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Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Welcome to the Anything Goes Old Gens Hub. This thread is intended to be a resource for new and experienced players hoping to journey into previous generations of Anything Goes. This thread currently contains resources from Generations 6 (ORAS) and 7 (USUM).
The main goal of this thread is to act as a resource; however, discussion on previous generations of AG is permitted as well. This resource may help in future multi-generation tournaments or just for casual tournaments held within the Anything Goes Showdown chatroom.
Please try to keep discussion civil and on topic. Additionally, please, no one-liner posts.
This rank is for Pokemon viable only on completely Baton Pass oriented teams. They are not relevant for any other strategy. Pokemon viable on Baton Pass and non-Baton Pass teams are ranked as normal above.
A last few words, the Necrozma-DM set in the first sample is messed up. Swords Dance with 0 Attack IV's and Timid? Nice but won't work. This might also just confuse anyone who uses the team.
A last few questions,
Do we have a setpedia? If yes, do we plan to add it to the main post? If no, do we plan to have it?
Do we have a VR by sets? If yes, do we plan to add it to the main post? If no, do we plan to have it?
S --> S+
nomming Arceus to S+ rank in ORAS, above Darkrai or at the very least move Darkrai down. I think ekiller is a comfortable bit above the rest of the meta, being the best mon. Its splashability can't be understated, with teams commonly using multiple of them as they check almost every offensive threat, Darkrai itself included.
C+ --> Down somewhere
The amount of teams I'd want to use this mon on is literally 0. There's so many better mega options for every playstyle, and when mega ray exists I just don't think there's that much of a use for this thing. It's not bad because its stats and ability are still insane, it's just so incredibly outclassed that I don't think C+ is justified.
C --> Up somewhere
I think Tyranitar is better than it's shown rn, with it being a good pivot on stall teams that checks a good amount of strong threats while providing Stealth Rock. Not the best of mons but I think it's better than company down in the C rank.
This is sudden but I was encouraged to make this post starting at 4 in the morning. So here I am done with this post by 7:30 AM. I spammed usage stats and submitted this post early by mistake so it was deleted and then edited until done.
Okay I know I haven't played Anything Goes seriously in a long while aside from quickly trying out tours every now and then but I've been around during a lot of ORAS AG's development and have seen both sides of the AG community from before and after ORAS held as the current generation. Playing this metagame fairly often back then and being Anything Goes roomstaff since day one has helped me gather some community perspective when it comes to judging Pokemon. With that in mind, I feel making a couple of nominations could be worth a shot. Here goes!
S+ --> S
I had a long conversation in the Anything Goes room the night before talking about this Pokemon and its perception by the community over the years. Darkrai is an amazing Pokemon who does an outstanding job oppressing the entire Anything Goes metagame to prepping for hax. Lum Berry, Substitute, or Sleep Talk are often required on many offense Pokemon for players not to get screwed over and sometimes, those weren't even enough. Darkrai has had its moments for sure, as shown in tours such as OMPL 4 and AGPL, but despite this and its high influence in the metagame, Darkrai had one big issue.
It tends to get overwhelmed by the sheer amount of options players had to prepare for it.
Here's a list:
- Lum Berry Extreme Speed Arceus and Lum Berry Extreme Speed Mega Rayquaza, both used much more used than Darkrai and helped against nearly all the offense threats in the meta.
- Magic Coat Pokemon, used mostly by Arceus and all of its most prominent formes bar Ghost.
- Magic Bounce Pokemon such as Mega Diancie and Mega Sableye
- Choice Scarf Moonblast Xerneas and U-Turn Genesect
- Substitute users with Lum Berry
- Mega Mewtwo Y
- Sleep Talk Primals and Xerneas
- Prankster Klefki
This isn't a full list and are not all perfect checks or counters against Darkrai but they very frequently stacked up in Anything Goes games. This and its reliability of an 80% accuracy sleep move made Darkrai not as difficult for the community to deal with at the time as what's being exaggerated in modern times. Darkrai is pretty frail, which meant missing Dark Void or getting surprised by the Lum Berry/Sleep Talk Pokemon listed usually meant game over for it. Darkrai often had to risk playing mindgames to get around the preparation against it.
Three of the Pokemon noted are the very three directly below its placement on the VR. As Fc pointed out, E-Killer Arceus was insanely splashable. It became the most used Pokemon BY far for essentially all of ORAS AG.
Mega Rayquaza was also more prominent Darkrai due to it being the biggest offensive threat in the metagame. It often ran Lum Berry + Extreme Speed to deal with Darkrai. Darkrai couldn't 1v1 Mega Rayquaza much of the time unless Mega Rayquaza's Lum Berry was used, as all it took was 1 Dragon Ascent and 1 Extreme Speed to take Darkrai down. It could play a mind game and spam Substitute to stack Rayquaza's Special Defense drops and land a hard hitting Dark Pulse, but doing so made it risk falling into the KO range of Extreme Speed.
In addition, many Xerneas ran Substitute in order to help face off against non Sludge Bomb variants of Darkrai. Some even ran Choice Scarf Sleep Talk sets dedicated to taking down the Pokemon.
All three of these Pokemon can give Darkrai a harder time than vice versa especially when paired together.
