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I checked the Omnibus and the DAT is correct to waht was implemented...but what the Omnibus has is completely different from the actual effect. I'm guessing there's some discrepancy somewhere so I'm gonna bring this up with Deck Knight next time I see him to discover his intent behind that.
So, I'm posting here again to bring up implementing a new move again: Celebrate (aka Splash clone).
This is a move that has been released as of October 12, 2013, and is currently available on Pikachu, Raichu (By way of evolution), and the Eevee line. It doesn't actually have any effect in battle, but it is still a move, and thus we should probably implement it into ASB, which should be fairly easy to do given its (lack of) effect. Finally, below are the obligatory links to Serebii's and Bulbapedia's Attack listings and Event databases:
Celebrate: The Pokemon temporarily disappears and a present drops down. The present then unfolds and the Pokemon pops out, congratulating its trainer.
Attack Power: -- | Accuracy: -- | Energy Cost: 1 | Attack Type: Status | Effect Chance: -- | Contact: No | Typing: Normal | Priority: 0 | CT: Deferring | Target: User
If anyone has any objections, then we might as well go ahead & implement this. Splash clone means it should just cost 1 EN, the closest thing to doing nothing.
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While I am here I am going to bring up the pledges. Basically the way they work in ASB is confusing at best, & I feel like we could rework it to make it closer to its ingame effect.
Fire Pledge: A mystical power causes fire to spread across the battlefield. When used the same action as Grass Pledge, Grass Pledge is ignored and Fire Pledge bursts out, covering the opposing field in burning leaves that deal 2 HP per action for six (6) actions. When used the same action as Water Pledge, Fire Pledge is ignored and a rainbow shimmers down on the user's side of arena, increasing the effect chance of any attacks used by 30% for six (6) actions (does not stack with Serene Grace). All Pledge attacks target a single foe, but effect one side of the arena depending in their effect. The BAP of an enhanced pledge becomes 20 instead of 8.
Attack Power: 8 or 20 | Accuracy: 100% | Energy Cost: 6 | Attack Type: Special | Effect Chance: -- | Contact: No | Typing: Fire | Priority: 0 | CT: Set| Target: Adjacent Target
Grass Pledge: A mystical power causes grass and foliage to spread across the battlefield. When used the same action as Water Pledge, Water Pledge is ignored and the arena underneath the opponent's side descends into a murky swamp, halving (0.5×) the speed of the opponents team for six (6) actions. When it used the same action as Fire Pledge, Grass Pledge is ignored and the move bursts out, covering the opposing field in burning leaves that deal 2 HP per action for six (6) actions. All Pledge attacks target a single foe, but effect one side of the arena depending in their effect. The BAP of an enhanced pledge becomes 20 instead of 8.
Attack Power: 8 or 20 | Accuracy: 100% | Energy Cost: 6 | Attack Type: Special | Effect Chance: -- | Contact: No | Typing: Grass | Priority: 0 | CT: Set | Target: Adjacent Target
Water Pledge: A mystical power causes water to spread across the battlefield. When used the same action as Fire Pledge, Fire Pledge is ignored a Rainbow shimmers down on the user's side of the arena, increasing the effect chance of any attacks used by 30% for six (6) actions (does not stack with Serene Grace). When used the same action as Grass Pledge, Water Pledge is ignored and the arena underneath the opponent's side descends into a murky swamp, halving (0.5×) the speed of the opponents team for six (6) actions. All Pledge attacks target a single foe, but effect one side of the arena depending in their effect. The BAP of an enhanced pledge becomes 20 instead of 8.
