B&W Research Thread

Hey, dunno if this is a glitch or not, and has pretty much no use competitively, but I thought it would be interesting to post anyway.

When teaching a Pokemon a new move, the new move has the PP of the old move. For example, my PEEP (pigeon final evo) learned Return just now, and I overwrote Roost, and Return had 10 when I had not even used it yet. This is probably to prevent TM abuse for infinite PP.
Check teaching a move with lower PP over a move with higher PP (Replace something like Light Screen (30/30) with Protect (10/10)). Does the newly learned Protect get 10/10 PP as its supposed to?
 

ΩDonut

don't glaze me bro
is a Programmer Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top Researcher Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
I have several things that I think should be tested:

In rotation battles, can you target one of the in-active back row Pokemon? (Like, can Tabuune hit Pokabu with Heal Wave if Tabuune is the active Pokemon and Pokabu is in the back)
Nope. The active Pokemon doesn't get a choice of targets, at least from the in-game Rotation Battles.

In Rotation Battles, do abilities like Healing Heart activate and affect in-active Pokemon if the Healing Heart wielder is the active Pokemon?

Does the attack Gift Pass work if the enemy is holding an item?
Good questions.
 

TheMaskedNitpicker

Triple Threat
is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
In 5th gen Sleep acts like in 4th gen, but with a new characteristic reminiscent of Toxic poison:
_each time a sleeping Pokémon (even if it is self-induced via Rest) switches its "sleep counter" will be reseted to the same value that was chosen by the game when the sleeping move hit the Pokémon (it will reset to 3 if the sleeping move was Rest);
I would like a little more clarification concerning this phenomenon. First, are we absolutely sure that the counter doesn't always reset to the same constant number when a sleeping Pokémon is switched in? Meaning, have there been two separate accounts, one in which a Pokémon's counter keeps getting reset to 4 upon switching out and another where the counter keeps getting reset to, say, 2?
 
Can Male pokemon with TM moves from Gen 4 pass down said TM moves when breeding with Dream World pokemon? This could mean that Dream World abilities could be compatible with Gen 4 TM exclusives like Stealth Rock.
 
I'm not sure if i should post this here but i have been experiencing the following:

Since I captured a tyranitar (well a pupitar) i think Sandstorm has a secondary effect of:
All Rock-type moves accuracy are raised

My tests:(maybe i'm just lucky)
Stone Edge (100/80) 10 times and maybe more used.- always hits
Rock Blast (25/90) 10 times used.- always hits

Can anyone confirm this with the same or other not 100% accuracy rock moves?
Does sandstorm now works as hail for blizzard?, Does it still increases Sp.Def for those Rock-type pokemons?

EDIT: Funny thing is it me or when a poke uses Thrash it sounds like the 1st world beginning of Super Mario Bros?
 
U-turn\Volt Change and Choice items: If a Choice item holder uses U-turn\Volt Change to switch to another Choiced Pokemon with the same respective move, is that Pokemon locked into U-turn\Volt Change, like in 4th gen?
Code:
Choice Band Gliscor and Choice Band Flygon with U-Turn:

Turn 1:
Aianto used Iron Head
Gliscor used U-Turn
Gliscor went back to dbolt
dbolt sent in Flygon

Turn 2:
Flygon used Outrage
Aianto used Crunch

---------

Choice Scarf Gliscor and Choice Scarf Flygon with U-Turn:

Turn 1:
Gliscor used U-Turn
Gliscor went back to dbolt
dbolt sent in Flygon
Koromori used Future Sight

Turn 2:
Flygon used Outrage
Koromori fainted

---------
Choice Specs Gliscor and Choice Specs Flygon with U-Turn:

Turn 1:
Gliscor used U-Turn
Gliscor went back to dbolt
dbolt sent in Flygon
Gantoru used Power Gem

Turn 2:
Flygon used Outrage
Gantoru used Stealth Rock

---------
Choice Specs Emonga and Choice Specs Gigigiaru with Volt Change:

Turn 1:
Emonga used Volt Change
Emonga went back to dbolt
dbolt sent in Gigigiaru
Aianto used Metal Claw

Turn 2:
Aianto used Metal Claw
Gigigiaru used Return

-----------
Choice Scarf Emonga and Choice Scarf Gigigiaru with Volt Change:

Turn 1:
Emonga used Volt Change
Emonga went back to dbolt
dbolt sent in Gigigiaru
Gantoru used Power Gem

Turn 2:
Gigigiaru used Return
Gantoru used Knock Down

-------------
Choice Band Emonga and Choice Band Gigigiaru with Volt Change:

Turn 1:
Emonga used Volt Change
Emonga went back to dbolt
dbolt sent in Gigigiaru
Aianto used Metal Claw

Turn 2:
Gigigiaru used Return
Aianto used Metal Claw
Choiced Pokemon aren't locked into U-Turn/Volt Change if the previous Choiced Pokemon used the same respective move.
 
