Atheist/Christian buses

[Morm]

This english counterpart shows the message to the buses that started up in Toronto and are starting up tomorrow in my hometown of Calgary.


There is outcry from the religious that it's bad, it's not playing fair, it's wrong and discriminatory. However, the religious folk that are going off about this fail to acknowledge the observation that this is the fallout from christianity spamming the buses in England first, saying there is a God and trying to convert people that way.

Personally, I make one observation from all this: Everyone is retarded. I am atheist, but I'd describe myself as apathetic more. I just stopped giving a shit. I really don't like the idea of spamming your religion or lack thereof all over the place to begin with.

What do these people actually think they will accomplish? I know there is a social war raging between (mostly) christianity and atheism, since the countries that have the most atheists seem to be christian dominant, with the exception of Japan. I don't understand the logic here. Does someone actually think a hapless christian will see the bus and think "hot damn, I had no idea that I could enjoy my life. I'm so glad someone suggested atheism to me, what a fool I have been!"

Subsequently, these buses have been banned in a few places- but only the atheist variety. The christian ones are deemed fine, because nobody cares except atheists, but the atheist ones offend christians so they are nixed. How is that even fucking fair?

Ultimately, several conclusions can be drawn from this:

1. People are fucking stupid
2. No matter how you slice it, the christians were assholes for starting this and it's only going to escalate.
3. The atheists are just being fucking stupid. If they are so threatened by the christian adds that they decide to raise money to get their own to counter them, perhaps they need to think things through for themselves a bit better.
4. Both messages, everywhere as far as i know, tell people to enjoy their lives- what a fantastic waste of money, as if I didn't know this is what I should be doing.

Bus ads can be exploited to not only say something more pertinent and useful than this, but also be hilarious. Here in cagalry, we have one of a hand with a rubber glove on it, basically doing the 'staying alive'

the kicker is that the gloved hand obviously had the finger up and it was an add for a prostrate exam. Fuck, that's great advertising.

 

[umbarsc]

I don't think the atheists are exactly trying to "convert" anyone; I think they're just trying to show the hypocrisy of Christians and say "well if they can do it we should too". It's not that they're threatened, but they're just angry at Christians, and if they have a goal, it's more to do with the rights of atheists and not about turning people against Christianity.

 

[Morm]

well it's not doing a very good job of propegating any rights other than "we exist", which I'm certain most everybody knows they do. I don't think they are trying to convert either, I just don't see what the actual goal would be...

 

[Glen]

agreeing with pretty much everything you said 100%.

i don't consider myself an atheist because i seriously just don't give a fuck. i feel whether any higher power exists or not, it really doesn't affect me and my life is pretty fulfilling without him/her/it.

the christians starting it was stupid but come on, people should have kind of come to expect them to do immature shit like that. atheists reciprocating really serves no purpose whatsoever other than to grief christians, which is even more immature since they should know better; they don't believe in a big man in the sky!

 

[billymills]

I think it's rather silly. It's not accomplishing anything, yet it's wasting a ton of money (presumably).

On the upside, it's attracting a lot of a attention to public transit, which is definitely something that could be improved in North America.

 

[klarth]

I think that the advertisements are supposed to be satirical. It's fine trolling, and it's most certainly ridiculous of religious folk to say that the signs are "unfair, wrong and discriminatory".

The message isn't "Have a nice day" it's "There is probably no good, stop caring about stupid crap". The message isn't directed at atheists it's directed at those of faith. It's not telling them to "have a nice day" it's telling them "What you believe is far fetched and inane".

I can understand why the religious people would get angry but as an atheist in a predominantly christian nation I've been around religious slogans and symbols all my life. I'm guessing many Canadians have too. The sign is funny trolling but it's also a an expression of freedom.

The signs are both hilarious and beautiful.

 

[Son of Disaster]

Agreed that both sides are being retarded. However the Christian equivalent of a sign like this would be There is a God you'll burn in hell if you don't turn to him. Hence the reason i can see Christian outcry because of the signs. I'm betting the Christian ones don't tell the atheists such a negative message...

 

[Morm]

The christian equivalent of the signs was basically
"there probably is a god so stop worrying about it and enjoy your life".

Subsequently, my roommate has informed me the christian community is planning a volley of counter adds. This is just going to escalate until one side gets banned and the other one wins by default- Now, I wonder which side will be banned first? Probably the one that already has the precident of being banned.