Attack Power: 8 or 20 | Accuracy: 100% | Energy Cost: 6 | Attack Type: Special | Effect Chance: -- | Contact: No | Typing: Water | Priority: 0 | CT: Set| Target: Adjacent Target
Fire Pledge: A mystical power causes fire to spread across the battlefield. When used the same action as Grass Pledge, the attack bursts out, covering the opposing field in burning leaves that deal 2 HP per action for six (6) actions. When used the same action as Water Pledge, the attack bursts out, and a rainbow shimmers down on the user's side of arena, increasing the effect chance of any attacks used by 30% for six (6) actions (does not stack with Serene Grace). When used the same action as Grass/Water Pledge (within the same priority bracket), the pledge used first is ignored, while the pledge used second is used immediately after the first user, and its power is enhanced. The BAP of an enhanced pledge becomes 20 instead of 8. Fire Pledge cannot be boosted by Fire Gem.
Attack Power: 8 or 20 | Accuracy: 100% | Energy Cost: 8 | Attack Type: Special | Effect Chance: -- | Contact: No | Typing: Fire | Priority: 0 | CT: Set | Target: Adjacent Target
Grass Pledge: A mystical power causes grass and foliage to spread across the battlefield. When used the same action as Water Pledge, the attack bursts out, and the arena underneath the opponent's side descends into a murky swamp, halving (0.5×) the speed of the opponents team for six (6) actions. When it used the same action as Fire Pledge, the attack bursts out, covering the opposing field in burning leaves that deal 2 HP per action for six (6) actions. When used the same action as Fire/Water Pledge (within the same priority bracket), the pledge used first is ignored, while the pledge used second is used immediately after the first user, and its power is enhanced. The BAP of an enhanced pledge becomes 20 instead of 8. Grass Pledge cannot be boosted by Grass Gem.
Attack Power: 8 or 20 | Accuracy: 100% | Energy Cost: 8 | Attack Type: Special | Effect Chance: -- | Contact: No | Typing: Grass | Priority: 0 | CT: Set | Target: Adjacent Target
Water Pledge: A mystical power causes water to spread across the battlefield. When used the same action as Fire Pledge, the attack bursts out, and a Rainbow shimmers down on the user's side of the arena, increasing the effect chance of any attacks used by 30% for six (6) actions (does not stack with Serene Grace). When used the same action as Grass Pledge, the attack bursts out, and the arena underneath the opponent's side descends into a murky swamp, halving (0.5×) the speed of the opponents team for six (6) actions. When used the same action as Fire/Grass Pledge (within the same priority bracket), the pledge used first is ignored, while the pledge used second is used immediately after the first user, and its power is enhanced. The BAP of an enhanced pledge becomes 20 instead of 8. Water Pledge cannot be boosted by Water Gem.
Attack Power: 8 or 20 | Accuracy: 100% | Energy Cost: 8 | Attack Type: Special | Effect Chance: -- | Contact: No | Typing: Water | Priority: 0 | CT: Set | Target: Adjacent Target
Basically this puts Pledge Moves in line with how they act in-game. The changes are:
Instead of a certain pledge being ignored, the pledge ignored for the combined attack is the pledge move being used first. (If both moves are in the same priority bracket)
The user of the second pledge move acts immediately after the first pledge move. (If both moves are in the same priority bracket)
Pledges cannot be boosted by their respective Gems, just like ingame.
Because of how powerful they will be, I have boosted the Energy Cost to 8 for compensation.
This is inherently a pledge buff, yes, but I want to make the effects of the pledge moves less confusing (i.e. following in-game), & with it, a minor buff with a boosted EC to compensate. The proposed pledge effects could also be reworded even better than I can as well, because my grammar is not the best either.
Anyhow, I reworked the pledges so the whole combination thing only works when both moves are of the same priority bracket, to prevent bullshit like:
Mon 1: Grass Pledge
Mon 2: Fire Pledge + Fire Pledge combo
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Also here to announce that the Size Class & Weight Classes of Pumpkaboo & Gourgeist were incorrect, & were larger than they were supposed to be. I have fixed the classes, & you may find the updated versions in the Spreadsheet Tables.
