Pokémon Ampharos

[perplexingpool]

I've been experimenting with Mampharos a bit more, and I think Hidden Power Ice is a viable option with which to replace Dragon Pulse. The only things you are hitting with DP are Gliscor and other Dragons. HP Ice scores a clean OHKO on Gliscor, Garchomp and does a lot to Dragonite. It does only slightly less to Pokemon like Donphan. The only significant Poke that HP Ice hits weaker is Goodra, where HP Ice is a 3HKO as opposed to the clean 2HKO of Dragon Pulse.

 

[mertyville]

What do you guys think about a mixed Mega-Ampharos for Trick Room Teams? It could use Fire Punch for coverage.

 

[NotSoClutch]

I've been experimenting with Mampharos a bit more, and I think Hidden Power Ice is a viable option with which to replace Dragon Pulse. The only things you are hitting with DP are Gliscor and other Dragons. HP Ice scores a clean OHKO on Gliscor, Garchomp and does a lot to Dragonite. It does only slightly less to Pokemon like Donphan. The only significant Poke that HP Ice hits weaker is Goodra, where HP Ice is a 3HKO as opposed to the clean 2HKO of Dragon Pulse.

I think you forgot to add stab onto dragon pulse for all but your donphan calc. Gliscor may take less from dragon pulse, but it still hits really hard. I doubt you want to leave mampharos in on a gliscor earthquake anyway.

 

[Zumaren]

What do you guys think about a mixed Mega-Ampharos for Trick Room Teams? It could use Fire Punch for coverage.

i Like it however Firepunch would barely touch most things, Ampharos' attack is awfull, even in hiis mega form his reg attack is awfull.
if you were to do a mix sweeper this would be how id see it.

Ampharos Mix sweeper

Hp 100
SpAtk 252
Def 102
SPdef 50

Quiet
this nature ensures powerfull hitting and low low speed.

Charge beam/tbolt (helps with set up for sweeping)
Focusblast (Take out them tanky steel types even gets a good hit on Forretress)
Dragon Pulse (Hits all your tanky dragons)
Power Gem/Signal beam (I know what your gonna say but confusion is a good thing to throw off those bulky opponents. And covering dark Psychic and grass is good) (Powergem covers Flying, and fire and both hit pretty well if super effective hits.)

 

[Live4evil]

HP Ice scores a clean OHKO on Gliscor, Garchomp and does a lot to Dragonite.

Ampharos has Mold Breaker so HP Ice should OHKO Dragonite. He is actually a great Dragonite killer. Also HP Ice is not a bad choice. I thought at first that you want Dragon Pulse for a stab move on types that resist Electric. But those types are Dragon, Ground, and Grass all of which are weak to Ice. Guess I am just now realizing the wonder that is BoltBeam.

 

[Atomsage]

Don't you still do more damage with Dragon Pulse than HP Ice to Dragonite?

255 vs 240 damage?

But if you're that troubled by Grass/Flying and Ground/Flying go ahead.

 

[phoenixflame95]

Don't you still do more damage with Dragon Pulse than HP Ice to Dragonite?

255 vs 240 damage?

But if you're that troubled by Grass/Flying and Ground/Flying go ahead.

Hmm, w

Don't you still do more damage with Dragon Pulse than HP Ice to Dragonite?

255 vs 240 damage?

But if you're that troubled by Grass/Flying and Ground/Flying go ahead.

Yep, so the damage is pretty similar, but I think the main point was that HP Ice is to hit Gliscor the hardest. Likewise, a neutral Dragon Pulse yields comparable damage vs. 2x effective HP Ice like on the aforementioned Donphan (127 vs. 120).

 

[perplexingpool]

HP Ice vs. Dragon Pulse really depends whether you are more concerned about Gliscor or Goodra. HP Ice hits Gliscor harder, and DP hits Goodra harder. Most other things take a similar amount of damage from each. I run HP Ice because Gliscor seriously messes my team up, and its great to have something that can surprise it with an OHKO as it tries to switch in.

