That's the issue, not reduced SpA
Evire and Magmortar suck though, realistically there's just no reason to use them. If you want a gen 4 added evolution that's normally relegated for lower tiers, rhyperior is way more legit of a shitmon
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Evire and Magmortar suck though, realistically there's just no reason to use them. If you want a gen 4 added evolution that's normally relegated for lower tiers, rhyperior is way more legit of a shitmon
Check out the shiny new AG room @ https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/anythinggoes 
Figured I'd start posting here as it's getting inactive. For my first post, what are peoples' thoughts on stall in this meta? I've gotten fairly high with it, getting up to top 10 (i think), and it's pretty fun. It's been an interesting experience, as people don't seem that mad to run into it. I guess when compared to Klefki spam and the like, stall isn't that bad anymore. Obviously it's still a nuisance that has to be accounted for, but do people still hate it as much as they do in a tier like OU, where stall is the bane of the ladder?
its pretty simple. people dont hate stall in ag because our stallbreakers are so ridiculously strong. got a problem with stall? perish trap gar invalidates most forms of it. band ray comes in, gets a kill, repeats. stall teams lacking clefable drop to sub rai, and other stall teams with it lose to lorb rai. yes, stall can /sort of/ account for these things, but it can't account for everything and while it can't in ou and other tiers either, there's just so much more to account for in ag. the power of the stallbreakers increase while the bulk of most stall mons don't.
Yeah, I may be one of the most stally AG players but I've got to say, I view it as a good way to cteam your opponent rather than a good playstyle in general. Stall will never be a great playstyle given the number of stallbreakers that do well vs. offense as well, however if you can guess what your opponent's likely to bring then a certain stall core, backed up by appropriate support, can give you a good advantage. Here's a good example of how stall can be used as a cteam: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/anythinggoes-332081550
Here's a weird set of questions I have to ask people. Just curious on the thoughts of others and after debate in the ag room, wondering whether ppl have informed opinions about these matters.
1) Judgment or Spacial Rend on Dragon Arceus?
Judgment has 100% accuracy
Spacial Rend has 95% accuracy but a high Crit ratio.
Both have 100 BP.
Spacial Rend has 8 less PP.
To me the answer seems to be Judgment as it's more reliable and lasts longer however I've been trying out Rend because I like trying dumb sht and the crit ratio has saved me more than the accuracy has lost me.
2) What fire coverage move should Extreme Killer run if needed?
Flamethrower has 90 BP and 100% acc
Fire Blast has 110 BP, has 85% acc
Overheat has 130 BP but drops SpA by -2
On Skarm, Flamethrower will ensure a 2hko but Fire Blast is enough to cripple it to a nice sweet spot. Overheat kills Skarm after rocks but sturdy can ensure roost stalling if not. What should we be using? Overheat seems to be most popular.
3) Is Refresh Silk Scarf Extreme Killer Arceus comparable to Lum or Life Orb Extreme Killer Arceus?
The former is a recognised Ubers set however the prevalence of status abusers Klefki, Darkrai, etc makes me ponder if it's at all considerable in ag or just not worth the extra move slot.
4) Due to the lack of Leppa berry prevention, extreme PP stalling strategies have began to arise such as Thimo's Ingrain Trevanent that uses Leppa Harvest to provide itself with a constant flow of PP. Protect and Substitute spam can work out here if the right circumstances are met. Are these strategies viable enough to be considered proper strategy or are they just shtty gimmicks?
5) Do Mono Klefki teams still run HP Water?
I haven't seen a Numel since like the beginning of AG. Do Klefki teams still prepare for it?
1) Judgment or Spacial Rend on Dragon Arceus?
Judgment has 100% accuracy
Spacial Rend has 95% accuracy but a high Crit ratio.
Both have 100 BP.
Spacial Rend has 8 less PP.
To me the answer seems to be Judgment as it's more reliable and lasts longer however I've been trying out Rend because I like trying dumb sht and the crit ratio has saved me more than the accuracy has lost me.
2) What fire coverage move should Extreme Killer run if needed?
Flamethrower has 90 BP and 100% acc
Fire Blast has 110 BP, has 85% acc
Overheat has 130 BP but drops SpA by -2
On Skarm, Flamethrower will ensure a 2hko but Fire Blast is enough to cripple it to a nice sweet spot. Overheat kills Skarm after rocks but sturdy can ensure roost stalling if not. What should we be using? Overheat seems to be most popular.
3) Is Refresh Silk Scarf Extreme Killer Arceus comparable to Lum or Life Orb Extreme Killer Arceus?
The former is a recognised Ubers set however the prevalence of status abusers Klefki, Darkrai, etc makes me ponder if it's at all considerable in ag or just not worth the extra move slot.
4) Due to the lack of Leppa berry prevention, extreme PP stalling strategies have began to arise such as Thimo's Ingrain Trevanent that uses Leppa Harvest to provide itself with a constant flow of PP. Protect and Substitute spam can work out here if the right circumstances are met. Are these strategies viable enough to be considered proper strategy or are they just shtty gimmicks?
