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Arceus

I use it on Shoddy, in the Uber tier...

On WiFi, you probably shouldn't use it, if only because the opponent will automatically know that you have a hacked pokemon...


Well, really what they will say is "OMG HE HAS AN ACTION REPLAY! ALL HIS OTHER POKEMON MUST BE HACKED!" and that is what i think is the real issue at the moment. He just can't be obtained yet.

I agree with DragonTamer. They might not want to release Arceus, due to his 720 base stat total, but what about all the Pokemon sites which allready have Arceus listed as pokemon 493?
 
I don't think the new event pokemon are listed in any (edit: *official* printed) Pokedex. So Nintendo simply can make 493 the next first starter pokemon, and then we'll know for sure that Arceus isn't "Official" (kinda like MissingNo. With better graphics and a moveset >_> )

Course, who knows when the next pokemon game is going to be...
 
I'd rather not think about a new pokemon game. It's too much, though I'm sure the series will rear it's head again to milk some more money when Gamefreak starts up a new project.

I do have quite a bit of doubt in the community when it comes to AR. Cloning with Pokesav is becoming more and more official every day, easily something as bad as Arceus and much more prolific. As for Arceus in Wifi, what little percent of total pokemon players reside here manage to play a Java facade of pokemon instead of the real thing anyway.

Wifi is so full of Wonderguard Spiritombs and max-stat pokemon that I don't see how Arceus is even a problem at that point.
 
actually i heard that this pokemon generation *MIGHT* be the last they will make for pokemon. I can't confirm this, the info i got is pretty unreliable, but it makes sense that if this is going to be the end, they might as well create a pokemon "GOD" named Arceus with such a crazy description of it existing before time and space.
 
Completely unverifiable hearsay.

Keep in mind how many promises there have been in the movie and video game industry to "never again make a sequel" and to end up playing the sequel no more than a year afterwards. Nights on the Wii comes to mind.
 
actually i heard that this pokemon generation *MIGHT* be the last they will make for pokemon. I can't confirm this, the info i got is pretty unreliable, but it makes sense that if this is going to be the end, they might as well create a pokemon "GOD" named Arceus with such a crazy description of it existing before time and space.


YEAH... cause Nintendo is going to let a series in its 400th sequel, with its have their own spin-off company to handle promotions and branding, which sell over 10 million copies each release... to just go away. Not only is it unreliable. It's the stupidest. rumor. EVAR.

Pokemon is a cash cow unlike any other game franchise in the world, except for maybe Mario. Nintendo has no plans to end the series any time soon. However, what I COULD see them doing is a reboot. Relaunch the series with a mix of old and new pokemon in new adventures, but go back to only having 150 pokemon available and making trading between the old series and the new impossible except for a few special or promotional pokemon.

To get back on topic. Obi, if you don't want people to use Arceus against you, then just tell them before you agree to an Uber battle what your expectations are. There is nothing morally wrong with using a cheating device on your game if you want. It's only wrong to break an established agreement between players, after you've settled on no hacks or "semi-legit" (whatever that means) pokemon being used.

Simple, honest communication wins.
 
To get back on topic. Obi, if you don't want people to use Arceus against you, then just tell them before you agree to an Uber battle what your expectations are. There is nothing morally wrong with using a cheating device on your game if you want. It's only wrong to break an established agreement between players, after you've settled on no hacks or "semi-legit" (whatever that means) pokemon being used.

Simple, honest communication wins.

However, the general concensus is, if you can't get it through the game itself (including glitches), then it is illegal. This includes event pokemon (Wish on random pkmn, and Baton Pass Zapdos).

Arceus seems to go against this rule of thumb. There is no game version avaliable where you can get Arceus, with a glitch or without a glitch. That said, those who go with these simple rules of thumb... it makes sense that Arceus should be banned on principle.
 
