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America

Facing this thread's anti-patrionism diatribe, Vineon waves his flag.

Having it questionned (your patriotism) for opposing something your country does is ridiculous ; patriotism shouldn't ever be questionned this lightly. It isn't or shouldnt be thought as complete devotion nor submittal to your country's views and actions neither should it be seen as a belief the rest of the world is inherently inferior.
 
You know, Im currently writing a thesis on racial relations and the meaning of "race" in society and despite all my research, I still get baffled by the kind of comments made by J-man. Im also not going to bother with a direct response, simply because I have been actually educated about that issue and have personally experienced prejudicial discrimination due to the color of my skin, which I am sure is nearly the opposite for J-man.

What is sad about this entire situation is in fact the reality of the issue : As a collective, American citizens are ignorant towards the principles of the establishment of their own country. The only real solution to this is better education, yet I also completely agree that the US education is a clusterfuck that needs major reform for the 21st century.

Do I believe the US is the greatest country in the world? To answer that question, I simply need to look at my definition of "greatest" and realize that my answer is a resounding 'yes.'

Yes because despite the flaws of my country, I am who I am today because of the opportunities that my country has provided for me. Go ahead and call it patriotism.

Does that mean other countries wouldn't provide me those same opportunities? Absolutely not. I cannot say they wouldn't because I haven't lived in any other country. Im unequivocally biased. However, I would love to hear from members of this community about those opportunities that I, a proud non-white, non-Republican citizen of the United States of America, do not know of that are present in other countries.

If you want to give negative feedback towards my country, you are more than welcome to. I am sure I can help you double that list. It means nothing without reference to other countries. That is all.
 
I'm not "attacking" athletes, per say, but I don't think they deserve to make that much money when other people like teachers and police officers make crap for a yearly salary. $300,000 is a crapload of money, so that's not really justifying anything. I understand that they are "products" and they bring in alot of money, but that doesn't mean all of that revenue should be translated into millions of dollars for someone playing a game.

If we're gonna shell out millions to these people, atleast give cops and teachers and social workers etc a pay raise. Because clearly we can afford it.
 
The thing about that though is that we pay officers and teachers indirectly, while we directly pay to see these athletes perform.

Is $300,000 really that much when you get kicked to the curb, have a blown out knee and are on the edge of being dangerously overweight and on top of all that you have no job experience of any sort because your college years were all spent working out or watching game film? (Of course that isn't the case with all pro athletes but I mentioned an NFL lineman earlier so I thought I might as well run with it.)

It's very noble to wish for higher salaries for doctors, teachers, police officers and the such but truth be told would you pay $50 dollars to watch a cop write a traffic ticket? Would you buy a t-shirt with your History teacher's last name on it?

I understand the argument that these athletes are overpaid, but I think we need to take a better look at the numbers and see how much they are actually making in relation to the amount of revenue they are bringing in.

Not only do they create revenue in the form of tv contracts and tickets and merchandise, they create markets to sell their jerseys and bobbleheads which need workers which creates jobs.

So, should very important, high risk jobs get higher salaries? Yes. Should professional athletes receive the money they do? Yes.
 
Vineon said:
Facing this thread's anti-patrionism diatribe, Vineon waves his flag.

Having it questionned (your patriotism) for opposing something your country does is ridiculous ; patriotism shouldn't ever be questionned this lightly. It isn't or shouldnt be thought as complete devotion nor submittal to your country's views and actions neither should it be seen as a belief the rest of the world is inherently inferior.
Click to expand...

What exactly is it? Approving of your country's (Province's) culture simply because it originates from your area? Supporting local culture and businesses? Taking pride in others' accomplishments because they live nearby?

Each of these could probably be included under patriotism, but it's no where near exhaustive. Patriotism is yet another buzzword that could mean a variety of things.

The 'Patriotism' that I loathe is the assumption that your country can't do anything wrong because it is your country. Or that whatever benefits your country most is inherently right. Or your country is the best because of it's amazing history. (Anything similar without rational justification.)
 