 

[Joeyboy123]

Hey guys, wondering how MAmphy would fair on a rain team? Bar the obvious thunder, not sure which way to go with a moveset? With agility discussion, does one agility boost really cause base 45 speed (I assume with EV investment) to out-speed enough threats to make it a worthwhile strategy? Was going to go 252Def, but guess I'd put it into speed and SpAtt if necessary.

 

[perplexingpool]

Hey guys, wondering how MAmphy would fair on a rain team? Bar the obvious thunder, not sure which way to go with a moveset? With agility discussion, does one agility boost really cause base 45 speed (I assume with EV investment) to out-speed enough threats to make it a worthwhile strategy? Was going to go 252Def, but guess I'd put it into speed and SpAtt if necessary.

With 252 speed EV's, MAmpharos reaches 378 speed after an Agilty boost, enough to outspeed max speed Greninja. It'll get outsped by basically every scarfer, but it's bulky and powerful enough to take them on.

As for Mamp on a rain team, he might be alright, but you're using up the mega slot which could be taken by something like Blastoise.

 

[phoenixflame95]

Hey guys, wondering how MAmphy would fair on a rain team? Bar the obvious thunder, not sure which way to go with a moveset? With agility discussion, does one agility boost really cause base 45 speed (I assume with EV investment) to out-speed enough threats to make it a worthwhile strategy? Was going to go 252Def, but guess I'd put it into speed and SpAtt if necessary.

Yeah, Mega Ampharos doesn't particularly benefit from the rain. It doesn't get an ability that is helped by rain, it doesn't get any moves other than Thunder that is assisted by rain (including lack of Water moves), and its Dragon type may resist Water, but it still doesn't want to be taking too many rain boosted Hydro Pumps to the face. The other thing besides taking up your precious Mega slot is that it's so slow that after switching it in, you'll probably be moving second most of the time, which ultimately leads back to the point that if you're going to dedicate this Mega pokemon for any team, it shouldn't be a rain team, but rather a Trick Room team. Agility is really a waste of time and a move slot for something that's already so slow, and there are those with Swift Swim that are infinitely better in that regard, getting the double speed automatically. It's pretty much as perfect as can reasonably be for Trick Room.

 

[perplexingpool]

Yeah, Mega Ampharos doesn't particularly benefit from the rain. It doesn't get an ability that is helped by rain, it doesn't get any moves other than Thunder that is assisted by rain (including lack of Water moves), and its Dragon type may resist Water, but it still doesn't want to be taking too many rain boosted Hydro Pumps to the face. The other thing besides taking up your precious Mega slot is that it's so slow that after switching it in, you'll probably be moving second most of the time, which ultimately leads back to the point that if you're going to dedicate this Mega pokemon for any team, it shouldn't be a rain team, but rather a Trick Room team. Agility is really a waste of time and a move slot for something that's already so slow, and there are those with Swift Swim that are infinitely better in that regard, getting the double speed automatically. It's pretty much as perfect as can reasonably be for Trick Room.

Mamph is a bit awkward to use on a trick room team because it doesn't get trick room itself, and thus only gets three turns to wreak havoc. There are other Pokemon which are not only slower than Mamph but hit harder than it, courtesy of Life Orb. Mega Ampharos can tear teams to shreds in the late game with only a turn of set-up, which is what it should be doing. Also, I don't think you understand how fast it gets after an agility boost. It outspeeds everything up to max speed base 122's. The only things that outspeed it after an Agility are scarfers, Deoxys-S and some of the faster megas (Gengar, Alakazam, Aerodactyl).

 

[Chou Toshio]

Do you guys think Power Gem has any practical use? 80 Base Power, 100 Acc Special Rock attack-- it's almost too good to be true, looking back on the history of Rock attacks. That said, almost nothing good gets it (with base 75 SpA, Probopass has the strongest STAB Power Gem in the game...). Starmie and Ampharos are the only 2 Pokemon who get it who are at all feasible for use in OU. So what do you think? Potentially have its use?

Rock is one of the most destructive attacking types in the game, but even a 2x super effective Power Gem will only be doing a little more than STAB Dragon Pulse / Thunderbolt to most neutral targets. Fire / Flying Pokemon get blown to bits Thunderbolt, so Power Gem is pretty redundant against Talonflame/Moltres/Charizard. The only other 4x weak mon relevant to OU is Volcarona, and indeed Power Gem would make Ampharos a pretty damn good Volcarona check. That said, Volc isn't exactly a big deal.