No. It doesn't make sense that Arceus should be banned on principle. Who sets this general consensus? That is exactly the problem with Obi's post and with all the little kids that flip out at the mention of Action Replay. People can claim that the "general consensus" is that you don't use any legendaries (this is true amongst a lot of casual players), or that sleep moves aren't fair, or that using one Uber per team is ok, or whatever other arbitrary rule they want to tack on. Everyone can have their own idea how to play and CLAIM that's the general consensus and everyone should abide by it, but not everyone plays Smogon-style pokemon, even people who visit this site all the time don't necessarily agree with the standards set by Shoddy. Unless those rules are set in advance, there's no reason to expect opponents to abide by them.

Over 10 million people bought a copy of Pokemon Diamond/Pearl and most of them are casual players, which makes Smogon-style battling the minority view. So "rule of thumb," "general consensus," or whatever else you want to call it, are terrible ways to assume battles are going to run. You can't assume that your opponent knows these things because the overwhelming majority of Pokemon players don't agree with your view of the game.

So frankly, its stupid to assume that you opponent automatically knows what you THINK the rules should be. If you don't communicate your expectations beforehand, its silly to expect the other person to know what you expect. Otherwise, they either have no idea that they are offending you, or see the ambiguous rules as a free pass to play how they want to. Either way, its your fault if you don't communicate beforehand.

Just talk to each other beforehand. If you're setting up a battle on Wifi, then you clearly have the ability to do so. Then everyone wins and there's no need to get angry.
 
This is like the 200 vs 386 argument on Azure Heights before FireRed/LeafGreen came out all over again. The answer here is the same as the answer there: set up rules pre-battle.
 
Why do people use Arceus? It is because we do not want to wait 3 freekin years for the event to come up. And also, it is awesome.
 
I want to mention that this thread leads to nothing but a pointless argument. We should just all let this thread die. This isn't something that can be compromised for both sides.
 
I want to mention that this thread leads to nothing but a pointless argument. We should just all let this thread die. This isn't something that can be compromised for both sides.

That is in and of itself a "compromise", in that it means Arceus would remain allowed despite being an illegal Pokemon.
 
That is in and of itself a "compromise", in that it means Arceus would remain allowed despite being an illegal Pokemon.
See:
This is like the 200 vs 386 argument on Azure Heights before FireRed/LeafGreen came out all over again. The answer here is the same as the answer there: set up rules pre-battle.

Not everyone agrees with you. For these people, there's nothing to compromise because you're talking out of your ass. If you don't want to battle people who use Arceus, don't. Tell them your battle intention beforehand or just be a douche and DC on them. I don't understand what about that requires 4 pages of arguing.
 
Shaymin should be subjected to the same fate in my opinion. I agree with Obi that Arceus shouldn't be playable as of now due to AR being the only means to obtain it, but saying that a Pokemon that is obtainable through a glitch and glitch only is allowed is silly. If there was a glitch that allowed for Spore Garchomp, people would not be using it, and it's not just because that would be unfair. You're not supposed to be able to surf on the entrance door of the elite four in D/P for the Shaymin glitch anymore than you are not supposed to be able to bypass the games limits without AR to obtain the Azure flute to fight Arceus. Nintendo has not purposely allowed for any of these events to occur either naturally within the games own limits, or by their influence through giveaways.

But personally, I could care less if Arceus or Shaymin are banned or allowed, as long as they stay within their own respective realms of play.
 
I think Arceus should be allowed as standard under Uber rules but if you don't want to play against it just say no Arceus. I have easily the best Arceus collection on Smogon so my opinion may be a little biased.
 
Personally, I'm fine with Arceus users. It's a Pokémon, it's programmed into the game, has its own legal movesets and whatnot, etc.

I mean, how many people would use Mew, Celebi or Jirachi despite them not being released? (Which now obviously isn't the case, but yeah.)
 
That is in and of itself a "compromise", in that it means Arceus would remain allowed despite being an illegal Pokemon.