5) Do Mono Klefki teams still run HP Water?
I haven't seen a Numel since like the beginning of AG. Do Klefki teams still prepare for it?
1. Judgement is best special arceus forme stab period. 120 bp after stab with plate boost and is reliable(not like fire blast and its friends).
2. Overheat. I hate fire blast(i already missed will o wisps and knows how it feels) and flamethrower is roostable(?(2hko in what %?)).
3. Probably. Silked Espeed is stronk. Refresh kills pesky burns infinitely(though unconventional)
4. gimmick/10. Statusable(before sub), and can kill when it setups. Never saw it in combat but shouldn't be so hard.
5. It should in monoklef teams. 1/6 klef sacrifice is no big deal.
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1. I've tried both, but spacial rend just isn't enough better to justify the lack of PP. If they had the same yes, definitely, but as it is it isn't worthwhile.
2. Fire blast, for me. Its basically superior in my experience, although that might just be be because I use a life orb. With life orb, it ohko's after rocks, and isn't as crippled by the seconf attack missing (while overheat now fails to break skarm)
3. No, definitely not. Lum beats keys 1v1 100% of the time, beats Darkrai, and still stops a burn; Life orb can do things like OHKO ekiller at +4, have a shot at ohkoing MRay at +2, and have a shot at OHKOing yveltal at +2 (20% factoring in accuracy). Silk scarf refresh, however, takes a valuable coverage slot, doesn't valuable increase your damage, doesn't stop confusion, and fails vs the best status users like Klefki and Darkrai. If you wanted status immunity, you are probably better off with magic coat or even safeguard.
4. No, its terrible and should feel bad. The only remotely viable user is Shaymin-S, and it still loses to Ekiller. Protect stall can be decent on pokes like clefable/chansey that run it with wish and thus don't waste a slot, but no one should use it elsewhere.
5. No, absolutely not. Klefki has far superior strategies to beat Numel such as Switcheroo, calm mind, and not fighting josh
2. Fire blast, for me. Its basically superior in my experience, although that might just be be because I use a life orb. With life orb, it ohko's after rocks, and isn't as crippled by the seconf attack missing (while overheat now fails to break skarm)
3. No, definitely not. Lum beats keys 1v1 100% of the time, beats Darkrai, and still stops a burn; Life orb can do things like OHKO ekiller at +4, have a shot at ohkoing MRay at +2, and have a shot at OHKOing yveltal at +2 (20% factoring in accuracy). Silk scarf refresh, however, takes a valuable coverage slot, doesn't valuable increase your damage, doesn't stop confusion, and fails vs the best status users like Klefki and Darkrai. If you wanted status immunity, you are probably better off with magic coat or even safeguard.
4. No, its terrible and should feel bad. The only remotely viable user is Shaymin-S, and it still loses to Ekiller. Protect stall can be decent on pokes like clefable/chansey that run it with wish and thus don't waste a slot, but no one should use it elsewhere.
5. No, absolutely not. Klefki has far superior strategies to beat Numel such as Switcheroo, calm mind, and not fighting josh
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1.Judgment is what i like, has more PP and seriously I can afford misses although having a high critical hit ratio is good.
2.Overheat, cause I wont think skarmory's user can even prdict such a move on it.After that, just like a move "Extreme Speed"
3.Will update this after using silk scarf ceus.
4.I guess My lum arceus 1v1 that pro+wish clefable is the most annoying I find as I can't set up and also it can easily pp stall it out.
5.No I guess, Because who in the ladder is using that numel stuff.
Quantum Tesseract , Darkrai , not Barkrai ;o
2.Overheat, cause I wont think skarmory's user can even prdict such a move on it.After that, just like a move "Extreme Speed"
3.Will update this after using silk scarf ceus.
4.I guess My lum arceus 1v1 that pro+wish clefable is the most annoying I find as I can't set up and also it can easily pp stall it out.
5.No I guess, Because who in the ladder is using that numel stuff.
Quantum Tesseract , Darkrai , not Barkrai ;o
Jugdment. Don't want to hold my hair in excitement every time I go for a stab move, and I don't have to.
If Flamethrower is a 2hko on the switch in, it takes the spot. Also would be curious to know the damage on Ferro
(Just use fucking SE + EQ)
Doesn't need refresh. Won't be useful because most wisp users carry roar or something. Silk Scarf is better suited to hit things that it can as hard as it can and have decent coverage while doing that. Rather go for frustration. Or facade, if you're bothered by wisp so much.
They are shit till someone proves otherwise.
How bored are you?
1. Judgment, mainly because of the PP. 8 PP is too low for a mon with such defensive utility.
2. 4- SpA Life Orb Arceus Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 289-341 (86.5 - 102%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
I don't see a reason to run Overheat TBH, with SR Fire Blast also OHKOs and without SR Overheat is worse since it can be Roost stalled.
3. I run Arceus-Fairy as my Extremekiller check, so I've been screwed by this set multiple times. Wouldn't help against Giratina though. If you really hate Wallceus you can use it I guess, it's not bad, but in general I'd value Lum or LO/coverage more.
