BH Balanced Hackmons

drampa's grandpa

cannonball
is a Community Contributoris a Community Leader Alumnus
having the last mon alive be a wincon is a tried and true strategy
Every mon is a win con mon!

So this isn't just a meme post I'd like to point out that Mega Ray spam is alive and well, and really appreciates Dazzling scarf ray as an improofer to atespeed + ground coverage ray. Specs boomburst still hits incredibly hard, and its nice at the beginning when they don't know which Ray they're facing.
 
what is the suspect on? it says there is one on the simulator but it hasn't been announced yet as far as i can see
Sorry for the delay guys, my internet is shot, and I've been steadily working on this on my phone for a few days.
CFZ Suspect Details:
Thanks and remember you can keep discussion going on this, or any other topic (including next suspect)
Currently, the use of z-moves in regular moveslots is being suspected.
 

bp scrub

rub a dub dub one scrub in a tub
Can somebody test how Revelation Dance and Water Bubble act together? See if Revelation Dance gets the boost or not. Some Dancer imposter-proof gimmick if you're wondering why I'm wondering.
The Imposter will copy the original pokemon's type so Revelation Dance's type is also copied over.
 

Electrolyte

Wouldn't Wanna Know
is a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Generally the new meta has shone incredibly favorably on offense. Bulky setup and hyper offense in particular got a slew of new tools and advantages whose quality have not been matched by those given to support Pokemon. I was actually surprised by this because I expected the limitations on priority abuse and the influx of new extremely bulky Pokemon to dampen the prevalence of offense, but instead both caused the use of offense to change and then amplify.


I think bulky setup in particular has become considerably stronger. From what I've seen, there are three major reasons for this change:

1. New abilities and moves

This is the most obvious and most impactful change in the meta. Everything else is either less significant or caused by these developments.

In terms of abilities, Psychic Surge and Dazzling / Queenly Majesty have had enormous impacts on team composition and match momentum. Priority moves, previously seen as the universal bane of Speed boosts, have lost a huge amount of potency and have become a significantly smaller roadblock for setup sweepers to deal with. Even the mere existence of Terrains and Dazzling / Queenly Majesty in the meta forces people to play much more cautiously with their -ate spam and checks to offensive boosters; Dazzling and Queenly Majesty in particular give no prior indication of their presence, so more care must be taken by defenders to scout sets, giving sweepers even more time to set up, attack, and solidify momentum. What's more is that priority as a strategy has historically mainly been ability-reliant, so Teravolt cannot be used as a cure, either, nor does it work against Psychic Terrain, anyway.

In terms of moves, the most significant developments come from the new cover legendary signature moves and Z-moves. Moongeist Beam, Sunsteel Strike, and Core Enforcer have many advantages - they offer strong, reliable, and relevant offensive coverage for almost any sweeper alike, and most importantly cover the two most significant defensive setup counters: Sturdy and Unaware, all without forcing an ability change (core enforcer less so; Moongeist Beam is arguably much better all-around, and those that benefit more from Core Enforcer are inherently less potent anyway [ie special Dragon sweepers].). Z-moves have already been discussed in depth and I want to write another novel dedicated to them once I get reqs, so I will not talk about them very much here; just know that they are extremely powerful, very reliable, and can be used to break past walls quite easily.


2. Type advantage shifts

New mechanics have also been favorable to some types and less so to others. The prevalence of Psychic Surge and a new immunity to Prankster has made the Dark-type incredibly useful and much more sturdy in the long run. In fact, Psychic Surge and Genesis Supernova have benefitted Dark-types in almost every way possible - by shifting an already historically special metagame even more specially, by decreasing available moveslots on most special sweepers (as most carry either Genesis or Moongeist or both so opt out of coverage to hit Dark-types), and by basically destroying the viability of almost every Fighting-type not named Pheromosa (which can be outboosted), MMY (which has severely declined in popularity), and Mega Heracross (which is still priority-reliant). Dark-types have also gained Power Trip which is like Stored Power but on steroids because it's 1. Physical (and beats defensive Chansey) 2. Neutral against Steel types (and beats Solgaleo, Registeel, Aegislash, and Celesteela) 3. Super effective against Psychic types (which every team carries). Sunsteel Strike has also been a huge blessing as Dark / Steel is incredible coverage in the Gen VII meta. Special Dark-type sweepers are also quite potent, though not as much as Physical ones because they don't have access to Power Trip.