Tayla said:
If we're gonna shell out millions to these people, atleast give cops and teachers and social workers etc a pay raise. Because clearly we can afford it.
Click to expand...

I want to point out that professional sports teams are privately owned, and "we" do not pay the players, the owners of those teams do. It makes no sense to say "we" can afford to give cops, teachers, etc a pay raise because we pay athletes so much. We don't pay athletes anything. I would also like to point out that the athletes that you are talking about are top tier elite athletes in the world and represent a tiny tiny fraction of athletes. I assure you that the guys playing AA baseball in Kansas are getting paid very little. The highest tier of people in most profession are expected to be paid a lot. A quick look through Forbes' list of 1000 richest people shows that only 15 or 16 of them are even associated with sports, and they are all owners, not players (currently at least, some of them probably played at one point, but they made there money as owners and coaches.)

Sure, the average high school teacher doesn't make a lot, but consider the average salaries of professors at prestigious universities. About 180,000/year. Another article notes that some of the highest paid educators are making between 1.5-4 million dollars a year.
 
All stupid comments are fixed so that they are sensible and non idiotic.... forgive me of my insolence, i'm still smoothing out the rough edges in my debate skills...

You know, Im currently writing a thesis on racial relations and the meaning of "race" in society and despite all my research, I still get baffled by the kind of comments made by J-man. Im also not going to bother with a direct response, simply because I have been actually educated about that issue and have personally experienced prejudicial discrimination due to the color of my skin, which I am sure is nearly the opposite for J-man.
Click to expand...

I know my experiences aren't the norm, but they're my experiences. I don't think they're discredited because of some research you've done. It's been the other way around when people care about skin color for the most part where i've been. Maybe i'll experience it the normal way around sometime, but i'm just sayin' what i experienced. I have really nothing to argue with. It's all the way around a sick and irrational hatred. I'm sorry you got caught up with it.


Look, i never said that non-white skin people are always racist against whites... WTC? I'm just saying what i have experienced in my actual life. I (who happens to be white) have been called N***** by black people for some odd reason. I've overheard the black people at my school calling basketball teams racist because they don't have enough black people on them (with no rational explanation). There's a guy at my school whose ancestors were from Mexico, and though he was born in America, he's all "I'm Mexican!" for some odd reason....

I know my experiences aren't the norm, but they're my experiences. I don't think they're discredited because of some research you've done. It's been the other way around when people care about skin color for the most part where i've been. Maybe i'll experience it the normal way around sometime, but i'm just sayin' what i experienced. I have really nothing to argue with. It's all the way around a sick and irrational hatred. I'm sorry you got caught up with it.
 
billymills said:
What exactly is it? Approving of your country's (Province's) culture simply because it originates from your area? Supporting local culture and businesses? Taking pride in others' accomplishments because they live nearby?

Each of these could probably be included under patriotism, but it's no where near exhaustive. Patriotism is yet another buzzword that could mean a variety of things.

The 'Patriotism' that I loathe is the assumption that your country can't do anything wrong because it is your country. Or that whatever benefits your country most is inherently right. Or your country is the best because of it's amazing history. (Anything similar without rational justification.)
Click to expand...
For too many, 'patriotism' is too easily defined (or only defined) by its excesses as if they sufficed to properly define it. It does not necessarily nor generally lead to such extremes, most of the time.

'Approving a culture' is a bit of a weird concept, acknowledging your own culture which inevitably ended up shaping your own identity is what I would say. There are certainly a lot of things to be proud of in any culture and you should feel perfectly fine to take pride in them. It won't stop you from criticizing your society whenever you feel it deserves to be, as you should; nobody else is better positioned to.

Yes, I take pride in accomplishments made by those that most resemble me, to whom I relate most, before those to whom I do less. It goes quite far beyond "only because they live nearby".

All I'm saying is that the 'patriotism you loathe' shouldn't be seen as 'patriotism'. I hate behaviours you described just as much as you do, but I know better than believe an attachment to your society is nothing but another mere pathological human conduct. Cultural pride is a guardian of human diversity ; it may not be the greatest of ideas to lash out at every single one of its manifestations.
 
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