Rugged Helmet\Iron Barbs vs. Substitute: if an attacker has a Substitute up, does the attacker take damage or does the Substitute?
Tested this with jumpluff. The attacker takes damage from Rugged Helmet/Iron Barbs, not the Substitute.

Tentative (Moves in black are untested) Snatch steals NOT Conversion, Wish, Recycle, Imprison, Healing Wish, Power Trick, Lucky Chant, Aqua Ring, Magnet Rise, and Lunar Dance (Philip7086, jumpluff #1, #2)http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3018894&postcount=406
Finished testing the rest of this. Results:

-Conversion (re-tested due to some confusion): Snatch successfully stole
-Aqua Ring: Snatch successfully stole
-Power Trick: Snatch successfully stole
-Healing Wish: Snatch successfully stole

In other words, Snatch successfully stole every move on that list!

We also extensively tested Magic Coat, but jumpluff will post with our results!
 
As Phil said, we also did testing on Magic Coat as per the OP:

Magic Coat: Supposedly affects Whirlwind, Roar, Disable, Spite, Spikes, Foresight, Encore, Torment, Taunt, Odor Sleuth, Miracle Eye, Embargo, Heal Block, Toxic Spikes, Defog, and Stealth Rock
All of these worked except Encore, but there are some interesting notes.

- It stole Encore but it failed.
- Mischievous Heart cannot stop Mirror Coat from activating with Taunt. It just reflects the Taunt. Which makes sense, I guess, given Mirror Coat's priority.
- Foresight, Odor Sleuth, and Mirror Coat still seem to operate on the same sort of counter. I think that was the case in 4th gen anway, but after Mirror Coat bounced back Foresight, it was unable to bounce back Odor Sleuth until I switched, and vice versa.
 
I would like a little more clarification concerning this phenomenon. First, are we absolutely sure that the counter doesn't always reset to the same constant number when a sleeping Pokémon is switched in? Meaning, have there been two separate accounts, one in which a Pokémon's counter keeps getting reset to 4 upon switching out and another where the counter keeps getting reset to, say, 2?
Every time so far I've tested that (thanks to save states) the pokémon sleep counter has always reset to the original value with no exception (regardless of if the sleep counter was 2, 3 or 4) , so one could say the sleeping pokémon definitely can have and keep only one "sleep account" active at time for each time it is put to sleep.
 

Kaphotics

Remodeling Kitchens
is a Top Researcher Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Over at ProjectPokemon MrFuji, Guested and I tested out PokeShifting, Generation 3/4 exclusive moves and WiFi's Random Battle.

We tested Wild Pokemon Modifier Code caught Pokemon, which let us battle.
We tested PokeShifted without any exclusive tutored move (ie only moves learnable in gen 5), it let us battle. Scizor's Bullet Punch was fine...
We tested PokeShifted with exclusive tutor moves. It did not let us battle. Scizor + Superpower
We tested Wild Pokemon Modifier Code caught with exclusive tutor moves from gen 4 (illegal). It did not let us battle.

So if it never can learn a move in Black and White, it can't have that move to battle on Random WiFi.

It appears as if Random WiFi battle only allows legal Generation 5 movesets. Sup Stealth Rock!
 
Over at ProjectPokemon MrFuji, Guested and I tested out PokeShifting, Generation 3/4 exclusive moves and WiFi's Random Battle.

We tested Wild Pokemon Modifier Code caught Pokemon, which let us battle.
We tested PokeShifted without any exclusive tutored move (ie only moves learnable in gen 5), it let us battle. Scizor's Bullet Punch was fine...
We tested PokeShifted with tutor moves. It did not let us battle. Scizor + Superpower
We tested WPMC caught with exclusive tutor moves from gen 4 (illegal). It did not let us battle.

So if it never can learn a move in Black and White, it can't have that move to battle on Random WiFi.

It appears as if Random WiFi battle only allows legal Generation 5 movesets. Sup Stealth Rock!
I think you need to tell us how that Scizor was obtained in the first place, because the game might be able to detect certain hacks. And what exactly does "WPMC caught" entail?