Gen VII Dark-type sweepers should ideally have:
- Stat spread with decent bulk and speed and high natural offense
- Secondary typing that grants extra relevant resistances
- Fast setup move like QD, SS, or Geomancy
- Power Trip / Sunsteel Strike if physical, Dark Pulse / Moongeist Beam if special
- and an item / fourth slot / ability that deals with imposter Chansey and priority.


Steel types have also become more relevant in this respect. They get STAB on Sunsteel Strike so they have more slots to deal with other setup counters, they resist the most prominent offensive types on the meta, and they generally last longer. However, they also struggle with bad typing matchups against the metagame's best physical tanks - Zygarde-C and the Primal Pokemon, and thus are not as potent as their Dark-type competitors.

Finally, Normal-types like Arceus-Normal have also benefitted from Psychic Terrain's counter of Fighting-types, and enjoy an added benefit of natural immunity against Spectral Thief.

3. New threats

Finally, new / revamped Pokemon in the metagame have shifted both conditions for opportunities for setup and possible setup sweeper options. Zygarde-C, Solgaleo, and Lunala are all also very potent setup sweepers thanks to their unique typings and amazing stat distributions. Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre, now able to use other abilities and other items, also make a comeback, Primal Groudon with insanely powerful Sun-boosted Fire-type attacks and easy setup opportunities in a meta with Water prevalence, and Primal Kyogre with the great new ability Water Bubble. In the past, both feared Prankster and bulky Dragons, but neither are nearly as common in the new meta, and are easier to take down (eg Zygarde losing to Ice Beam). Granted, most of these Pokemon see more use as tanks and pivots, but can also easily be used as setup sweepers as well, as their natural bulk gives them many opportunities to switch in and boost.





Hyper Offense, by its similar nature to bulky setup, has also improved a lot and has definitely shifted in style and prominent sweepers. Successful Hyper Offense is definitely harder to pull off than bulky setup, but is just as rewarding if you predict correctly.

Anti-priority has, first and foremost, brought back glass cannons. -ate spam is not as strong as it used to be, and hazards are relatively less common thanks to the decline of Prankster and dedicated support Pokemon. Focus Sash is a very useful item now, perfect for Pheromosa, Ash-Greninja, and Deoxys-Attack, the faces of Hyper Offense in BH. On the one end, we have those incredibly fast and incredibly strong glass cannons, but on the other hand, we also have moderate to slow wallbreakers, taking advantage of Z-moves and power-boosting terrains. Water Bubble has also had a huge impact on teams in the tier; Water immune Pokemon are practically necessary for teams regardless of type. Choice Scarf Pokemon have also risen in potency; they are more effective checks to offense than priority is now, and can often clean up games quite easily (Scarf Water Bubble Water Spout, -ate Boomburst, and Psychic Terrain Psystrike are a few personal favorites).



I think, in the future, BH teams will focus a lot more on controlling momentum to ease predictions. Slow pivots (primarily U-Turn) will be incredibly useful, especially given the bulk of RegenVest Solgaleo and Zygarde-C. Races to overpower of nullify setup sweepers will become more significant determinants of match winners. There will be decreased usage and reliance on dedicated support leaders and support Pokemon like there was in Gen VI. And Spectral Thief and / or phazing will be a must on every team.



In the new BH meta, the best defense is definitely strong offense.
 
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I honestly kind of hate the way how offense just completely dominates, Electrolyte. It's just a lot of spam of pokemon like Deoxys-Attack, Mega Mewtwo Y and Mega Alakazam. Wall pokemon seem almost pointless as you can just switch to another attacker, Imposter doesn't seem as viable because of focus sash glass cannons being so common.

There's not all that many fun and interesting sets, unless you're playing low ladder where it's just fun and interesting because they haven't found the "press one of these to win" strategies yet.