Darkrai also has some 4-moveslot syndrome. It wants Dark Void, Dark Pulse, Substitute, Sludge Bomb, Nasty Plot, Focus Blast, Taunt, and Double Team to prepare for everything that can take it down, but it can only runs four of these moves. Darkrai can still cheese its way into winning at times depending on the set, or just win if it carries the right moves for an opposing team.
In summary, I'm trying to say that Darkrai is not the best Pokemon in this metagame. It has to constantly fight to accomplish what it wants to the fullest extent much of the time due to the excessive demand this metagame has on preparing for hax and the amount of dominant options there are for doing so.
On another note, the usage stats above have proven who the best Pokemon truly is in Gen 6 Anything Goes. Usually these stats shouldn't weigh too heavily on how viable a Pokemon is but when a Pokemon is so consistently far ahead of any other in usage for a time frame the size of a whole generation and the sample size of games were large to enormous throughout nearly all of it, there isn't really anything better to indicate that this is the best Pokemon.
ORAS noms :o S --> S+
nomming Arceus to S+ rank in ORAS, above Darkrai or at the very least move Darkrai down. I think ekiller is a comfortable bit above the rest of the meta, being the best mon. Its splashability can't be understated, with teams commonly using multiple of them as they check almost every offensive threat, Darkrai itself included.
What Fc said here is true and stands out. This Pokemon was incredibly common because it beat out all your best offense threats in the meta. I personally believe no Pokemon is S+ because Mega Rayquaza was shown to heavily oppress the metagame to stack checks specifically for it, and still beating them out much of the time, while Normceus was more so a Pokemon extremely usable for dealing with everything rather than one who heavily dictated the metagame as much as Darkrai and Mega Ray. This is not something I would die on a hill for though. If there are any Pokemon who truly deserves S+, Arceus-Normal would be it.
Aside from Arceus, I also believe Mega Rayquaza is better than Darkrai because its checks were far less splashable and less easy to utilize. Mega Rayquaza was often worn down by Arc spam (thanks E-Killer and Arceus-Fairy/Arceus-Rock/Arceus-Water) but outside those, when rocks were up, hardly anything viable had enough to deal with this monstrosity. Arceus was the one true Pokemon stopping Mega Rayquaza from becoming nigh unmanageable. It's at least a little more overwhelming to deal with than Darkrai.
[02:29] &Ransei: Darkrai was always highly prepped for
[02:30] &Ransei: at least since late gen 6
[02:30] &Ransei: just we had a very wide shift in playerbase afterwards of people who weren't familiar with darkrai
[02:30] %Frito135 ❤: i think we've seem more interesting ways of dealing with darkrai pop up
[02:30] %Frito135 ❤: while actual innovation with rai has dropped off a cliff
[02:30] &Ransei: i honestly don't think rai is the best mon
[02:31] %Frito135 ❤: probably not anymore, but idt it can ever be discounted even slighty
[02:32] &Ransei: it never was at least in a fully developed metagame
[02:32] %Frito135 ❤: so i think its a crazy mon still in the sheer amount of constraint it puts on the builder
[02:32] &Ransei: yeah
[02:32] &Ransei: it's still a crazy Pokemon
(3 days later)
[02:52:05] &Ransei: but uh when ORAS AG ended
[02:52:18] &Ransei: i was left under the impression that both mega ray and ekiller were above darkrai in viability
[02:52:45] &Ransei: and tbh nobody really complained about darkrai nearly as much as they did after oras
[02:53:07] &Ransei: the entire community took a drastic shift towards people who mostly didn't experience ORAS ag as much and at the time it was the current gen
[02:53:21] &Ransei: and this caused Darkrai to be grossly over-exaggerated
To be honest the former conversation was initiated by me discussing how Darkrai might be in Gen 5 Anything Goes, where sleep counters are reset upon switching out. That right there would truly make Darkrai an S+ rank nightmare to face off against but that's just my speculation. Genesect spam might stop that .
A+ -> S-
I agreed with its drop to A+ at first, but then tried to compare it to Mega Gengar. I think the extreme customizability of Primal Groudon in Gen 6 Anything Goes turns it into a defining figure of its metagame and a figure that's more dominant than Mega Gengar. Primal Groudon works really well in an offense oriented metagame where it can unpredictably run many combinations of physicals, special sets, and support sets, making it difficult for most Pokemon below it on the VR to properly deal with. It even tends to carry out of this world sets like Thunder Wave + Rock Slide or Solar Beam Eruption. Here's an overall analysis of Primal Groudon with some example sets: https://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/pokemon/groudon/ag/
Primal Groudon's insane versatility in physical, special, and even support sets in general that allow it to prosper here while people struggle to use Mega Gengar over Mega Ray due to Pokemon like Darkrai. In addition to being so customizable and usable, Primal Groudon also serves as the most effective countermeasure to Xerneas in Generation 6. In a metagame without Dusk Mane, Magearna, or Zacian-Crowned, some of your best options are limited to Primal Groudon, Ho-Oh, Arceus-Poison, Mega Gengar, and Arceus-Steel. Ho-Oh can be cracked down by Thunder sets, Arceus-Steel can get cracked down by Focus Blast sets. Arceus-Poison and Mega Gengar can be cracked down by Psychic/Psyshock if they become too frequent. Primal Groudon does not really have a hard answer Xerneas can use but lacks reliable recovery most of the time. Xerneas is one of the most defining Pokemon of Gen 6 Anything Goes and can easily tableflip games with a lack of priorityspam or the aforementioned checks who are restricted. I believe Primal Groudon being able to check Xerneas a better than Mega Gengar, it dominating the vast majority of lower VR, and using its versatility to deal with some other Pokemon higher than it on the VR (Sleep Talk for Darkrai, burns/paras/rock tomb for MRay/E-Killer Arceus) makes Primal Groudon a defining figure in the metagame worth at least bringing up to S-.
