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Arceus

MegaMewtwo said:
No offense, but I don't like semi-legit stuff. The only reason I took those Darkrais of yours was to trade to other people. I was okay with having them on my game because I already have a Movie Darkrai, so your ones wouldn't get me Dex data that isn't possible legally. You know what I'm saying.
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Then what happens if you make an offer on someone's thread and they ask for my Arceus, then what?

My personal belief is kinda saying WTF in my mind.
 
Gothic Togekiss said:
Then what happens if you make an offer on someone's thread and they ask for my Arceus, then what?

My personal belief is kinda saying WTF in my mind.
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Then I miss out, or get you to trade with them and then trade what you got to me. Sorry for being weird like this, I just don't like semi-legit stuff.
 
MegaMewtwo said:
Then I miss out, or get you to trade with them and then trade what you got to me. Sorry for being weird like this, I just don't like semi-legit stuff.
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It's okay, just won't be cloning for you then/ trading any semi-legit pokemon to you.

Edit: Cloning via AR and/or GTS would be considered cheating when you think about.
 
Gothic Togekiss said:
It's okay, just won't be cloning for you then/ trading any semi-legit pokemon to you.
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Huh? I'm okay with cloning, just not semi-legit stuff like non-movie Darkrai (although I'm making a bit of an exception for yours for reasons already stated) Shaymin and Arceus or even Advance stuff where a ticket was hacked in.

Yes, I am weird.
 
Kijin said:
Fix/etc.

You cannot get Arceus in Japanese DP without modifying your game. You can see the Arceus overland sprite, but you cannot fight it. Do not alter my quotes to make it seem like I said something I didn't, especially when the information you are making it seem like I said is false.

You're comparing fake Pokemon to Pokemon that are difficult to acquire or require hacking events to obtain legitimately, which is not only an incorrect comparison, but a retarded one at that.

How so? Neither of them are obtainable without an AR. Both of them are obtainable with an AR. Nintendo could release an event some time in the future that would allow either to exist. I don't see the difference.
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MegaMewtwo said:
Huh? I'm okay with cloning, just not semi-legit stuff like non-movie Darkrai (although I'm making a bit of an exception for yours for reasons already stated) Shaymin and Arceus or even Advance stuff where a ticket was hacked in.
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Okay though this whole discussion about semi-legit, legit, illegit and all that stuff is started to make me want to leave this place D:. Too much bitching and moaning over stuff like that.

Obi~ One question, Are people sending their Arecus on you during OU or Uber battles?
 
Gothic Togekiss said:
Okay though this whole discussion about semi-legit, legit, illegit and all that stuff is started to make me want to leave this place D:. Too much bitching and moaning over stuff like that.

Obi~ One question, Are people sending their Arecus on you during OU or Uber battles?
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Let's agree to disagree on the subject of semi-legit stuff. I'm shutting up here now.
 
Take it to PMs, damn.

Asking people to not use Arceus will always garner the same negative response from the community, though not sure if this is a sign of the immaturity of the community or simply the willingness to use the best tactics possible with little regard to legitimacy/rules.
 
haxx = whatever

Seriously, don't argue with crap about it being morally wrong. Hacking is just for people who do not have time to breed/EV train/Soft Reset/Go to the event. Oh, and I don't what an argument, but IMO all hacking in the limits of the game is ok.
 
Well, if you believe that a Pokemon obtained by hacking an event is illegite, then is a clone obatined by an AR illegite as well? If not, that's pretty hypocritical. They are both obtained by the same means. The event Pokemon is actually more legitimate than the clone, because you actually catch the Arceus, not create it out of nowhere like the clone.
 
864today said:
haxx = whatever

Seriously, don't argue with crap about it being morally wrong. Hacking is just for people who do not have time to breed/EV train/Soft Reset/Go to the event. Oh, and I don't what an argument, but IMO all hacking in the limits of the game is ok.
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first of all i disagree.
second of all using AR for getting arceus is still out of the limits of the game, HE IS NOT obtainable without cheating as of now.

