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Ladder Balanced Hackmons

Uselesscrab said:
They can. When I use my Venusaurite Mega Venusaur, I get prompted to mega evolve.
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I'm assuming she means in-game, not on showdown. Keep in mind showdown is based on this research.

We actually don't know this for sure. Considering our only example was of a mega with multiple formes, maybe this was only prompted due to it being an alternate version.
 
Well the first and most obvious thing is that significantly supbar 'mons can now skip that stage, meaning that things like Mawile and Kangaskhan have a much greater advantage than previously. Gyarados can also fake a different ability like Skill Link before mega-ing to rip apart something like Unaware.

The Megazards (And indeed the megatwos) have a cool niche in switching the obvious offensive stat. Switching from Zard Y to Zard X looses the immediate nuke power in exchange for a different type and ability. Unfortunately, MM2X/Y have really bad abilities. I guess you could do something like faking being terrible with a special mm2x and luring out Pranksters or Imposters and mega-evolving to nuke them (Not sure how gaining Insomnia works, is it an instant wake-up or an end-of-turn one?) Like maybe a bad Protean set that conveniently ends up being weak to one or all of the moves (And with the speed boost you outrun them).

Or maybe Zard X runnning a Contrary set with Overheat and V-Create, then mevolving to Zard Y and sweeping with Blue Flare or something, iunno. Need sleep.
 
Assuming megas can evolve into themselves, I'm really hype to be able to not use Houndoom's regular forme for Sun. Not that sun is really viable this gen, but i can dream can't i?

MegaCham and Mawile seem to get ridiculous buffs with this discovery imo. Speed Boost --> Huge/Pure power is gonna be infinitely easier to pull off
 
With this being a thing, can I again suggest the banning of Gengarite, Medichamite, Kangaskhanite, and Mawilite? Shadow Tag, Huge/Pure Power, and Parental Bond are banned for a reason and letting those mons have access to them via a loophole makes little sense, especially since we don't let Azumarill have Huge Power, Shedinja have Wonder Guard, Wobbuffet have Shadow Tag, etc. I have no problem with the new mechanic itself, just it making it even more viable for Pokemon to use banned abilities.


Peef Rimgar said:
I mean, for our purposes, it really doesn't matter, since anything can have any ability anyways.
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I'm more interested in the stats, to be honest (and typing where relevant). Zard Y not having Drought if hacked directly suggests it may only have regular Zard stats until Mega-evolution. But since HP remains consist across mega-evolution for all Pokemon, there's no way to confirm whether that Zard had regular or mega stats before switching from Y to X. (And for the record, I'm not proposing any changes to the mechanics right now in regards to this.)
 
verbatim said:
I'd rather wait and see. As other metas have found, having to give up an item slot is BIG. I have no issue if this does turn out to be something that needs to be dealt with, but I don't like jumping the gun.
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Honestly, the only Mega considered worse than its base form is Garchomp to my knowledge, and that's only due to the loss of 10 base Speed. The Mega stone is basically a super item.
 
I have a question, if mega evolved, can they re-mega evolve? Can a MVenusaur mega evolve into an MVenusaur and be re-prompted to become a MVenusaur? Not that there is much purpose, but ya know.
 
Unfixable said:
I have a question, if mega evolved, can they re-mega evolve? Can a MVenusaur mega evolve into an MVenusaur and be re-prompted to become a MVenusaur? Not that there is much purpose, but ya know.
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No, the box for mega evolving is deactivated if the condition of mega evolving has already occured
 
Rumors said:
I'm more interested in the stats, to be honest (and typing where relevant). Zard Y not having Drought if hacked directly suggests it may only have regular Zard stats until Mega-evolution. But since HP remains consist across mega-evolution for all Pokemon, there's no way to confirm whether that Zard had regular or mega stats before switching from Y to X. (And for the record, I'm not proposing any changes to the mechanics right now in regards to this.)
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Was it ever possible to get a regular Giratina that looked like Gira-O, or vice virsa? If not, then I don't think there is any precedent for "Cosmetic" alternate forms other than Arceus, who's stats and type don't change.
 
