B&W Research Thread

Death Phenomeno

I'm polite so just for clarity, when I'm cross I
is a Contributor Alumnus
"Reset Move" mechanics:
- Done automatically in triple battles when each team's final Pokemon happen to be on opposite sides, as shown:


(X represents the remaining Pokemon)

- Puts both Pokemon in the center position
- Done at the very end of the turn in which all other Pokemon have fainted
- Does not occur if each side's final Pokemon is close enough to deal damage without having to use long-range attacks

Are you completely sure about that? No offence, but I distinctly remember seeing a video where it happened mid-turn. Unfortunately I can no longer find it (it was probably deleted), but it went more or less like this:

There was a Baibanira on the right side, and it used Icy Wind to kill 2 opposing Pokémon, leaving a Gigaiasu on the left. Immediately after, the "Reset Move" banner appeared, and Gigaiasu killed Baibanira with a Stone Edge or something like that.

I could be misremembering, though. Sorry for any and all inconveniences.


is a Top Tutor Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
The_Chaser and I just finished testing Dragon Tail.

OmegaDonut said:
Dragon Tail: does it fail to switch out the target if the user faints from Life Orb recoil? Confirm it fails if user faints from Rugged Helmet\Iron Barbs recoil.
Testing process:

The_Chaser: Pokemon A: LO Garchomp | Pokemon B: non-LO Garchomp (both Garchomp with Dragon Tail).
Setsuna: Pokemon A: Nattorei | Pokemon B: Rugged Helmet Nattorei (Nattorei's ability: Steel Thorns)

We can conclude the following:

1. Dragon Tail does not fail to switch out the target if the user faints from Life Orb recoil. Garchomp was able to execute Dragon Tail's ability even though Life Orb killed it off right after.
2. Pokemon with the ability Steel Thorns prevent Dragon Tail from switching out the target, but only when the user of this move is below 12.5% of its health and hence dies afterwards due to Steel Thorns damage. Nattorei remained in the field after Dragon Tail attacked, and Garchomp died because of the damage inflicted by the opponent's ability.
3. Confirmed that Dragon Tail fails if the user faints from Rugged Helmet / Steel Thorns. ((Tested this one with Philip7086, not The_Chaser))
4. If a Pokemon has Steel Thorns as the ability, and it's carrying the Rugged Helmet, the order in which the attacking Pokemon will receive damage from these is the following: Ability > Item.

Mario With Lasers

Self-proclaimed NERFED king
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
Wait, does it mean Nattorei is immune to Dragon Tail's phazing effect?

And on the LO scenario, who switches in first, the opponent's or the Garchomp user's pokémon?
2. Pokemon with the ability Steel Thorns prevent Dragon Tail from switching out the target
, and the user of Dragon Tail receives proper damage from the ability. Nattorei remained in the field after Dragon Tail attacked, and Garchomp took damage by Steel Thorns.
Then nattorei is immune to dragon tail phazing, does it apply to ability "rough skin" as well?
Just finished testing.
Mummy has been confirmed to remove Slow Start

A wild Desukan appeared!
A.T.K. sent out Tuffguy (Regigigas)
Regigigas used Fire Punch!
(Yellow bar displaying ability effects activated appears)
The wild Desukan fainted.


/me huggles
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Elemental Gems: Does it "power up" even if the move does not deal damage? Such as Flame Gem powering up Will-O-Wisp?
Just tested this with my Emboar using Will-o-Wisp and no activation message happened and it was still holding the Gem afterwards. So the Gems are not used up.
Minor test: Thief no longer steals NPC trainer's pokemon's item permanently, which is a bit disappointing.

Regarding Sky Jewel + Acrobat. You get both boosts. You use the Sky Jewel right before attacking so Acrobat has double power on top of the
Sky Jewel boost. When I tried this I did about 3x normal Acrobat damage.
I think something has changed with the number of steps needed for egg hatching. I'm breeding for Erufuun right now and just as one example, I just hatched three eggs each only one step after the previous one. They were all received and hatched without ever being deposited into a box. [...]