A- --> A
To me, it was confusing to see Darkrai move up but Klefki move down with Klefki still being heavily influential in this metagame and being able to check Darkrai. Klefki is a silly mon that can almost never be overstated. Although its RNG is less effective and its checks/counters are more solidified than Darkrai's, Darkrai wasn't the only one who greatly oppressed Anything Goes to prepare for hax at extreme levels. Prankster Thunder Wave + Swagger allowed teams of six of these have often hit high ladder in the past (as opposed to like, Xynix's Baton Pass team in Gen 7 being a one off instance), despite the amount of luck it uses. It heavily benefits in the offense metagame and annoyed many Pokemon because not only did it lower their speed, it took advantage of nearly every physical set with Swagger + Foul Play. Players had to pray for their Pokemon do not hit themselves because if they did, Foul Play doubled down on their damage and Pokemon like Arceus and Mega Rayquaza were done for. Thunder Wave lowering speed badly harmed Pokemon who used up Lum Berry and went without Rest, and this Pokemon was able to take on Darkrai in a 1v1 if Darkrai didn't carry Substitute. Klefki's recognition has gotten down to the point where we've had several claims of Numel being viable JUST because it could deal with Klefki and Klefki was usually seen as one of the best Pokemon in this metagame metagame for a long while. I wouldn't say it's more viable than Yveltal or Ho-Oh but I think it's still more efficient than the likes of Lugia, Skarmory, and Primal Kyogre for being able to deal with a wider span of Pokemon with something very silly and oppressive. It gives Darkrai and Xerneas quite difficult of a time if they don't carry Substitute. It gives Mega Ray and Arceus a difficult time if ahead of time, either Darkrai or another Klefki forced their Lum Berries to be eaten. Ho-Oh and Primal Groudon can deal with it if they aren't confused by Swagger and pressured by rocks in addition to getting hit with a Foul Play from prediction, but Klefki can just as easily pair with Primal Kyogre to play a mind game and eventually make both of these Pokemon sweat a drop when they realize someone may have to take a Water Spout. It is more effort for most teams to work around Klefki when spammed, than I can arguably say for all other Pokemon in A- individually, but this Pokemon is manageable and overshadowed enough to be kept out of something as high as A+ or S.
Barbaracle was ranked because Thimo made some fire innovative teams with this Pokemon back then and they worked. Some of his teams even spammed it. Its rock typing resisting Extreme Speed spam and Shell Smash doubling Attack + Speed in a metagame as offense-oriented as Gen 6 AG gave Barbaracle more of a shot. This Pokemon did carry White Herb to reduce its defense drops after the first Shell Smash, which could also be a factor and probably allowed this Pokemon to hit x3 against any bulkier teams.
Hello! The USUM council has awoken from its two-years slumber to launch a long-overdue VR update. This will probably be the last USUM VR update for a while; the metagame has gotten its time to settle in, and with no looming developments on the horizon, we believe this to be the most comprehensive overhaul of the VR. The voting slate can be found here. Without any further ado, let's dive into the changes!
Rises
A+ to S-
A- to A (Dark)
A- to A (Water)
B+ to A- (Steel)
B+ to A-
D to C
A+ to S-
Groudon-Primal's initial A+ rank has always been indicative of how immense its impact on the metagame is, but we believe it deserves to rise to S-. As one of the best role compressors in the metagame, its defensive set allows one to reliably check Kyogre-Primal, set Stealth Rocks, and spread status with Toxic at a minimum while leaving room for customization, allowing you to tailor your Groudon-Primal set to fulfill your team's exact needs. Outside of its primary defensive functions, it's capable of checking the most dangerous setup sweepers with Roar/Dragon Tail, threatening Ho-Oh with Stone Edge, and even posing as a bulky breaker with Swords Dance. Defensive sets aside, Groudon-Primal's potential as an offensive force is undeniable—its specially attacking and mixed breaker sets are both spectacular for breaking down even the most robust walls thanks to its diverse move pool and incredibly high base offensive stats.
A- to A
Arceus-Dark and Arceus-Water have risen due to the phenomenal defensive utility and stability they provide for one's teams. Arceus-Dark needs no introduction; it's the only Arceus forme that reliably checks Necrozma-Ultra and has a neutral typing against most metagame threats, making it one of the best Calm Mind sweepers. It can also provide defensive utility with its Defog + Toxic set and make progress in slow matchups with its Perish Song + Whirlpool set. Arceus-Water has seen many developments lately with its Waterium-Z + Liquidation set, a set that greatly improves its Mega-Gengar, Gothitelle, Calm Mind Arceus-Ground, and Xerneas matchups. Aside from its moveset versatility, its excellent typing allows it to check Swords-Dance Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, offensive Groudon-Primal, and pivot into Kyogre-Primal in a pinch. One must also not forget about the choices for utility that it provides between Defog, Will-O-Wisp, Toxic, and much more.
