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Ladder Balanced Hackmons

To Kyu-B, maybe, but Lapras can wall Refrig Kyu-W too. Cloyster's Sp. Def and HP is about as bad as normal Deo's (45 and 50, respectively). I'm not sure if the 180 Def makes up for that HP vs. Kyub (I'm on lunch, so I can't run the calcs right now).
 
Here's calcs for Cloyster vs Lapras against Cube:

252+ Atk Life Orb Kyurem-B ExtremeSpeed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cloyster: 35-40 (11.51 - 13.15%) -- possible 8HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Kyurem-B ExtremeSpeed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Lapras: 61-73 (13.14 - 15.73%) -- possible 7HKO
 
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252+ Atk Life Orb Kyurem-B ExtremeSpeed vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Heatran: 43-51 (11.16 - 13.24%) -- 9HKO at best

Best double ice resist. This is without a defense nature. It also beats all those fairy types, by which I mean Xerneas. We should all use the hell out of this, especially since it resists priority moves now, whereas before it was weak to nature power. Someone should suggest a set, I know there was at least one person using it already. Here's an idea:

Heatran holding whatever sweepers hold
Ability: something anti sheddy or something that provides recovery, probably mold breaker or the like
Moves:
-Stab
-Stab
-shell smash or qd
-Something that kills imposters/fire/water types, probably ground judgment

Also good is ho-oh, who lacks an ice resist but is both bulky and strong.
 
Derp, knew I was overlooking something. I blame Gen V's NP.

Also forgot about Magnezone, who would totally wall Boltbeam variants.
 
ntiller said:
I've reached the top of the BH ladder many times with a combination of specific threats and general answers. Chansey+Chansey+Sheddy+Poison Heal+Magic Bounce covers 99% of anything anyone is doing in BH, and the Chanseys and PH provide a lot of opportunities to play around scary things as well.
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It's really all about following a successful pattern, I my self use an anti-gigas core, 1 is a Magic Bouncer and the other is an orb user, an Imposter, something that handles most special threats, A defensive Prankster, and a filler depending on the hole on my team. It only takes a bit of know how to reach the top of the ladder, the key is to adapt to the metagame and to first think of defensive synergy, this is the mistake of most players, they try to create the ultimate offensive pokemon without putting Imposter or the foe's offense into account.
 
harakirinosaru said:
I haven't seen any lately, but it seems like a non-Magic Bounce sweeper would be vulnerable to Prankster Topsy-Turvy.
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A Magic Bounce sweeper is vulnerable to Prankster Parting shot, which forces the bouncer to switch out. The only way to be safe from the parting/turvy prankster combo is to set up behind a sub.

Of course Heart Swap, Haze, Infiltrator and Whirlwind bypass this, but those are considerably less used than Topsy Turvy.
 
What are the best ability-neutralizing strategies? This may be stupid, but does anyone think Mummy has a use in this meta? At least against physical sweepers, it can neutralize whatever their main strategy is. Gastro Acid actually requires a turn to use, but with Prankster it can be somewhat effective. Simple Beam would also work for a similar purpose, but in some cases Simple Beam could also work to the foe's advantage.
 
Nah, simple beam is best imo. W/ prankster, it's easily used to cripple contrary mons, gigas, and setup sweepers. W/ simple beam + topsy + parting shot, pretty much any offensive mon is crippled.
 
Uselesscrab said:
What are the best ability-neutralizing strategies? This may be stupid, but does anyone think Mummy has a use in this meta? At least against physical sweepers, it can neutralize whatever their main strategy is. Gastro Acid actually requires a turn to use, but with Prankster it can be somewhat effective. Simple Beam would also work for a similar purpose, but in some cases Simple Beam could also work to the foe's advantage.
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It could work in very niche situations, but it's heavily outclassed by prankster gastro acid, which is superior in every situation with the exception of bounce sweepers. Mummy also only works with physical sweepers with contact moves (So moves like Sacred Fire and Earthquake are free to be used) while gastro works with both, and if the opposing sweeper ends up in confrontation with one of your other mons for whatever reason, it will have to be wary of using contact attacks itself since mummy can be spread back to you.
 
I'm not sure Parental Bond should be allowed to stay. No Guard w/o the drawback + 50% Shades/Tosses and 75% Super Fang? I wasn't around for the banning of the Powers but I'm pretty sure PB is as bad.
 
Because Parental Bond is nowhere near as damaging as Pure Power/Huge Power, and 150 damage points isn't hurting many mons in this tier. That being said, while it is by no means broken, Parental Bond Super Fang sounds like a great fuck you to walls.
 
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verbatim said:
Because Parental Bond is nowhere near as damaging as Pure Power/Huge Power, and 150 damage points isn't hurting many mons in this tier. That being said, while it is by no means broken, Parental Bond Super Fang sounds like a great fuck you to walls.
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this is true, but super fang+shade/toss is a two turn ko to any pokemon, even max hp blissey

there's also the fact that it breaks subs and increases the chance of on hit effects happening.
 
It's 200 points because Night Shade does set damage. You can 2HKO every non-ghost non-normal in the tier with Super Fang + Night Shade if they're unable to recover in between attacks. It doesn't even matter who the attacker is or how many defensive boots the victim has. Whether it's Xtwo or Weedle using the Super Fang/Night Shade combo, it drops in 2 hits.

Not to mention, PB Night Shade cleanly 2HKOs anything under base 100 HP.

As such, this means typically defensive mons, like Cress, Lugia, and Giratina, suddenly become offensive juggernauts without harming their bulk at all nor requiring any set-up time.