There's already some uploaded Battle Videos that include Gen 4 TM and Tutor Pokemon over Friend Code WiFi, so we don't have to worry. I've seen plenty of Gen 4 Stealth Rock Pokemon being used, like the Uxie in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tl2UOa4oAww
 

Kaphotics

Remodeling Kitchens
is a Top Researcher Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
I think you need to tell us how that Scizor was obtained in the first place, because the game might be able to detect certain hacks. And what exactly does "WPMC caught" entail?

There's already some uploaded Battle Videos that include Gen 4 TM and Tutor Pokemon I believe. At the very least, I've seen plenty of Gen 4 Stealth Rock Pokemon that challenge your assertion, like the Uxie in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tl2UOa4oAww
This is Random WiFi battle, not Pal Pad. Entirely random opponent, not based of of the Pal Pad. They presumably follow different rules. Random WiFi only allows legal gen 5 movesets, whereas Pal Pad has no restrictions. Random WiFi didn't allow legitimate Dream World Ability Pokemon either.

Scizor was from my own RNG, and was legitimately PokeShifted, 100% legitimate. Random WiFi battle straight up rejected it when it had Superpower. When Brick Break was taught over it, it let it on.

It wasn't able to detect blatantly edited IV/Nature Pokemon either. Legitimately caught, and IVs/nature edited. It let it on. (used a Hatooboo)

(WPMC=Wild Pokemon Modifier Code, as I just abbreviated it from when I used it above).
 

Peterko

Never give up!
is a Top Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
My ally, it was my Dragonite with Slip Through against my Lugia with Safeguard/Protect/Substitude/Fast Guard
I'll test Wide Guard and defence boosting moves tomorrow.

Are there any major game mechanic differences between attacking your opponent and your ally?
I need to know as i'm testing basically anything by attacking my ally in double battles



I did it twice against each pokemon, just to verify if i calculated the damage right.
All these pokemon have 216 defence as i found it easier to see the cutoffs (i suppose this is easier for you as well).
I couldn't do Dusknoir as my pokesav can't let it have 216 def or lower so i replaced it by Graveler(105kg)

Results List

snorlax heavy bomber

vs camerupt (220kg, 1/2 damage): 30-26 damage
vs gyarados (235kg, 1/2 damage): 18-17 damage -> cutoff

<- to find where the BP jumps from 40 to 60

vs machamp (130kg): 76-72 damage
vs lickilicky (140kg): 76-74 damage
vs kingdra (152kg, half damage): 39-35 damage
vs milotic (162kg, half damage): 30-27 damage -> cutoff

<- to find where the BP jumps from 60-80

vs salamence (102.6kg): 96-87 damage
vs Graveler (105kg, 2x dmg): 192-186 damage
vs spiritomb (108kg): 92-101 damage
vs shelgon (110.5kg): 91-88 damage
vs rhyhorn (115kg, 2x dmg): 182-186 damage
vs scizor (118kg, 1/2 dmg): 39-38 damage -> cutoff

<- to find where the BP jumps from 80 to 100

vs exploud (84kg): 104-118 damage
vs tauros (88.4kg): 112-117 damage
vs charizard (90.5kg, 1/2 damage): 58-53 damage
vs garchomp (95kg): 89-85 damage -> cutoff

<- to find where the BP jumps from 100 to 120
thank you so much! actually I woke up today with the solution on how heavy bomber works (don´t know but my brain sometimes solves stuff when half-asleep/asleep) and your test results prove it

heavy bomer mechanics:

A) 120 base power, if target´s weight is lower or equal to 1/5 (20%) of user´s weight
B) 100 base power, if target´s weight is greater than 1/5 (20%) of user´s weight and lower or equal to 1/4 (25%) of user´s weight
C) 80 base power, if target´s weight is greater than 1/4 (25%) of user´s weight and lower or equal to 1/2 (50%) of user´s weight
D) 60 base power, if target´s weight is greater than 1/3 (33.3%) of user´s weight and lower or equal to 1/2 of user´s weight (50%)
E) 40 base power, if target´s weight is greater than 1/2 (50%) of user´s weight


let´s check the results:

Snorlax (460kg)
1/5 = 92kg
1/4 = 115kg
1/3 = 153.3kg
1/2 = 230kg

1. Base power jumped from 120 to 100 between Charizard (90.5kg) and Garchomp (95kg).
Theory says the cutoff is 92kg. Check.

