Ladder Balanced Hackmons

so considering all the pixialite and refridge's running around, has anyone yet considered running a ghost type with mummy?

I'm thinking like Aegislash shield or dustclops cause giratina is weak to ice and pixies.
It could also cause nuinsance to contratory users and physical parental bonds.
 
Yes Parental Bond is just too good. It breaks substitutes and can be used with virtually any move for massive power. Only mega-kangaskhan should be allowed it. Also, is there any way to get rid of boosts from pokemon behind a sub?
To add to what Arctic said, Heart Swap and Haze also bypass Magic Bounce, so those are likely the best ways of removing boosts in general. Unaware will ignore those boosts outright, so that could be an option.

Also, iirc the ability bans last gen worked so that anything that didn't naturally get that ability couldn't use it, but things that did could, (so Wonder Guard could be used on Shedinja, but nothing else). If I'm not mistaken and that is how things worked, how would that rule apply to Mega Gengar/Mawile/Medicham, who all have one of those abilities naturally? Could they use those abilities without having to mega evolve?
so considering all the pixialite and refridge's running around, has anyone yet considered running a ghost type with mummy?
I'm thinking like Aegislash shield or dustclops cause giratina is weak to ice and pixies.
It could also cause nuisance to contrary users and physical parental bonds.
This is brilliant. I was considering Heatran, but I like this is way better, because of how it can force switches against things with the wrong coverage. Eviolite Dusclops or Jellicent might be the best options, because Ground is a great move for neutral coverage with Ice and Fairy, and Aegislash is weak to that, and V-Create/Overheat on Contrary users. I also noticed a few PB Xtwo running HJK, so Ghost types in general are a good switch in there.

King's Sheild also helps against those things, I even started running King's Shield on a Shell Smash Dialga, (that I was using to lure Imposters), because Refrigerate/Pixelate users would use Fakeout and/or ESpeed to try and revenge kill me.
 
Last edited:
Ho-oh on it's own handles Pixelate fairies rather well and can check Refrige Kyu too. Not to mention it resists common Fighting coverage and is immune to common Ground coverage. And it threatens both with a strong Flare Blitz or V-Create.
 
Heart Swap, Haze and Roar/Whirlwind all bypass Substitute.
Okay I was thinking of taking Topsey Turvey off Xerneas and replacing it with Heart Swap. What do you recommend?

To add to what Arctic said, Heart Swap and Haze also bypass Magic Bounce, so those are likely the best ways of removing boosts in general. Unaware will ignore those boosts outright, so that could be an option.

This is brilliant. I was considering Heatran, but I like this is way better, because of how it can force switches against things with the wrong coverage. Eviolite Dusclops or Jellicent might be the best options, because Ground is a great move for neutral coverage with Ice and Fairy, and Aegislash is weak to that, and V-Create/Overheat on Contrary users. I also noticed a few PB Xtwo running HJK, so Ghost types in general are a good switch in there.
I might replace Xerneas with a Yveltal (Stored Power), with Unaware so I'm not taken down straight away and Heart Swap? Or should I stick with Prankster Topsey-Turvey/Heart Swap?

And I think that was me with my HJK PBond MewtwoX but I replaced it with Close Combat for exactly the reasons you described.
 
so considering all the pixialite and refridge's running around, has anyone yet considered running a ghost type with mummy?

I'm thinking like Aegislash shield or dustclops cause giratina is weak to ice and pixies.
It could also cause nuinsance to contratory users and physical parental bonds.
I considered this. I was thinking that it could work nicely on Gengar. However, I became skeptical of it because it was still pretty frail (maybe add a recovery move?). As for the bulky ghosts, I could see this becoming a very good strategy, although the ghosts would need something to do besides just walling fake out/extremespeed/boomburst/whatever.
 