B+ to A-
Both of these Steel-types are seeing rises in their ranks due to their excellent role compression capabilities. Arceus-Steel can serve many different purposes ranging from a Stealth Rock setter that threatens the common Defog Arceus-Fairy, a toxic immunity, a one-time Mega-Rayquaza switch-in, and a Calm Mind sweeper. Most revered, however, is its offensive capability as a Calm Mind sweeper due to its typing that allows it to forgo Refresh and carry two attacking moves without worrying about getting Toxic'd. As for Celesteela—its reliability as a check to common metagame threats such as Dragon Dance Mega-Rayquaza, Calm Mind Arceus-Ground, and Extreme Killer Arceus compounded with its tendency to spread status and chip enemies prove that it deserves to rise above the B rank.
D to C
Gliscor has its niche on certain stall teams as a status absorber/spreader, Guillotine trapper, and Defogger. It effortlessly switches in on metagame staples such as support Arceus sets, defensive Zygarde, Ho-Oh, and Groudon-Primal and threatens to retaliate with Sand Tomb + Guillotine. Its initial rank of D was too low to reflect the functionality it provides for making progress in matchups of attrition.
Drops
A to A-
A to A- (Normal)
A- to B+
A- to B+
B+ to B (Rock)
B+ to B
B+ to B
B+ to B
B to B-
B to B-
B- to C (Ghost)
B- to C
B- to C
D to UR
D to UR
D to UR
D to UR
D to UR
D to UR
D to UR
D to UR
D to UR
A to A-
While Arceus is nigh-mandatory on hyper offensive builds, it suffers on every other playstyle due to its complete lack of defensive utility; Marshadow/Celesteela's increase in usage since the end of USUM cements its drop. Extreme Killer balance is awkward to build and typically mandates specific partners like Arceus-Fairy and other countermeasures to bulky support Arceus formes. Xerneas generally struggles due to the more centralized nature of teambuilding in USUM AG following the end of the generation. While the Geomancy set remains a potent win condition, it is always well-prepared for and modern balances have more priority to deal with it than in the past. The predominant issue with the Geomancy set, however, is the relative difficulty it has in fitting on balance structures. While it nominally has defensive utility in checking some threats like Yveltal and Arceus-Dark, it is generally relied on as a win condition and must carefully manage its health due to lacking recovery. It maintains its position in A- largely due to the good utility the Choice Scarf set possesses in being a cleric and a solid form of speed control, while also spreading paralysis.
A- to B+
Lunala has seen its niche narrow considerably, especially on balance. The ubiquity of Pursuit Marshadow heavily restricts most Lunala sets as they are trapped and eliminated once Shadow Shield is broken. The defensive set suffers from this to an especially large degree as it frequently trades Toxic with Stealth Rock setters like Primal Groudon. As such, the only reliable remaining Lunala set on balance is Choice Specs, a relatively potent wallbreaker. Calm Mind Lunalium Z is threatening as well but restricted by Marshadow and Arceus-Dark to a greater extent and can only fit on Sticky Webs hyper offense builds, while Choice Scarf is very niche and generally outclassed by Choice Scarf Yveltal. Yveltal is in an awkward spot as it doesn't hit hard enough to justify its fragility, awkward speed tier, and Stealth Rock weakness. It faces stiff competition from fast Arceus formes that are able to effortlessly pivot into/set up on it and bulky pivots that it cannot break in one hit but can OHKO it back. Its defensive set is lackluster as well; unlike the other premier defensive bird, Ho-Oh, it's very prone to status and has to find time to Roost. It is also far more vulnerable to Outrage Ultra Necrozma than Arceus-Dark since it is OHKO'd after Stealth Rock damage by +2 Outrage and typically cannot fit Sucker Punch.
Excadrill has fallen off lately as the necessity of its niche as a suicide lead that sets rocks through Magic Bounce and Rapid Spins hazards slowly fades alongside the usage rates of Mega-Diancie and Mega-Sableye. There are better alternatives for suicide leads that reliably set Stealth Rocks and provide ample counterplay against the hazards that other Hyper Offense suicide leads might set. Furthermore, these alternatives do not give away that your team is a hyper offense team upon preview. Naganadel's drop has been long warranted; it is entirely relegated to specific hyper offensive teams that have an otherwise impossible stall matchup, and ironically enough, it tends to have an awful matchup against offensive builds. With the gold standard in modern balance being the Mega Rayquaza + Marshadow core, it often finds itself getting forced out by priority due to its fragility. As such, it struggles to make progress against most modern balance cores due to the necessity for it to set up with Nasty Plot before being able to deal an adequate amount of damage.
B- to C
Not only does Arceus-Ghost lack the power to break through support Arceus without its Z-move, but it fails to break through Arceus-Dark and gets forced out by Marshadow, draining valuable momentum on the hyper offense teams that it fits on. Non-Choice Scarf Kyogre sets get overshadowed by Kyogre-Primal's raw power and Choice Scarf Kyogre sets get shut down by Groudon-Primal's Desolate Sun. Additionally, Choice Scarf Kyogre sets are highly prone to Stealth Rock chip which decreases Water Spout's base damage with every switch-in. Magearna fills a niche of checking Xerneas and providing cleric support but often invites dangerous enemy breakers and Groudon-Primal in, effectively handing momentum over to your opponent and allowing them to set Stealth Rock for free. Notably, it lacks access to Toxic, which most other walls in AG can use to punish their checks.