I agree with Obi, he should be banned until the events comes out
 
Anyone but me find it just a tiny bit silly that a strategy possible within the game, is not allowed because Nintendo has yet to do the event?

When the event comes about, the arguments will change into " its too powerful for uber tier".

Just say it: "I hate Arceus with a passion, I wish it wouldnt exist". Dont try to circumvent the debate with something like "It shouldn't be allowed NOW anyway".
 
I'm going to LMAO if all these Hall of Origin, semi-legit Arceus are rendered illegitimate when Nintendo NEVER releases the event that allows you to catch it in your own game and makes it a downloadable Pokemon only (a la Mew).
 
I think that "we've" let the floodgates open on having Arceus in the uber metagame via SRing and Tickets already. He's such a key part of the metagame now, with him being one of the better Deoxys counters, one of the reasons people use Giratina over Lugia, etc. If you took him out, the metagame would shift around and be confusing again.

Personally since people still put in the hard work of SRing, I woludn't mind facing one.
 
Obi, your analogy is flawed because Arceus is in the code of the game, while things like Nasty Plot Mewtwo simply don't exist. While granted there has been no precedent for allowing Pokemon obtained through glitches, the preposterous Pokemon available in RBY were a result of programming oversights and were not intended; the game programmers know that Arceus exists and intended for it to be included.
 
Does it really matter if we use it now or when Nintendo does the event? It's Shoddy, the entire game is supposed to be there at your command. Arceus is part of that game, no?

Do you recall anyone complaining about "glitch" Mews in R/B/Y? Or people who used Celebi before its time in G/S/C?
 
Great Sage said:
Obi, your analogy is flawed because Arceus is in the code of the game, while things like Nasty Plot Mewtwo simply don't exist. While granted there has been no precedent for allowing Pokemon obtained through glitches, the preposterous Pokemon available in RBY were a result of programming oversights and were not intended; the game programmers know that Arceus exists and intended for it to be included.
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Included in the code that is. Perhaps they did some testing and realized it would even unbalance the Uber metagame and would rather not release it.

We do not know whether or not the designers intended for Arceus to be released unless they officially allow us to get him. For all we know, it is a pokemon that was removed from the game. Programmers often leave early design artifacts in a game, and then hide it through programming. It is a known fact that strange things happen when you screw around with data, and it is less risky to leave a pokemon there than it is to surgically screw around the code to remove it from the game.
 
Dragontamer said:
Included in the code that is. Perhaps they did some testing and realized it would even unbalance the Uber metagame and would rather not release it.

We do not know whether or not the designers intended for Arceus to be released unless they officially allow us to get him.
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No, you misunderstand my point. The RBY glitch Pokemon existed because the programmers forgot something or improperly added something; they were accidents. Game Freak consciously put Arceus into D/P, as in Arceus was not an accident. Arceus, while powerful, certainly isn't strong enough to the point where it should be banned from Ubers, though, but that's a debate for another thread.
 
No, you misunderstand my point. The RBY glitch Pokemon existed because the programmers forgot something or improperly added something; they were accidents. Game Freak consciously put Arceus into D/P, as in Arceus was not an accident. Arceus, while powerful, certainly isn't strong enough to the point where it should be banned from Ubers, though, but that's a debate for another thread.
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Ah, you missed my edit... I noticed I didn't explain my position very well.

Re-read the post. I just edited it. Essentially, it is usually better to hide a feature of a program than it is to remove it. This is the reason for debug modes to exist in games; removing the debug code may crash the program or introduce bugs that were previously unknown.

And unless Nintendo releases the event, we'll never know.
 
Gothic Togekiss said:
Obi~ One question, Are people sending their Arecus on you during OU or Uber battles?

I've been against it the whole time. That I've recently started playing ubers only reminded me of it.
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Pneuma said:
Asking people to not use Arceus will always garner the same negative response from the community, though not sure if this is a sign of the immaturity of the community or simply the willingness to use the best tactics possible with little regard to legitimacy/rules.

People don't use Double Team or OHKOs because they are banned in all tiers. I think you underestimate the influence people can have.
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864today said:
Seriously, don't argue with crap about it being morally wrong. Hacking is just for people who do not have time to breed/EV train/Soft Reset/Go to the event.

