Anti Lead Banette?

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Crystal

Ok, so I was trying to think of a good Anti-Lead, and I found that Banette has the ability to combat common leads like Gengar, Gyarados, and to an extent, Bronzong.

Feedback would be lovely;

banette.png

Banette @ Focus Sash.
Lonely.
252 Atk/6 SpA/252Spd
~SuckerPunch
~Thunderbolt
~Taunt/KnockOff
~Will-o-wisp/Thunderwave

Banette's a fantastic Pokemon in the sense that it is so effective against Gengar leads. Gengar commonly carry 3 attack moves and Hypnosis. Banette can SuckerPunch a 4/0 Gengar for a guaranteed OHKO without having to worry about Hypnosis thanks to Insomnia. In the case that Gengar is EVd defensively enough to survive, focus sash is there anyway.

Banette has a guaranteed 2HKO on 252HP/0SpD Gyarados (even with leftovers) with Thunderbolt. If the Gyarados takes less than 53% damage
for some reason, it can still be burnt or paralysed if it Dragon Danced. (Sash is intact).

Taunt/Knock Off is for Bronzong. Bronzong cannot sleep Banette, nor can it use Explosion. And since Banette is fairly slow, Gyro Ball may not be crippling. Taunt will shut down its attempts at Stealth Rock, where as Knock Off will disable its only recovery; leftovers. After this, it can be promptly burned.

By happy coincidence, Sucker Punch and Thunderbolt will do good damage to other common leads like Deoxy-Speed, Azelf and Aerodactyl. Will-o-wisp will beat up Sandstreamers, your status of choice is generally crippling, and Knock Off/Taunt deals with walls.

Commence criticism.
~Crystal
 
Wow, this actually seems good. I love bannete most people forget insomnia and still hypnosis any way lol. It looks great on paper, but it is still a theorymon. Just have to test it out and see.
 
Seems good, but this is an Anti-Lead. And its slow. We want to see some Damage Calcs of what Gengar/Bronzong/Gyara can do to it before it KOs them. Sure, Sucker Punch is alright for Gengar, but Gyara + Bronzong?

Very nice :D, especially for a first post here.
 
Why, thank you.

Sorry, I suppose I should have had a better look around the categories before posting...

As stated, Gyarados and Bronzong get hurt or hindered by Thunderbolt and KnockOff/Taunt/Will-o-wisp respectively.

Its speed is made up for by Sucker Punches priority and potential thunderwave. Not to mention it still outspeeds most walls, Adamant Tyranitar and some BulkyDos. I'm guessing Gyarados and Gengar can OHKO if they want, of course, that's what the sash is for.

A Bronzong with 128 Attack EVs manages 44-52% on lonely Banette with Earthquake, which is very unlikely to 2HKO. Of course, since it cannot Explode or use Hypnosis this is basically the best it can muster.
 
use the creative moveset thread next time.

anyways, on the set, wouldn't shadow sneak be better than sucker punch? so that you can do stuff like hit azelfs who try to sr you and gengars who try to sub, as well as deoxys-s. you also get reliability, STAB, arguably better typing, and higher pp at the cost of a mere 20 bp. also taunt > knock off for bronzongs.
 
SuckerPunch does minimum 102% damage to 4/0 Gengar, therefore it's needed to OHKO. Shadow Sneak would work, but it would require Banette to sacrifice all but 1 HP... I think that outweighs the unlikely event of a Sub Gengar. Also, I'm not awfully worried about Azelf, as it can be statused. Since it can't explode, it WILL mind being paralysed. It's almost impossible to prevent a suicide lead from stealth rocking anyway.

Taunt or Knock Off is merely up to preference, since they do different things and they both annoy Bronzong.

And yes, -SpDef sounds good~
 
Crystal said:
SuckerPunch does minimum 102% damage to 4/0 Gengar, therefore it's needed to OHKO. Shadow Sneak would work, but it would require Banette to sacrifice all but 1 HP... I think that outweighs the unlikely event of a Sub Gengar. Also, I'm not awfully worried about Azelf, as it can be statused. Since it can't explode, it WILL mind being paralysed. It's almost impossible to prevent a suicide lead from stealth rocking anyway.

Taunt or Knock Off is merely up to preference, since they do different things and they both annoy Bronzong.

And yes, -SpDef sounds good~
Click to expand...

honestly, this thing is gonna force out most gengars, who aren't the most common lead anyways. honestly, who tries to stay in with gengar against something that has base 115 attack and a stab supereffective attack that has a good chance of OHKOing? but shadow sneak allows you to take big chunks off of azelf without even getting scratched, or keep sr away from your field for the whole game. also, most bronzongs are lumzongs nowadays anyways, so knock off looks kinda pointless. as for the -sp.def nature, this helps against said bronzong, so that's a good move. might I ask why you're running speed though? personally, I'd rather dump it all into hp or even def to take on those dang bronzongs better.
 
I'm running speed because it's nice to outrun things like Suicune and Gliscor if they haven't invested in speed. Adamant Tyranitar as well. Not to mention the Anti-Lead orientation and the sash AND the defense reducing nature would sort of negate any desire to try and prevent an OHKO from something.
Especially since Banette's defenses are bad enough already.

Personally I'd use SuckerPunch, but I will not deny that Shadow Sneak is a perfectly viable option. It's primarily situational.