I was told to wait to post this until after the VR update and then I kinda just forgot + got busy lol. I wrote most of this post before the update, and I spent too long on this post only to not post them (the out-of-date noms are spoilered). I didn't separate rises and drops because (***fake a reasoning here***). Usage stats used in this post may be a bit off due to how the eo program processes Arceus forms. With all of that out of the way, I got some thoughts for a couple of mons on the USUM VR.
Sorry for the double post. I'm not sure if there will be further updates, but I have a few cores that I'd like to submit for consideration to the USUM core compendium. It's pretty out-of-date and is not consistent with the current metagame. If not, then this post will just be some thoughts about some cores that are not already on the list. I wrote this while I was working on school and work stuff, so the wording and tone are so weird lol. For the sake of clarity, here is the most recent version of the compendium I could find:
Offensive Cores
Mega-Gengar + Zygarde-Complete
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane + Zygarde-Complete
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane + Mega-Rayquaza + Xerneas
Arceus-Fairy + Mega-Gengar + Marshadow
Deoxys-Attack + Tapu Lele
Primal-Kyogre + Mega-Rayquaza
Marshadow + Mega-Rayquaza
Arceus-Ground + Primal-Kyogre
Naganadel + Xerneas
Ultra-Necrozma + Xerneas
Balanced Cores
Arceus-Water + Primal-Groudon + Ho-Oh
Arceus-Dark + Arceus-Poison
Primal-Kyogre + Tyranitar
Arceus-Dark + Arceus-Fairy
Primal-Kyogre + Necrozma-Dusk-Mane
Defensive Cores
Arceus-Ground + Ferrothorn + Ho-Oh
Arceus-Fairy + Ferrothorn + Zygarde-Complete
Chansey + Skarmory + Tyranitar
Without further ado, here we go:
+
The pairing of Arceus-Steel + Mega-Rayquaza satisfies 2/3 of the parameters for the always excellent "fantasy" core, consisting of Dragon-, Fairy-, and Steel-typing.
Arceus-Steel bestows Mega-Rayquaza with a teammate that resists Dragon-, Fairy-, Flying-, Ice-, Normal-, Psychic-, Rock-, and Steel-type attacks while still being immune to Poison-type moves. This is particularly valuable as Arceus-Steel only takes 6.25% from Stealth Rock and is naturally immune to Toxic, meaning that Arceus-Steel is going to easily remain healthy throughout a game. As said in a previous post of mine, Arceus-Steel has a ton of devastating coverage options that allow the team to bend towards nearly any playstyle the builder desires.
+ +
Combine the cores of Arceus-Steel + Mega-Rayquaza and Marshadow + Mega-Rayquaza. Boom! New core!
Arceus-Steel beats a majority of the faster threats that immediately threaten Marshadow and Mega-Rayquaza, such as healthy Mewtwo, unscouted Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, and Choice Scarf users like Mega-Rayquaza, Xerneas, and Yveltal. Arceus-Steel halts most of the support Arceus forms, Celesteela, and Skarmory that would otherwise inhibit Marshadow from making much progress versus defensive responses, thanks to the Toxic immunity and option to carry Calm Mind + Fire Blast/Thunder.
Needless to say, I felt Arceus-Steel was underrepresented on the core compendium.
Arceus-Fairy switches into Fighting-, Fire-, and Ground-type attacks aimed at Arceus-Steel and can typically force at least a one-for-one. Fighting-type attacks, sans Close Combat from Marshadow, are pretty irrelevant, outside of Low Kick from the rare Mega-Mewtwo-X or occasional Focus Blast from Mega-Mewtwo-Y. Regarding Fire-types, Arceus-Fairy should be able to go at least one-for-one versus most Primal-Groudon, thanks to status-absorbing with Refresh or being a bulky user of Toxic. While Arceus-Fairy is unable to directly threaten the stupid bird, it can force Ho-Oh a rough spot by carrying Refresh or Stealth Rock + Toxic. Speaking of Refresh, a dual set-up core of Calm Mind + Refresh Arceus-Fairy + Calm Mind Arceus-Steel is also an excellent bulky core capable of outlasting and breaking through balanced teams without much issue. In addition to the previously mentioned Primal-Groudon, Arceus-Fairy is still a solid check to Arceus-Ground (thanks to Refresh, Toxic, or forcing decent chip with neutral Judgment versus sets lacking Recover) and Zygarde (thanks to its bulk, strong STAB attack, move pool, and ability to force Zygarde out and punish switch-ins).
The broken three. If Marshadow + Mega-Rayquaza is a great offensive core, the addition of Ultra-Necrozma turns the core into a suffocating offensive onslaught. This core is comically strong.
+2 248 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Outrage vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Arceus-Dark: 301-355 (67.9 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 248 SpA Necrozma-Ultra Dragon Pulse vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Dark: 214-253 (48.3 - 57.1%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO
+2 248 SpA Necrozma-Ultra Dragon Pulse vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Dark: 286-337 (64.5 - 76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Dread Plate Arceus-Dark Judgment vs. +2 0 HP / 8 SpD Necrozma-Ultra: 152-182 (45.3 - 54.3%) -- 48% chance to 2HKO
+1 216 SpA Mewtwo-Mega-Y Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Dark: 168-198 (37.9 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
216 SpA Mewtwo-Mega-Y Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Dark: 298-352 (67.2 - 79.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This is essentially what the two do with all of their checks. Both Mega-Mewtwo-Y and Ultra-Necrozma are prone to Marshadow, however the Marshadow user must win two 50-50 situations (Shadow Sneak versus Pursuit on an attack versus a switch-out) in order to successfully check the pair offensively. The pair breaks everything for each other.