4. I'm having trouble figuring out what you can set up against. Pretty much everything kills Trevenant. Maybe stuff like Lugia/Wallceus if you time your Block/Ingrain right? Besides, it seems easy enough to prevent once you know what it's doing. I'll be sceptical until I see replays against decent opponents.
5. I haven't used a Klefki team but I hope not, Numel is #397 on usage and it's even lower, like #500ish in lower brackets. Seems like a waste of a slot.
2. 4- SpA Life Orb Arceus Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 289-341 (86.5 - 102%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
I don't see a reason to run Overheat TBH, with SR Fire Blast also OHKOs and without SR Overheat is worse since it can be Roost stalled.
3. I run Arceus-Fairy as my Extremekiller check, so I've been screwed by this set multiple times. Wouldn't help against Giratina though. If you really hate Wallceus you can use it I guess, it's not bad, but in general I'd value Lum or LO/coverage more.
4. I'm having trouble figuring out what you can set up against. Pretty much everything kills Trevenant. Maybe stuff like Lugia/Wallceus if you time your Block/Ingrain right? Besides, it seems easy enough to prevent once you know what it's doing. I'll be sceptical until I see replays against decent opponents.
5. I haven't used a Klefki team but I hope not, Numel is #397 on usage and it's even lower, like #500ish in lower brackets. Seems like a waste of a slot.
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1. Judgment, I play alot of long battles (100+ turns) and I really can not afford my PP running out. Also don't wanna lose because of the miss chance.
2. Flamethrower, Skarmory isn't doing anything back most of the time.
3. Refresh shouldn't be used in a meta filled with status abusers, or you will find yourself refreshing more than do actual stuff in my opinion.
4. Viability 7/10, allow me to explain. Most people do not prepare for these kind of shenanigans. Some have teams that straight up counter these strategies, but they aren't common at all! I'll leave a replay for people that are confused what Zangooser means with this question. http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/anythinggoes-357788513 (this guy wasn't good btw but only replay I could find)
5. I don't use Klefki teams most of the time, but when I do. I make sure I have at least 1 HP Water :)
2. Flamethrower, Skarmory isn't doing anything back most of the time.
3. Refresh shouldn't be used in a meta filled with status abusers, or you will find yourself refreshing more than do actual stuff in my opinion.
4. Viability 7/10, allow me to explain. Most people do not prepare for these kind of shenanigans. Some have teams that straight up counter these strategies, but they aren't common at all! I'll leave a replay for people that are confused what Zangooser means with this question. http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/anythinggoes-357788513 (this guy wasn't good btw but only replay I could find)
5. I don't use Klefki teams most of the time, but when I do. I make sure I have at least 1 HP Water :)
Guys I present you a criminally underused set:
Deoxys-Attack @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Psycho Boost
- Superpower
- Thunderbolt
- Trick / Extremespeed / Dark Pulse
Specs Deoxys-A hits hard. Like, "OHKO 252 HP Arceus" hard. Whenever it comes in, it'll probably get a kill. Most people expect some sort of lead set with SR/Spikes/Taunt when they see it, which is great, because then you flat out OHKO 2 common leads, defensive Arceus and Groudon-Primal, as they Magic Coat or SR or some shit:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 412-486 (93 - 109.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 200 SpD Primal Groudon: 427-504 (105.6 - 124.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Having a Deo-A in the wings is having a blanket revenge killer against pretty much anything that doesn't boost its speed or doesn't have Sub or priority (so, like, half of the tier), and even specially bulky things like Primal Kyogre or Ho-Oh fall with some prior damage. Everything else, like, flat-out dies.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Ho-Oh: 280-330 (67.4 - 79.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Primal Kyogre: 319-376 (79.1 - 93.3%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
What it also shines as is an Extremekiller partner. Very few things want to switch into a Specs Psycho Boost: Lugia, Yveltal and the odd Mega Sableye. What you might have noticed is, these are also Extremekiller checks, and they are all crippled severely (or killed) by Thunderbolt:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-A Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Yveltal: 418-492 (91.8 - 108.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-A Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Lugia: 142-168 (34.1 - 40.3%) -- 41.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-A Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Lugia: 284-336 (68.2 - 80.7%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-A Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Mega Sableye: 182-215 (60 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
There's no point in running Thunder because Thunderbolt or Psycho Boost get all the 2HKO/OHKOs you need and missing sucks for such a frail mon. Superpower is there for Darkrai and Chansey. Last slot doesn't really matter, Trick is there if you want to switch moves late-game or screw Klefki (Psycho Boost/TBolt both 2HKO but you don't want to try and get that second hit in after it switches in), Extremespeed can kill a crippled Extremekiller/MegaRay/GeoXern etc late game, Dark Pulse is mostly redundant coverage but it's there if you want to cover your bases and really hate rare stuff like Aegislash/Timid MMY/scarf Jirachi and want to OHKO them on the switch-in.