2. Base power jumped from 100 to 80 between Rhyhorn (115kg) and Scizor (118kg)
Theory says the cutoff is 115kg. Check.

3. Base power jumped from 80 to 60 between Kingdra (152kg) and Milotic (162kg)
Theory says the cutoff is 153.3kg. Check.

4. Base power jumped from 60 to 40 between Camerupt (220kg) and Gyarados (235kg)
Theory says the cutoff is 230kg. Check.

- to be 100% sure about rounding down, please heavy bomber regirock (230kg) to see whether the BP is 40 or 60, it should be 60

- and to prove this theory as a whole, please heavy bomber the following pokémon with Emboar (150kg)

a) Gastrodon (29.9kg), Muk (30kg) and Dusclops (30.6kg)
- the BP should jump from 120 on gastro/muk to 100 on dusclops
b) Porygon (36.5kg), Migtyena (37kg) and Fearow/Togekiss/Skuntank (38kg)
- BP should jump from 100 on pory/yena to 80 on fearow/kiss/tank
c) Hippopotas (49.5kg) and Skarmory/Snover/Darkrai (50.5kg
- BP should jump from 80 on potas to 60 on skarm/snover/darkrai
d) Larvitar (72kg), Crobat/Quagsire (75kg), Miltank (75.5kg) and Golduck (76.6kg)
- BP should jump from 60 on bat to 40 on miltank


I´m not sure how the actual coding for this formula looks like in the game though...but that shouldn´t matter as we are able to make a list of BP/target for the 15 fully evolved pokémon that learn this move, similar to the list we have for grass knot/low kick

Thanks again, Mien.
Awesome work!
 
no, since Phione doesn't evolve into anything.
I thought that maybe in the game's coding Phione might be listed as evolving into Manaphy, but with no method of doing it. Would be worth a quick test.

Also, herbivore vs bullet seed. Does that give 2-5 attack boosts, or only one.
 
I thought that maybe in the game's coding Phione might be listed as evolving into Manaphy, but with no method of doing it. Would be worth a quick test.

Also, herbivore vs bullet seed. Does that give 2-5 attack boosts, or only one.
Its been proved that multi hit moves are counted as separate attacks so it will give 2-5 attacks boosts
 

ΩDonut

don't glaze me bro
is a Programmer Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top Researcher Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
I don't understand the point of Light Metal (Ability) if it doesn't alter weight-based attacks.
Well, not directly - Light Metal puts them in a different weight category, so that a normally 120 power Low Kick might then become 100 power or less. Quite hilariously, Metagross takes 120 power Low Kicks without Light Metal, and with Light Metal... still takes 120 power Low Kicks. I'll edit the description to make this clearer.

My tests:(maybe i'm just lucky)
Stone Edge (100/80) 10 times and maybe more used.- always hits
Rock Blast (25/90) 10 times used.- always hits
That's way too few data points, but I'll add it to the question list anyway.

Can Male pokemon with TM moves from Gen 4 pass down said TM moves when breeding with Dream World pokemon? This could mean that Dream World abilities could be compatible with Gen 4 TM exclusives like Stealth Rock.
I'm 99.9% certain this is not true, but I'll test it so we can shut it down as a rumor once and for all.

- It stole Encore but it failed.
What move did the Encore user use previously?

- Mischievous Heart cannot stop Mirror Coat from activating with Taunt. It just reflects the Taunt. Which makes sense, I guess, given Mirror Coat's priority.
*blink* Wha? Did you mean Magic Coat?

- Foresight, Odor Sleuth, and Mirror Coat still seem to operate on the same sort of counter. I think that was the case in 4th gen anway, but after Mirror Coat bounced back Foresight, it was unable to bounce back Odor Sleuth until I switched, and vice versa.
I'll take it you meant Magic Coat. Does that mean that if the opponent used Foresight twice, Magic Coat would bounce back the first one but wouldn't bounce back the second?

Every time so far I've tested that (thanks to save states) the pokémon sleep counter has always reset to the original value with no exception (regardless of if the sleep counter was 2, 3 or 4) , so one could say the sleeping pokémon definitely can have and keep only one "sleep account" active at time for each time it is put to sleep.
Be careful when using save states. As far as I can tell, the RNG seed for battles is always changing at a fast rate in the background, but once you enter, the RNG seed is set. In other words, if your save state rolls back to a point within the battle, the outcome of any moves - damage, sleep counters, etc. - will come out exactly the same if you use the same set of moves. What point are you restarting to?

