(Archive) Small Subjective Changes Thread

[eric the espeon]

OU Speed tiers additions from the latest OU list (may add myself at some point, but if someone else could it would be great). Wonder if many small changes like this fit here well enough..

252 Spe is assumed unless otherwise stated

+1 + Nature Tyranitar
+1 Tyranitar
+1 + Nature Latias
| Latias | Item | Choice Scarf | 24.3 |
| Latias | Speed EV | Max | 87.6 |
at least 11.9% use it.
+1 + Nature Jirachi (most common set >_>)
+ Nature Jirachi (after trick)
+1 + Nature Rotom-A (40% use it)
216 Gliscor
216 + Nature Gliscor
Gliscor
+ Nature Gliscor
216 Gliscor
+1 + Nature Magnezone
84 Magnezone
No speed Machamp
+2 116 Zapdos (11% use it)
+1 Kingdra
+2 + Nature Kingdra
+2 Kingdra
232 Empoleon
+2 232 Empoleon
No Speed Empoleon
No Speed Forretress
No Speed - Nature Forretress
+1 Togekiss
No Speed Tentacruel
+ Nature Tentacruel
+1 + Nature Smeargle
No Speed Hippowdon
+1 + Nature Ninjask (maybe)
+1 Ninjask (maybe)

edit: all on SCMS. deleting.

 

[-Meowth-]

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/absol

Choice Band set.

Why is the Lonely nature there, if Fire Blast is not even mentioned as a move on that Absol?

 

[Komodo]

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/absol

Choice Band set.

Why is the Lonely nature there, if Fire Blast is not even mentioned as a move on that Absol?

This is a pretty obvious mistake, I removed it, just wait for staff to approve it.

 

[Frizy]

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/salamence
Other options mentions a Choice Specs set, yet there is already one on the analysis.

(Sorry if this is in the wrong place.)

 

[eric the espeon]

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/salamence
Other options mentions a Choice Specs set, yet there is already one on the analysis.

(Sorry if this is in the wrong place.)

Fixed, this is the right place to post (this change could have fitted in either small changes thread I guess).

 

[Chameleon]

Gastrodon EV Spread - Stockpile set

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/gastrodon

Hello,

I recommend one minor change to the EV spread of Gastrodon's Stockpile set.

The current EV spread invests in a 252Hp/128Def/128SpD spread with an impish or bold nature. This gives us defensive stat totals of 426/224/232.

However, with an EV spread of 252Hp/214Def/44SpD with a careful or calm nature, we obtain a defensive stat spread of
426/225/232. Thus we gain one extra stat point!

The extra stat point was placed in defense in accordance with the EVs section of the analysis, which states, "Stockpile sets should split defensive EVs, with a slight bias towards Defense."

All calculations were made using the Smogon Damage Calculator.

 

[Komodo]

This is correct, I edited this.

 

[PK Gaming]

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/breloom
I believe there is a problem with the current Breloom EV spread.


48 HP / 252 Atk / 208 Spe

Now the analysis states that 208 speed is neccesary to outspeed 4 Speed Gliscor yet... There is literally 0 sets that enforce such speed. I'm serious.


http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/gliscor


Honestly, I'd just go 252 Atk/252 Hp/ 4 SpD
for Breloom for the added bulk. (The 4 SpD being there because his weaknesses are mostly specially based)

(Alternates would be running 124 speed to outspeed some suicunes/cresslia, but I do not find that these pokemon are dominant enough to warrant such changes)

 

[rayquazamaster776]

http://www.smogon.com/dp/articles/sunny_day_guide

Uses a really old tier list, meaning it needs quite a bit of change.

(Is this the right place for this?)

 

[eric the espeon]

rayquazamaster776: That guide requires quite a major revamp, so thanks for pointing it out but this is not the correct place for it. This thread is for small changes, not extensive rewrites which need to go through peer review. This thread would be the most appropriate place for it, or you could talk to a writer who knows the metagame and may feel like taking it on.

 

[MegaMewtwo]

I'm not sure if this is the right thread or if this should go in the other "corrections" thread, but Spiritomb's Curse set says that you can stack Ghost Curse to increase the Curse damage. You can't. Ghost Curse fails if you try it against something that's already Cursed.

 

[Masked King]

I'm not sure if this is the right place for this type of thing, but I would remove all mentions of Cresselia in the Azumarill analysis.

 

[AuntAcid]

I'm not sure if this is the right place for this type of thing, but I would remove all mentions of Cresselia in the Azumarill analysis.

I don't think Cresselia was mentioned in Azumarills analysis because of her recent and brief placement in UU, but rather for damage calculations.

