Both max SpA and max HP are good spreads and very viable but I feel max SpA should stay as the primary spread just because this 2HKO is really important.
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Ubers Arceus-Electric
- Thread starter Cobalt314
- Start date
Both max SpA and max HP are good spreads and very viable but I feel max SpA should stay as the primary spread just because this 2HKO is really important.
A couple of things:
In your skeleton, you overstate/exaggerate some things. For example, the line "Judgment is preferred STAB as 100 base power off of a base 120 special attack, compounded with both same-type attack bonus and Zap Plate boost, can rip through a vast majority of the tier" is an overstatement, as "vast majority" implies that Electric Arceus has a positive matchup against 95% of the tier, which simply isn't true. Also, in your overview you mention that Electric Arceus can check/counter Ho-Oh, Kyogre, and Yveltal, when in reality it doesn't enjoy switching into any of these threats (so please remove "counters" mention in the overview). For example, Band Ho-Oh can do 65% to Electric Arceus with Sacred Fire while Scarf Kyogre easily 2HKO's it with Surf. It can certainly check these threats to an extent, but it does not counter any of them and rarely can switch into powerful attacks in general due to its shitty defensive typing. Even Yveltal can kill Electric Arceus after Stealth Rock with Dark Pulse+Sucker Punch (requires prediction but Electric Arceus clearly cannot switch in safely).
You do a nice job of emphasizing the offensive prowess of Electric Arceus. Mention the downside of using an Arceus forme that cannot counter anything or even safely switch in most of the time, and therefore cannot serve as effective a glue like other Calm Mind Arceus formes can (like Grass Arceus). Also mention the benefit of having a sweeper that cannot be crippled with paralysis. Electric Arceus does provide a switchin to Thunder Wave spam from Pokemon like Klefki and Thundurus. Finally, add a little meat to "usage tips." When is a good time to set up, and when is a good time to simply attack or switch out? For instance, mention that spamming Ice Beam when your opponent's Groudon is completely healthy is usually a better play than setting up prematurely (just to get you started).
This is pretty close to getting stamped by me though, you are definitely motivated to do this and have good information. Just clean up/add the things I mentioned above.
In your skeleton, you overstate/exaggerate some things. For example, the line "Judgment is preferred STAB as 100 base power off of a base 120 special attack, compounded with both same-type attack bonus and Zap Plate boost, can rip through a vast majority of the tier" is an overstatement, as "vast majority" implies that Electric Arceus has a positive matchup against 95% of the tier, which simply isn't true. Also, in your overview you mention that Electric Arceus can check/counter Ho-Oh, Kyogre, and Yveltal, when in reality it doesn't enjoy switching into any of these threats (so please remove "counters" mention in the overview). For example, Band Ho-Oh can do 65% to Electric Arceus with Sacred Fire while Scarf Kyogre easily 2HKO's it with Surf. It can certainly check these threats to an extent, but it does not counter any of them and rarely can switch into powerful attacks in general due to its shitty defensive typing. Even Yveltal can kill Electric Arceus after Stealth Rock with Dark Pulse+Sucker Punch (requires prediction but Electric Arceus clearly cannot switch in safely).
You do a nice job of emphasizing the offensive prowess of Electric Arceus. Mention the downside of using an Arceus forme that cannot counter anything or even safely switch in most of the time, and therefore cannot serve as effective a glue like other Calm Mind Arceus formes can (like Grass Arceus). Also mention the benefit of having a sweeper that cannot be crippled with paralysis. Electric Arceus does provide a switchin to Thunder Wave spam from Pokemon like Klefki and Thundurus. Finally, add a little meat to "usage tips." When is a good time to set up, and when is a good time to simply attack or switch out? For instance, mention that spamming Ice Beam when your opponent's Groudon is completely healthy is usually a better play than setting up prematurely (just to get you started).
This is pretty close to getting stamped by me though, you are definitely motivated to do this and have good information. Just clean up/add the things I mentioned above.
Thanks for the feedback! I fixed most of the things you mentioned, I'm just wondering about one thing. I don't mean to sound like an idiot when I ask this, but what do you exactly mean when you say Electric Arceus "cannot serve as effective a glue like other Calm Mind Arceus formes?" I'm not questioning your reasoning, I've just never heard that term used before, and I merely want to be clear on what you mean by that.
