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Alomomola

I'm surprised nobody has said anything about using this with Toxic Spikes Support.

Also, because this thing has massive HP, it therefore makes massive Substitutes, and can heal the lost HP back with Regeneration. Subing on your first move gives you a nice free turn the next move to do whatever you need to do, and you can counter appropriately. Special sweeper? Light Screen first, Wish, then switch out. Set up Poke? Wish and get out so an appropriate counter ASAP (or just pass up on the Wish if needed).

I would personally prefer Waterfall or even Aqua Jet as an attack to Boiling Water. The burn rate won't do much for this sense it's not supposed to be a wall. It switches in, sets up support, and switches out. Maybe a CM Hydration set could work, but otherwise Boiling Water isn't worth the move slot.

Substitute, Wish, Light Screen, Waterfall/ Aqua Jet for me.
 
A Calm Mind set could definitely work, I don't know how I forgot it learned it. Calm Mind + Wish + Boiling Water + Ice Beam would work nicely. Bold 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD. It has enough bulk to set up multiple Calm Minds.
 
A set with more than one special attack is not usable, except for when you use calm mind.
But there are waaaaaay better CM Sweepers, even in NU.
 
blasphemy1 said:
A Calm Mind set could definitely work, I don't know how I forgot it learned it. Calm Mind + Wish + Boiling Water + Ice Beam would work nicely. Bold 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD. It has enough bulk to set up multiple Calm Minds.
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This is how the Calm Mind set should look like (it would really only work in NU, and it would kind of suck even there)

Mamanbou @ Leftovers
Bold
EVs: 40 HP/176 Def/252 SpA/40 SpD
-Calm Mind
-Surf
-Wish
-Protect

With no SpA EVs, it is so weak that Naive Magmortar survives a +1 Surf after SR damage (LOL).
 
Doesn't this thing havd base 40 Sp.Atk? I would always go with Boiling Water because the burn rate is it's only hope at actually damaging the opponent. The fact that it can't OHKO a Magmortar after SR at +1 shows that this poke has absolutely no business attempting to be a CM attacker.
 
jwoozie said:
Doesn't this thing havd base 40 Sp.Atk? I would always go with Boiling Water because the burn rate is it's only hope at actually damaging the opponent. The fact that it can't OHKO a Magmortar after SR at +1 shows that this poke has absolutely no business attempting to be a CM attacker.
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I agree... all the more reason it should run Boiling Water.
 
Murkglow said:
Of course at that point you're hoping for a 30% chance effect to happen...
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True, and the power difference is extremely significant after 2 or 3 Calm Minds.

This argument reminds me of my tests with Calm Mind RestTalk Entei. Lava Plume, in theory, sounded incredible and Entei seemed like it would be impossible to take down after enough boosts. The truth is that the thing was severely lacking in power and Entei did not burn things often enough to make up for that Base Power Difference. After I switched to Flamethrower, Entei became so much more effective.
 
Oh I'm not saying Boiling Water is bad, you still have not convinced me of that Mario, I'm mearly saying Mamanbou doesn't really have the stats for attacking like that. If we were talking about Milotic then I would stand by running Boiling Water, it's just 40 SpA is "Meh" and relying on getting a Burn to make up for it (when you could Toxic for a more reliable status) is not sensible to me.
 
Murkglow said:
Oh I'm not saying Boiling Water is bad, you still have not convinced me of that Mario, I'm mearly saying Mamanbou doesn't really have the stats for attacking like that. If we were talking about Milotic then I would stand by running Boiling Water, it's just 40 SpA is "Meh" and relying on getting a Burn to make up for it (when you could Toxic for a more reliable status) is not sensible to me.
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Well, I was specifically talking about using Boiling Water and Lava Plume on Calm Mind sweepers. When you are boosting your special defense, the 30% burn side-effect sounds great in theory, but fails in practice especially when you are losing so much power as a result. I suspect that this will also pertain to Pokemon like CM Suicune and Mamanbou.
 
Even if it ran Surf would it really be able to do reasonable damage with Calm Mind (say a +1/2)? And if not then does it matter that Surf is better then Boiling Water if neither hurts?
 