I haven't taken many replays but just a few:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/anythinggoes-374787836 << kills Arceus lead turn 1, lures and kills Yveltal turn 6
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/anythinggoes-374780134 << leaves opposing lead Arceus-Fairy at %1 making it unusable for the rest of the game turn 1, comes in on a revenge-kill and forces non-Extremespeed SD Arceus-Ground out, forces the opponent to sac said Arceus-Fairy turn 19, OHKOs said SD Arceus-Ground at turn 36 for the win
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/anythinggoes-374700963 << OHKOs Groudon-Primal turn 1
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/anythinggoes-373974367 << kills Lugia, could've turned the game around if it carried Extremespeed
Deoxys-Attack @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Psycho Boost
- Superpower
- Thunderbolt
- Trick / Extremespeed / Dark Pulse
Specs Deoxys-A hits hard. Like, "OHKO 252 HP Arceus" hard. Whenever it comes in, it'll probably get a kill. Most people expect some sort of lead set with SR/Spikes/Taunt when they see it, which is great, because then you flat out OHKO 2 common leads, defensive Arceus and Groudon-Primal, as they Magic Coat or SR or some shit:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 412-486 (93 - 109.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 200 SpD Primal Groudon: 427-504 (105.6 - 124.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Having a Deo-A in the wings is having a blanket revenge killer against pretty much anything that doesn't boost its speed or doesn't have Sub or priority (so, like, half of the tier), and even specially bulky things like Primal Kyogre or Ho-Oh fall with some prior damage. Everything else, like, flat-out dies.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Ho-Oh: 280-330 (67.4 - 79.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Primal Kyogre: 319-376 (79.1 - 93.3%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
What it also shines as is an Extremekiller partner. Very few things want to switch into a Specs Psycho Boost: Lugia, Yveltal and the odd Mega Sableye. What you might have noticed is, these are also Extremekiller checks, and they are all crippled severely (or killed) by Thunderbolt:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-A Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Yveltal: 418-492 (91.8 - 108.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-A Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Lugia: 142-168 (34.1 - 40.3%) -- 41.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-A Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Lugia: 284-336 (68.2 - 80.7%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-A Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Mega Sableye: 182-215 (60 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
There's no point in running Thunder because Thunderbolt or Psycho Boost get all the 2HKO/OHKOs you need and missing sucks for such a frail mon. Superpower is there for Darkrai and Chansey. Last slot doesn't really matter, Trick is there if you want to switch moves late-game or screw Klefki (Psycho Boost/TBolt both 2HKO but you don't want to try and get that second hit in after it switches in), Extremespeed can kill a crippled Extremekiller/MegaRay/GeoXern etc late game, Dark Pulse is mostly redundant coverage but it's there if you want to cover your bases and really hate rare stuff like Aegislash/Timid MMY/scarf Jirachi and want to OHKO them on the switch-in.
I haven't taken many replays but just a few:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/anythinggoes-374787836 << kills Arceus lead turn 1, lures and kills Yveltal turn 6
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/anythinggoes-374780134 << leaves opposing lead Arceus-Fairy at %1 making it unusable for the rest of the game turn 1, comes in on a revenge-kill and forces non-Extremespeed SD Arceus-Ground out, forces the opponent to sac said Arceus-Fairy turn 19, OHKOs said SD Arceus-Ground at turn 36 for the win
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/anythinggoes-374700963 << OHKOs Groudon-Primal turn 1
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/anythinggoes-373974367 << kills Lugia, could've turned the game around if it carried Extremespeed
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does this really work in a meta filled with extremespeed?Guys I present you a criminally underused set:
Deoxys-Attack @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Psycho Boost
- Superpower
- Thunderbolt
- Trick / Extremespeed / Dark Pulse
Specs Deoxys-A hits hard. Like, "OHKO 252 HP Arceus" hard. Whenever it comes in, it'll probably get a kill. Most people expect some sort of lead set with SR/Spikes/Taunt when they see it, which is great, because then you flat out OHKO 2 common leads, defensive Arceus and Groudon-Primal, as they Magic Coat or SR or some shit:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 412-486 (93 - 109.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 200 SpD Primal Groudon: 427-504 (105.6 - 124.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Having a Deo-A in the wings is having a blanket revenge killer against pretty much anything that doesn't boost its speed or doesn't have Sub or priority (so, like, half of the tier), and even specially bulky things like Primal Kyogre or Ho-Oh fall with some prior damage. Everything else, like, flat-out dies.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Ho-Oh: 280-330 (67.4 - 79.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Primal Kyogre: 319-376 (79.1 - 93.3%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
What it also shines as is an Extremekiller partner. Very few things want to switch into a Specs Psycho Boost: Lugia, Yveltal and the odd Mega Sableye. What you might have noticed is, these are also Extremekiller checks, and they are all crippled severely (or killed) by Thunderbolt:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-A Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Yveltal: 418-492 (91.8 - 108.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-A Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Lugia: 142-168 (34.1 - 40.3%) -- 41.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-A Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Lugia: 284-336 (68.2 - 80.7%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-A Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Mega Sableye: 182-215 (60 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
There's no point in running Thunder because Thunderbolt or Psycho Boost get all the 2HKO/OHKOs you need and missing sucks for such a frail mon. Superpower is there for Darkrai and Chansey. Last slot doesn't really matter, Trick is there if you want to switch moves late-game or screw Klefki (Psycho Boost/TBolt both 2HKO but you don't want to try and get that second hit in after it switches in), Extremespeed can kill a crippled Extremekiller/MegaRay/GeoXern etc late game, Dark Pulse is mostly redundant coverage but it's there if you want to cover your bases and really hate rare stuff like Aegislash/Timid MMY/scarf Jirachi and want to OHKO them on the switch-in.