I mean that Max Special Attack Electric Arceus cannot switch in safely on most threats in the metagame. Compare this to Calm Mind Fairy Arceus, which can check Palkia, or Calm Mind Ground Arceus, which can check Zekrom. When you add Electric Arceus to a team, you are using it for its excellent sweeping potential (due to boltbeam coverage+speed) and ability to pressure annoying stuff like Water Arceus. It does not have the typing to help much from a defensive standpoint though and therefore often cannot fill "glue" teams together in need of an Arceus form to patch up its remaining holes.
"Still the most feared Calm Mind Sweeper type." <--- Change "still" to "arguably," as this implies that Electric Arceus was the most dangerous Calm Mind Arceus form last generation, which is VERY debatable with CM Ghost and Dark Arceus existing and dominating in that metagame.
QC: 1/3
"Still the most feared Calm Mind Sweeper type." <--- Change "still" to "arguably," as this implies that Electric Arceus was the most dangerous Calm Mind Arceus form last generation, which is VERY debatable with CM Ghost and Dark Arceus existing and dominating in that metagame.
QC: 1/3
OK, I have quite a bit of feedback on the write up:
Overall - Try to maintain a professional tone. It needn't be completely formal and serious, but avoid hyperboles and write from an impersonal perspective (ie don't address the reader). Also, avoid arbitrary capitalization (He and such is fine, but things like Justice or Crackling Rage don't have any reason to be capitalized).
Overview - A little flavour text can be fun, but this sacrifices far too much concision and clarity. Things like "charge of micro-Coulombs" = Special Attack are just less clear than preferable, not to mention that a less knowledgeable reader will have no idea that 594 is a boosted number (which is very relevant information). I'm also not sure what spread or number of boosts is giving you 594 Special Attack, but it's not a value you get with any of the recommended spreads, with any number of boosts. Add the point you left out about how its typing is poor defensively, and remove the sentence "Arceus laughs at any attempt you make of retaliation, and takes pitiful damage from almost any attack you try", as it contradicts said point and is really just not true with the main spread being fully offensive.
Moves - The bit about Judgment could be more concise; really something like "100 base power, Zap Plate boosted STAB attack" and "coming off 339 Special Attack" should be enough. Don't bother listing unviable or borderline viable Pokemon resisting its moves either, saying something like "virtually unresisted coverage" should do.
Set Details - The Groudon calcs seem a little unnecessary, since 2HKOing Groudon with the spread was already mentioned. Also remove the mention of the 176+ Speed spread; a Gengar before Mega-Evolution is too specific to be worth investing in (not to mention that people would be careful with Gengar against Arceus-Electric anyways). 252 HP and 96+ Speed are nice alternative spreads.
Usage Tips - Try to emphasize Groudon less; it's hardly on every team. Also, rather just refer to Chansey/Blissey by their names. The calcs may again be unnecessary.
Team Options - There are far better hazard setters than Smeargle. And rather list something like Bronzong or Landorus-T over Dialga, since that's stacking Ground weaknesses.
Other Options - Just remove the Swords Dance part altogether.
Sorry if this comes across as quite critical, I just feel like the skeleton was great and a lot that wasn't needed got added in the transition from the skeleton to full text. Well done on being the first to get this far on an analysis though!
Overall - Try to maintain a professional tone. It needn't be completely formal and serious, but avoid hyperboles and write from an impersonal perspective (ie don't address the reader). Also, avoid arbitrary capitalization (He and such is fine, but things like Justice or Crackling Rage don't have any reason to be capitalized).
Overview - A little flavour text can be fun, but this sacrifices far too much concision and clarity. Things like "charge of micro-Coulombs" = Special Attack are just less clear than preferable, not to mention that a less knowledgeable reader will have no idea that 594 is a boosted number (which is very relevant information). I'm also not sure what spread or number of boosts is giving you 594 Special Attack, but it's not a value you get with any of the recommended spreads, with any number of boosts. Add the point you left out about how its typing is poor defensively, and remove the sentence "Arceus laughs at any attempt you make of retaliation, and takes pitiful damage from almost any attack you try", as it contradicts said point and is really just not true with the main spread being fully offensive.