Murkglow said:
Oh I'm not saying Boiling Water is bad, you still have not convinced me of that Mario, I'm mearly saying Mamanbou doesn't really have the stats for attacking like that. If we were talking about Milotic then I would stand by running Boiling Water, it's just 40 SpA is "Meh" and relying on getting a Burn to make up for it (when you could Toxic for a more reliable status) is not sensible to me.
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I mean, speaking in terms of the Calm Mind set though, since the special attack stat is getting boosted anyways, you wouldn't recommend using a special attack despite its pathetic base stat? Toxic is more reliable, but then I think it'd be better off in a Calm Mind-less move set, and if +1 Surf doesn't do enough to OHKO anything notable anyways, I'm just saying Boiling Water would be good so at least you give switch-ins something to think about. Also that Entei comparison doesn't really fit to me, since it actually has a respectable base stat that would be rather significant after 2 or 3 Calm Minds, but something with a minimum neutral 116 special attack isn't exactly going to lead to anything too significant even with those boosts, which is why I say Boiling Water all the way. The boosts make the attack less pathetic, keeps it from being complete Taunt bait, and the effect that you're wanting to happen when using it is important enough to me that (at least) I wouldn't just switch anything in without a second thought.
 
Murkglow said:
Even if it ran Surf would it really be able to do reasonable damage with Calm Mind (say a +1/2)? And if not then does it matter that Surf is better then Boiling Water if neither hurts?
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As I said, CM Mamanbou would only be competitively viable in NU. With Max Special Attack EVs, it reaches 268 Special Attack after 1 Calm Mind which is decent, and Mamanbou has the bulk to continue accumulating Calm Minds. It's a shame that Mamanbou can't learn Sleep Talk because a moveset of Cam Mind - Surf - Wish - Protect is extremely vulnerable to Toxic, and I would have been able to see it as moderately effective (again, in the lower tiers) with a RestTalk set.

Oh man, if only Milotic learned Calm Mind...she would be Uber material.
 
Wish now seems to heal based on the wishers hp now, rather than the reciever. So mamanbou will basically heal 70-80%+ of the reciever's health. With pre-evolution stone, chansey is most likely going ou (with great margin), so mamanbou could be the water blissey of uu.

Also, it has better abilities
 
lumpor said:
Wish now seems to heal based on the wishers hp now, rather than the reciever. So mamanbou will basically heal 70-80%+ of the reciever's health. With pre-evolution stone, chansey is most likely going ou (with great margin), so mamanbou could be the water blissey of uu.

Also, it has better abilities
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I'm not so sure Chansey will go OU with its big sister Blissey ruling the roost around there (I could go into detail about why Blissey is better, but this isn't the thread for that).

So, I think Chansey will be a better wisher than Mamanbou.
 
Since Mamanbou will likely reside in UU, it shouldn't be sweeping. Even with Calm Mind. There are things that that outclass it by far (at sweeping of course), such as Milotic and others (that is, Milotic is remaining UU.
 
Since I tend to have more than one wall on my team...mamanbou will fit in perfectly~ Its lacking sp def just means it needs a specially bulky partner to assist it.
 
Why are people considering a Calm Mind set even in NU? This thing has less Special bulk than Wailord for crying out loud.

Mamonbou: 165/45
Wailord: 170/45

There is no way, even with Calm Mind boosts, that this thing will survive any Special Grass or Electric attack.

For Example: Even just a LO 252 Modest Raichu's Thunderbolt is doing 43.4% - 51.8% to a +1 252/252 +SpD Wailord, which would be even slightly more to Mamanbou.
 
Found a use:

Mamanbou @ Life Orb
*Dory Counter*
Regeneration
Adamant / 252 Attack / 248 Defense / 8 Speed
- Wish
- Waterfall
- Return
- Toxic

A dedicated SD-ST Dory check, probably does other walling tasks vs Ground types.
 
GravityZero said:
Found a use:

Mamanbou @ Life Orb
*Dory Counter*
Regeneration
Adamant / 252 Attack / 248 Defense / 8 Speed
- Wish
- Waterfall
- Return
- Toxic

A dedicated SD-ST Dory check, probably does other walling tasks vs Ground types.
Click to expand...

Using a whole Set just to counter one Pokemon? Yeah, don't see the point in that at all.
 
It's also the Adamant 252 attack spread. That's a lot of investment.

And it's existence is just fine as a bulky water Wish Passer (in lower tiers only of course).
 
Murkglow said:
It's also the Adamant 252 attack spread. That's a lot of investment.

And it's existence is just fine as a bulky water Wish Passer (in lower tiers only of course).
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Base 70 is slightly below average, but it should at least 2hko any non-bulky Dory who wont cooperate and gth out of the field.
 
This is my Calm Mind set. :D

Mamanbou
Nature: Calm
EV: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
~ Calm Mind
~ Protect
~ Boiling Water / Toxic
~ Wish
Ability: Regeneration
Item: Leftovers
 
As I said, you NEED max special attack on on CM Mamanbou if you want it to do worthwhile damage to anything. Even super effective targets wouldn't care about +1 Boiling Water if you don't invest in any SpA.

Bold
40 HP/176 Def/252 SpA/40 SpD

^That's the best spread
 
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