The darn shame is that if Mega's can be usable with any ability and item, we have to deal with Mewtwo-X/Y again. Those 2 are extremely overcentralizing, especially the latter with Protean.
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Ladder Balanced Hackmons
- Thread starter verbatim
- Start date
That was kinda what it was already
I really do suggest not having to use Mega Evolution Items because this is Hackmons after all and things are a bit different round here! Also I don't like it when my ability is changed to something that I don't want it to be when I mega evolve. Also maybe we don't even need to Mega Evolve and we can come in battle in Mega forms from the start.
If this happens, I really recommend disallowing the Mewtwo's because they are extremely overcentralizing (Mewtwo-Y alone made stall extremely hard to pull off when mega's could be used without stones.)
And if Adrian can't use stall, the planets will collide and the universe will end.
I have a proposal. It might actually be stupid, but the more I think about it the more sensible it seems.
Mega Evolutions must carry Mega Stones, but are automatically evolved. It stops them from being OP, but gives them a larger immediate boost, so they're still viable.
But maybe I'm full of shit. Thoughts?
Mega Evolutions must carry Mega Stones, but are automatically evolved. It stops them from being OP, but gives them a larger immediate boost, so they're still viable.
But maybe I'm full of shit. Thoughts?
I don't think we should ban anything except the imbalancing pure/huge power. Everyone wants to ban it, and it's bad for the diversity of the game.
But everything else? No ban yet. It is yet unclear as to whether or not there are counters to any specific strategy. The metagame has been around for no time at all, practically. As it is now, we should allow more matches to be played and strategies to be tried before we hastily ban anything.
wait2ban
But everything else? No ban yet. It is yet unclear as to whether or not there are counters to any specific strategy. The metagame has been around for no time at all, practically. As it is now, we should allow more matches to be played and strategies to be tried before we hastily ban anything.
wait2ban
The thing about mega evos is that mega evolving is almost identical to default megas. Mega evolving has the highest priority of anything else in the game! I do, however, think that there should be some way of controlling what ability your mega has before the battle, whether it be default megas without stones (like Giratina Origin) or whether the Teambuilder has some advanced "mega form options" tab.
Excellent point, redless. As I believed before the new metagame was released, we need to wait before we "shove them in a dark closet, lock the door, and throw away they key." However. Before the mega stone update to PS, mega mewtwos were romping around wild. They were so powerful, that I believe that if we can control their abilities and remove their stones, we should almost certainly ban them to hackmons. Before replying to this message, remember the days when everyone had poison heal mega2y...
I'd say we just keep the 5th gen ban-list: Pure Power, Huge Power, Shadow Tag on Pokemon that don't get them. As for Megas, we start them out entirely unrestricted because that's how BH plays: unless there are tested reasons to ban something, we keep it. Is Mega Mawile with, say, Assault Vest that overpowered against the likes of Imposter Blissey and Guts (+ Flame Orb + Facade) Regigigas/Slaking? We have no testing to confirm or deny that. In-game, or in other Smogon metagames, they might be, but here we have nothing to make us think that. The first thing I'd look at is Fur Coat, by analogy with the other Abilities that double stats; the likes of Giratina and Lugia could get overpowered with that. But we shouldn't ban anything new without playing with it in a metagame designed around everything being legal.
And even though nobody seems to be talking about it anymore, do you have any plans to temporarily enforce a sleep clause, or ban/suspect test Spore and/or Void?
I personally have no opinion or whether or not the moves or sleep are overcentralizing or bad for the meta, but it seems like no harm could come from seeing what the meta is like without them.
Fur Coat really isn't that great an ability, BH is all about walling top threats, and the most important physical top threat to stop is PH Gigas, which requires a Pokemon resistant to Facade and the ability to not care about sleep. Fur Coat only provides a x2 defense boost, it's not OP, it never will be and it will not balance out Pure/Huge Power's with boosting moves.
I remember. I think they are beatable.
Psystrike was used because it lost protean after mega evolving in those days, and it still wanted STAB.
While I would be very interested in seeing a meta without sleep, I dislike temporary bans because a meta that I used to play, 1v1, once "temporarily" banned focus sash. It was never unbanned because the metagame leader found that 1v1 was more in line with his own idea of how the meta should be without that good old item that evened the playing field for so many needy Pokemon in need of good set. I no longer play 1v1 because of the focus sash ban. I am fine with the meta as it is, with sleep, but I would be open to a suspect of sleep in the future. A suspect would work well, or at least a one month ban with the intent to change it back. But we should save this sort of thing for a few months into the meta, at least.
I can see the reasoning behind the focus sash ban, and I don't think it was a ban done for completely selfish reasons, but I still hate that it happened. I don't want to turn a temporary sleep ban into something like that.