I would like to raise a balance issue, which although narrow, may become an issue in the future. Although I haven't played with Mega Kangaskahn, in a 'pick your own abilities' arena. I was able to give my Honedge Parental Bond. I will admit i did have two other boosting abilities, but i feel that Parental Bond may be verging on too powerful.
My solution would be to add a small energy cost (like that of technician or skill link), in order to reduce the likelihood of a single Parental Bond Pokemon demolishing an opponent.
Let's just wait until we actually see Mega Kangaskhan in action before we modify Parental Bond. Changing it with the argument "it breaks Honedge in Animation Studio" is like using the argument "we should nerf move X because it breaks Pokémon Y in Unown Soup." Animation Studio/Unown Soup is intended to be a gimmick, and we shouldn't change something with the argument that it breaks something in one of these "gimmick" arenas.
On the flip side, Mega Kangaskhan does seem powerful, but it doesn't seem like Parental Bond will push it over the edge.
Someone clearly has never payed attention to Maxim when he uses it. Stop using no one has used it as an argument; it is weak, & is a pathetic attempt to try & sweep an issue under the rug. Deoxys-D last gen (iirc) was quite rare in the meta when it was around, yet it was kicked upstairs.
I have always thought we should either attach a energy cost to Parental Bond, or cap the boost Parental Bond gives (2 or 3 seems good). That is how I feel it should be fixed.
Yeah, I agree with the Energy Cost along the power boost being changed to BP/2 (maybe with a minimum of 4 or something? idk) this is a better version of Technician, so the energy cost reflect this, the dmg nerf follows what Deck said about why abilities like Guts and Flare Boost can't be +3 since they affect all moves coming from the user, which this ability does, while still keeping it pretty good since right now Parental Bond dmg formula works as follow:
(BP x 1.5) + (Rank Difference x 2) + ([IF] STAB x 2) + ([IF] Ability boosts x 2) + ([IF] Stat Boosts x 2) + ([IF] Item Boost x 2)
which basically gives a MegaKhanga +6 STAB along with a huge advantage against anything with less thank rank 5/6 defense , a rank 3 def mon takes +9 dmg from adamant Mega Khanga on a likely SE attack, +15 if STAB and that's without taking into consideration the BP of the moves (so +20 from Return/Frustration). This change make MegaKhanga's attack boost a lot more reasonable (even though combinations remain pretty scary)
Oh son of a bitch another new move, eh? With the release of PokéBank in Japan, Celebii with Hold Back is now available. It should be easy enough to implement, saying its an exact clone of False Swipe, so here we go:
Hold Back: The user holds back when it attacks and the target is left with at least 1 HP.
Attack Power: 4 | Accuracy: 100% | Energy Cost: 3 | Attack Type: Physical | Effect Chance: -- | Contact: Yes | Typing: Normal | Priority: 0 | CT: Deferring | Target: Adjacent
Let's add Fairy Wind to the list of moves that are powered up when combined with Gust. It's a pretty lame move otherwise and it makes a ton a sense flavor-wise.
Can we update Nature Power to Gen 6? also, Mud Sport and Water Sport reduce Electric and Fire moves damage by 50% but Bulba reports the amount to be 67% so that could be corrected too
I have yet to see any match where Protean has proven to be "beyond broken and horribly designed" or even close to that. Can you please direct me to one?
....I dont remember that bit about Protean, but since it somehow got there (Must have been sleepy/on a hurry), i might as well give my thoughts.
The thing about Protean is that it literally forces you to sub for the type changes. Take Greninja for example. He can be Flying/Rock/Fighting/Ground/Ice/Grass/Bug and, with the apropriated Hidden Power, something else.
With this selection of types, if Greninja orders second, he will be able to resist every single type in the game. Of course, the person ordering first will just sub for the type changes, but...
You see, if you spend your subs on making sure he wont resist whatever you use, you are opening yourself for whatever the hell Greninja wants to do. He will be able to taunt, toxic, Double-Team, Bounce/Dig, Protect or just murderer you with any of his STABs and you cant do a damn thing about it, due to his great speed. Kecleon's situation is similar.
