Arceus?

I find the arguments of people saying "Link Battles don't enforce Sleep Clause, or disallow the use of current Ubers" a bit silly.

It's pretty obvious that the reasoning behind those is because of our competitive based rules, not the fact that a Pokémon is currently unobtainable lol. Please...

There is no comparison that can be made between the allowing of Arceus and anything else.
 
Syberia, when you say:

Well you can get around the Evasion clause and OHKO clause arguments by saying they're not changing the game, but rather banning moves before the game even starts.
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how is that any different from either method of enforcement of Sleep Clause that Obi pointed out? For whatever reason we are placing restrictions on moves, we just have to enforce it in a slightly-trickier manner regarding Sleep because they inherently are not banned themselves. Banning OHKOs and Evasion moves is actually less "true to the game" (your words) than attempting to enforce Sleep Clause, because some games (Stadium) actually do try to enforce Sleep Clause.

And my "for whatever reason" above is specifically what I addressed in my previous post: competitive pokemon should be regulated with the utmost fairness, legitimacy and respect to the inherent betterment of competitive pokemon. This is that chief reason we employ the Sleep Clause, regardless of how many cartridge games have tried to do so, and this is why we "invented" the Evasion and OHKO clauses at the turn on the millenium. Attempting to get back on topic, this doesn't apply to the Arceues issue, but that is what the "legitimacy" characteristic is there for.
 
Jumpman16 said:
I was under the impression that using Japanese DP with the Ditto/Mimic trick or whatever actually made this possible.
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If we believe that the Japanese Mimic glitch is legitimate or are simply unconcerned by what Pokémon can legally be acquired in the original software we must ask ourselves why we have made a not insignificant effort to define every unobtainable variation of every Pokémon. Are we saying that Haze/Mist/Supersonic Dratini should be legal because nobody would use it anyway? Should we discuss the viability of the impossible Nasty Plot/Tri Attack Togekiss before it is banned from Shoddy? We could save DougJustDoug some trouble if the consensus is that the list should not be implemented.

If the Mimic glitch is not legitimate the analogy between Arceus and any of these other characters remains. Their availability requires hacking. They're all waiting to get the green light from some nebulous future event. It's reasonable to exclude these illegitimate Pokémon from the simulation for now.
 
obi said:
jrrrrrrr said:
In RBY, Mew could only be gotten through a glitch...but didn't we still allow it in Ubers play? What is the difference here? It's not like Arceus is fake, we know it is supposed to be in the games, we know exactly which moves it has, its ability, its stats, its sprite and pokedex entry, etc.
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As soon as someone finds a method by which you can obtain Arceus, I will drop this argument.
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As I mentioned earlier in this thread, Arceus has been obtainable since the Japanese release of D/P through the same glitch that allowed players to prematurely catch Darkrai and what we now know as Land Form Shaymin. However, this use of the glitch got a lot less publicity since it permanantly traps you in Sky Pillar once you have battled Arceus, rendering it unusable in any kind of battle. IIRC you were against allowing Darkrai and Shaymin anyway, so I doubt this will change your mind; however you should take into account the fact that Arceus is in fact obtainable and therefore does "exist."
 
I was actually under the impression that you were stopped until just before battling Arceus, not after. However, you can't battle with it, which is the relevant part.

I was not against allowing Shaymin and Darkrai.
 
TAY where did you find that Arceus is obtainable through the glitch? I heard that you can't because Hall of origin is in a very high altitude, unlike Flower Paradise/New Moon Island which are at sea level.
 
Would anyone agree with just having a vote on this?

Members with PR acess could have a vote for a week or so, to see "which side wins" in a sense. Obviously there's enough people who "don't care" about not being able to get a legitimate version in-game, where as there are quite a number of members who do agree with not using it even in Ubers until we really can in-game.
 
Just so long as people realize that a vote to "ignore" the confines of the game may set a precedent that leads us down a slippery slope. If Arceus is allowed, then we've pretty much said that "confines of the game" doesn't mean much in terms of what we decide. Should illegal egg move combinations be allowed because "hey, both the moves exist in the pokemon's movepool?" Should the concept of illegal IV combinations be thrown out because "hey, you can have a 31-all whatever the hell you want as long as you use AR, which we support because we allowed Arceus?" Should we allow Belly Drum/Wonder Guard Spiritomb with 252 in every stat because, again, it's obtainable through AR, same as Arceus?

Yes, I know I pretty much changed my opinion with this post.
 
lol come on, that argument could be countered with "we're not idiots." Do you really think anyone with access to PR thinks that Arceus provides precedent for illegal movesets and / or something as retarded as Wondertomb?

All that stuff you mentioned is totally irrelevant, because there is a very high chance that Nintendo intends to make Arceus available in the future, while chance of any of those things happening is extremely low. Not to mention that to catch Arceus it isn't like you make this weird fake pokemon appear, you hack a presumed Nintendo event, and once you have the ticket or whatever it is you can catch Arceus within the confines of the game. D/P was set up so that you would be able to catch Arceus. It was not set up to let the player do any of the things you mentioned.

I do understand the point of view that Arceus should not be allowed, however the whole "slippery slope" argument is totally worthless here as this a unique situation and honestly an incredibly small step to take.
 
And to that I direct you to my first post on the second page which asks what your apparent hurry is if you're one who wants Arceus available on Shoddy asap.
 
Well, since it is possible to obtain Arceus through a glitch, regardless as to if you can actually battle with it or not because of that glitch then I don't really see much of a problem in allowing it.

Darkrai and Shaymin were allowed on Shoddy because it was possible to catch them with a glitch before they were confirmed or released by Nintendo. Its the same with Arceus, and through Pokesav and the like we were able to use Arceus and see that there is nothing stoping it from being used in any types of battles such as with Giratina-O and Shaymin-S. So if we have all the information we need about it, why should we continue disallowing it?
 
Because you can't actually use it, as you could with Darkrai and Shaymin (not that that was a reason to allow them, as we weren't the ones who did that anyway, Colin did). Did you even read this thread =/
 
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