Moves - The bit about Judgment could be more concise; really something like "100 base power, Zap Plate boosted STAB attack" and "coming off 339 Special Attack" should be enough. Don't bother listing unviable or borderline viable Pokemon resisting its moves either, saying something like "virtually unresisted coverage" should do.
Set Details - The Groudon calcs seem a little unnecessary, since 2HKOing Groudon with the spread was already mentioned. Also remove the mention of the 176+ Speed spread; a Gengar before Mega-Evolution is too specific to be worth investing in (not to mention that people would be careful with Gengar against Arceus-Electric anyways). 252 HP and 96+ Speed are nice alternative spreads.
Usage Tips - Try to emphasize Groudon less; it's hardly on every team. Also, rather just refer to Chansey/Blissey by their names. The calcs may again be unnecessary.
Team Options - There are far better hazard setters than Smeargle. And rather list something like Bronzong or Landorus-T over Dialga, since that's stacking Ground weaknesses.
Other Options - Just remove the Swords Dance part altogether.
Sorry if this comes across as quite critical, I just feel like the skeleton was great and a lot that wasn't needed got added in the transition from the skeleton to full text. Well done on being the first to get this far on an analysis though!
The "594 micro-Coloumbs" was just an arbitrary number, meant to use physics as a metaphor to Arceus's potentially high power. It wasn't supposed to mean anything. However, I have fixed all of the points you have mentioned, and I believe it is now in a more refined state. Let me know what you think, and, as always, I'm awaiting QC feedback. Thanks for the feedback!
Mamo only notable set is a Life Orb attack set, it doesn't set up anything, it KO back with EQ (although it can set up Stealth rock but that's not my point)
I'm going to pipe up about the overview: giving Arceus the ridiculous thematic overview like last gen is something I hoped wouldn't happen again. For people new to competitive battling, or even people trying to get into Ubers and use Arceus, this overview is not helpful in the slightest, unlike with every other Pokemon, where it is laid out very simply what a Pokemon is good at and what it is bad at. I myself have never been able to use any of the Arceus forms properly besides Normal because the overview is so cryptic and non-sensical.
So please, for the sake of the less experienced, can you please change the overview to something everyone can understand? Thank you. I don't want to come across as a jerk or anything, but this type of thing just really prevented me from getting into Ubers last gen.
So please, for the sake of the less experienced, can you please change the overview to something everyone can understand? Thank you. I don't want to come across as a jerk or anything, but this type of thing just really prevented me from getting into Ubers last gen.
I apologize for any obscurity I may have caused in the overview. I have rewritten it in a more general format.
Remove the use of He and Himself as if Arceus is a religious figure, it's fucking weird man. Also remove all uses of "Shockceus" or any phrases like "His Sheer Power" or "His Divine Countenance", once again, it's fucking weird and makes me cringe.
It honestly looks like the OP is trolling so I'm inclined to have someone else write this up...
It honestly looks like the OP is trolling so I'm inclined to have someone else write this up...
No problem. Customer satisfaction is my number one priority. After finals. And Pokémon Bank
Though it may have been overdone at first, I think that the general theme to Arceus overviews was a nice touch. I personally don't really understand how an overview could really be that confusing. It's obvious that "trembles of the earth" or similar things alluded to ground type moves. The random capitalization of stylistic words was annoying when they were grammatical errors, but I honestly liked what was written before. Agreeing with Furai in that you should bring back some of what you had before.
Use the bullet point format for checks and counters. Fireburn's Groudon analysis is a good example: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/groudon-gp-2-2.3495286/#post-5131782
Make sure your /s have spaces before and after. (like Judgment / Thunderbolt vs judg/tbolt)
The usage tips bother me, I feel like you should be talking more about how you can use that typing (checking Ho-Oh) and at what points it'll be safe to click CM (like once that groudon is weakened enough to pick it off) and when you want to outright attack . The insistence on 2 boosts in various parts bothers me a lot. It's just unrealistic that the OP gives you two free turns to boost unless you are already in a position to outright win the game. (which doesn't need explaining)
Speaking of Groudon, please mention checks to him and other ground types in the teammates section. Stuff like Lando-T, Tina-O, Yveltal etc work more or less well.