None of the mega evos are really op. Medicham is basically a frailer, slower mm2x with more attack and no ability. Kangaskhan is slow and not very bulky, and has a bad typing. Mega gengar is scary, but dies to offense. Also, any well built stall team can avoid dying to it with appropriate use of magic bounce, prankster, and pivoting moves.

However, I still think they should be banned, just for consistency reasons. A lot of people I battled were confused as to why I could use shadow tag on gengar and not on other Pokemon.

As rumors said above, we don't allow Pokemon who naturally have banned abilities to use them. Why should mega stones be different?
 
Kit Kasai said:
None of the mega evos are really op. Medicham is basically a frailer, slower mm2x with more attack and no ability. Kangaskhan is slow and not very bulky, and has a bad typing. Mega gengar is scary, but dies to offense. Also, any well built stall team can avoid dying to it with appropriate use of magic bounce, prankster, and pivoting moves.

However, I still think they should be banned, just for consistency reasons. A lot of people I battled were confused as to why I could use shadow tag on gengar and not on other Pokemon.

As rumors said above, we don't allow Pokemon who naturally have banned abilities to use them. Why should mega stones be different?
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How about we don't ban things that aren't broken?

Mega Evolved Gengar is actually less broken than Shadow Tag Wobb/etc, because it could Trick+Scarf something into SR, or another move that would let it set up boosts to pass to a team mate. M-Gengar can't use Trick. That is one reason that Shadow Tag is banned that doesn't actually effect Gengar.
 
PokemonMasterDebater said:
How about we don't ban things that aren't broken?
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This isn't about brokeness. This is about the already established rules having consistency and no loopholes. I mean, sure, Medicham isn't the strongest mon out there. But there's no reason it should be allowed to have an ability that is explicitly banned. Especially considering that all other Pokemon who have those abilities naturally cannot use them.

Also, of the lot, Gengar can be quite broken. Normalize + Skill Swap the counter they switch in and then megavolve to trap the back-up or your counter if they don't switch out. And heck, that's just scratching the surface of things you can do prior to setting up Shadow Tag. You could trivially bluff a Mold Breaker or Electrify set to lure in specific mons and then trap them and render them helpless. Or a number of other things that are beyond the top of my head.

And unlike previously with mega-volving mechanics, it's not immediately obvious whether you're facing anti-Imposter Gengar or Shadow Tag Gengar since you no longer need regular Gengar for the latter. Not to mention the high frequency of Gengar being Imposter immune will prevent you from wanting to switch in your Imposter since that's the worst possible move you could make against anti-Imposter Gengar (unless you have a Spooky Plate yourself). It'd also prevent a Ghost switch-in, like Giratina or Aegislash, since Gengar usually destroys both of them.
 
Rumors said:
This isn't about brokeness. This is about the already established rules having consistency and no loopholes. I mean, sure, Medicham isn't the strongest mon out there. But there's no reason it should be allowed to have an ability that is explicitly banned. Especially considering that all other Pokemon who have those abilities naturally cannot use them.

Also, of the lot, Gengar can be quite broken. Normalize + Skill Swap the counter they switch in and then megavolve to trap the back-up or your counter if they don't switch out. And heck, that's just scratching the surface of things you can do prior to setting up Shadow Tag. You could trivially bluff a Mold Breaker or Electrify set to lure in specific mons and then trap them and render them helpless. Or a number of other things that are beyond the top of my head.

And unlike previously with mega-volving mechanics, it's not immediately obvious whether you're facing anti-Imposter Gengar or Shadow Tag Gengar since you no longer need regular Gengar for the latter. Not to mention the high frequency of Gengar being Imposter immune will prevent you from wanting to switch in your Imposter since that's the worst possible move you could make against anti-Imposter Gengar (unless you have a Spooky Plate yourself). It'd also prevent a Ghost switch-in, like Giratina or Aegislash, since Gengar usually destroys both of them.
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I get why you and others want those stones banned, I just disagree with it. If something that uses a normally banned ability isn't broken, and doesn't require a complex ban to be usable, then I think it should be allowed.