IDK maybe I'm just being unaccepting to change but Hyper Offense / 1 turn set up being this good isn't fun IMO.
 
The biggest general change I'm seeing is that everything is so offensively powerful that all of it at once is impossible to counter, and defensive walls are really simply defensive pivots to get your offensive sweepers in safely. The only way to stop it is to maintain that offensive pressure yourself, which is why HO teams dominate the ladder. Offensive momentum is pretty easy to gain and keep up even against other HO teams, and it's vital as well. There really aren't bulky switchins to things anymore; either you're immune or you die in 2 hits, meaning that instead of bulky walls, we are always using bulky pivots to maintain momentum. For example, Zygarde-C almost always runs a pivot move to allow it to shrug off a single unboosted Ice Beam from MMY and other special attackers or a Steam Eruption from Water Bubble while pivoting into a counter, as opposed to simply sitting there and sponging hits, because the loss of momentum would just be too great. Another big reason for pivoting moves is the prevalence of trappers in the tier, especially now with the completely unresisted Anchor Shot, which has the added bonus of having 32 pp. Non Ghost types aren't getting out unless they have a pivot move or an exceedingly rare Shed Shell.
Another ability that really helps HO is Innards Out, especially against opposing HO. Being able to force a 1 for 1 trade in a metagame where you can only use one pokemon to counter something is really, really powerful. It's better than D Bond, since you can even switch it in to take down a sweeper who you let get out of control, and people will naturally be wary of this happening. Chansey and Zygarde-C make the best Innards Out users because of their high HP and bulk, and they can also help the team before going down by setting up hazards or spreading status.
Normal types: Normal types are a whole lot more viable now because they can boost safely without fear of Spectral Thief while running another ability such as QM, which prevents prankster Topsy Turvy and heart Swap. That leaves Prankster Haze as the only way to nullify boosts, or Prankster Destiny Bond or Innards out if you're willing to lose a mon. Really troubling are the z-geomancy + baton pass sets that can completely turn a game around if timed right; I've been on the impotent receiving end of this way too much.
 
Apparently z-moves ignore normalize. I normalized a meloetta with entrainment normalize gengar and the meloetta used genesis supernova. Genesis supernova fainted the gengar despite the ability normalize on the meloetta. I wonder if anyone has seen this before, or do z-moves break immunities.
Is the ineffective normalize a glitch?

More to the point, fast stealth rocks is often a good idea against HO due to breaking focus sashes. Deo-A spam is very common, so one way of breaking it is Deo-s (hazard lead) + Scarf P-don (thousand arrows, v-create, solar blade, IDK). The problem with prankster SR is that dazzling blocks this.
 

Sweet Jesus

Neal and Jack and me, absent lovers...


Pheromosa @ Safety Goggles/Focus Sash
Ability: Bad Dreams
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Close Combat
- Soul-Stealing 7-Star Strike/Icicle Crash
- Spore

Sash deoxys and m2y are pretty common leads or just often need to be revenge killed. This guy outspeeds them but kind of wastes a slot on pin missile just for those 2. I came up with another option harder to predict and more practical should your opponent just switch out to a fairy type or some wall. With a blazing fast non prankster spore, you can put to sleep any lead too busy running focush sash to worry about status moves even through psychic terrain. Bad Dreams will immediatly break your opponents sash and guarantee you a kill with u-turn on the next turn even if your opponent only sleeps for a single turn. Blazing fast Spore + strong stab u-turn turns out to be extremly useful against a plethora of other threats too. I prefer using safety goggles as an item to not get fooled by magic bouncers but sash is viable too. The other moves are just standard, Icicle crash being for zygarde and the standard option should CFZs be banned
 

pyu

formerly pyubae
Have you considered thousand waves? I saw that you were using it as a PH Ogre counter and with waves you can take it out instead of just force it out. Same for other PH users like Ttar and such.



Anyway, let me introduce you to my new favourite toy in BH.