I haven't taken many replays but just a few:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/anythinggoes-374787836 << kills Arceus lead turn 1, lures and kills Yveltal turn 6
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/anythinggoes-374780134 << leaves opposing lead Arceus-Fairy at %1 making it unusable for the rest of the game turn 1, comes in on a revenge-kill and forces non-Extremespeed SD Arceus-Ground out, forces the opponent to sac said Arceus-Fairy turn 19, OHKOs said SD Arceus-Ground at turn 36 for the win
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/anythinggoes-374700963 << OHKOs Groudon-Primal turn 1
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/anythinggoes-373974367 << kills Lugia, could've turned the game around if it carried Extremespeed
Well
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Guys I present you a criminally underused set:
Deoxys-Attack @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Psycho Boost
- Superpower
- Thunderbolt
- Trick / Extremespeed / Dark Pulse
I've fought you a couple times on the ladder (on various Pigeon alts) and I have to agree that it's a pretty cool wallbreaker. Extreme Speed is probably the best option in the last slot for the reasons you stated, Trick is cool and all but won't get use against quite a few teams and the loss of power from it might be more detrimental than anything else. ESpeed is definitely this set's biggest weakness, especially because it lacks a Sash.
In Generation IV, Game Freak introduced an event legendary with nice stats, a decent offensive typing and such an elegant movepool, including its signature move Dark Void. It was quickly moved to the Ubers tier, swiftly becoming a top tier threat. However, it had one drawback that prevented it from being such a potent threat; the Sleep Clause. Even with this clause, Darkrai continued to be an incredibly useful attacking force for three generations, retaining its status as the dangerous Pokemon it's known to be. When Anything Goes was created, there was no Sleep Clause existent so Darkrai was free to abuse Dark Void to its fullest potential. Without a Sleep Clause it would only make sense that Darkrai would be a much more potent threat, however not only has its effect on the metagame changed; it has also achieved a different usage method.
Substitute
With the ability to induce sleep on multiple Pokémon comes the necessity to gain some form of protection to allow it to Dark Void multiple Pokémon seamlessly. By giving it this extra layer of defense, Darkrai can disable the opposing team without receiving major damage due to its relatively low defensive stats. Priority being omnipresent within the Anything Goes metagame means that Darkrai benefits immensely from having a way to shield incoming Extreme Killer Arceus and Mega Rayquaza. Substitute provides it with this defensive backbone, it would otherwise not have.
This of course leaves two moves, that can vary between sets.
Attacks:
Status:
Other Less Viable Options:
Overall Substitute Darkrai is an incredibly diverse Pokémon with a plethora of alternate options. Rather than just read about all the combinations, why not try some yourself. Who knows, maybe you'll find a nice option not listed above, or potentially a different combination. Have fun preparing for Darkrai!
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I should've posted this centuries ago, when AG was first created. This set was used by me to check the Klefki overuse i those days, when lowladder team consisted of 4-6 Klefkis.
Keys on da table (Avalugg) (F) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 252 Atk / 2 SpA / 252 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Recover
- Earthquake
- Avalanche
- Gyro Ball
All of my friends were spamming me with Klefkis. What do I do? I look out for some own tempo Pokes. And I find a great counter for Klefki. With Own tempo, Good Attack and High Defense, I put two of these things o my team. Klefki uses Swagger, it raises its attack, but doesn't confuse it due to own tempo. And if Klefki chooses to use Foul Play here, This Pokemon's High Defense comes handy. It survives the attack and kills the Klefki. And Recover to get its health back, contiuing with its business. Although this thing isn't as useful for other Pokemon, keeping a check for that deadly Klefki is always handy in AG. Also, it can survive DAscent ad kill Mray with Avalanche.
Keys on da table (Avalugg) (F) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 252 Atk / 2 SpA / 252 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Recover
- Earthquake
- Avalanche
- Gyro Ball
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I too got some time to ask some weird questions like Zangooser.Just seeing what kind of reply I might get to these question....
1)Which arceus type do you use for support?
There are some good arch-types like water/dragon/fairy which works according to the team's need.I wonder if any one of you some other "underused" arch-type for support role?[Please mention below if any]
2)According to you, how will the new pokemon of Gen 7 affect Darkrai/Klefki.