So again, there seems to be little to no use for Power Gem unless I'm missing something-- but 80 base power / 100 acc Rock move on that 165 Base Attack is so tempting. Maybe there's something I'm missing?

 

[farranpoison]

Do you guys think Power Gem has any practical use? 80 Base Power, 100 Acc Special Rock attack-- it's almost too good to be true, looking back on the history of Rock attacks. That said, almost nothing good gets it (with base 75 SpA, Probopass has the strongest STAB Power Gem in the game...). Starmie and Ampharos are the only 2 Pokemon who get it who are at all feasible for use in OU. So what do you think? Potentially have its use?

Rock is one of the most destructive attacking types in the game, but even a 2x super effective Power Gem will only be doing a little more than STAB Dragon Pulse / Thunderbolt to most neutral targets. Fire / Flying Pokemon get blown to bits Thunderbolt, so Power Gem is pretty redundant against Talonflame/Moltres/Charizard. The only other 4x weak mon relevant to OU is Volcarona, and indeed Power Gem would make Ampharos a pretty damn good Volcarona check. That said, Volc isn't exactly a big deal.

So again, there seems to be little to no use for Power Gem unless I'm missing something-- but 80 base power / 100 acc Rock move on that 165 Base Attack is so tempting. Maybe there's something I'm missing?

The problem is, what exactly is Power Gem covering over MAmpharos's usual STABs? You've partly said this in your post. Rock hits Fire, Ice, Flying, and Bug for SE. Electric hits Flying already. The only real Ice types to watch out for are Mamoswine, Cloyster, and maybe Weavile wherein Cloyster gets hit by Electric, Weavile has shit defenses so gets hit hard by Thunderbolt, and Mamoswine is neutral to Rock. As for Bug, many are part Flying too so Electric has them covered, and Scizor/Heracross are neutral to Rock. As for Fire, the only Fire type to be really worried about is Talonflame, which Electric hits.

So Power Gem is nice, but really unnecessary. I'd rather have HP Ice for Gliscor or Fire for Ferrothorn.

 

[phoenixflame95]

Mamph is a bit awkward to use on a trick room team because it doesn't get trick room itself, and thus only gets three turns to wreak havoc. There are other Pokemon which are not only slower than Mamph but hit harder than it, courtesy of Life Orb. Mega Ampharos can tear teams to shreds in the late game with only a turn of set-up, which is what it should be doing. Also, I don't think you understand how fast it gets after an agility boost. It outspeeds everything up to max speed base 122's. The only things that outspeed it after an Agility are scarfers, Deoxys-S and some of the faster megas (Gengar, Alakazam, Aerodactyl).

To me, it's more fitting than a rain team, and if you put it that way, Trick Room teams aren't as popular in general because of the distribution of Trick Room to mainly Psychic and Ghost types, but that doesn't really mean Mega Ampharos isn't a good fit. And like I said, I was speaking about how exactly Agility synergizes on a RAIN team when you have Swift Swimmers that don't need the turn of set up for speed, not that Agility itself isn't useful in general. All I can think of rain-wise is a super powerful Thunder. And you said so yourself and I agree that Agility can tear teams in the late game with one turn of setup, but then again, so can a lot of things, but how you get to the late game is what matters...you still have to be able to Mega evolve it, and honestly, it begs to do so early on since regular Ampharos doesn't have the same bulk or type to have too many safe switch-ins. You could lead with it, but it doesn't really do anything as a lead, or you could bring it out after another of your teams is KO'd, but I can't say that's ideal for gaining momentum within the battle since it can't revenge, and it's bulky, but it has no passive or reliable recovery; I'm not sure what it would do.

 

[SuperMeep]

Ampharos will make OU. Has anybody considered one for use with electric terrain support. (look it up) Thunder bolt coming of 165 Special atk with a 50% boost will set fire to anything that doesn't resist it. Seriously. It even learns it.