It might somehow be linked to Flame Body [...] I'll try having something else as the active Pokemon and see if this happens again or not in the next 30 eggs. [...] if [not], I'll figure it has something to do with the ability and go from there.
I still had this sort of thing happen to me on occasion without Flame Body and now I'm pretty sure I know what's going on.

[Edit: Never mind, no I didn't--the egg cycles had always been tracked independently from any given egg. So here's a different explanation...]

Considering that the eggs that hatched much earlier than I expect consistently fell within one step of each other, I thought maybe the egg hatching cycle was now tracked independently from any given egg. If that was true, then two eggs could be received at different times in the same cycle and still hatch at the "same time" (one step after the other since two eggs can't actually hatch at the same time)... but likewise eggs should always hatch apart from each other in multiples of a full cycle. I started checking and it looks like eggs hatch in multiples of 257 steps after each other (when they're not in the same cycle) since I'm consistently getting them to hatch at the 257, 514, or 771 mark after the previous hatch.

[Edit: What I now think is going on with eggs hatching at the same time is that the egg cycle 1) doesn't reset when an egg is picked up and 2) doesn't reset or stop counting for further eggs when one egg is hatched.]

So basically two minor discoveries: the counter that determines when to hatch eggs goes up separately from eggs themselves isn't delayed by egg pickups and egg hatching, and it's now 257 steps instead of 255 or 256.

Colonel M

Anime pfps discredit your value
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Alright, SDS asked me to find the hardest Pokemon in the game (Shuckle) and proceed to do a Berry Juice test. My Hihidaruma has like 178 HP, if that helps (though I doubt it). I got a Wild Tropius to knock it down under half health (though it took forever) and Berry Juice activated. It restored Hihidaruma's Hit Points by 20 HP.

In other words: Berry Juice works just like it did in the old games. Sorry Little Cup fans.
Big testing day for me and Setsuna. Here were the things we tested, and the results:

Side Change: Can the user\target be caught with Pursuit?
We tested this using a fast Side Change Gallade versus a slow Pursuit Tyranitar. Gallade used Side Change to switch places with Smeargle, and then Tyranitar hit Smeargle with an unboosted Pursuit.

While we were testing Side Change, we discovered a few things. First of all, if it wasn't known before, this move is for Doubles and Triples battles only -- the move will fail in Singles and Rotation battles. Also, within Triples battles, the Side Change user MUST be on either the right or left side of the field. Side Change will fail if the user is in the middle position of your party. Finally, because Side Change can only be used to interchange specific positions only, you never get the option of who you want to switch with -- the game chooses for you, and always chooses the same position (the opposite side from where you currently are).

Dragon Tail: does it fail to switch out the target if the user faints from Life Orb recoil? Confirm it fails if user faints from Rugged Helmet\Iron Barbs recoil.
Setsuna and I re-tested this for confirmation's sake. To test this, we used a Dragon Tail Bagon versus a Doryuuzu holding a Rugged Helmet. When Bagon took enough Rugged Helmet damage to faint from using Dragon Tail, the move failed to phaze Doryuuzu.

Again, another new discovery while testing this! Apparently, if the Pokemon holding Rugged Helmet uses a contact move, it receives recoil damage. This makes the item a good deal less attractive... - Apparently this is not true. I'm assuming Setsuna's Pidgeot was holding Rugged Helmet itself when I attacked it with my Rugged Helmet Doryuuzu.

Sacred Sword: Does it bypass all boosts to Defense, including Reflect?
To test this, we used a Sacred Sword Terakion versus a Reflect Smeargle. Sacred Sword failed to bypass Reflect, and only did half damage. We later also tested Sacred Sword Terakion against an Iron Defense Smeargle, and Sacred Sword successfully bypassed Smeargle's defense buffs, doing normal damage (in other words, doing damage as if Smeargle was at +0 defense).

How many HP are healed if a Shedinja uses Wish?
We had to hack to test this, obviously. Shedinja's Wish only healed the incoming Pokemon 1 HP.