Kartana @ Choice Band
Ability: Steelworker
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Power Whip
- Close Combat / V-create
- Bullet Punch

This thing's power is absolutely ridiculous, people switch their Zygod or Celesteela thinking they can take a hit... they can't. There really isn't much that Sunsteel Strike can't 2HKO in the Current meta, bar like bulky Primal Don and Max defence Poison Heal Kyogre, both of which can be taken down with Power Whip. The other 2 moves are just kinda there I never really clicked them, but they're theoretically useful.

Anyway no matter how it may sound on paper, I can assure you that so far, this set has been amazing in practice. Just the satisfaction of thinking "who dying?" everytime it enters the field is worth it.
Replays:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-480411987 Kartana killing PrimaDon and PhisDef Giratina.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-480907987 Kartana killing Zygod and Celesteela.

Kartana @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 148 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 104 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Sacred Fire / Close Combat
- Power Whip
- Belly Drum

Slightly more gimmicky but still a pretty good set, the thing is that in SuMo there's a lot less priority flying around so even on non-dazzling mons, a set up set becomes more viable. Add that to the fact that Kartana can surprisingly survive some priority, virtue of its good typing and solid defence stat, and you have a pretty decent Belly Drummer at your hands.

Sunsteel Strike is such a great move, not only is it a solid stab but it also ignores unaware, fur coat and sturdy which would otherwise stop it dead in its tracks. Sacred Fire / CC can deal with imposter Chansey, netting a clean OHKO. Power Whip the secondary stab and deals with Groudon, Kyogre and stuff, but it's also really useful to net an OHKO on Kyogre without boosting.

The EVs outspeed 252 speed EVs base 90 meaning you outspeed most relevant kyogres in the meta considering they either run 148+, 252 or 0. Max atk for obvious reasons and the rest in HP for moar balk, thought 4 EVs have been moved in defence to have an even amount of HP.

252 Atk Pixilate Mega Diancie Head Charge vs. 148 HP / 4 Def Kartana: 117-138 (39.5 - 46.6%)
252+ Atk Zap Plate Galvanize Zekrom Head Charge vs. 148 HP / 4 Def Kartana: 147-174 (49.6 - 58.7%)

You can run this with Psychic terrain support, it's probably better, idk I never tried but yeh, theoretically it should work, lol.

I had a good replay for this one but it says the replay is private or smt and I don't even know what private replays mean so I guess I won't share it, you'll just have to trust me that this set isn't trash ok?

Kartana @ Leftovers
Ability: Dazzling
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 152 HP / 252 Atk / 104 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Thousand Arrows
- Substitute
- Shift Gear

Yeah this is basically UC's set except not imposterproof, but I always had trouble dealing with imposter with UC's set anyway and substitute came in handy a bunch of times already so I thought I might share this. Same spread as above which is enough for a sub to survive thousand arrows from uninvested Zygod. The rest is pretty self explanatory, sub on a switch, use the opportunity to set up and hopefully sweep.

Here's a good replay where Kartana essentially killed the entire team, thought it does come with 70 turns of (necessary) stalling at the beginning so be warned: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-479524647

I'll also leave this calcs here hoping that someone might build a grassy terrain Kartana team.

252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Kartana Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Primal Groudon in Grassy Terrain: 550-648 (136.1 - 160.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Kartana Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 100+ Def Zygarde in Grassy Terrain: 590-696 (92.7 - 109.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock



EDIT:

Some interesting concepts here man, but I can't help but wonder why none of your defensive mons are running any kind of reliable recovery. Uninvested Zygod at +1 still does very negligeable damage against any mon that has some kind of bulk so recover or something could allow you to more easily switch into things and set up multiple times in the course of the battle.
Thought at least Zygod is insanely bulky, but I can't really picture that Venusaur lasting for a very long time if it needs to rely on leech seed as its only form of recovery.

Aerilate Pancake is insane, but I'm pretty sure it's a bug that has yet to be fixed (un)fortunately, thought it's still good for the time being.