Also, iirc the ability bans last gen worked so that anything that didn't naturally get that ability couldn't use it, but things that did could, (so Wonder Guard could be used on Shedinja, but nothing else). If I'm not mistaken and that is how things worked, how would that rule apply to Mega Gengar/Mawile/Medicham, who all have one of those abilities naturally? Could they use those abilities without having to mega evolve?
I believe that the bans were blanket bans which applied to the original holders of the ability as well, so wonder guard shed or shadow tag wobb were not allowed.

Also another common way of negating boosts of pokes behind a sub is to switch in imposter chans and skill swap imposter onto the opponent. Assuming chans can survive the initial boosted hit doing this transforms the opponent into your chans and kills any momentum they have.
 
Meanwhile, while we're arguing over PB, I figured out a bit of an anti-Imposter gimmick. I'm still looking for a good user, but the gimmick itself works.

It's simply this: Quick Feet with a Flame or Toxic Orb.
Move Pool: Imprison/Whatever/Whatever/Whatever.

It doesn't matter how many boosts you have, what item the Imposter is holding (except perhaps Scarf), how many Imposters the opponent has, or how many times they switch them in and out, they'll become nothing more than dead-weight speed bumps as soon as your orb triggers and you use Imprison. The worst they can do is Struggle and that's, well, Struggle.

"But what if they Imprison first?"

Hence Quick Feet. You'll never have a speed tie unless they've been statused or they're holding a Scarf. Because of the former, I don't recommend this set on a team that inflicts poison, burn, or paralysis on the opponent.


Also, I'm pondering some ideas about Absol and it's Magic Bouncing mega evolution. I'm only at the very early theory-monning stage right now (literally came to mind about half a hour ago), so I've not tried anything yet. But there seems some interesting possibilities there.
 

Kit Kasai

Love colored magic
An interesting idea for anti imposter, but aren't there better methods? like ghost types and magnet pull steel types?
 
Meanwhile, while we're arguing over PB, I figured out a bit of an anti-Imposter gimmick. I'm still looking for a good user, but the gimmick itself works.

It's simply this: Quick Feet with a Flame or Toxic Orb.
Move Pool: Imprison/Whatever/Whatever/Whatever.

It doesn't matter how many boosts you have, what item the Imposter is holding (except perhaps Scarf), how many Imposters the opponent has, or how many times they switch them in and out, they'll become nothing more than dead-weight speed bumps as soon as your orb triggers and you use Imprison. The worst they can do is Struggle and that's, well, Struggle.

"But what if they Imprison first?"

Hence Quick Feet. You'll never have a speed tie unless they've been statused or they're holding a Scarf. Because of the former, I don't recommend this set on a team that inflicts poison, burn, or paralysis on the opponent.


Also, I'm pondering some ideas about Absol and it's Magic Bouncing mega evolution. I'm only at the very early theory-monning stage right now (literally came to mind about half a hour ago), so I've not tried anything yet. But there seems some interesting possibilities there.
Imprison is probably enough, seeing as you and the Chansey would have to be on the field at the same time for the quick feet boost to be useful. It's easy enough to imprison and then proceed with whatever shenanigans you have planned (Contrary, for example).

Also you won't be poisoned/burned which should help a lot.
 
By the way, about the imprison thing, the Quick Feet thing should definitely have recovery, because while Struggle doesn't do very much damage, it does more than you might think, and wears your health down pretty quickly if you're not careful. I know from personal experience.
 
The idea behind Quick Feet was that you didn't have to waste a turn setting it up against non-Imposters. Thus, you don't tip them off. Or if you both happen to come in simultaneously. Plus the speed boost doesn't hurt, though that's not the point.

And yes, definitely needs recovery if using Quick Feet.
 
I would be very surprised if orb strategies that damage the user are ever viable in BH, especially boosting speed instead of attack.
 