Im not entirely sure, but it sounds like he didnt like that the creator of 1v1 made a unilateral decision to keep the ban, and he feels like something of that nature could happen in BH if you decide to test a sleep or sleep move clause.
I only suggested it because Spore vs. Dark Void and general sleep discussion quickly filled up 2-4 pages a couple weeks ago, and I dont think it came to a conclusion. The decision is obviously up to you.
Well. Here comes the "Wait a minute, why is one king deciding our fates?!" In order to prevent the BH Revolutionary War, I have something to say: verbatim is our king, and he can essentially do whatever he wants to do. However, 'with great power comes great responsibility', and verbatim should take all of the BH community's thoughts into consideration. For example: if we are going to decide on banning sleep, verbatim should take a poll or at least ask around in addition to playing the sleep meta itself. Once he has the communal opinion, he is absolutely free to do whatever he wants, though the right thing to do would be to help the metagame and/or let the community have at least some say in what's going on. In return, the community cannot simply boss him around and essentially strip him of the power he has earned. We must respect verbatim's decisions, whatever they may be.
Benevolent king, respectful subjects.
No.
We already had a revolution, didn't we? And he is not our king. No one is our king. Power to the people! That said, if we had to have a king, verbatim would do well.
Yes. We should decide all matters of policy as a community.
Never! Wise decisions by the people!
He is the metagame founder, not some monarch/aristocrat. This is a very odd post coming from you, who I know to be a libertarian or something like it IRL.
In any case, we should decide things as a community, or on a council. Verbatim would probably be a part of the BH councils but I don't know if him being our overlord is for the best.
What do you all think of topsy turvy? Since I learned that substitute blocks it, I am more in favor of not banning it. All the same, I will probably still use it on many of my pranksters, as the fourth slot in the sub/whirlwind/baton pass set. Maybe still spore or parting shot, but idk.
I see no reason to ban topsy-turvy. We didn't ban Heart Swap last generation, or Unaware Pokemon. Also, same with Parting Shot. I understand these things are powerful, but just because they're new doesn't make them overpowered. And as for Spore, that was even nerfed this gen.
Until Verbatim does something that directly contradicts or ignores a consensus that the community has come to, or makes a unilateral decision without accepting any feedback from the community (and I dont think that there is any reason to believe that he would do either of those things), theres really no need or reason to question him.
"Without a leader we'd we would all just be wondering sheep with no direction"
My forum-wide policy with regard to OMs (with a couple exceptions) is that all tiering decisions ultimately fall to the OP. The only times tiering power will fall into the hands of any other user (barring a change in the OP) is in the case of a poorly made decision - i.e. one made with very little testing or discussion. Basically, what Xerneas said.
With regards to Topsy-Turvy: I've personally never thought it would be deserving of a ban (unless you're addicted to setup sweepers), and the fact that it's reflected by Magic Bounce / Coat and blocked by Substitute makes the entire concept of a Topsy-Turvy ban seem absolutely ridiculous. It's even arguably outclassed by Heart Swap in some cases - Heart Swap bypasses Sub/Bounce and gives you the boosts from your opponent, but cripples the opponent less than Topsy-Turvy and allows the opponent to recover more easily.
With regards to Topsy-Turvy: I've personally never thought it would be deserving of a ban (unless you're addicted to setup sweepers), and the fact that it's reflected by Magic Bounce / Coat and blocked by Substitute makes the entire concept of a Topsy-Turvy ban seem absolutely ridiculous. It's even arguably outclassed by Heart Swap in some cases - Heart Swap bypasses Sub/Bounce and gives you the boosts from your opponent, but cripples the opponent less than Topsy-Turvy and allows the opponent to recover more easily.
Totally agree with Arcticblast. Same with Parting Shot; other moves (VoltTurn) allow you to switch out as well, and they outclass it in many circumstances, so why would we ban it?
Thank you Arcticblast. What I meant when I said 'ultimate power' was not that we should or should not concede to it, but that he literally does have ultimate power whether you like it or not. I was simply suggesting how he should use it (great job so far verbatim!) and how we should respect it. I'm not voting him our king, I'm just saying he already is.
Anyways, I think XY did a pretty fair job at keeping the meta balanced. When you think about it, there is not very much broken stuff that we need to fix (from generation vi, that is). Topsy turvy is an equal alternative to heart swap imo. Sharply lower their stats, or lower their stats and raise yours, with which you can do whatever you please. Spore has been around for a long while, and has recently been nerfed with an immunity. Dark void is the alternative, but it has only 80 accuracy.
Were those two all that deadly in the last generation? From what I saw, they were rather underwhelming.
As I said in my last post, I am against banning topsy ATM, when it went through everything it was too good at killing set up sweepers, but now it seems less annoying.
That's me.
I at least I think they should be balanced with regard to everything else.