Innards out Wailord is super annoying to face, but I do feel like you miss on some utility by running Wailord instead of other huge HP mons.
The main problem with wailord is that it's too damn obvious from team preview what it's gonna be. And unless you want to use this fact to play some mind games (which I wouldn't really recommend) Chansey does basically the same thing except it bluffs another set in team preview and has more HP, meaning you can potentially get rid of Zygod or an opposing imposter Chansey by sacking your own. Chansey without Eviolithe and minimal investment has pretty mediocre bulk anyway, Psystrike or Secret Sword from mmy easily OHKO it.
Also even thought it's a deadweight set that's just there to die, I'm pretty sure there are better movepool options. Stealth rocks for one would be an obvious choice and I've faced a few hazard stacking innards out Blissey on the ladder. Final Gambit is another option for when your opponent knows your set and is avoiding to Kill you or smt.
Another mon that could feel this role is Guzzlord which has more HP than Zygod, but also has a pretty decent offensive presence if you run it with Malicious Moonsault. Up to you thought.
How about Kartana with grassy terrain and more grass based stabs? Grassy terrain boosts grass moves while psychic terrain boost psychic moves, so with power whip it could easily be a more grass based mon instead of steel. Set would go something like this:
Kartana @ Choice Band
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Power Whip
- Sunsteel Strike
- Close Combat/V-Create
- Ice Hammer/Icicle Crash/Bullet Punch

The reason I have ice hammer and icicle crash over bullet punch is because it does work against Zygarde, which is really a necessity in this meta for a wallbreaker. In the case of icicle crash, it also is pretty spammable. Life Orb is an option because it utilizes grassy terrain, and the damage against you will be negated

Please keep in mind that this mon is just a theorymon, as I havent gotten the chance to use it yet.

Calcs:

Against Zygarde with My Set:

252+ Atk Choice Band Kartana Icicle Crash vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Zygarde: 272-324 (42.8 - 51%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Kartana Ice Hammer vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Zygarde: 320-380 (50.3 - 59.8%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Kartana Power Whip vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Zygarde: 217-256 (34.1 - 40.3%) -- 44.1% chance to 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

Against Zygarde with Your Set:

252+ Atk Choice Band Steelworker Kartana Sunsteel Strike vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Zygarde: 180-213 (28.3 - 33.5%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO

Sorry, that calc is wrong since sunsteel ignores abilities, here is the actual calc:

252+ Atk Choice Band Steelworker Kartana Sunsteel Strike vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Zygarde: 360-424 (56.6 - 66.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

(lol sorry I fucked up and forgot to include the power whip marking. All I know is it doesnt 2hko :P)

So Ice coverage is definitely a good thing to have.

What Power Whip does with grassy terrain (As a marker for the power difference):

252+ Atk Choice Band Kartana Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Groudon-Primal: 321-378 (79.4 - 93.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Without:

252+ Atk Choice Band Kartana Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Groudon-Primal: 213-252 (52.7 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Conclusion:

Honestly this is just a theorymon for me, but I don't really know what sunsteel hits with the extra damage. As I see it, I think grassy terrain has more benefits, and isn't counterintuitive enough to really pose a threat to kartana's wallbreaker ability. If there is any comments on the movepool or anything about this set, feel free to notify me.

Also, if someone has come up with this and posted it already first, then I didn't check and it is your set, but if I am the first to comment it, I'd like to claim it as my set.

Thanks!

Sorry for mistake, but still a cool set. Will try it out next time I get on showdown BH.
 
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252+ Atk Choice Band Steelworker Kartana Sunsteel Strike vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Zygarde: 180-213 (28.3 - 33.5%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO
The Rage Knight this calc is simply incorrect. It actually does 360-424 making it a guaranteed 2hko. Your damage calculation obviously doesn't take into account that Sunsteel Strike ignores abilities such as Fur Coat.
 
^, Sunsteel is also more reliable than power miss since it has less resists, while power whip fails to 2HKO Giratina or Celesteela and can potentially give a free turn to Rayquaza or Yveltal (not so much for the latter tho).
Life Orb in grassy terrain is definitely something that sounds appealing since it will also allow Kartana to switch moves if Fur Coat Zygod or Shedinja come in.

But that's probably a cool set and I'd give it a try if I ever get around to building a Grassy Terrain team.
I might try Tinted lens with Grassy terrain support first thought.
 