Unlike Greninja, Kecleon gets just about every coverage move in the game, which guarantes you WILL need to use at least two subs so it wont resist your moves. It gets a free pass to Paralyse, set Trick-Room, Rocks, Encore, Magic Coat, Counter, Double-Team, Dig, etc through the round, and again, you can not do a damn thing about it.
If you are fighting a Protean mon, you will, most of the time, have two choices: Hitting your opponent for NVE damage at best OR getting cock-blocked by the opponent's actual movepool. Yes, you can use an ability changing move, but then you get Encored into it (Kecleon), Skill-Swaped back (Kecleon again) or just Taunted/Bounced/Digged (Greninja, Kecleon under certain circustances). It is flat out impossible to actually sub against a decently built Protean mon without leaving at least one massive hole in your orders that can be exploited for an easy win.
Yes, you can still Trace or Mummy to get rid of that advantage, but if you dont carry the few mons with that, you will have a considerable disvantage.
I know i didnt fight well against Birkal's Kecleon, but whenever i had to order first, i felt utterly helpless because, no matter what i tried, it would out-damage me with a SE move + Resisting whatever i used. Really, the sole reason i managed a tie in one of these matches is because he flat out decided to NOT activate it, giving me a chance to get a combo in.
Protean is just too game-changing, puts far too much pressure into the opponent and basically gives the middle finger to our Substitutions system. All that without mentioning the free STAB, which allows these two to hit far harder than their offenses would suggest.
I understand perfectly that a considerable part of the above is theorymon, but based on the data i have seen, as well as the pokemon that got this + their movepools, i do not see how it is not too good.
I probably could have worded this better, but it is like midnight here, so w/e
And lets not forget Chatter, people! Are we implementing the 100% Confusion rate? It is not like this is going to break Chatot anyway.
I don't have anything for or against Protean. I can see how it fucks up with your turn-based system. But I feel that the stats of the mons that get it counter it somewhat. Greninja has the disadvantage of having to work with whatever move it has to do, as it can't just hit the opposing mon for SE and switch to a NVE typing at the same time more often than not. He can't just use his Water/Dark typing to fight whatever pokemon, since the second he attacks, that duel type is gone and he will have to make do. It is kind of a Double-Edged blade.
Kecleon is better at typing manipulation but has horrible stats. If the problem is with it, then it is a matter of tweaking the interation of color change and protean.
Either way, a change like that calls for either serious data (aka something that didn't come from a flashmatch) or some OMFGMADNESS brokenness. And honestly, I don't see any. Theorymon isn't enough unfortunately IMO.
But if other council member/mod thinks this warrants discussion as is, be my guest.
Going to make this quick, but a proposed amendment to the current decay system which I had designed...
Current ruling:
Using a move that raises or lowers multiple stats by 1 stage (Calm Mind, Dragon Dance, etc.) prevents the affected stats from decaying unless the move is used on the first action of the round.
Using a move that raises or lowers multiple stats by 1 stage (Calm Mind, Dragon Dance, etc.) prevents the affected stats from decaying if the move is used in the last two actions of a round.
Basically the decay system works well for Singles/Doubles, but for Triples+, it means the prospect of only having a boosted stat for one action. Of course when I first proposed the system, it was not perfect by any means. This is an improvement that makes things like A1 Calm Mind > Attack A2 in triples more worth it, as you have the boosted stat for more than one action.
Nothing changes in Singles/Doubles, the only change is that in Triples, moves like Calm Mind & Ancient Power when the boost effect occurs effectively act like a single stat single stage move in terms of locking (lock always, e.g. Bulldoze, Meditate).
Context came from when I was asked about what happened when something like Ancient Power boosted stats A1 & no further boosts occur A2.
i just updated this immediately, since we defer to game mechanics in almost all cases. If someone has a problem with this they can post in here again (guarantee they wont lol)