DOOMpharos @ mega stone
252 Sp atk, the rest distributed wherever.
Thunderbolt (of doom)
Dragon Pulse/draco Meteor/ hp ice
Electric Terrain
Coverage move

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

Ampharos will make OU. Has anybody considered one for use with electric terrain support. (look it up) Thunder bolt coming of 165 Special atk with a 50% boost will set fire to anything that doesn't resist it. Seriously. It even learns it.

DOOMpharos @ mega stone
252 Sp atk, the rest distributed wherever.
Thunderbolt (of doom)
Dragon Pulse/draco Meteor/ hp ice
Electric Terrain
Coverage move

I've loved electric terrain sets, but they seem better suited for doubles. I've been trying the set that uses both rain dance and electric terrain to supercharge thunder, and dragon pulse for coverage, but I'm not sure if its singles OU viable

 

[SuperMeep]

I've loved electric terrain sets, but they seem better suited for doubles. I've been trying the set that uses both rain dance and electric terrain to supercharge thunder, and dragon pulse for coverage, but I'm not sure if its singles OU viable

I feel like it's like trick room. If you can pull it off, you can smash everything, but if you can't your in trouble it can be bad, but the great thing about Ampharos is that this set doesn't rely on or need electric terrain. It's essentially a nasty plot.

 

[ThePinkReaper]

HP Ice does less damage to the 4x dragons than Dragon Pulse does due to stab and HP Ice's power drop. M!Ampharos has been doing well for me recently, I've been running it in tandem with Rotom-W as a bulky pivot

Ampharos@Ampharosite
Modest/Static
252Hp/252SpAtk/4SpDef
-Volt Switch
-Focus Blast
-Dragon Pulse
-Heal Bell

A 4th attacking move is basically redundant unless you're aiming for super specific pokemon(HP Ice for gliscor, HP Fire for Ferrothorn though you 2HKO with Focus Blast anyways, Signal Beam for Celery) The important thing to remember about M!Ampharos is how well it deals with some of the most meta pokemon. It's combination of bulk and typing means there is literally nothing Rotom-W and Talonflame can do to it. CB Scizor is also basically screwed if it comes in with BP and bulky waters barely do anything even with Ice Beam because of it's crazy bulk. Heal Bell is literally just for Rotom-W as WoW is basically all it can do to you and there's nothing Mega's hate more than persistent damage. I've also been considering a Sub Punch variant though with Dual Stab/SubPunch. It's strong enough to use it well and it could definitely help to take out some of it's more annoying opponents like TTar and Blissey and just having Substitute in general is amazing.

As a side note, i cannot stress Amparos' bulk enough. Took an Unboosted Parental Bond EQ and lived as well as a STAB EQ from Gliscor. These are the attacks you DON'T want to take, the attacks you DO want to take do almost nothing.

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

As a side note, i cannot stress Amparos' bulk enough. Took an Unboosted Parental Bond EQ and lived as well as a STAB EQ from Gliscor. These are the attacks you DON'T want to take, the attacks you DO want to take do almost nothing.

That last part got me thinking, and when you do the math, a STAB fully invested earthquake needs to have at least base 120 atk to OHKO this guy, so the only likely users of that are landorus T, Mamoswine, Excadrill, Rhyperior, and garchomp, and thats with no def or HP investment. Not a bad list.

Edit: mega garchomp's also the only dragon claw user that can OHKO without boosts, so there's 2 common "threats" that aren't as threatening as one might think

 

[TorchicBlaziken]

Could Ampharos use Magnetic Flux to boost its defenses before Mega Evolving? Well, if the council does decide to tier megas separately then normal Ampharos could use it in NU or something

 

[perplexingpool]

Could Ampharos use Magnetic Flux to boost its defenses before Mega Evolving? Well, if the council does decide to tier megas separately then normal Ampharos could use it in NU or something

Magnetic Flux is lame. Mega evolving boosts your defences by almost as much, and Ampharos gets cotton guard anyway. Also, static can be quite handy when you switch in on a Talonflame Brave Bird or Jirachi Iron Head.