 

[shade]

i was just browsing through the website and on feraligatr's other options i saw this:

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/feraligatr

Feraligatr does have a stronger move than Waterfall, which is Aqua Tail. It shouldn’t necessarily use Aqua Tail over Waterfall for a couple of reasons. Waterfall has a chance to flinch which could help Feraligatr greatly in scoring 2HKOs without being hit by a move, and Aqua Tail has a chance to miss which could ruin Feraligatr in some cases when it has achieved a couple of boosts via Swords Dance or Dragon Dance. Feraligatr can become a “bulky Water” in a sense with Rest and Sleep Talk, but there are many other Pokemon that achieve this better than Feraligatr. The only exception Feraligatr has is by using a RestTalk set with Dragon Dance included, allowing Feraligatr to boost its stats as it sleeps and can sweep at the same time. Dragon Claw and Rock Slide are only useful against Altaria, but Rock Slide does have a chance to flinch which could be useful in some cases, while Crunch can be used to smack bulky Ghost- and Psychic-types such as Mismagius and Slowbro. Feraligatr can make use of a Substitute and Focus Punch set, but once again, there are much better Pokemon that are capable of doing this, like Poliwrath. Besides using Focus Punch, Feraligatr has another powerful Fighting-type attack it could use, that being Superpower. Even though it's a primary option on the Choice band set, using Superpower on one of the sets that boost Feraligatr's stats is not entirely recommended, as it lowers Feraligatr's Attack stat (which Dragon Dance and Swords Dance both boost, making it a bit of a waste) and it lowers Feraligatr's Defense stat, leaving it vulnerable to faster physically-based threats or Pokemon that have access to priority moves. Not only does it have a powerful Superpower attack, but it also boasts Dragon Claw and Outrage, both decent options to have against Pokemon that resist Feraligatr's Water-type STAB, like Altaria.

I just felt this was repeating itself and could be worded far better.

(mekkah told me to post this here)

 

[Reflect Suicune]

The first bolded phrase can be removed; and the remainder of the sentence should then read:
Rock Slide has a chance to flinch, which would be useful in some cases...

 

[MegaMewtwo]

My post here was removed, which lead me to assume that the thing I brought up was fixed, but it's still there.

Spiritomb's Curse set says this:

Rest also allows Spiritomb to "stack" Curses; by restoring Spiritomb's health, it can increase the secondary damage done by 25% for each Curse

This is untrue. Ghost Curse fails if used against something that's already under the effects of it, much like you can't "double poison" something.

Again, I apologise if this isn't the right thread.

 

[ck49]

http://www.smogon.com/dp/articles/baton_pass_chains#counters

I think under priority, scizor should be there. Considering it relies on priority and is the most commonly used pokemon and all.

 

[supermarth64]

Got that, thanks coolking.

 

[MB Espeon]

Incomplete data for Magic Guard ability.

Magic Guard negates curse as well, at least when I tested it in a wifi battle on Pearl. If you want, you can check for yourself.

...and by curse I mean curse used by an opponent's ghost. The 1/4th of max HP damage every turn doesn't affect a Magic Guard user.

 

[ck49]

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/parasect

In the psychic spooker set, I don't get why there are 4 speed evs. It doesn't out speed anything significant outside of Slowbro, who would switch out anyway. The 4 evs might be better off placed in a defense, as slowbro fails to 2ko without stealth rock, while you 0hko, and there is a speed tie anyways.

 

[Tira_ShadowHeart]

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/victreebel

I don't battle often enough to spot the instant flaws you'd see below, but I thought it might be useful to point a couple of moves out.

In the Other Options section, saying that Victreebel has Razor Leaf for STAB is inaccurate, as it also learns Leaf Blade and Seed Bomb. Another (semi-useful) physical option would be Sucker Punch, as it bypasses Victreebel's mediocre speed, and can hurt Grumpig and Hypno (two mentioned counters) rather badly. Makes a mixed set possible...?

Another move I'd include on the Other Options would be Wring Out, for quick special damage? Weakens the opponent if not an OHKO, then Sucker Punch for the finish...

Also, on the Sunny Day set, Hidden Power Fire could be replaced with Weather Ball for a stronger Fire attack, leaving Hidden Power Ice open for the last slot; you wouldn't have to choose between the two.

 

[The SPrinkLer]

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/scizor

I'd like to add this part about Scizor:

"Scizor can also utilize U-turn on the Swords Dancer set. While it may seem peculiar to use a move that forces you to lose your boosts on a set-up Pokemon, it can be a great scout early game. It will allow Scizor to meet its counters early game, and effectively wear them down for a Bullet Punch sweep later."

 

[Pokéberry]

On the Drapion set "Choice Band"

(http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/drapion#Choice_Band)

Night Slash is listed as the basic Dark-type move.

Is it used instead of Crunch because of breeding restrictions associated with Pursuit or Ice Fang? Is it used for the one-in-eight chance of Sniper nailing a weak point? If no and no, then Crunch should be listed, as it has 10 more base power.

 

[eric the espeon]

Requested confirmation testing on Ghost Curse/Magic Guard in research thread, there is a full revamp of Victreebel here which should solve those problems and more if you want to help with it, QC is looking at the Scizor and Drapion changes and seems likely to implement them soon.

 

[Pokéberry]

Medicham only has three sets listed: Physical Choice and Reversal. As a result, there is no mention of the absurdly overspecialized set with which one would kill Skarmory without those items (Hi Jump Kick to Rock Slide flinch to Hi Jump Kick). If it doesn't merit a mention in the main text, it would be nice for it to be wedged into the Rock Slide mention in the "Other Options" section.
__________________

On a similar note, both of Medicham's listed sets contain Psycho Cut. Zen Headbutt is turned down for the Choice Band set because "Medicham often needs an accurate STAB move paired with High Jump Kick." However, according to the author, "Zen Headbutt's flinch chance can...come in handy" for the Choice Scarf set.

The ratio of average power for the moves is
415 (PsC)
408 (ZHb).