I hadn't realized the new potential of Gengarite M-Gar being able to lure in counters like that, thanks to the new change to Mega Evolution. Still, it's giving up a third of it's power on it's main STAB, and losing the ability to wall Impostors, to try and trap something which may or may not have Parting Shot/Volt Switch/etc, or is just strong enough to kill Gengar outright. And, if I may indulge in a brief moment of speculation, it's possible that Mega Sableye will actually be able to switch into either variant without much fear after ORAS is released. I admit I was underestimating it originally, but it still seems simple enough to play around in my head, but we need more testing before making a verdict on if it's broken or not.
 
I have an Idea. How about some abilities can only be found on the pokemon that naturally have them. Maybe bad idea, probably not. Compromise? But, ignores megas.
 
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Pikachu Murderer said:
I have an Idea. How about some abilities can only be found on the pokemon that naturally have them. Maybe bad idea, probably not. Compromise?
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Not even close, as that simply allows m-gar to not require its mega-stone to have shadow tag, and mawile-mega to start off with more attack than mmx without its mega-stone.
 
PokemonMasterDebater Except... you can't play around Shadow Tag unless your whole team has Parting Shot or something similar. If a Shadow Tag user comes in on something without any escape options, it's trapped. It's not like Thousand Arrows/Infest/etc. where they have to make a move in order to trap, giving you time to switch every time you see the trapper. And you can't scout a potential Shadow Tag Gengar without risking getting trapped, slept, or nuked.

Like I said before, there's a reason why this ability is banned. (And Arena Trap too.)


Pikachu Murderer said:
What do you guys think of Kangaskhan mega evolving? Never seen it used before, but worked for me...
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Mega-Kang comes and goes in cycles. Even with the new mechanics, its obvious what you're trying to do when you use it because Kanga is otherwise outclassed by Gigas, Slaking, and Arceus. But on the other hand, Seismicshadefang 2HKOs almost the entire tier with no boosting at all and is one of the major (but not the only) reasons PB got banned.
 
Mega evolution inception

In my opinion, surprise sets (shadow tag mGengar, illusion etc) only really work once; as soon as your opponent knows that you play the particular surprise set, they play the next game more cautiously, and in most cases the surprise item/ability essentially becomes useless.
 
Pikachu Murderer said:
True in some cases, but many abilities are simply hard to counter.
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Abilities are never countered in any meta, only dealt with. Players don't run Trick + Pecha Berry to counter Poison Heal, they have other ways of dealing with the Pokemon in question, as is the case with surprise sets such as Illusion and Illusion mGengar. As a broad example, once a player knows that their opponent runs an Illusion mGengar, they know that the "disguise Pokemon" is potentially the mGengar, thus they may switch in whatever Pokemon they use to deal with Gengar, whether it be MMY or Cube. This is the same with Illusion sweepers, in which case a player sends in whatever Pokemon deals with the Pokemon behind the Illusion. Another example of surprise that only works once is running Prankster + D-bond on a Pokemon that might not usually run this. As soon as a player is aware of this, they no longer fall so easily to the trap as they are aware that it exists (unless they forget). When a set that relies on surprise becomes known, it really only comes down to (more or less) simple prediction, in which case a player could be running a more useful ability over the chance of the opponent mispredicting (it's like launching a surprise attack... without the surprise).
 
To touch on what Heisen said, the abilities aren't all that hard to handle some of the mons are for example no guard is kind of hard to handle on its own but no guard mm2y is a lot harder to counter. When I teambuild it just feels natural to run entrainment on one mon. Speaking of entrainment people please stop running simple beam to stop phers.
 
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