It'd be a niche strategy, most likely, but with how narrow the speed tiers are, a +50% boost to speed would let you outrun most of the unboosted opposition. Quick Feet let's you do it without being locked into a move or running the risk of getting the boost reversed, removed, or stolen by a Prankster (like Speed Boost), or copied by an Imposter. And it also happens to block sleep after the orb triggers and negates the worst aspect of paralysis should you happen to switch into Nuzzle before the orb triggers. If you want to set-up, it lets you use Tail Glow and Swords Dance while still maintaining a speed advantage (and with the right coverage and possibly EV investment, some users can ensure OHKOs on any non-Scarfed Imposters 100% of the time).

Off-hand, I'd say good users would either be glass-cannons who are too frail to survive a hit from anything dangerous and therefore don't care about bulk (Weaville and Meloetta-P, for example) or are so bulky that the residual damage wouldn't bother them much, like Giratina or Lugia.
 
Don't forget that after the Orb activates the boost is in effect even after you switch- meaning that you can switch in to tank a light hit or revenge kill faster opponents without the need for setup. If you're running common moves like Secret Sword, Extremespeed or similar, your Imprison might even stop things that aren't Impostering you.

On the other hand, you're not going to OHKO an Imposter Eviolite Chansey if the Pokemon you're using is even slightly bulky, which most of the good BH Pokemon are. Unless you have prior setup, and if you're running a boosting move, a recovery move and Imprison you have a single moveslot for offense.

I think I'll just stick with a Ghost type with Setup/Ghost Judgment/Secret Sword /Other for anti-imposter.
 

Monte Cristo

Banned deucer.
Don't forget that after the Orb activates the boost is in effect even after you switch- meaning that you can switch in to tank a light hit or revenge kill faster opponents without the need for setup. If you're running common moves like Secret Sword, Extremespeed or similar, your Imprison might even stop things that aren't Impostering you.

On the other hand, you're not going to OHKO an Imposter Eviolite Chansey if the Pokemon you're using is even slightly bulky, which most of the good BH Pokemon are. Unless you have prior setup, and if you're running a boosting move, a recovery move and Imprison you have a single moveslot for offense.

I think I'll just stick with a Ghost type with Setup/Ghost Judgment/Secret Sword /Other for anti-imposter.
Return of PH gigas anybody?
 
on the topic of anti imposters, this might be good
Rayquaza@Flying Gem
Trait: Unburden
Evs: Max all
Adamant Nature
-Swords Dance
-Acrobatics
-Dragon Claw
-Earthquake/Close Combat
 
Unless you have prior setup, and if you're running a boosting move, a recovery move and Imprison you have a single moveslot for offense.
Shaymin-S with Giga Drain/Oblivion Wing/Tail Glow/Imprison. Grass/Flying is only resisted notably by Steel types and Zekrom and both moves provide both recovery and offensive presence. Though if this set is capable of OHKOing Evolite Imposter Chansey with Oblivion Wing, then Imprison can simply be replaced with Earth Power, Aura Sphere, Blue Flare, or Secret Sword. Could also run Ice Beam specifically for KOing Imposters. Or Psycho Shift to KO Sheddy and to annoy Kyu-B switch-ins.

Mind, this is just theory-monning a set atm. Though I think I'll give it a shot tonight after work since I have a few other things I want to experiment with.

Edit: Some quick calcs. Modified Chansey's stats and types to match Shaymin's.

+3 252 SpA Shaymin-S Oblivion Wing vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 390-462 (55.3 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+3 252 SpA Shaymin-S Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 588-692 (83.5 - 98.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+3 252 SpA Shaymin-S Oblivion Wing vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 524-618 (74.4 - 87.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+3 252+ SpA Shaymin-S Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 160 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 708-836 (100.5 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+3 252 SpA Shaymin-S Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 80 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 708-836 (100.5 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO


So Ice Beam can work over Imprison with some EV modifications. Oblivion Wing won't work unless Chansey isn't running an Eviolite. So maybe a set of Oblivion Wing/Ice Beam/Tail Glow/Filler. Hmm, we'll see tonight if practice looks as good as paper.
 
Last edited:
I have found this set quite good, as it only requires one turn of set up.

Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Razor Claw
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Hasty Nature
- Focus Energy
- Superpower
- Psycho Boost
- Sacred Fire

You could use this on any other fast and strong pokemon, but for personal choice, I went with Mega Mewtwo X. Having Slightly Stronger Sword Dance/Nasty plot with with exchange of Ability and Item, and your moves ignoring your negative stats and your opponents boost, while avoiding Topsy-turvy, Heart Swap and Parting Shot is quite good trade IMO. It can be considered as a Gimmick, as it has no way of protecting from status, outside of making a moveslot for Heal Bell / Magic Coat. It can't also heal itself, unless you use something like Milk Drink or Draining Punch. It also isn't stopped by Unaware users, but is hard countered with bulky pokemons that for some reason have Battle Armor (or Shell Armor). I'm also pretty sure that Focus Energy isn't "copied" with Imposter, and they would have high chance of getting lowered stats, as you can use moves like Psycho Boost without lowering the damage done with crits.

If some of you don't know me well, I used to be on top of BH ladder very long time ago, meaning in gen V when Huge and Pure Power were allowed. I haven't played BH much after it though, so I'm not that good anymore. I used to have team of Prankster Shucke, Magic Bounce Steelix, Huge Power Regigigas, Imposter Blissey, and two other pokemons I don't remember atm.
 
Well I tested several things yesterday and in hopes of encouraging others to use things other than Refrige Kyu-B, Contrary* Xtwo, and PB whatever, lemme share what I learned.

*Is it just me or is Contrary on the rise again?

Incidental Stuff

Gyroball on Aegishield: Hits decently hard on some targets, but generally underwhelming.

Gyroball on Scizor-Mega: While nowhere near Escalvalier's, Scizor does hit reasonably hard against non-resistant foes. The attack boost really makes up for his speed boost compared to Aegis. Still though, Gear Grind would probably be better the majority of the time, though there's something to be said for OHKO Mega Gard after it Simple Power Herbed Geomancied on me.

Unaware Scizor-Mega and Escalvaier: Surprisingly decent so long as fire attacks aren't flying around. Really again, this and the other two above were just collateral testing from trying to have at least some synergy on my testing team and weren't really the focus.

Actual Focus

Charizard-Y: Like I suspected, it really is pretty much a special Ho-Oh. Water, Rock, and Electric attacks are rather uncommon presently, so it has good staying power and can hit a lot of things hard with its STABs. See below for more details.

Classic Skill Link Kyu-B: Because everyone is preparing for Extreme-killer Refrige Kyu-B, nobody is really ready to take on this Gen V classic except Pixel Xern. In fact, with a LO and running only Icicle Spear and Bone Rush, this Kyu-B tends to lure in and utterly shred stuff that would counter the newer variant, such as Aegislash, while threatening better checks like Skarmory. This Kyu-B likes the current metagame and can just run the same, classic sets and just drill through the opposition, so pretty much anything else I can say on it you guys already know.

Megavolving Absol: It's a little tricky to get in and get going, but again, my testing team had bad synergy since I was testing so many things at once. But the idea of Simple to set-up and then megavolving into Bounce to deflect Topsy and Whirlwind works quite well, especially since most users of those moves, as well as Unaware, tend to be Ghost or Psychic. See below for details.

Quick Feet Skymin: Like Absol above for the same reasons in being tricky to test, but once I got it in Skymin was a fast and ferocious killer. Nothing unboosted can outpace it, it's rate of recovery is startlingly high despite the constant ticks of burning, and it's typing gives it good opportunities to switch in so long as Kyu-B is dealt with. See below for details.



Charizard-Y: I was running a set of Blue Flare/Aeroblast/Quiver Dance/Roost with the ability Magic Guard and a Toxic Orb. Rock types are effectively absent as far as I can see and, beyond those, only Zekrom, Aerodactyl, and Megampharos are the only things worth noting that resist his STABs (Flash Fire aside). As such, Charizard-Y can simply add Ice Beam to his arsenal and have neutral coverage on all relevant non-Flashfire threats. Sure, Lanturn will still resist all three, but... Lanturn probably won't resist much for long anyway.