+
Tyranitar offers Ultra-Necrozma a Dark-, Fire-, Flying-, Ghost-, and Psychic-type resistant switch-in that can Pursuit trap many of the best offensive checks to Ultra-Necrozma. In return, Ultra-Necrozma wins games for Tyranitar.
Ultra-Necrozma does not need any further introduction as the last two sections have thoroughly reinforced this.
+2 248 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Outrage vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Sableye-Mega: 291-343 (96 - 113.2%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
+1 248 SpA Necrozma-Ultra Dragon Pulse vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Sableye-Mega: 220-261 (72.6 - 86.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 248 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Outrage vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Arceus-Dark: 301-355 (67.9 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+
This is an interesting core with both offensive and defensive prowess. The pair covers revenge killing, has the option for two users of set-up, and provides a physical wall/special tank that eats every attack under the sun. Zygarde landing a Toxic on the correct target can set up for a fairly simple late-game Marshadow sweep.
Universally, there are about three or four methods that entry hazard setters will use to improve their matchup versus common hazard removers. Only three of these are applicable in the context of USUM AG and one is markedly more common than the remaining two: Taunt, set-up, and status.
While an excellent combination of utility moves to naturally have, the distribution of entry hazard + Taunt is limited to leads on hyper offensive teams, such as Aerodactyl, Deoxys-Attack, Deoxys-Speed, and Lycanroc(?). While neither Giratina nor Gliscor typically beat these offensive lead hazard setters, they can be shut down very easily with other common defensive teammates, such as Mega-Sableye or a user of Magic Coat.
In return, Giratina is a status-inducing, bulky Defogger with solid typing. While these traits can also be applied to Ho-Oh, Giratina offers better type synergy when being paired with Gliscor. Given the natural general bulk and typing afforded to Giratina, it can Defog in situations that Gliscor would otherwise not be able, such as against Ice Beam Arceus, special attack-invested Primal-Groudon, or Calm Mind Primal-Kyogre.
+1 252 SpA Arceus-Ground Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 52 SpD Giratina: 226-268 (44.9 - 53.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 SpA Arceus-Ground Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 208+ SpD Giratina: 182-216 (36.1 - 42.9%) -- 96.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Arceus-Water Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 52 SpD Giratina: 124-148 (24.6 - 29.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Arceus-Water Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 208+ SpD Giratina: 100-118 (19.8 - 23.4%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 52 SpD Giratina: 338-398 (67.1 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 208+ SpD Giratina: 272-320 (54 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Groudon-Primal Eruption (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 52 SpD Giratina in Harsh Sunshine: 183-216 (36.3 - 42.9%) -- 97.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Groudon-Primal Eruption (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 208+ SpD Giratina in Harsh Sunshine: 147-174 (29.2 - 34.5%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+
As documented in a previous post of mine, Calm Mind + Stealth Rock Arceus-Steel + Giratina is a balanced core that stonewalls defensive teams. The pair frees up the four remaining team slots by compressing hazard setting, hazard removing, and set-up roles, making for a fairly simple win-condition.
As stated in a previous section, Arceus-Steel is largely resilient against chip damage and can effectively sit on most Defoggers, thanks to its Stealth Rock resistance, Toxic immunity, and ability to boost with Calm Mind. Against Defoggers that are unable to force it out, Arceus-Steel can threaten a Calm Mind-boosted Judgment or just set up Stealth Rock again. Arceus-Steel provides Giratina with a check to Arceus-Dark, Mega-Gengar, Mega-Rayquaza, and Xerneas, as well as a counter to Arceus-Fairy and Yveltal. Arceus-Steel notably boosts alongside opposing Calm Mind Arceus (barring Arceus-Ground) that would otherwise be given set-up opportunity on Giratina.
Hey, I'm AD and in this post, I'll give an overall description of Yveltal, and would go through Yveltal's different sets in detail (which are pretty heat), and I'll try to explain why they're as good as Ho-Oh or DarkCeus. This is more or less an Yveltal primer, and I've been wanting to do a long post since so long, and I'm actually outraged by the Yveltal drop, so yeah. Working on this since October, glad it came out well. Post is not complete, btw, I'll add more later.
B+ rank have a more specific function in the metagame that they are capable of fulfilling quite well. While they boast great capabilities, they require more support to work than A- rank Pokemon. These Pokemon are limited to specific roles/archetypes and/or require a lot of support to be utilized properly.
A- rank Pokemon have glaring flaws but maintain unique capabilities that enable them to be large threats in the current meta, creating powerful offensive/defensive pairings. Pokemon in this rank will require support to be utilized properly.
That's it for my Yveltal description, thanks for reading.
Part 2: Yveltal's Sets
Over here I'll talk about the different sets of Yveltal, a nice number of them actually, some underrated, some common, and how it can cater to a lot of your team's needs. The versatility and customisability of Yveltal is amazing.
Following AG's creation in early ORAS as containment for Mega-Rayquaza, Arceus emerged as the most prominent beneficiary of the lack of species clause. As mentioned before, this was due to Arceus's unmatched speed, bulk, utility, and offensive prowess. Arceus comes in 18 different flavors, each with their own nuances, so let's start with the traits that apply to all forms of Arceus: it's base stats, ability, typing, and movepool.