Please, read through my posts (you can read through every post I've ever made on any forum) and find where I even suggested that it's morally wrong. I'm saying it's hacking.

Oh, and I don't what an argument, but IMO all hacking in the limits of the game is ok.

No such thing. Hacking, by definition, goes beyond the limits of the game.
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Tytus said:
Well, if you believe that a Pokemon obtained by hacking an event is illegite, then is a clone obatined by an AR illegite as well? If not, that's pretty hypocritical. They are both obtained by the same means.

It is.

The event Pokemon is actually more legitimate than the clone, because you actually catch the Arceus, not create it out of nowhere like the clone.

They are both just as illegitimate.
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Phiphler said:
Anyone but me find it just a tiny bit silly that a strategy possible within the game, is not allowed because Nintendo has yet to do the event?

Nintendo could some day do an event allowing Nasty Plot Mewtwo or Wish Cresselia. That doesn't mean we allow it now.

When the event comes about, the arguments will change into " its too powerful for uber tier".

No such thing as "too powerful for the uber tier". That tier exists solely as a tier to ban unbalanced Pokemon from OU. It is not meant to be itself balanced.

Just say it: "I hate Arceus with a passion, I wish it wouldnt exist". Dont try to circumvent the debate with something like "It shouldn't be allowed NOW anyway".

When you can actually get an Arceus, I'll be OK with it. Please do not invent my positions when I have never even implied such things.
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Chris is me said:
I think that "we've" let the floodgates open on having Arceus in the uber metagame via SRing and Tickets already. He's such a key part of the metagame now, with him being one of the better Deoxys counters, one of the reasons people use Giratina over Lugia, etc. If you took him out, the metagame would shift around and be confusing again.

So? It never should have been allowed in the first place. And, as I said, ubers isn't made to be a balanced tier, but rather, a tier to ban unbalanced Pokemon to so OU can be balanced. Talking about allowing certain things to balance ubers is entirely nonsensical. If it were balanced, it would be OU.

Personally since people still put in the hard work of SRing, I woludn't mind facing one.

Why didn't they just hack the Arceus directly? Both Pokemon are obtained with an AR, so it seems like self-deception to say "Oh, this is legit because it would really suck for me if it weren't.".
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Great Sage said:
Obi, your analogy is flawed because Arceus is in the code of the game, while things like Nasty Plot Mewtwo simply don't exist. While granted there has been no precedent for allowing Pokemon obtained through glitches, the preposterous Pokemon available in RBY were a result of programming oversights and were not intended; the game programmers know that Arceus exists and intended for it to be included.

There are many precedents for allowing glitches (cloning in particular), but there is absolutely none for allowing hacking. Nasty Plot Mewtwo is just as real as Arceus. Both can only be obtained with an Action Replay or possibly in a future Nintendo event. You could hack an event that allows you to meet a Nasty Plot Mewtwo and then catch it.
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Syberia said:
Does it really matter if we use it now or when Nintendo does the event? It's Shoddy, the entire game is supposed to be there at your command. Arceus is part of that game, no?

No, it's not. It isn't until there is a legitimate way to get Arceus.

Do you recall anyone complaining about "glitch" Mews in R/B/Y? Or people who used Celebi before its time in G/S/C?

You can get Mew in RBY without using a Game Shark. I don't know anything about Celebi in GSC, really, but it could be gotten at some point in the past, meaning it can be allowed now. I'm not going to get into a debate over how things ought to have been done, except as they relate to how things ought to be.
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So... you are against hacking items and Arceus should be banned from being used until the event comes out? Hm...

And Celebi was Japan only for GSC.
 
If they hack the event, thats ok as long as the Pokemon itself is legit. Sure there is no way to get one 100% legit, but calling it fake? Is it in the Pokdex? Yes. Can you catch it? Yes. Can you battle with it? Yes. Can you put it in Daycare/PC? Yes. Can you trade it? Yes. Doesnt sound fake to me.
 
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