The Pokemon Company already revealed 14 pokemons, from which some are blessed with abilities to so 1 v 1 those top tier mons.Namely Tapu koko's (Electric/Fairy) prevents grounded pokemon from falling asleep and on the other hand, the new tiger fish pokemon Bruxish has a abiltiy which prevents pokemon using a move with increased priority.According to this, (IN MY OPINION) darkrai might see a fall from S back to +A or it might use Sludge Bomb over taunt/nasty plt, while the current klefki set will be shutted down (Assuming foul play does 0 because prankster increase priority and Bruxish is immune to priority based moves?)
Although, I know this will be a bit quick to ask about the viability changes in Gen7.....But Hey!I warned you that I had some weird question.....
3)More than one Doexys-A should be used?After mega rayquaza, Deoxys-a is another mon with the monotonous 180 Base Attack.While it is frail due to suchwonderful low HP, it can still be hard to handle when paired with a sash and played nicely.Then, a question arises to my mind, can it be spammed on teams?I've seen teams which use something like this
1 rocker/2 Defogger/2 Deoxys-A/Filler or 1 Rocker/1 Deffoger/Dark type check/3 Deoxys-a. (Seriously, dont judge me on this.)
While it might seems like a bad idea running that kind of team.....but it works.This lets me ask you, what do you think of (Deoxys-A)x2-3
Please hate me for asking these questionDont hate me for asking questions, after all I just want reaction to these.
Thank you.
-Qwer
1)Which arceus type do you use for support?
There are some good arch-types like water/dragon/fairy which works according to the team's need.I wonder if any one of you some other "underused" arch-type for support role?[Please mention below if any]
2)According to you, how will the new pokemon of Gen 7 affect Darkrai/Klefki.
The Pokemon Company already revealed 14 pokemons, from which some are blessed with abilities to so 1 v 1 those top tier mons.Namely Tapu koko's (Electric/Fairy) prevents grounded pokemon from falling asleep and on the other hand, the new tiger fish pokemon Bruxish has a abiltiy which prevents pokemon using a move with increased priority.According to this, (IN MY OPINION) darkrai might see a fall from S back to +A or it might use Sludge Bomb over taunt/nasty plt, while the current klefki set will be shutted down (Assuming foul play does 0 because prankster increase priority and Bruxish is immune to priority based moves?)
Although, I know this will be a bit quick to ask about the viability changes in Gen7.....But Hey!I warned you that I had some weird question.....
3)More than one Doexys-A should be used?After mega rayquaza, Deoxys-a is another mon with the monotonous 180 Base Attack.While it is frail due to such
1 rocker/2 Defogger/2 Deoxys-A/Filler or 1 Rocker/1 Deffoger/Dark type check/3 Deoxys-a. (Seriously, dont judge me on this.)
While it might seems like a bad idea running that kind of team.....but it works.This lets me ask you, what do you think of (Deoxys-A)x2-3
Thank you.
-Qwer
It depends on the team and what you want Arceus to accomplish really >_> I'm personally a big fan of Defensive Arceus-Normal, it's able to check EKiller really well, and also has a strong matchup against Mega Rayquaza. The reason I prefer it to other EKiller checks is it generally isn't bopped by random coverage moves, Skarmory dies to Fire Blast/Flamethrower, Yveltal doesn't like Stone Edge and Ghostceus/Giratina both have issues with Shadow Claw (and to some extent Magic Coat). The only thing that sort of lets EKiller work around Bulkceus is Return, but even then a +2 Life Orb Return does 75% maximum before EKiller gets Roared out.
It'll all depend on stats really. Honestly I feel like Bruxish will be pretty bad, it's weak to Foul Play as well as EKiller's Shadow Claw so it'll need some pretty high Defenses to check those two. In the end I can see it being a meme that appears on the ladder but is not that effective. As for Tapu Koko, it looks very promising. Assuming its ability functions like Drizzle and summons Electric Terrain for 5 turns it'll definitely be a huge obstacle for Darkrai, because it would mean that nothing on the field can fall asleep for 5 turns, but again it depends on stats. I think it could end up being similar to Mega Diancie in terms of viability if it has a decent stat spread.
I have seen Deoxys spam teams multiple times on the ladder, notably oosty reached 2142 with one, however I still feel unsure about the viability of said teams. It's extremely important that hazards not be on the field, otherwise all of your main sweepers are Extreme Speed bait. So you're forced with a dillema, you either risk losing your sweepers to an EKiller or Choice Scarf Pokemon, or you're forced to sacrifice offensive momentum to clear hazards away, both of which are quite easy for an opponent to take advantage of. It's definitely a strong archetype in the right hands, but I find that sort of team is generally unreliable.
Edit: Megazard Deoxys doesn't learn Hyper Voice ;_;
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I think deo-a doesn't have to be relegated to balance with maximum hazard control as has been suggested, it can work there but I don't see why a fully offensive team that has some lead which prevents opposing rocks can't use it. If its sash is broken it's not useless, just more easy to pressure. All it absolutely requires is probably some ghost type to check ekiller and a team which doesn't mind a slot that's basically useless from a defensive standpoint. Having said all of that, here's a recent deo-a balance squad I made that's really really fun.
e: deo spam still kinda blows though
e2: forget the hyper voice stuff, don't check legalities when ur format is set to BH
e: deo spam still kinda blows though
e2: forget the hyper voice stuff, don't check legalities when ur format is set to BH
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i had to
Chandelure @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Timid Nature
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast / Overheat
- Shadow Ball
- Clear Smog
- Trick
Go on spread the chandelure cancer
Chandelure @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Timid Nature
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast / Overheat
- Shadow Ball
- Clear Smog
- Trick
- Checks a weakness in a team with Trick, also able to clutch with it, most importantly, causes most pokemon to become setup bait, easily stopping sweeps and counter-sweeps.