0 SpA Iron Plate Arceus-Steel Judgment vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rayquaza-Mega: 151-178 (43 - 50.7%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Iron Plate Arceus-Steel Judgment vs. -1 0 HP / 0 SpD Rayquaza-Mega: 228-268 (64.9 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Iron Plate Arceus-Steel Judgment vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Darkrai: 165-195 (58.5 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Iron Plate Arceus-Steel Judgment vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 129-153 (33.8 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Iron Plate Arceus-Steel Judgment vs. 12 HP / 48 SpD Zygarde-Complete: 150-177 (26 - 30.7%) -- 2.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery (guaranteed to break Substitute)
0 SpA Iron Plate Arceus-Steel Judgment vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Marshadow: 165-195 (51.4 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Iron Plate Arceus-Steel Judgment vs. -1 0 HP / 0 SpD Marshadow: 247-292 (76.9 - 90.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Iron Plate Arceus-Steel Judgment vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zacian-Crowned: 135-159 (41.5 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Iron Plate Arceus-Steel Judgment vs. -1 0 HP / 0 SpD Zacian-Crowned: 202-238 (62.1 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Iron Plate Arceus-Steel Judgment vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Calyrex-Shadow: 151-178 (44.2 - 52.1%) -- 16% chance to 2HKO
A unique mechanic regarding Arceus needs to be addressed for newcomers to the format: Standard AG metagames exist only in generations in which team preview is enabled. Team preview does not reveal Arceus's typing, only appearing as Arceus-Normal until said Arceus has been sent out onto the field. While an unrevealed Arceus typing will never be a guaranteed conclusion, this unique dynamic rewards players for scouting and forcing switches, as well as having knowledge of the metagame. To put it another way, an un-scouted late-game Calm Mind or Swords Dance Arceus of a specific typing may very easily result in a potential sweep.
Bulldoze, Icy Wind, Liquidation, Poison Jab, Rock Tomb, Snarl
Physical
Earthquake, Stone Edge
Avalanche, Brick Break, Facade, Frustration, Giga Impact, Iron Head, Last Resort, Outrage, Return, Shadow Claw, Shadow Force
Special
Earth Power, Fire Blast, Ice Beam, Judgment (see note below), Thunder
Grass Knot, Focus Blast
Judgment is Arceus's signature move. It provides Arceus with a consistent (100% accuracy), high base power attack (100 base Ă— 1.5x STAB Ă— 1.2x Plate = 180 BP) with good usability (16 PP) of variable typing (changes type to match the Plate Arceus equips).
With these defined traits, we can discuss the fit of Arceus and its many forms on different playstyles. I'll limit this discussion to a single sentence summary for each Arceus type, given that this post is already way too long lol. I'll give an attempt at a quantifiable value of each typing's summative placement across the most up-to-date version of the three VR's (UR=0, D=1, …, S-=9, S=10), as well as the playstyles on which each form is typically found and the sets for which each type will usually run. "?" indicates guessing as there is very little data (i.e.- the form is kinda bad lol). Again, I plan on posting a further analysis about the role of each Arceus type in each metagame, but that will come at a later date.
Type
Numerical Value
Sets
Playstyles
Arceus-Bug
0/30
Support?
Bulky offense?
Arceus-Dark
16/30
Support, Perish Trap, Calm Mind + Refresh
Bulky offense, balance, semistall, stall
Arceus-Dragon
5/30
Support
Bulky offense, balance
Arceus-Electric
3/30
Calm Mind + coverage
Rarely support
Hyper offense, semistall
Arceus-Fairy
19/30
Support, Calm Mind + Refresh/coverage, offensive lead
Hyper offense, bulky offense, balance, semistall
Arceus-Fighting
0/30
Calm Mind + coverage?
Bulky offense?
Arceus-Fire
0/30
Support, Calm Mind + coverage?
Bulky offense, balance?
Arceus-Flying
3/30
Calm Mind + Refresh, support
Hyper offense, bulky offense
Arceus-Ghost
11/30
Swords Dance
Rarely support
Hyper offense, bulky offense
Occasionally balance
Arceus-Grass
2/30
Support
Balance
Occasionally bulky offense, semistall
Arceus-Ground
24/30
Calm Mind + coverage, Swords Dance, support, offensive lead
Hyper offense, bulky offense, balance, semistall
Arceus-Ice
0/30
Calm Mind + coverage?
Rarely Swords Dance?
Hyper offense?
Arceus-Normal
23/30
Swords Dance
Rarely support
Hyper offense, bulky offense
Occasionally balance
Arceus-Poison
13/30
Support, Perish Trap
Bulky offense, balance
Arceus-Psychic
0/30
Support?
Bulky offense, balance?
Arceus-Rock
15/30
Support, Calm Mind + Refresh/coverage
Rarely Swords Dance
Balance, semistall
Occasionally bulky offense
Arceus-Steel
17/30
Calm Mind + coverage
Rarely support
Bulky offense, balance, semistall, stall
Arceus-Water
21/30
Support, Perish Trap
Rarely Calm Mind + coverage, Swords Dance
While Arceus may become any type thanks to Multitype, it's required to hold a Plate or Z-Crystal to perform this action (Arceus-Normal notwithstanding). While these items are nice, they restrict Arceus from holding other useful items, such as Heavy-Duty Boots, Leftovers, Life Orb, Rocky Helmet, Safety Goggles, Shed Shell, or a weakness-halving berry.