Make sure your /s have spaces before and after. (like Judgment / Thunderbolt vs judg/tbolt)
The usage tips bother me, I feel like you should be talking more about how you can use that typing (checking Ho-Oh) and at what points it'll be safe to click CM (like once that groudon is weakened enough to pick it off) and when you want to outright attack . The insistence on 2 boosts in various parts bothers me a lot. It's just unrealistic that the OP gives you two free turns to boost unless you are already in a position to outright win the game. (which doesn't need explaining)
Speaking of Groudon, please mention checks to him and other ground types in the teammates section. Stuff like Lando-T, Tina-O, Yveltal etc work more or less well.
I know, but I'm too lazy to copy it into Word :) and I tend to do everything directly in the OP, but it will still grant pretty much the same result, so not too big of a problem.
I'll try to include both your and Jexulus's suggestions, so that it's both easy to understand and simultaneously demonstrative of Arceus's Supreme Reign.
I have implemented as many of your suggestions as I could. I'm unsure if my new Checks/Counters section is what you meant, but I fixed the rest to the best of my ability. Let me know if this one's better.
I want a section in checks and counters that is called "Toxic." This status is probably the single best check to Electric Arceus. Toxic users like Yveltal, support Arceus, blobs should be mentioned under this section. Sticky Web is also a check in a sense, since you are speed reliant. However, it can just go under other checks since it's a hard strategy to pull off anyway.
I'd also want more emphasis somewhere on the newfound immunity to t-wave that Electric-types have gotten. It is also core to why this Arceus got more potent. You mention paralysis once in the overview, but I'd like another mention somewhere in the text just to reinforce the point.
I'd also want more emphasis somewhere on the newfound immunity to t-wave that Electric-types have gotten. It is also core to why this Arceus got more potent. You mention paralysis once in the overview, but I'd like another mention somewhere in the text just to reinforce the point.
Sorry, the organization of this post is scrambled D:
Um, actually, I think the thing that bothers me about he checks counters section is that the Toxic mention is sweeping too many specific checks into it. I think the Toxic bullet should just be the random toxics that are filler on so many sets as a general precaution while things like the blobs need their own bullet because they do more than Toxic, they wall with their giant Sp Def. I'll mention others when you split the bullets (and then stamp at that comment :p)
Other checks is basically doing the same thing, give those mons their own bullets. The idea of the bullets is that you see the checks at a glance and then can get the details by reading the info. The grouping just applies to mons that are very similar like the ground type checks.
Too early to say this, imo. I know Arceus Ghost is still a very good CM Arc. Just talk about what makes it a good CM arceus instead of trying to tier it.
Says nothing, cut it.
Way too obvious, doesn't need to be mentioned. If you want to mention when to use Recover bring up actual scenarios, like on a Ho-Oh or predicted switch or a Palkia.
This is pretty much stuff that is covered in checks/counters imo. As far as boosting vs not boosting, I think you just need to stress that you don't need to boost to do damage and that just outright attacking (or recovering) is often one of the better moves to make.
Not true this gen. Also, make a quick mention that a lot of sets (like in general, you have enough specifics) run Toxic as a filler option so you have to be careful on when you switch in.
Um, actually, I think the thing that bothers me about he checks counters section is that the Toxic mention is sweeping too many specific checks into it. I think the Toxic bullet should just be the random toxics that are filler on so many sets as a general precaution while things like the blobs need their own bullet because they do more than Toxic, they wall with their giant Sp Def. I'll mention others when you split the bullets (and then stamp at that comment :p)
Other checks is basically doing the same thing, give those mons their own bullets. The idea of the bullets is that you see the checks at a glance and then can get the details by reading the info. The grouping just applies to mons that are very similar like the ground type checks.
Mention something specific, otherwise you can say this about any pokemon.
I know I've mentioned this before...
Give an example
I corrected most of the issues you were concerned about, and I'm now working on the Checks and Counters section. Btw, I know I was a bit harsh on you to look over my analysis, but I'm just deeply passionate about this write up, and the fact that you, along with the rest of the Smogon community, are putting in a lot of your time to help out a new analysis writer is very reassuring, and it tells me that you really want to make these look good. Thank you for doing this, and continue helping make Smogon the great competitive Pokémon website that it is!