Outrage: In 4th gen, multi-turn moves did not lose PP for every additional turn used, with the exception of 1 PP from Pressure. Confirm that PP is now lost for each additional turn.
Finally, I just wanted to point out that Setsuna and I tested this before it went on the untested list here. Pressure now only depletes 2 PP at the turn the move is selected, and no PP while the move continues on.


To summarize, here were our discoveries:

  • A user of Side Change cannot be caught by Pursuit.
  • Side Change will only work in Doubles battles and Triples battles, provided that the user is not in the middle position in a Triples battle. In a Triples Battle, the user of Side Change will always switch with the Pokemon on the opposite side of its party.
  • Dragon Tail will do damage to, but not phaze the opponent if the opponent is holding Rugged Helmet and the Dragon Tail user dies to its recoil damage.
  • Sacred Sword does not bypass Reflect, but it does bypass defensive stat boosts provided by moves like Iron Defense.
  • If Shedinja uses Wish, the recipient will only be healed 1 HP.
  • Pressure will only deplete 2 PP on the turn a multi-turn move is selected, and 0 PP for every turn the move continues on without the act of selecting it.

Mario With Lasers

Self-proclaimed NERFED king
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
I went to the Victory Road with my Dragon Claw / Brick Break / Dig / Dragon Dance Ononokusu and not a single time has her Rugged Helmet been activated by her own moves.

...Unless, of course, Mold Breaker prevents Rugged damage. So I gave it to my Acrobat Emonga and... no Rugged damage. The wild Aianto, on the other hand, activated both the Helmet and lol Static with its Iron Head, so I caught it and gave it the Helmet. Even then, my own moves did not activate it.
I had my Pendoraa hold it for a while in my playthrough and I can confirm that it does not hurt the holder.

Maybe you were using a recoil move without noticing it?
Hmm, that really is peculiar. I was using Metal Claw. I assumed it was from when I was using a recoil move, because when I used Rock Slide and Earthquake, I didn't take recoil damage, but when I used Metal Claw I did. I really have no idea how that happened. I'll try to recreate the scenario and figure it out. Maybe one of Setsuna's Pokemon had Rugged Helmet, but he didn't mention that to me even after we discussed the fact that it seemed Rugged Helmet damaged the user... I'll ask him when I see him on.
I've been using rugged helmet on my Desukan for a while now and the only time it's been activated is if the opponent uses a move that requires physical contact + (grass knot).
The damage given to the opponent seemed to be set damage based on the holder's HP from what I've gathered. Though I need to try this out on a poke like blissey. I dunno where u guys got the "The item damages the user" bit from because I also used the item on my leaf blade Jaroda and received no damage from my own item.

Maybe you guys need to test this item on a shuckle and a blissey and see if you can discover something. I have a hunch that the extra damage given is based on the holder's HP.
Yeah, I'm just going to assume for now that Setsuna's Pidgeot was also holding Rugged Helmet when I attacked it. I'll verify with him tomorrow when I see him. I already edited it out of my results post.


formerly SuperJOCKE
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Top Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Are you sure it was the Ground Forme? I have all the Grass, Sandy, and Trash versions in my White, all at level 47 when they learn Leaf Storm, Fissure, and Iron Head respectively.
He's telling the truth. The same thing happened to me too.
Can someone please test Fling with the new items? I want to know what happens when you fling things such as gemstones, rugged helmet, etc.


is a Contributor Alumnus
I can confirm that if 2 pokemon, of the same level are in the party, one which is holding the EXP share and one which is not, then they share the same EXP

Pokabu final evo (level 36) BATTLER:616
Doryuuzu(level 36) EXP SHARE HOLDER:616

Gantle (level 33) OPPONENT

This happened on all occasions before the Pokémon levelled up. I didn't record their numbers though.
Any news on Analyse?

Thanks for all of your work.
Not yet, I/we don't know how much it powers up moves by (%)

Minor add: Free fall usefulness is much better in Double's & Triples. Can be used to immobilize an enemy for a turn while doing some sort of damage afterwards. However it doesn't seem to work against other flying types =/

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)