Glen- I can't believe we agree on something for once. Not that I expected anyone to really disagree that isn't named Syberia or Lexite. I wanna clarify something though- I have no doubt in my mind at all that there is no God. I just stopped caring past that, I've resolved it for myself. Hell, I'm comfortable enough to have dated the daughter of a pastor for the last 7 months or so...


I know it's not entirely relevant but it certainly has religious implications, my roommate just informed me the catholic church has excommunicated a nine year old girl in Brazil. The reason? She was raped, impregnated and got an abortion. Out fucking standing.

 

[Son of Disaster]

hmm

The christian equivalent of the signs was basically
"there probably is a god so stop worrying about it and enjoy your life".


I know it's not entirely relevant but it certainly has religious implications, my roommate just informed me the catholic church has excommunicated a nine year old girl in Brazil. The reason? She was raped, impregnated and got an abortion. Out fucking standing.

You are missing my point. The atheists were saying. You christians are just wrong. They weren't saying hey look at my ideology and be happy. I'm not saying either is the way to go but the christian equivalent of claiming your beliefs are wrong would be here's god your wrong you'll be unhappy without him.

I'm not a fan of the catholic church myself but they do a lot of good.

 

[gorm]

I don't know how i feel about these ads

first off the initial message as read by a god fearing christian is obviously immediately rejected and creates a larger breach between this arbitrary theiest/atheist dichotomy (another one we don't need)

second it's completely decontextualized, i.e. what is god, what is is what is probably. the statement itself is completely meaningless as everything is terribly defined.

Third, enjoy your life is completely independant of whether you choose to iconify all things with "god's will". there is nothing preventing theists from "enoying life" and not worrying, quite the opposite since they actually can take comfort in the idea that they are more than the sum of their actions.

all in all i feel like beyond rattling a few angsty agnostics it's just a bad way to go about things.

if i were in charge of an ad campaign with the goal of breaching "big christianity" or whatever i'd probably start with something people all agree is important.

"do what make you happiest, not what makes you forget you're unhappy"

 

[GaryMayhem]

I find this rather amusing. Any Christian that sees this will most likely be offended. Yet ask them why we have "In God we trust" all over our legal tender and they will say nothing.

However, I don't approve of this. We don't need to start a riot against each other. Instead, we should be diplomatic and respectful. We will win nothing like this. It will only cause more tension. I simply ask people not to impose their views on me, and I will do the same in return. This way we all live happily and don't have to create tension among ourselves.

 

[Morm]

SoD, you argue that

The atheists were saying. You christians are just wrong

Of course that would be inherantly implied in their message of there is no God; however, the christian message does the exact same thing just with the tables turned. By saying there is a God, you are effectively snubbing atheists and hence the retaliation. Both sides are snubbing each other in the exact same way. If you disagree with this point it will only be fair to conclude that you have a bias, so think carefully.

second it's completely decontextualized, i.e. what is god, what is is what is probably. the statement itself is completely meaningless as everything is terribly defined.

It's not decontextualized in the least. See, the people that made the christian variant have a well defined God in mind; meanwhile, the atheists have perhaps a better defined thought in mind...(I won't explain that further, it should be self evident what defines what atheists believe).

Your view of religion, as I've seen in other threads as well, is certainly way the fuck out there (no offense). You appear to have some sort of relativism going on, in my opinion it's a way of weaseling out of coming to terms with your own personal faith by way of alot of hand waving and deep sounding questions that really don't mean anything in the slightest...at least for the purposes of this discussion, since we're talking about the two sides presented and your personal beliefs don't impact the outcome of it in the least since there won't be any third party of gorm ads saying "what is is what is probably so go out and enjoy your life". :D

I simply ask people not to impose their views on me, and I will do the same in return. This way we all live happily and don't have to create tension among ourselves.

Too bad your utopia won't exist until one side emerges as a champion, much like king of the ring.

 

[Anti]

So you can have billboards saying "Jesus Saves" but not otherwise?

imaginary friends be fucked.

 

[Terminator]

I think you're a flying monkey and I despite flying monkeys, should I kill you?

You can be christian and live happy. If you don't take anything seriously then you won't live happily; why? Because you won't accomplish anything in life and die alone. Just because christians try to avoid doing "bad things" and confess when they do doesn't mean they're some stressed idiots.

Respect people for their believs.

 

[Hipmonlee]

The christian bus is trying to save souls, the atheist bus is trolling.

The outcry from christians is more justified than the atheist buses were in the first place.

What should happen is that a small vocal group of precious christians will get pissed of and respond and nobody else will give a damn. And maybe the atheist ads will get removed and people will continue to not give damns.

Have a nice day.

