BH Balanced Hackmons

Spore is stopped by Safety Goggles and Baton Pass by Haze/Spectral Thief/Heart Swap. Your team looks ridiculously vulnerable to anti-set-up. A good Unaware Gyarados could Spectral Thief any of your set-up, except Xtwo, and then counter-sweep you. And that's just for starters. Prankster Haze Registeel checks your whole team (and Destiny Bonds Xtwo.) Speed/para support Light Ball Imposter Pikachu likely counter-sweeps your team if you don't have Imprison up. Aside from anti-set-up, you also pretty much lose to Simple Sash Smash and shuffle-heavy teams.

-Beyond that, looking at your sets in a vacuum and starting with Deo-S, screens are bad in the meta due to how long matches can last and the ubiquity of Defog. Almost every competent team will be able to remove your screens without having even built to counter screens. Deo-S' set needs to be changed entirely.

-Gyarados is more or less fine.

-Gengar probably wants Mold Breaker more than Dazzling. Substitute protects you from most priority that Dazzling would stop. Though Sub still may or may not be the best answer.

-Imposter is Imposter, the set is fine.

-On Xtwo, Accelrock is just bad. I mean, here's a target you'd want to hit...

+6 252 Atk Mewtwo-Mega-X Accelerock vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Rayquaza-Mega: 368-434 (88.8 - 104.8%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

...which you don't even guarantee a KO on. Neutrally hit Pokemon are just going to scoff. Besides, you have Unburden, you don't really need the priority.

-Genesect is kinda just bad, since it has really bad STAB coverage and a crummy speed tier. I'd just drop it entirely. Besides, its coverage is fairly questionable, especially since Giratina, one of the most common walls, kinda just shrugs at it.


Now, I'm limited on time, so there's likely more that needs covering here. Especially team synergy and stuff. But, between my lack of time atm and me not being great at hyper offense anyway, I can't really say much other than seriously consider some Pokemon/sets that don't need to set-up to attack and consider some bulky offensive Pokemon who can get going without playing "do or die" every time they try to set-up. You also have no way to get anyone in safely outside of revenge or a good prediction, so you may look into some pivots as well.
 
welcome to smogon. imo you have the best username ever but i'm not exactly one to talk
I'm retarded

Deoxys-Speed @ Light Clay
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Aurora Veil
- Spore
- Stealth Rock
- Safeguard
Gyarados-Mega @ White Herb
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Power Trip
- Shell Smash
- Imprison
- Sunsteel Strike
Gengar-Mega @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Dazzling
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Judgment
- Secret Sword
- Substitute
Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Skill Swap
- Fake Out
- Whirlwind
- Shore Up
Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Close Combat
- Spectral Thief
- Accelerock
Genesect @ Flame Plate
Ability: Dazzling
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Shell Smash
- Psystrike
- Bug Buzz
first off ignore the guy above me. he thinks corsola is unviable in bh yes this is a joke

here's some props and slops for you, a throwback to the warstory days of 2010

props:
  • you know the basics of bh pretty well, as evidenced by your ability to come up with 4 imposter proof sweepers. not bad.
  • your team has a clear structure and goal: set up hazards and veil so you can set up with your other guys without needing sash or fearing sheddy
  • you're using my boi genesect in bh
  • you're not using prankster registeel
  • this team generally gives low ladder the Ls they deserve
  • you're not using ph regi
slops:
  • imposter is your only counterplay for opposing mons that are already set up, which means that vs opposing hyper offense you're at a disadvantage (they usually carry prankster haze/destiny bond in case your mon gets set up)
  • the team generally comes off as slapped together hastily. i don't see any relation between the sweepers other than the fact that they're all imposter proof
  • no immediate offensive pressure. this means that for the most part opposing guys can sit there spamming spectral thief. mega audino almost 6-0s
  • i feel that you're not taking advantage of veil as much as you could be. all it really does for you is help gyara set up on a breaker or something
  • accelerock mmx makes sense if you suffer oras ou ptsd like me, but it still doesn't hit much (ice shard is better for example)
  • you kinda lose to contrary barring imposter (draco plate leaf storm/v create/judgment mega ray wins)
  • you're not using ph regi
  • worst of all: you're using the normal genesect form. this undermines the entire niche genesect has in bh, which is the ability to look cool with different forms like douse and shock.
tips:

change spore on deoxys to taunt. this helps you more efficiently imposter proof it and serves most of the same purposes. if you run into mewtwo y safeguard is probably the play anyway or maybe aurora veil

either change genesect to douse form (dissuading fire types from trying to counter it) (also give it sunsteel if you keep it over psystrike because man what does that hit) or change it to this

Palkia @ Choice Specs
Ability: Primordial Sea
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Core Enforcer
- Water Spout
- Moongeist Beam / Trick / U-turn
- Origin Pulse

this set's role is to beat guys up without the need for setup. it also imposter proofs your veil system because of how you can just switch to it and block imposter's veil with your own rain, then get free water spouts and core enforcers. it's imposter proofed by your chansey which won't transform. it also beats most contrary under veil

change accelerock on mmx to icicle crash or king's shield. icicle crash beats up zyg and lets you luck your way through giratina maybe, while king's shield causes 50/50s against imposter but prevents -ate from revenge killing. the imposter issue isn't that bad anyway because even if they come in and win the 50/50, they have to switch out or else you steal their boosts and kill them.