E4 Flint

-inactive in BH due corrupt leader-
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Phazing getting you into a coma? Don't be phased into ending your bh experience with a full stop instead of a comma.
Serves as a way to send ingrain and/or boosts to your friends that can spin/fog, as well as being a decent setup check. Helmet gets damage on those dtailers and it's immune to circle throw while also being abe to switch out if needed. Adjust ev's as needed.
Proof (bonus- good damage on mewtwo)
Aegislash @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Spectral Thief
- Ingrain
- Roost
- Baton Pass
 
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E4 Flint

-inactive in BH due corrupt leader-
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Double post but I think it's a good time to start accepting early gen sample teams. If you feel yours makes the cut provide it with some kind of measure for proof.
Congratulations to PinkDragonTamer who's team has been added after reaching high ladder and getting reqs with it.

I would prefer the teams to not have CFZ's.
 

MAMP

MAMP!
here's the hot squad i used to get reqs:


OOGH (Dialga) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 244 SpD / 16 Spe
Calm Nature
- Core Enforcer
- Volt Switch
- Rapid Spin
- Nuzzle

OOGH (Giratina) @ Leftovers
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Moongeist Beam
- Shore Up
- Dragon Tail
- U-turn

OOGH (Groudon-Primal) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- U-turn
- Thousand Arrows
- Trick

OOGH (Yveltal) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 124 Def / 136 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Shore Up
- Whirlwind
- Stealth Rock

OOGH (Chansey) @ Eviolite
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Dragon Tail
- Shore Up
- Parting Shot
- Fake Out

OOGH (Kyogre-Primal) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Quiver Dance
- Taunt

this is a fairly standard fat balance team, built to be able to take on most of the metagame defensively while retaining offensive presence. regenvest dialga takes on z-move spammers like deo-a and m2y with ease, and can also take on many variants of primal kyogre, aerilate/triage ray, and random galvanise stuff. the 16 speed evs are to outspeed paralysed deo-a. it forms a nice core with fur coat tina, which beats most pdon and various other miscellaneous physical attackers. unaware yveltal and imposter chansey provide the team with strong counterplay against set-up sweepers. scarf+adaptability pdon breaks walls with v-create, revenge kills a wide variety of offensive threats, u-turns on big zygarde and tina to get momentum, and can clean up teams late game. ph+taunt pogre is the teams win-con and status absorber -- it slaughters fat teams, especially after pdon has buttered them up.

OOGH
 

Sweet Jesus

Neal and Jack and me, absent lovers...
Phazing getting you into a coma? Don't be phased into ending your bh experience with a full stop instead of a comma.
Serves as a way to send ingrain and/or boosts to your friends that can spin/fog, as well as being a decent setup check. Helmet gets damage on those dtailers and it's immune to circle throw while also being abe to switch out if needed. Adjust ev's as needed.
Proof (bonus- good damage on mewtwo)
Aegislash @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Spectral Thief
- Ingrain
- Roost
- Baton Pass
Small detail but you're probably gonna want to run floral healing or shore up over roost (on just about any mon) because they heal more under grassy terrain and sandstorm respectively with no downside. Even if you don't set up those conditions with your team, there's a minor chance your opponent might run them.

EDIT: lol derped on floral healing. I always use shore up but misread floral healing and never actually used it.
 
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Small detail but you're probably gonna want to run floral healing or shore up over roost (on just about any mon) because they heal more under grassy terrain and sandstorm respectively with no downside. Even if you don't set up those conditions with your team, there's a minor chance your opponent might run them.
Floral Healing is actually a Heal Pulse clone (hope you don't have to learn this the hard way), and I usually run one non-Shore Up Pokemon (usually something they wouldn't benefit from hypothetical sand) to avoid losing to a random Imprison Shore Up user.
 