Charizard-Y sits at base 100 speed, hence I prefer Quiver for the speed boosts since there's a few, significant threats that are faster, namely Mega Aerodactyl. Of course, Tail Glow and a Timid nature are also viable if you'd rather have more power. If Charizard-Y wants coverage, the best option without sacrificing much power is to probably swap Aeroblast for Oblivion Wing and drop Roost. You lose the ability to heal in the face of certain coverage moves, but boosted Oblivion Wing is quite handy for HP recovery.

Life Orb is another option for more power, as is expected on a Magic Guard set. But being safe from the still prevalent sleep is not easy to give up.

And because of his typing, Charizard-Y can take on common threats like Pixel Xern, Refrige-Kyu-B, and Mewtwo X. It's worth pointing out that Charizard's Aeroblast at +1 will deal 80% damage to a +2 Sp D Xtwo, just to give you an idea of how hard he hits.


Absol: The hard part about Absol is that it's a bit on the frail side and it's not particularly fast until it evolves. It can take neutral, unboosted hits from most attackers as well as resisted hits, but it better be able to megavolve and dish out a ton of damage back in order to make staying in against such threats worthwhile.

As said above, I was running Simple in base form. I tried both Shell Smash and Shift Gear and found the latter to be somewhat superior while under Simple.

Absol suffers from four-move slot syndrome pretty badly though. It wants set-up, Crunch, Pursuit, Sucker Punch, coverage, and recovery. Crunch for general use, Pursuit since it can force a lot of switches (especially if it sets up in something like Giratina's face), Sucker Punch for smacking those Quiver Dancing and Contrary Psycho Boosting Y-twos, and coverage so it can hit Xern and Tyranitar (Iron Tail/Head works great here), ideally on the switch for the former. Wish-passing can alleviate this problem a bit and, fortunately, Absol and Cress cover each other pretty well since the only common Bug-move of note is U-Turn.

But once you're set-up and megavolved, Absol can tear things apart. Because of it's fraility and susceptibility to certain priority users, it makes for a better late-game sweeper once certain threats are weakened or removed. Especially since it can only Simple Boost > Megavolve only once, so you're going to want it to count.

Also, as said, many "lolboosters" are either Ghost or Psychic. Absol can bounce Topsy by megavolving in their face and KO them on the same turn, which often prevents them from following-up with Parting Shot. Haze and Heart Swap bypass this and Unaware can cause problems, so you'll want those users to be weakened or removed.


Skymin: Getting it in was tough with the way my team was set-up. But, once it was in and the threats were removed, Skymin's a beast. After a Quick Feet boost, it outspeeds the entire unboosted metagame, Deo-S included, with a Modest nature. Hence, it only needs to worry about priority attacks or hits from things it can't OHKO.

After a Tail Glow boost, Skymin's STAB Oblivion Wing hits much harder than I expected and recovers huge swaths of HP. Even after reducing my Sp. D EVs so I could OHKO Imposter switch-ins with Ice Beam, Skymin still had just enough bulk to take unboosted hits and then heal off the damage with Oblivion Wing. It doesn't matter much if it can be 2HKOed or 3HKOed a by a lot of things if it keeps popping it's HP back to full. Especially if it's simultaneously threatening a 2HKO back.

The set I settled on was Oblivion Wing/Ice Beam/Tail Glow/Leech Seed. Because Water, Rock, and Ground types are rather uncommon, Giga Drain saw almost no use. Should they make a return, it wouldn't be a bad idea. Leech Seed came to mind after I facepalmed when I mispredicted and Psycho Shifted a burn to an Imposter switch-in (luckily I won the ensuing speed tie). Most victims will be giving Skymin enough HP to overcome the burn damage, or more, and it also lets it stop the recover of PHers and KO any variant of Sheddy. Oh, and if Leech Seed is bounce, what does Shaymin care? It's a Grass-type, those seeds aren't working!