Spore is stopped by Safety Goggles
lul

change gengar's nature to timid, the extra speed helps a ton and it's a very frail mon even with veil

-BHTR
 

Funbot28

Breaking hearts since '09
is a Pre-Contributor
I'm retarded

Deoxys-Speed @ Light Clay
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Aurora Veil
- Spore
- Stealth Rock
- Safeguard

Gyarados-Mega @ White Herb
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Power Trip
- Shell Smash
- Imprison
- Sunsteel Strike

Gengar-Mega @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Dazzling
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Judgment
- Secret Sword
- Substitute

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Skill Swap
- Fake Out
- Whirlwind
- Shore Up

Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Close Combat
- Spectral Thief
- Accelerock

Genesect @ Flame Plate
Ability: Dazzling
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Shell Smash
- Psystrike
- Bug Buzz
Hi so it seems you have run into me on the ladder or have joined one of my games since I started utilizing Aurora Veil Offense in BH myself. I say this since your team shares a lot of similar attributes to mine, but just more sub-optimally imo. Here is the team I have been with help in building from fsk, utilizing it to great success actually (its a pity cause I feel its not fully optimized yet, but I will still share it so people can see AVeils true potency in BH):


http://pokepast.es/72366f8d19bfd122

With this, you actually have a means to stop Imposter from setting Veil themselves through Sand Stream Mega Tyranitar. With Veil setup, threats such as Regigigas and the Mega Mewtwo's become nigh impossible to take down (also note that all these sets are either full imposter proof or block Imposter through another teammate). Mega Mewtwo X is especially catered to deal with Prankster Registeel as it can OHKO it at +6 with Mach Punch before it can either utilize Haze or Destiny Bond, opening the floodgates for the team's other setup sweepers to wreck havoc.

Some replays:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-644588872
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-620846243 (old edition of team)

I suggest to give this team addition a try and see for yourself how the changes make the team more efficient. Best of Luck!
 
first off ignore the guy above me. he thinks corsola is unviable in bh yes this i
Silver_Lucario42 said:
First off, let me just say that I used to be pro-ban on Primal Groudon. However, when I saw the many amazing anti-ban arguments posted in this thread, I began to change my mind. After searching, I found a surprisingly versatile counter to Primal Groudon: Fur Coat Corsola.

Right now, you might be thinking "Corsola in BH? Why would I use that?" However, the truth is that Corsola excels at other roles as well. Its sheer cuteness can cause many unprepared opponents to forfeit at team preview. Corsola is also stronger than it looks-- Origin Pulse is a nuke under rain, having enough power to OHKO the mighty Mega Camerupt. As you can see, all you have to do to counter Primal Groudon is think outside the box.

Even though Corsola can effortlessly take a V-create, you might be shouting "What about Ground moves and Galvanize?", not realizing just how easily those sets can be countered. Another Corsola, with the Levitate ability, can handle any Primal Groudon that attempts to use a Ground-type move. Even with its high base Attack stat, there's no move Primal Groudon can use to hit a Corsola in the air.

252 Atk Groudon-Primal Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Corsola: 308-366 (92.2 - 109.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Groudon-Primal Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Corsola: 156-186 (46.7 - 55.6%) -- 18% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Corsola Origin Pulse vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Groudon-Primal: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- aim for the horn next time

252 SpA Corsola Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Groudon-Primal: 98-116 (24.3 - 28.7%) -- 98.4% chance to 4HKO

And this is post-ban, mind, so limited to Red Orb 'Don. (So not addressing the Galvanize point since it's out of date and no longer relevant.)

I don't know if you're meming or joking around, but please do not spread misinformation around, especially to new players seeking help. Yes, I'm being a kill joy/stop-having-fun-guy right now, but, you're the one who called me out without any clear indication if you were serious or not.


Unrelated but, now that I'm home, I had a chance to double check and confirm my suspicions: Genesect is largely outclassed by Mega-Scizor. Only advantage Gensect has is higher Special Attack (though 120 is rather low for a sweeper), higher speed (though unsure what relevant things Genesect outspeeds at 99 since most of the base 70-100 speed tier tends to run minimal speed investment anyway, barring some exceptions like Kyurem-Both), and ability to run different colors, mostly for style, but it can throw off noobs. Otherwise, Scizor hits much harder physically and has better bulk.
 
