball to taking down the entire team if you're not careful as it has good MU against both TR setters. I think that's one of the biggest advantages of Slowking, checking this thing.
Btw you can beat sub Blace with Bonemerang Marowak.
All being said, it seems to me that most ppl who will try to dive in TR as an archetype will make similar conclusions and the finals team are always pretty much the same. That makes it so TR isn't super hard to accommodate for by other teams when building. Intim min speed Corv can very well take on Stakataka andstill be healthy enough for Bulu for example and it's a very spashable mon. Marowak is the true unwallable in TR imo.
Nice to you wrote everything down so neatly tho, hopefully it can help new ppl into trying out different styles and ways to play.
My post above is literally 1 line and has garnered more likes than the actual post, cmon guys support quality posting.
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) but against bulkier builds he can do some alright work. a jolly nature is also an option as it allows you to outspeed uninvested tapu fini, though the power loss against toxapex is especially notable. prankster walls also stop this set completely, it's just impossible to compete with a priority recover not only making your fishious rend weaker but also healing off the little damage it does. still, it's loads of fun to send him in on like a predicted swampert lead or corviknight defog and instantly taking something out.
) @ Leftovers 
) @ Leftovers 
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) @ Leftovers 