 

[Trax]

All pretty dumb, but who really has a serious opinion on this beyond "let it happen, it's fucking funny".

 

[Altmer]

Just a quick note: the burden of proof for God is on Christians, not atheists.

 

[Onii]

Eh, it's just a storm in a teacup. I'm pretty sure >90% of commuters wouldn't pay attention anyway.

 

[CaptKirby]

The christian bus is trying to save souls, the atheist bus is trolling.

No fucking way. The atheists can conversely be seen as trying to save people who are wasting their time believing in a false god/gods and deluding themselves from their terribly sad fate.

Furthermore, I do not think you guys all get HOW fucking annoying Christian shit is. At my campus, there are repeatedly these huge Christian/Christian moralistic displays that crop up. Sometimes it is a bit off the main street (where the most people have to walk to classes), which is more fine, but still annoying since you have to look at it basically, but then sometimes, such as yesterday, they put it in the middle of the street at the main crossing off the street that you HAVE to cross if you go to the buses or to classes in the second most populated part of campus, to the main building (administrative offices), and this is what yesterday's said, for instance

HAVE YOU EVER STOLEN?
LIED?
BLAH BLAH MORE CHRISTIAN MORALS
ARE YOU GOING
TO HEAVEN OR HELL

Honestly, every time I see this shit, I want to punch someone in the face. It is not retarded for atheists to fight back against this, and it is immature to dismiss it as such. It may not necessarily be a positive thing, but it sure as hell is necessary with the way the situation presently is. When there are multiple sides in a fight, the one with the biggest presence usually wins. The Christians, in the United States, have the biggest presence, the biggest efforts at spreading it, the most celebrities on its side espousing its message, and this is why it is successful. I think the relative absence of it in a similar environment like Europe can prove that it is not as if the message is universally appealing to the point people latch onto it by default.

When it is 'shoved down your throat', then you are really more apt to consider it, although those who resent that will naturally resent it. It is easy to accept it because everyone else does. Who says that atheism cannot become the easy way? It is inherently easier because one stays inactive on a subject instead of proactive; one rests in what one can be sure of (that one thinks and feels as one wishes) rather than unsureness. If it gains momentum through matters like advertising and some form of subverted evangelism, then great! It may become a much larger movement.

Also, seriously, you are very wrong Son of Disaster. I get told I am going to hell by a large display or vehement proselytizers at least once a week at a major, well funded, 'top' university. Of course, since this is Texas, these people may not be from the University of Texas at all times and can be from off campus (the proselytizers, that is; the large displays are all student run).

 

[Caelum]

Hip already established what I was going to say basically. I'm atheist myself (well "technically" agnostic since I don't know for certain but that's not important), but there is absolutely no point to atheists advertising anything. It accomplishes nothing besides "hey religious people, you annoy us, stop believing." At least when religious groups advertise they actually believe that by converting people to god they are doing something good for them and helping the world. Atheists don't believe that converting someone to atheism will do much of anything besides promote more atheists. This is a case of intent and the intent of the atheists here is to just be annoying.

I'm all for more atheists, but bus ads aren't necessary and its clear they are just being done to cause a bit of controversy for no apparent reason.

PS: All bus ads are dumb, they don't do anything.

Edit @ CaptKirby: I personally don't give a shit about christian signs, they don't bother me at all. They aren't offensive and are no less annoying than toothpaste ads in my opinion.

Edit 2: Calling it now this is going to turn into a proxy "does god exist" or "god vs. atheism" discussion.

 

[akuchi]

Agreed that both sides are being retarded. However the Christian equivalent of a sign like this would be There is a God you'll burn in hell if you don't turn to him. Hence the reason i can see Christian outcry because of the signs. I'm betting the Christian ones don't tell the atheists such a negative message...

The Christian buses actually fall foul of ASA (Advertising Standards Agency) standards by claiming "There definitely is a God" - something they are repeatedly asked to provide proof for, and consistently fail to do so. Assholes.
The whole 'there is no god' thing on buses started from iirc one pissed off liberal journalist getting a bit annoyed with the constant JESUS SAVES messages and so a grassroots funding campaign started and members of the public donated enough to start our own. Which is fair enough, is it not?
I used to get the bus into college in a fairly small town. On the way through said small, quiet town, I would pass perhaps six or seven large BELIEVE IN JESUS-type signs, mostly around churches. And it pissed me off.
Why the hell shouldn't atheists/agnostics have the right to say 'there probably is no god'? There probably isn't. Find me definitive proof there is, and I'll be the first to fall on my knees and beg jesus to absolve me of my 'sins'.