Anyway, I've done some preliminary tests on Evil Eye and Assist Power.

Assist Power:

66 SpAttk Gallade vs. 155 SpDef Blissey, both at L50

+2 Attack: 18 damage (60 power)
+6 Attack: 34 (120-140 power, if the formula is correct it should be 140 power)

I know it's not the best research practice to only get one damage result, but it's a pretty safe assumption that Assist Power gets a fixed power boost for each stage of stat increase.

Also, it's pretty tricky trying to test this in the Double Battle Battle Subway, when my opponent keeps trying to KO me. Yes, I do make sure they don't give me any stat drops that would affect my results.

I'll test for a cap on Assist Power's power when I find the Bulk Up TM.


Evil Eye:
It's probably doubled power against Pokemon with any status condition.
85 SpAttk Dusknoir vs. 83 SpDef Doreida, burned. Both L50.

64 damage (within the 100 power range)

I will, of course, get more damage results and against different statuses as well, including confusion.
 
Do Pokemon with the Slip Through ability use a different formula for damage calculation that only uses BP, Pokemon's Attack Stat, STAB, Weakness/Resistance, and Defending Pokemon's HP?

Method of Testing: Compare the damage output of a Mischievous Heart Erufuun and a Slip Through Erufuun with Energy Ball. These Erufuun should have the same nature boost for SP.ATK and a similar IV (+- 5 points I'd say). Test on the same pokemon when doing this to avoid error.

Edit: To be slightly more blunt: Does Slip Through completely ignore the defending Pokemon's attack stat when attacking?

Also, do Power Items still "carry over" IVs in the daycare like in HGSS?

Policy Question: Would is be wise to put the tests of things proven in the OP? (i.e. have the link to the video/post that is supposed to prove/disprove it)?
 
A couple things that might be worth testing.

Hihidaruma's Daruma Mode ability.

1: It activates when Hihidaruma goes beneath 50% HP, right? What happens if it recovers enough HP to go above 50%? Does it change back?

2: Does Daruma Mode enable the alternate forme to exist, or merely the transformation to happen? IE: A Hihidaruma in Daruma Mode gets hit with Skill Swap/Worry Seed/whatever and loses Daruma Mode. Does it change back? Because I remember this being the case with Castform; if it loses Forecast, it simply just can't transform, and stays in the form it's in until it's switched out.

3: What happens if something other than Hihidaruma gets Daruma mode and goes down to 50% HP or less? Will it transform?

Seeing as there are Daruma Mode Hihidaruma available ingame, as opposed to the Dream World, I'm thinking this wouldn't be too hard to test.
 
A couple things that might be worth testing.

Hihidaruma's Daruma Mode ability.

1: It activates when Hihidaruma goes beneath 50% HP, right? What happens if it recovers enough HP to go above 50%? Does it change back?
Stellar (I believe) tested this in the Hihidaruma thread--it will transform back to normal at the end of the turn it's health went back over 50%.
 
Be careful when using save states. As far as I can tell, the RNG seed for battles is always changing at a fast rate in the background, but once you enter, the RNG seed is set. In other words, if your save state rolls back to a point within the battle, the outcome of any moves - damage, sleep counters, etc. - will come out exactly the same if you use the same set of moves. What point are you restarting to?
Well, I use savestates only when it's absolutely required, like for example to determine the sleep counter (though for Rest there is no need to savestate):
_I savestate just after the Pokémon has been put to sleep since the sleep counter is set in stone once the sleeping move hit the target, so I can determine the sleep counter without worrying about the Pokémon awakening
_then I come back to the savestate (this operation is done only once) and now that I know the sleep counter I can verify if the sleeping Pokémon stay asleep the same number of turns before every switch

so they helped me a little, otherwise I don't use them.
 
I also reported that Recycle was successfully stolen in my previous post.

Anyways, we (jumpluff and I) went and tested Power Trick and it was successfully stolen, and then re-tested Lunar Dance. So the first time we tested Lunar Dance, the Snatch Pokemon was able to prevent its opponent from executing it, but didn't die itself. I later realized that it might have been because the Snatch Pokemon was the only one in my party. This time when we tested it, it worked. This leads to two discoveries:

1. Snatch does indeed steal Lunar Dance
2. Lunar Dance will fail if the Pokemon using it is the last surviving Pokemon in your party.

We will test Aqua Ring and Healing Wish (I also want to re-test Conversion, because there might have been a translation mishap the first time) soon.
Lunar dance already failed in gen 4, if there was no replacements available.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top