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Sweet Jesus

Neal and Jack and me, absent lovers...
here's the hot squad i used to get reqs:


OOGH (Dialga) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 244 SpD / 16 Spe
Calm Nature
- Core Enforcer
- Volt Switch
- Rapid Spin
- Nuzzle

OOGH (Giratina) @ Leftovers
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Moongeist Beam
- Shore Up
- Dragon Tail
- U-turn

OOGH (Groudon-Primal) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- U-turn
- Thousand Arrows
- Trick

OOGH (Yveltal) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 124 Def / 136 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Shore Up
- Whirlwind
- Stealth Rock

OOGH (Chansey) @ Eviolite
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Dragon Tail
- Shore Up
- Parting Shot
- Fake Out

OOGH (Kyogre-Primal) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Quiver Dance
- Taunt

this is a fairly standard fat balance team, built to be able to take on most of the metagame defensively while retaining offensive presence. regenvest dialga takes on z-move spammers like deo-a and m2y with ease, and can also take on many variants of primal kyogre, aerilate/triage ray, and random galvanise stuff. the 16 speed evs are to outspeed paralysed deo-a. it forms a nice core with fur coat tina, which beats most pdon and various other miscellaneous physical attackers. unaware yveltal and imposter chansey provide the team with strong counterplay against set-up sweepers. scarf+adaptability pdon breaks walls with v-create, revenge kills a wide variety of offensive threats, u-turns on big zygarde and tina to get momentum, and can clean up teams late game. ph+taunt pogre is the teams win-con and status absorber -- it slaughters fat teams, especially after pdon has buttered them up.

OOGH
Wow I actually used basicaly the same dialga set with the exception of rapid spin without ever encoutering your team. Just wanted to point out it's one of the best sp.d walls there is since ground and fighting special moves are nearly irrelevant and dialga resists the super powerful water bubble moves and psystrike with a decent defence which basicaly nothing else does without having to waste it's ability on water absorb or something.

I'd also suggest a variant of kyogre. I use freeze-dry over ice beam (chansey never got a kill on me because of it but I run defensive kyogre) but I guess that makes little difference. I'm curious of how well taunt goes for you, what exactly are you trying to stop? Others from setting upand whirlwind I suppose cause you're already immune to status. I use king's shield for blocking espeed and just extra passive recovery which is usualy super useful when I try to set up with kyogre.
 
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NabboCheTesta

Gniubbo come sempre


Pheromosa @ Safety Goggles/Focus Sash
Ability: Bad Dreams
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Close Combat
- Soul-Stealing 7-Star Strike/Icicle Crash
- Spore

Sash deoxys and m2y are pretty common leads or just often need to be revenge killed. This guy outspeeds them but kind of wastes a slot on pin missile just for those 2. I came up with another option harder to predict and more practical should your opponent just switch out to a fairy type or some wall. With a blazing fast non prankster spore, you can put to sleep any lead too busy running focush sash to worry about status moves even through psychic terrain. Bad Dreams will immediatly break your opponents sash and guarantee you a kill with u-turn on the next turn even if your opponent only sleeps for a single turn. Blazing fast Spore + strong stab u-turn turns out to be extremly useful against a plethora of other threats too. I prefer using safety goggles as an item to not get fooled by magic bouncers but sash is viable too. The other moves are just standard, Icicle crash being for zygarde and the standard option should CFZs be banned
I found another approach: In comes Skill Link Pheromosa.

Pheromosa @ Focus Sash
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Def || nothing
Hasty Nature || Jolly Nature
- Icicle Spear
- U-Turn
- Close Combat
- Dragon Ascent / Spore

Icicle Spear is more than sufficient to hammer down any Deo-A / Phero (and zygod) you find. U-Turn is U-Turn, Close Combat is Close Combat. The last move entirely depends on the item. Dragon Ascent should be used with Focus Sash and minimum physdef, as it easily slaughters any Imposter to punish lazy blobs on deospam. Spore should be used with Safety Goggles to incapacitate a mon. You can bluff Dazzling, given that there is no way to distinguish the ability from the get-go and Icicle Spear is excusable to bypass sashes against aerilate ray.

PS: When my chansey transforms into something, you cannot see the opponent's abilities / stats. Is this the intended behaviour?
 
I found another approach: In comes Skill Link Pheromosa.
Pheromosa @ Focus Sash
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Def || nothing
Hasty Nature || Jolly Nature
- Icicle Spear
- U-Turn
- Close Combat
- Dragon Ascent / Spore
This set loses to Scarf Deo-a with a mult-hit move, I would suggest putting a scarf on yours as that will outspeed Scarf Deoxys-A by a few points. Scarf Deo-A is pretty common on Deo-a spam teams because they do beat Sash Pheros. Plus you always outspeed Impostor Chansey unless it too carries a scarf, and can kill it with Dragon Ascent.
 