- Flamethrower if RNG hates you, Fire Blast or Overheat if RNG likes you. All three can revenge kill optimally.
- Shadow ball does the same as the above, allowing it to hit targets that resist fire.
- Clear Smog Checks Minimize, Moody, and is useful in situations where you misplay and allow opponents to max out their stats, at the cost of Chandeure being sacrificed, but causes a sweeper to become set-up bait, similar to trick.
- Multipurpose mon
If you are running it, invest in HP:
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Chandelure: 249-293 (84.6 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
That said, it's still too meme-y for me.
It's been a while since I just posted sets I've come up with, and I feel like sharing so I might as well.
Darkrai @ Leftovers
Ability: Bad Dreams
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Void
- Foul Play
- Swagger
- Substitute
While I did recently type a post on the perks and different sets of Substitute Darkrai, I feel as if I could have elaborated more on the Swagger / Foul Play combination. SwagPlay Darkrai is a criminally underrated set, with the ability to provide a second line of defense against a sleeping opponent. A sleeping opponent may wake up, and then face the fifty/fifty chance to then break a Substitute. Unlike Dark Pulse or other offensive variants of Darkrai, it doesn't require the investment in offensive stats and can use it for bulk. While SwagPlay Klefki can be checked by consistent switching, SwagPlay Darkrai doesn't suffer from this as much. Sleep condition + Bad Dreams allows for residual damage even before STAB Foul Play. Foul Play does more damage to Extreme Killer than Dark Pulse does, which is Darkrai's biggest threat. While this set is extremely underrated, it does come with a few noticeable flaws. For one, it struggles when facing a Klefki (but then again what Darkrai doesn't) as Foul Play does minimal damage in this case. Otherwise, opponents generally take a decent amount, especially when they don't have the added benefit of Prankster Substitute. Some good teammates include Ditto, Mega Gengar and set-up sweepers such as Arceus, Mega Rayquaza and Xerneas.
Ho-Oh @ Charcoal
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 96 HP / 252 Atk / 160 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Flame Charge
- Sleep Talk
While the EVs on this set probably are not optimal, this set in particular offers a more reliable check to Darkrai than standard LO and Banded Ho-Oh sets; Flame Charge allows Ho-Oh to outpace Darkrai and follow up with a heavy hitting attack before it can Substitute or Dark Void. Life Orb would usually be the go to item, but in the off chance Flame Charge isn't picked up by Sleep Talk in the turns it's asleep, it's beneficial to preserve HP so Ho-Oh can live longer throughout the match. With Charcoal, Flame Charge gets boosted to 60 power, and Sacred Fire ties powerwise with Brave Bird, both which still do a reasonable amount to other opponents. After a Substitute, both of the two former moves can OHKO Darkrai. If the opponent is Taunt Darkrai, Ho-Oh (usually Darkrai fodder if this is the case) can wait the turns out and then Flame Charge to outspeed and win. At +1 Speed, Ho-Oh hits 384 which outpaces Darkrai by one point. 252 is put into Attack to account for the loss of item; and the remainder is put into HP for just overall longevity. Unfortunately, it does lose out on the ability to check GeoXern efficiently, however it still manages with many common sets. This set pairs well with Fairy Arceus as Mega Rayquaza and Giratina are both painful to deal with; as well as teammates for general Ho-Oh checks (Reliable Defogger, Kyogre check, etc).
Opinions?
Darkrai @ Leftovers
Ability: Bad Dreams
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Void
- Foul Play
- Swagger
- Substitute
While I did recently type a post on the perks and different sets of Substitute Darkrai, I feel as if I could have elaborated more on the Swagger / Foul Play combination. SwagPlay Darkrai is a criminally underrated set, with the ability to provide a second line of defense against a sleeping opponent. A sleeping opponent may wake up, and then face the fifty/fifty chance to then break a Substitute. Unlike Dark Pulse or other offensive variants of Darkrai, it doesn't require the investment in offensive stats and can use it for bulk. While SwagPlay Klefki can be checked by consistent switching, SwagPlay Darkrai doesn't suffer from this as much. Sleep condition + Bad Dreams allows for residual damage even before STAB Foul Play. Foul Play does more damage to Extreme Killer than Dark Pulse does, which is Darkrai's biggest threat. While this set is extremely underrated, it does come with a few noticeable flaws. For one, it struggles when facing a Klefki (but then again what Darkrai doesn't) as Foul Play does minimal damage in this case. Otherwise, opponents generally take a decent amount, especially when they don't have the added benefit of Prankster Substitute. Some good teammates include Ditto, Mega Gengar and set-up sweepers such as Arceus, Mega Rayquaza and Xerneas.