 

[Luduan]

You are missing my point. The atheists were saying. You christians are just wrong. They weren't saying hey look at my ideology and be happy. I'm not saying either is the way to go but the christian equivalent of claiming your beliefs are wrong would be here's god your wrong you'll be unhappy without him.

I think you are confusing the sides. I cannot see how saying "there probably is no god" is telling them they are absolutely wrong (as opposed to the Christian ads saying "there definitely is a god"). I personally think the whole thing is a ridiculous waste of money and that all such ads should be banned, however, it is very annoying to see ads from patronizing assholes who use their misappropriated belief in an Abrahamic deity to force their inane worldview and arbitrary morality on others and then whine when someone challenges its veracity. (Notice that you never see Buddhist ads or neopagans claiming you will suffer eternal torment.) Billboard church ads of the fire and brimstone variety are ubiquitous in this part of the country and become rather irksome.

Living in the American South and being somewhat of a masochist, I often open the local (shitty) newspaper and read the opinion section. Not a week passes that all three of the following do not appear at least once: a) a letter attacking "Leftists" and "antiAmericans" in the manner of a much less articulate Deck Knight, b) a letter saying "repent or you will burn in hell", c) a letter saying "evolutionists" are the scum of the earth and will burn in hell. It is quite wearying because this sort of thing is so commonplace as to be unavoidable. I agree with Carlin that there should be an 11th commandment: "Thou shalt keep thy religion to thyself."

 

[Kumar]

Now that's just fucking dumb.

EDIT: So is what this discussion is turning into. Stay on topic guys.

 

[6A9 Ace Matador]

The Christian buses actually fall foul of ASA (Advertising Standards Agency) standards by claiming "There definitely is a God" - something they are repeatedly asked to provide proof for, and consistently fail to do so. Assholes.

Being a Catholic myself (Not strict, heck i don't even go to church or pray) i despise it when other Christians or whatever try shoving their opinions down people's throats. It attracts a lot of bad publicity, and of course pisses people off. The Christians are to blame for sparking the whole "There probably isn't a god" bus add thing. I do however, agree with Caelum and Lee, those adverts aren't hurting anyone, where as the Atheist ones are just there out of spite. By the way Akutchi, there's loads of religious people on here i presume, so Religion bashing isn't the way to go about getting your point across, but yeah, the whole point of "beliving" in something is that you don't necesarily have proof in it, just faith that it exists, which can either be brought about by personal experiances or the way you were brought up.
^^,

 

[Morm]

Just a quick note: the burden of proof for God is on Christians, not atheists.

Science cannot disprove a negative, odd as that sounds. So we will never be able to for sure say that something that isn't there actually isn't there. Christians exploit this loophole and it pisses me off. Subsequently, they really cannot prove anything themselves; the bible is perhaps one of the most historically laughable documents and that has been demonstrated time and again. Yet here we are, with people standing firm as it being 'proof' of a God. Idiots. Extraordrinary claims require extraordinary proof, and some book laced with blatent hypocrisy and error isn't anything but extraordinarily weak.

Once again, I love you CatptKirby. It seems in my stead you have posted more eloquantly what I was thinking before I could even reply. Hipmonlee, I usually agree with your sage words but this time I think you've missed the mark. The christians may be trying to save your soul, but the atheists are trying to get you to stop living and lie and wasting your time. By both standards, it's a productive and meaningful message. Of course, neither side is really trying to convert in my opinion, but mearly be an asshole to the other side.


Speaking of outrageous advertising, there was a church near my house that had a billboard that said:

GOD = TRUTH
EVOLUTION = LIES

This is perhaps the best case of scapegoatery in the history of the planet.


One thing I'm getting from all this is that it's basically preaching to the choir. People will see the bus add of choice, perhaps, and say "yeah cool I'm glad that's being shown around town" and then nothing more. It won't really do much in the way of phasing someones faith; from experience, you can't defeat the faithful in arguement. It's not because they are right, it's because they are so close minded that they cannot be swayed. It's what we call 'cheating' in science- you go in knowing the answer. If we did that for every question, Polio wouldn't even have been stopped.

Being a Catholic myself (Not strict, heck i don't even go to church or pray)

Mind if I ask what the point is then? I'm of the mindset "If you are going to go to the lake, you might as well get wet". So, either do something or don't, really. To me, believing in a God but not acting on it is really a way around things, almost covering your own ass in lieu of rational reasoning for one side or the other (if a certain side is even capable of rational reasoning, that is). It's like the very very few biologists who don't believe in evolution- without evolution, biology is but stamp collecting.