I found another approach: In comes Skill Link Pheromosa.

Pheromosa @ Focus Sash
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Def || nothing
Hasty Nature || Jolly Nature
- Icicle Spear
- U-Turn
- Close Combat
- Dragon Ascent / Spore

Icicle Spear is more than sufficient to hammer down any Deo-A / Phero (and zygod) you find. U-Turn is U-Turn, Close Combat is Close Combat. The last move entirely depends on the item. Dragon Ascent should be used with Focus Sash and minimum physdef, as it easily slaughters any Imposter to punish lazy blobs on deospam. Spore should be used with Safety Goggles to incapacitate a mon. You can bluff Dazzling, given that there is no way to distinguish the ability from the get-go and Icicle Spear is excusable to bypass sashes against aerilate ray.

PS: When my chansey transforms into something, you cannot see the opponent's abilities / stats. Is this the intended behaviour?
It's normal that you can't see an opponent's stats/ability/whatever after impostering them since in game all you learn about them is their moves.
 
Been quite a while since i've been using this, don't think anyone else used this on ladder b4


Groudon-Primal @ Choice Band
Ability: Stakeout
EVs: 196 HP / 252 Atk / 60 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Precipice Blades
- V-create
- Thousand Arrows
- U-turn/shoreup/boltstrike

Stakeout Primal groudon threatens current defensive builds in the meta really well right now. It punishes defensive play & scouting. It helps out with removing Zygod, which pokemon such as Zekrom appreciate. Choice band lets it deal the most damage to switch ins.Pblades can oko imposter on switch. This is pretty easy to imposterproof, I like to use Fur coat Zygarde as it takes nothing from the imposter.

YOUR GROUDON v OPP (NO SR)
+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Gyarados-Mega: 280-330 (71 - 83.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Groudon-Primal V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Gyarados-Mega: 210-247 (53.2 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Groudon-Primal Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Gyarados-Mega: 211-249 (53.5 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gyarados-Mega: 559-658 (141.8 - 167%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Groudon-Primal V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gyarados-Mega: 419-493 (106.3 - 125.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO (top kek)
+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Groudon-Primal Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gyarados-Mega: 420-495 (106.5 - 125.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde-Complete: 519-612 (81.6 - 96.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Groudon-Primal V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde-Complete: 389-458 (61.1 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Groudon-Primal Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde-Complete: 390-459 (61.3 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Zygarde-Complete: 700-825 (110 - 129.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO (spdef variants)
+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Groudon-Primal V-create vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Zygarde-Complete: 525-618 (82.5 - 97.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Groudon-Primal Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Zygarde-Complete: 526-619 (82.7 - 97.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Fur Coat Zygarde-Complete: 351-414 (55.1 - 65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (FC)
+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Groudon-Primal V-create vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Fur Coat Zygarde-Complete: 263-309 (41.3 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (FC)
+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Groudon-Primal Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Fur Coat Zygarde-Complete: 262-310 (41.1 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (FC)

+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 523-616 (103.7 - 122.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Groudon-Primal V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 392-462 (77.7 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Groudon-Primal Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 393-463 (77.9 - 91.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Giratina: 262-309 (51.9 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (FC)
+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Groudon-Primal V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Giratina: 196-231 (38.8 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (FC)
+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Groudon-Primal Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Giratina: 196-232 (38.8 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (FC)

+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Groudon-Primal V-create vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Water Bubble Kyogre-Primal: 507-597 (125.8 - 148.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

IMPOSTER CALCS v YOUR ZYGOD

+2 252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Zygarde-Complete: 174-205 (27.3 - 32.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+2 252+ Atk Groudon-Primal V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Zygarde-Complete: 130-153 (20.4 - 24%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
+2 252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Zygarde-Complete: 130-154 (20.4 - 24.2%) -- guaranteed 5HKO


Also HUGE shoutout to aki0s on helping me out with the calcs.
 
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