Mega-Gengar out-speeds Arceus and can hit it hard with STAB Shadow Ball, Sludge Bomb, or Sludge Wave, or use strong coverage moves in Focus Blast or Thunder. Arceus with a single attacking move are additionally prone to Perish Trap Mega-Gengar (Disable + Perish Song + Substitute) in USUM (and occasionally ORAS). Mega-Gengar gained access to Encore in generation VIII, which can be used to force an opposing Dynamax to break the trap, boost with Nasty Plot (also gained in generation VIII!) to potentially sweep, or force Struggle recoil between Disable + Encore mechanics.
This is an issue limited strictly to Swords Dance Arceus. Earthquake, Extreme Speed, and Stone Edge are all serviceable attacks while Facade, Giga Impact, Iron Head, Last Resort, Liquidation, or Shadow Force can function on specific Swords Dance Arceus variants. Outside of these options however, Arceus has a limited physical movepool. The remaining options are either of low base power (Brick Break, Shadow Claw), are unreliable (Avalanche, Fly, Outrage) or are just poor type coverage (everything else). Arceus most notably lacks physical Electric-, Fairy-, and Fire-type moves and would appreciate upgrades in physical Fighting-, Flying-, Ghost-, and Ice-type coverage options. This does cause Swords Dance Arceus to be somewhat outclassed by physical sweepers with better coverage, such as Marshadow, Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, Ultra-Necrozma, Mega-Rayquaza, and Zacian-Crowned.
Admittedly a small knock against Arceus. While Arceus does offer amazing versatility in Stealth Rock, hazard prevention/removal, phasing, status absorbing, status spreading, and pseudo-trapping, it does lack utility moves that are more common in other metagames. Arceus's movepool is missing options like Pursuit, Taunt, pivoting, self-fainting moves, cleric moves (Aromatherapy/Heal Bell/Wish), and viable multi-hit moves (such as Icicle Spear or Tail Slap). Due to these gaps in utility moves, Arceus can find itself glanced over for slots on certain teams.
My next post like this will detail the role of each Arceus type in each of the three metagames. That means there is going to be 54 sections, so give me some time lol. I got school and life stuff going on. Until then, be good people!
Ok call me crazy, but is there an AG rule set for gens not named 4, 6, 7 or 8? I recently discovered Nintendo Cup '97 and loved the no restrictions - and are curious as to other gens without actual mons in Anything Goes that have a meta for it anyways
Ok call me crazy, but is there an AG rule set for gens not named 4, 6, 7 or 8? I recently discovered Nintendo Cup '97 and loved the no restrictions - and are curious as to other gens without actual mons in Anything Goes that have a meta for it anyways
The Anything Goes room currently has an rfaq that allows roomstaff to create tournaments for Gen 5 Anything Goes but that's about it. I'm able to make these more accessible later on and have challenge codes made since there is some demand for them.
imo Gens 1-3 Anything Goes are not really feasible for various reasons regarding the state of their games at full force though.
The Anything Goes room currently has an rfaq that allows roomstaff to create tournaments for Gen 5 Anything Goes but that's about it. I'm able to make these more accessible later on and have challenge codes made since there is some demand for them.
imo Gens 1-3 Anything Goes are not really feasible for various reasons regarding the state of their games at full force though.
Welcome to the Anything Goes Old Gens Hub. This thread is intended to be a resource for new and experienced players hoping to journey into previous generations of Anything Goes. This thread currently contains resources from Generations 6 (ORAS) and 7 (USUM).
The main goal of this thread is to act as a resource; however, discussion on previous generations of AG is permitted as well. This resource may help in future multi-generation tournaments or just for casual tournaments held within the Anything Goes Showdown chatroom.
Please try to keep discussion civil and on topic. Additionally, please, no one-liner posts.
Rayquaza-Mega
Arceus
Xerneas
Darkrai
Gengar-Mega
Groudon-Primal
Yveltal
Ho-Oh
Kyogre-Primal
Skarmory
Klefki
Lugia
Clefable
Deoxys-Speed
Diancie-Mega
Giratina
Mewtwo
Sableye-Mega
Blissey
Chansey
Deoxys-Attack
Ferrothorn
Giratina-Origin
Groudon
Quagsire
Excadrill
Jirachi
Kyogre
Mewtwo-Mega-Y
Smeargle
Dialga
Ditto
Genesect
Gothitelle
Mewtwo-Mega-X
Shuckle
Scolipede
Terrakion
Tyranitar
Breloom
Bronzong
Landorus-Therian
Shedinja
Zekrom
Amoonguss
Cloyster
Gliscor
Kyurem-White
Salamence-Mega
Tyranitar-Mega
Wobbuffet
Blaziken
Drifblim
Espeon
Mew
Mr. Mime
Vaporeon
Eevee
Krookodile
Lopunny-Mega
Whimsicott
Zoroark
.
B+ to A- (Steel)
B+ to A-
A+ to S-
A- to A
B+ to A-
D to C
A- to B+
B+ to B (Rock)
B to B-
B- to C (Ghost)
B- to C
D to UR
D to UR
D to UR
A to A-
B+ to B
B to B-
B- to C
D to UR
+ 
+ 
+ 
+ 
or
or
/ 
/ 