I was always under the impression that most Banette run Shadow Claw, therefore a Gengar would get cocky with its much higher speed and ability to OHKO Banette. Of course, a switch is very likely. But the switch in is risking being knocked off (if you choose knock off) or statused, which is not a good start. Not to mention, the sash would still be intact.
 
Here's just some damage calcs. for this Banette lead:

361 Atk. Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP Gengar(any set): 102.3%-120.2%

A guaranteed OHKO.

203 Sp. Atk. Thunderbolt vs. Bulky Gyarados: 62.3%-73.2%

vs. DD Gyarados and CB Gyarados: 69.7%-81.0%

vs. Flail Gyarados: 71.2%-84.1%

vs. Resttalker Gyarados: 57.4%-68.1%

Thunderbolt is a guaranteed 2HKO on all Gyarados versions:)
 
I think if Gengar tried putting it to sleep, and saw Sucker Punch, itd be more likely to retreat since SP wont do anything to the Pokemon coming in, and most people would realize that SP will OHKO.
 
I'd hope the Gengar user isn't dumb enough to try and Hypnosis, If the Gengar sees a failed SP I would definitely predict a switch and knock off or throw a status move around.

Also, I just tested the Banette on Shoddy, it made quick work of an opposing Crobat.
 
What do you do against Weavile? You switch it got STAB Pursuit.

Sucker Punch does not much at all. Your can burn it but it'll still die. Plus if your burn misses...
 
I posted a similar set for Honchkrow in the Contributions forum:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44970

I've been using this as a lead on one of my teams for over a month now and it is incredibly successful. It does have minor issues countering Aerodactyl and Weavile leads but switching to a physical wall stops them cold. It has trouble with dual screen Deoxys since with a Reflect up, Pursuit does very little. I would mention Snatch, which would steal screens for yourself, but you're likely to be Taunted anyway. Not that it matters since the Weavile, Aerodactyl, and Deoxys leads have become much less common.

The only Pokemon it absolutely can't take on is Tyranitar. Sandstorm messes up the Focus Sash and there isn't much that Honchkrow can do other than use Thunder Wave.

Also, this is the first analysis I've done so don't be surprised if there are mistakes.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/honchkrow

dpmfa430.png

[SET]
Name: Krazy Krow
Move 1: Taunt
Move 2: Thunder Wave
Move 3: Sucker Punch
Move 4: Pursuit
Item: Focus Sash
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 4 HP/ 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Ability: Insomnia


[SET COMMENTS]
<p>This Honchkrow does a great job of stopping some of the most commonly used leads cold. Taunt forces any leads that are looking for a quick setup to rely on damage dealing attacks. Thunder Wave is useful for crippling anything that might be giving you trouble or is likely to need speed in its attempt at a sweep. The combination of Sucker Punch and Pursuit confounds many opponents in deciding what move to use and often leads to surprise KOs. Throwing Insomnia and Focus Sash into the mix creates a Pokemon that is likely to perplex the opponent in trying to uncover Honchkrow's role.</p>

<p>If a player doesn't know much about Honchkrow and is using Bronzong, Gengar, or Roserade as a sleep-inducing leader, they probably don't know that it has Insomnia as its ability. Using Taunt against Bronzong, the most common lead in the game, on the first turn prevents them from discovering this and keeps it a secret until later in the match. Taunt will also prevent Bronzong from accomplishing his main goal of setting up Stealth Rock. After Taunt, you're safe to switch out to something of your own that resists Gyro Ball in and attempt to execute your strategy.</p>

<p>It's advised that you use Pursuit on the first turn against Azelf, Gengar, and Roserade. Azelf will set up Stealth Rock on the first turn and take a fair chunk of damage from Pursuit, eliminating his Focus Sash in the process. Knowing that that Azelf will be KOed if switched out, the player will choose to attack, which is when you KO with Sucker Punch. Gengar is likely to switch out on the first turn in fear of Sucker Punch or a Choice Scarfed Night Slash, so Pursuit will almost always be the right choice. Even if Gengar decides to use Thunderbolt, Focus Sash will kick in and you will get the KO with Sucker Punch on the next turn. Even with just 1 HP, Honchkrow can still can aggravate your opponent for the remainder of the match. Against Roserade, they're likely to attempt setting up Toxic Spikes. Allowing them to do this while you Pursuit and then using Sucker Punch immediately after Toxic Spikes have been set up will also result in a KO. Given Honchkrow's 349 Attack and STAB on Sucker Punch, it's likely to do 25% against most Pokemon, making it perfect for taking down low-health sweepers.</p>

<p>Thunder Wave is there to put a stop to anything that might be causing problems. Focus Sash guarantees that you're able to survive and Paralyze any Choice Scarfed foes. Thunder Wave is also your best choice against another common lead, Gyarados, forcing him to act as little more than a slow physical attacker for the remainder of the battle. Since Honchkrow is faster than most Gyarados, it's not a problem if it switches in on you.</p>

<p>While Honchkrow does a great job of eliminating some of the more common leads, it is possible that Toxic Spikes or Stealth Rock will be set up. As a result, it's probably still a good idea to carry a Rapid Spinner or have a team that's not significantly weak to these strategies.</p>
Click to expand...
 
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