Ho-Oh @ Charcoal
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 96 HP / 252 Atk / 160 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Flame Charge
- Sleep Talk
While the EVs on this set probably are not optimal, this set in particular offers a more reliable check to Darkrai than standard LO and Banded Ho-Oh sets; Flame Charge allows Ho-Oh to outpace Darkrai and follow up with a heavy hitting attack before it can Substitute or Dark Void. Life Orb would usually be the go to item, but in the off chance Flame Charge isn't picked up by Sleep Talk in the turns it's asleep, it's beneficial to preserve HP so Ho-Oh can live longer throughout the match. With Charcoal, Flame Charge gets boosted to 60 power, and Sacred Fire ties powerwise with Brave Bird, both which still do a reasonable amount to other opponents. After a Substitute, both of the two former moves can OHKO Darkrai. If the opponent is Taunt Darkrai, Ho-Oh (usually Darkrai fodder if this is the case) can wait the turns out and then Flame Charge to outspeed and win. At +1 Speed, Ho-Oh hits 384 which outpaces Darkrai by one point. 252 is put into Attack to account for the loss of item; and the remainder is put into HP for just overall longevity. Unfortunately, it does lose out on the ability to check GeoXern efficiently, however it still manages with many common sets. This set pairs well with Fairy Arceus as Mega Rayquaza and Giratina are both painful to deal with; as well as teammates for general Ho-Oh checks (Reliable Defogger, Kyogre check, etc).
Opinions?
I have been trying out your hooh set and it has been working for me quite nice, nice set there. But i have been using an alternative ev spread(might be better or worse depending on team) for the hoohIt's been a while since I just posted sets I've come up with, and I feel like sharing so I might as well.
Darkrai @ Leftovers
Ability: Bad Dreams
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Void
- Foul Play
- Swagger
- Substitute
While I did recently type a post on the perks and different sets of Substitute Darkrai, I feel as if I could have elaborated more on the Swagger / Foul Play combination. SwagPlay Darkrai is a criminally underrated set, with the ability to provide a second line of defense against a sleeping opponent. A sleeping opponent may wake up, and then face the fifty/fifty chance to then break a Substitute. Unlike Dark Pulse or other offensive variants of Darkrai, it doesn't require the investment in offensive stats and can use it for bulk. While SwagPlay Klefki can be checked by consistent switching, SwagPlay Darkrai doesn't suffer from this as much. Sleep condition + Bad Dreams allows for residual damage even before STAB Foul Play. Foul Play does more damage to Extreme Killer than Dark Pulse does, which is Darkrai's biggest threat. While this set is extremely underrated, it does come with a few noticeable flaws. For one, it struggles when facing a Klefki (but then again what Darkrai doesn't) as Foul Play does minimal damage in this case. Otherwise, opponents generally take a decent amount, especially when they don't have the added benefit of Prankster Substitute. Some good teammates include Ditto, Mega Gengar and set-up sweepers such as Arceus, Mega Rayquaza and Xerneas.
Ho-Oh @ Charcoal
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 96 HP / 252 Atk / 160 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Flame Charge
- Sleep Talk
While the EVs on this set probably are not optimal, this set in particular offers a more reliable check to Darkrai than standard LO and Banded Ho-Oh sets; Flame Charge allows Ho-Oh to outpace Darkrai and follow up with a heavy hitting attack before it can Substitute or Dark Void. Life Orb would usually be the go to item, but in the off chance Flame Charge isn't picked up by Sleep Talk in the turns it's asleep, it's beneficial to preserve HP so Ho-Oh can live longer throughout the match. With Charcoal, Flame Charge gets boosted to 60 power, and Sacred Fire ties powerwise with Brave Bird, both which still do a reasonable amount to other opponents. After a Substitute, both of the two former moves can OHKO Darkrai. If the opponent is Taunt Darkrai, Ho-Oh (usually Darkrai fodder if this is the case) can wait the turns out and then Flame Charge to outspeed and win. At +1 Speed, Ho-Oh hits 384 which outpaces Darkrai by one point. 252 is put into Attack to account for the loss of item; and the remainder is put into HP for just overall longevity. Unfortunately, it does lose out on the ability to check GeoXern efficiently, however it still manages with many common sets. This set pairs well with Fairy Arceus as Mega Rayquaza and Giratina are both painful to deal with; as well as teammates for general Ho-Oh checks (Reliable Defogger, Kyogre check, etc).
Opinions?
Ho-Oh @ Sharp Beak
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 140 Atk / 52 SpD / 68 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Sacred Fire
- Flame Charge
- Sleep Talk
at +1 spe it outspeeds krai, it is bulked to survive +2 xern thunder, and the rest is put into atk. Sharp beak is chosen over charcoal to ensure ohko on krai after sub/ flame charge damage.
140 Atk Sharp Beak Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Darkrai: 237-279 (84.3 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
these evs are mostly used over zangs one due to its ability to check geoxern while also been a very good darkrai check.