You still haven't sufficiently explained why it's an "illegal Pokemon." Because you said so? Because everyone should agree with you? Who sets the law of Pokemon? At least attempt to be intellectually honest instead of repeating the word "illegal" over and over until people agree with you.

So I say again: Over 10 million people bought Pokemon D/P and play it for fun. Smogon, meanwhile, has fewer than 20,000 users. Even if the rules here influence 50,000 users worldwide, that's still about .05% of the owners of Pokemon who consider Smogon rules the standard. Even if we are right about the "best" way to play pokemon competitively, it is the height of arrogance to just expect everyone who plays pokemon to agree with you on what the rules should be. 99.5% of the people who play Pokemon play under different rules.

It's time to drop the arrogance and indignation when someone disagrees with you and/or breaks a "rule" when rules haven't actually been set in the first place. Arceus is not "illegal" unless that has been established by the competitors or the venue of competition beforehand.
 
You still haven't sufficiently explained why it's an "illegal Pokemon." Because you said so? Because everyone should agree with you? Who sets the law of Pokemon? At least attempt to be intellectually honest instead of repeating the word "illegal" over and over until people agree with you.

So I say again: Over 10 million people bought Pokemon D/P and play it for fun. Smogon, meanwhile, has fewer than 20,000 users. Even if the rules here influence 50,000 users worldwide, that's still about .05% of the owners of Pokemon who consider Smogon rules the standard. Even if we are right about the "best" way to play pokemon competitively, it is the height of arrogance to just expect everyone who plays pokemon to agree with you on what the rules should be. 99.5% of the people who play Pokemon play under different rules.

It's time to drop the arrogance and indignation when someone disagrees with you and/or breaks a "rule" when rules haven't actually been set in the first place. Arceus is not "illegal" unless that has been established by the competitors or the venue of competition beforehand.

To be fair, he never said that these rules should be true everywhere. If anything, maybe he just wants these to be the ground rules here on Smogon.
 
So I say again: Over 10 million people bought Pokemon D/P and play it for fun.
However, how many of those very same people who bought D/P for fun also bought an AR to go along with it? I imagine that it would not be the majority. Thus, I don't think you should cite the majority as evidence that, ultimately, Arceus should be allowed. If it is true that the majority of the 10 million people do not have AR, it would also be true that the majority of Pokemon D/P purchasers completely lack even the opportunity to obtain Arceus at this point, in which case it is unfair to say that Obi's purported "rule" (which I believe he is stating as a matter of principle, rather than as demanding a change to global WiFi rules) is speaking only for the Smogon minority. If anything, Obi would be speaking for the majority who cannot obtain Arceus.
 
^In the store I frequent most in my home town, for the entire month after D/P was released, ARs were flying off the shelves. :P

I just thought that was hilarious, I'm not trying to make a point.
 
If the majority of people who own Pokemon D/P also own an Action Replay, well, I'd find that rather saddening. I just find it unlikely to be the case - it costs about $25, which is not pocket change for most people.

Ironically (and depressingly), you can buy it together with D/P as a bundle on Amazon and save $1.

But anyway, none of my brother's friends who play D/P owns an AR. None of my friends do, and I don't... so my pointless anecdote vs. yours!
 
^Dude, $25 bucks? That's totally chump change for an AR. Why? Because I could make 25 bucks in less than 3 hours of work, 4 hours at a minimum wage job @Mcdonalds.

Even if you only use it for cloning and fast hatching to check natures (or even just for cloning), you're saving hours and hours of time over the indefinite future. Eventually you'll save so much time, that the 25 bucks will mean almost nothing weighed against the value you get on it (in terms of time saving). Simple Economics (On another note, I just finished my Accounting final, and I think I kicked ass on it-- yay!!).
 
Keep in mind Chou that the vast majority of Pokemon players probably can't legally obtain a job, as they are below the legal limit (around here, 16 is the limit IIRC)
 
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