And then you have silliness like Banded PB V-Creates and stuff like that to top it all off.

Oh, and Sheddy can't wall it because almost every Fangshade PB user is also running Sacred Fire. The chance for a double burn means Sheddy can't safely wall the sets for even a single turn with a Lum Berry.


Also, unrelated, I suggest banning Gengarite, Medichamite, and Mawilite as these let the Pokemon in question circumvent the ban on Shadow Tag and HP/PP. The Pokemon themselves are fine, however.
 
Rumors said:
It's 200 points because Night Shade does set damage. You can 2HKO every non-ghost non-normal in the tier with Super Fang + Night Shade if they're unable to recover in between attacks. It doesn't even matter who the attacker is or how many defensive boots the victim has. Whether it's Xtwo or Weedle using the Super Fang/Night Shade combo, it drops in 2 hits.

Not to mention, PB Night Shade cleanly 2HKOs anything under base 100 HP.

As such, this means typically defensive mons, like Cress, Lugia, and Giratina, suddenly become offensive juggernauts without harming their bulk at all nor requiring any set-up time.

And then you have silliness like Banded PB V-Creates and stuff like that to top it all off.

Oh, and Sheddy can't wall it because almost every Fangshade PB user is also running Sacred Fire. The chance for a double burn means Sheddy can't safely wall the sets for even a single turn with a Lum Berry.


Also, unrelated, I suggest banning Gengarite, Medichamite, and Mawilite as these let the Pokemon in question circumvent the ban on Shadow Tag and HP/PP. The Pokemon themselves are fine, however.
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start running normal types with flash fire, guys...

In all seriousness, the only way I can think of off the top of my head for this is to try to kill it with ice cube, if the shadefang user has taken some damage already. (although ice cube can kill lugia and gira)
 
Rumors said:
Also, unrelated, I suggest banning Gengarite, Medichamite, and Mawilite as these let the Pokemon in question circumvent the ban on Shadow Tag and HP/PP. The Pokemon themselves are fine, however.
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I thought last gen Pokémon that normally had Shadow Tag and HP/PP could keep their abilities, so wouldn't those three still be legal?
 
Gengarnite is actually already banned iirc, me and Verbatim already discussed Mawilite and Medichamnite will not be banned, they do not affect the metagame. I honestly think Parental Bond should be banned, walling them is practically impossible. One of the best counters is Poison Heal Giratina, and even that will suffer against SE attacks.
 
I liked the idea of Parental Bond in Balanced Hackmons to begin with but it has proven to be extremely diverse and powerful, and is basically a combination of these:

Choice Band/Specs (without locked) + Serene Grace

In addition Parental Bond has a chance to critical hit twice, further increasing the chance of a single critical hit. Unlike Huge/Pure Power, this ability is strong for physical attackers, special attackers, mixed attackers and even walls (with the fang + shade/toss combo).

Edit: Similar but not quite like Adaptability xD
 
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252+ SpA Life Orb (custom) (Move 1) vs. 252 HP /255 SpD Cloyster: 187-220 (61.51 - 72.36%) --guaranteed 2HKO
Thats a Cube boomburst, not Kyu-W.

Edit: Though Cube probably wont be running modest, or even boomburst, there are still better options, like those that Rumors and Redless mentioned, that can do things besides just switch into Cube. Also, not sure what happened with the quote, my bad.

One option on Heatran is levitate (not my original idea, not sure whose though). Would wall any Cube lacking fighting coverage and can 2hko with flash cannon.
 
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Anyway, I now agree with Redless that Heatran is worth using, although it's quite vulnerable to Earthquake, a common coverage move on Cubes, and doesn't resist Sacred Fire either, in case anyone was wondering.
 
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Speculating Fur Coat Giratina as a defensive check for Parental Bonders. Immune to Super Fang, has the hp to not be 2hkod by Night Shade, and the defenses to take common coverage moves (crunch, play rough, etc.). With Aroma to heal off burns from Sacred i think it could work. Its been my primary switch because it seems my shed gets double burned a lot on the switch, however if shed gets a free switch its probably better as it can stall sacred pp with refresh/recycle.

Poison Heal Mega-Gyara is a very good PH mon imo. STAB Knock Off and Crabhammer with Dark Void and Shift Gear make it a very good sweeper that also beats imposters. Like most PHers it loses to healthy bouncers with entrainment if they are not weak to koff or hammer, though.

On an unrelated to BH note, if anyone could please tell me how to change the profile pic from a purugly, that would be great.
 
To be fair, everything vs Pbond is shaky at best, nothing is consistent against it. The problem with Mega Gyarados is that it serves no purpose that well defensively and isn't that great offensively (it's decent but Regigigas is much better offensively.)

Fur Coat Giratina is actually one of the best counters mentioned, it also serves no true defensive purpose, however, most teams would not have room for such a dedicated counter.

EDIT: Rob, you can change your profile pic in your Personal Details.
 
Adrian Marin said:
To be fair, everything vs Pbond is shaky at best, nothing is consistent against it. The problem with Mega Gyarados is that it serves no purpose that well defensively and isn't that great offensively (it's decent but Regigigas is much better offensively.)

Fur Coat Giratina is actually one of the best counters mentioned, it also serves no true defensive purpose, however, most teams would not have room for such a dedicated counter.

EDIT: Rob, you can change your profile pic in your Personal Details.
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The problem is, even fur coat giratina isn't a counter. Yes, you can wall it, but there's no way giratina can kill it.

I suppose you could parting shot to a pixilate pokemon and kill it with priority, but they'd probably switch out from that.
 
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