Steel-types are problematic for this set, so Blue Flare, Aura Sphere, Earth Power, or Secret Sword can all help there. Kyu-B, while it doesn't like switching into a boosted attack, provides a very obvious threat to Skymin. Luckily, because Kyu-B is more predictable than a guy who's telling you what he's about to do, it's actually rather unlikely to KO Skymin so long as there's a safe-switch in (Heatran, Aegislash, Skarm, Cress, Scizor, etc.) Honestly, Skymin went down to unexpected stuff more often than anything else, like a Stored Power Prankster Deo-D (wait wut?).

But, like Absol, this would probably make a better late-game sweeper after you've removed key threats and the remaining opposition is unable to muster enough offense to take down Skymin.
 
Rumors: Building off of your Absol idea, what about mega evolving Mawile? It is far bulkier after mega evolving, has better defensive typing, and has Huge Power, making it hit substantially harder. How much harder, you may ask?
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 187-221 (55.9 - 66.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252+ Atk Mega Absol Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 181-214 (54.1 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

That's right, Mawile's unstabed Crunch hits harder than Absol's STAB Crunch.

+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Regirock: 354-418 (97.2 - 114.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO. guaranteed after SR

+2 252+ Atk Mega Absol Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Regirock: 230-272 (63.1 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

You lose Magic Bounce, but that still doesn't protect the user from Heart Swap or Haze, which I've seen more on the ladder recently, and it also means that Absol can be forced out by Parting Shot. For these reasons, I'd prefer Mawile.

Here are the sets I'm wanting to use now:
Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Simple -> Huge Power
Adamant Nature
- Shift Gear
- Play Rough
- Crunch
- Extreme Speed/Bullet Punch/Earthquake
Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Speed Boost ->Huge Power
Jolly Nature
- Protect
- Belly Drum
- Play Rough
- Crunch/Earthquake/Bullet Punch
 
Mawile could work too, though it's very slow so even with Priority, sans Xtreme Speed, most Pranksters could delete your boosts or Spore you. You'd also really need a way to get rid of Imposters on your team because you do not want one to copy a Huge Power set.

Really though, on paper at least, it's kind of a choice between a more offensive (HP) megalution versus a more defensive (MB).

But hey, give it a shot and let us know how it works in practice. I'd try it for myself, but I doubt I'll be able to play today.
 
So, with everyone running Icecube, I thought it would be nice to have a counter to it. Looking over bubapedia's list of abilities, I found one that might work: Shield dust. Shield dust renders a pokemon immune to all secondary effects of attacks, including ones with 100%. This allows a pokemon with shield dust to avoid fake out flinches and sacred fire burns among other things. This specifically helps about against ice cube, as it allows you to encore them as they fake out, and set up on them, with it's main weakness being magic bounce.
 
Kyu-B is so predictable right now that it's easy to check or counter. Heck, physically defensive Giratina can take a Fake Out + E Speed and live to retaliate with a burn or something else to annoy Kyu-B. Or you can give Gira Fur Coat and it'll just sit there wondering what Kyu-B was hoping to even accomplish.

Shield Dust is interesting though. While it won't provide an advantage as long as Kyu-B is spamming Xtreme Speed, Steadfast (I think that's the right one), boosts your speed off of a flinch.

Off the top of my head, depending on Kyu-B's coverage and the defender's abilities, Cress, Gigas, Heatran, Aegis, Gira, Lugia, Registeel, Arceus, Mega Aggron, Mega Scizor, Escalvalier, Slaking, Palk, Dialga, opposing Kyu-B, Reshi, Lapras, Kyogre, and, of course, Sheddy can all stomach attacks from Refrige Kyu-B. And most or all of them can also handle Pixel Xern too.
 
Yeah, but shield dust is nice because it not only completely shuts down ice cube, but also makes the mon immune to sacred fire burns, and other things.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 2)

Top