 

[JEFLIV]

My set:
Ampharos @ Ampharosite
252 HP, 252 SpA, 4 Def
Thunderbolt
Dragon Pulse
Cotton Guard/Thunder Wave
Substitute
Mega Ampharos, when fully HP EVd from level 1, loves his subs. Mine has like 194 HP, and that's only coming off (I think) 25 IVs. The Substitue allows him to get off a Thunder Wave or Cotton Guard, and that can set up a sweep. He does the physical/special thing quite nicely with Cloyster, as well.

 

[Alan]

using substitute on a pokemon without the ability to restore its own HP (via lefties, or a moveslot) is generally a bad idea, imo.

 

[ThePinkReaper]

There are two sets that I think should be the standards for M!Ampharos

BECAUSE YOU'RE WORTH IT
Ampharos@Ampharosite
Modest/Static
252Hp/252SpAtk/4SpDef
-Volt Switch
-Dragon Pulse
-Focus Blast
-Hidden Power Fire/Hidden Power Ice

Overview
This Ampharos is played as a defensive pivot. With it's great bulk and awesome typing it can come in on quite a number of pokemon. Most importantly is Rotom-W who's STABS fail to do any real damage and who's Volt Switch you quad resist. M!Ampharos also resists both of Talonflame's STABs giving you ample ability to switch in and scare it out. Focus Blast is for coverage nailing things like Heatran and TTar on the switch. The 4th move is pretty much open, Hidden Power Fire is for Forretress, Ferrothorn and Scizor and Hidden Power Ice is for Landorus(T) and Gliscor, though it's worth noting only Ferrothorn can reasonably switch in on either of Ampharos' STAB moves.

Pivot Ampharos absolutely loves Rotom-W and Gyarados as partners. Both are immune to ground and both beat common Ampharos switch ins like Heatran, Tyranitar, and Gliscor. Gyarados handles Ferrothorn and Blissey better than Rotom does with taunt however Rotom lacks a stealth rocks weakness allowing it to switch in more freely.

MAYBE SHE'S BORN WITH IT
Ampharos@Ampharosite
Modest(Quite)/Static
252Hp/252SpAtk/4SpDef
-Substitute
-Thunderbolt
-Dragon Pulse
-Focus Blast/Focus Punch

Unlike the previous Amparos which is made to take a hit and scout, Sub Ampharos is made to deal some real lasting damage. Ampharos is great at forcing switches from two of the absolute most common pokemon in the game in Rotom-W and Talonflame freeing it up to substitute. With a sub up Ampharos can more easily deal with common switch ins. While Double STAB and Focus blast gives great coverage, Focus Punch is also a great option for beating out the likes of Blissey and Chansey, though if you go with the Sub Punching set you should use an EV spread of 252 HP/160 Atk/96 SpAtk with a Quite nature. This allows for 50% minimum on Chansey with focus punch and still leaves you with a massive 429 SpAtk. Be warned however that Focus Punch Ampharos actually loses to Rocky Helmet Ferrothorn as even though Ferrothorn can't deal any real damage to Ampharos, you can't KO it without taking massive damage yourself.


Outside of these two sets Ampharos cant really do anything well. Even with it's great bulk and good typing it cant make a reasonable tank due to it's lack of recovery. There's other options for the 4th slot in the pivot set as well: Heal Bell can be used to help support the team and rid it of status, Signal Beam can be used for a OHKO on Celebi. Power Gem should be ignored as it's coverage is redundant only hitting Rotom-H harder than your other three coverage moves. Ampharos also gets light screen, which can support the team and help it beat out random Ice Beam users however without access to light clay it's not a solid option.

Counters:

Anything with STAB earthquake that can survive a hit from ampharos is a counter. Excadrill gets special mention for being immune to electric attacks and resisting Dragon attacks but has to be weary of Focus blast or Substitute on the switch. Florgres with it's massive Special Defense and dragon immunity can handle all of Ampharos' attacks well and hit back with STAB fairy attacks or Toxic. Chansey and Blissey are a 100% counter to Ampharos that lacks Focus Punch. Gliscor and Landorus(T) fear only Hidden Power Ice but can survive a Dragon Pulse and hit back with Earthquake. Dugtrio has trouble getting in but can trap and OHKO with Banded Earthquake.




Sorry for the less than full write up, Im on a bit of a time limit, I can edit in more depth later.