252 Atk Groudon-Primal Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Corsola: 308-366 (92.2 - 109.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Groudon-Primal Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Corsola: 156-186 (46.7 - 55.6%) -- 18% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Corsola Origin Pulse vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Groudon-Primal: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- aim for the horn next time

252 SpA Corsola Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Groudon-Primal: 98-116 (24.3 - 28.7%) -- 98.4% chance to 4HKO

And this is post-ban, mind, so limited to Red Orb 'Don. (So not addressing the Galvanize point since it's out of date and no longer relevant.)

I don't know if you're meming or joking around, but please do not spread misinformation around, especially to new players seeking help. Yes, I'm being a kill joy/stop-having-fun-guy right now, but, you're the one who called me out without any clear indication if you were serious or not.
Unrelated but, now that I'm home, I had a chance to double check and confirm my suspicions: Genesect is largely outclassed by Mega-Scizor. Only advantage Gensect has is higher Special Attack (though 120 is rather low for a sweeper), higher speed (though unsure what relevant things Genesect outspeeds at 99 since most of the base 70-100 speed tier tends to run minimal speed investment anyway, barring some exceptions like Kyurem-Both), and ability to run different colors, mostly for style, but it can throw off noobs. Otherwise, Scizor hits much harder physically and has better bulk.
Which means you know when to use Genesect. Also, Technoblast with the matching type changing item can replace Judgement, it is 120 Base power which is the same as Judgement with the plate.
Just give Genesect an offensive ability and solid coverage moves. Not many STAB Special Bug attackers with a good secondary typing, so that niche holds.
Edit: mixed it with Boomburst on the sound move part...

Low rank, but still useful when played correctly.
Do you think Ho-Oh is viable? At all? Post Groudon-Primal ban?
 
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tysequaine

80% sexy, 20% disgusting
Which means you know when to use Genesect. Also, Technoblast with the matching type changing item can replace Judgement, it is 120 Base power which is the same as Judgement with the plate, and is a sound move so it can go through Substitute.
Just give Genesect an offensive ability and solid coverage moves. Not many STAB Special Bug attackers with a good secondary typing, so that niche holds. Low rank, but still useful when played correctly.
Do you think Ho-Oh is viable? At all? Post Groudon-Primal ban?
Technoblast isn't a sound move, that's why some -ate users run it to get past soundproof checks.

I don't know if you're meming or joking around, but please do not spread misinformation around, especially to new players seeking help. Yes, I'm being a kill joy/stop-having-fun-guy right now, but, you're the one who called me out without any clear indication if you were serious or not.
 
Technoblast isn't a sound move, that's why some -ate users run it to get past soundproof checks.

I don't know if you're meming or joking around, but please do not spread misinformation around, especially to new players seeking help. Yes, I'm being a kill joy/stop-having-fun-guy right now, but, you're the one who called me out without any clear indication if you were serious or not.
Cute, but your quote of Rumors, while sardonic, demonstrates an absence of perspicacity.

I didn’t call him out as he was originally referring to. Perhaps you could try and stick to the first sentence?
 
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ok first of all it's time to settle the corsola misunderstanding of 2017:

i was joking. corsola isn't viable in bh. however, it is still one of the cutest pokemon in the game, a factor which cannot be underestimated.

anyway genesect's only niche in bh over mega scizor is its ability to run special moves, and its better defensive typing + stab u turn is its niche over mmy. because of this, i believe the best set is scarf u turn/trick/2 fillers (ice beam maybe) with an ability that i haven't pinned down yet. i've been running download, ironically, and the power boost is cool to ohko mega rayquaza with ice beam at +1.

full special genesect is probably terrible, i've tried a similar set (sheer force tail glow pheromosa) which was pretty thoroughly outclassed by mmy (stabs were kinda cool but not strong enough). maybe i haven't found the best set idk but mixed is probably your best bet.
Do you think Ho-Oh is viable? At all? Post Groudon-Primal ban?
ho oh is a pretty nice mon. not something you could just slap on your team but it has a solid niche as the best specially defensive fire type. i haven't tried offensive sets yet but i wouldn't rule them out as unviable either.
Cute, but you quote of Rumors, while sardonic, demonstrates an absence of perspicacity.

I didn’t call him out as he was originally referring to. Perhaps you could try and stick to the first sentence?
this mans has a high enough iq to understand rick and morty

anyway i wanted to use mega sharpedo because it was cool. trash gren kinda got in the way but i thought this set might have potential

Sharpedo @ Sharpedonite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Close Combat or something
- Crunch
- Ice Fang / Sunsteel Strike / Spectral Thief

basic goal is to abuse sturdy, set up on most guys (sungeist resist!), beat them up, mega evolve to beat imposter with the speed buff. beware imposter sturdy tho.

calcs:
+2 252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo-Mega Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Giratina: 288-342 (57.1 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo-Mega Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Registeel: 270-318 (74.1 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Sharpedo-Mega Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Audino-Mega: 310-366 (75.6 - 89.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo-Mega Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mewtwo-Mega-X: 358-423 (86 - 101.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

yeah this thing looks kinda weak but i don't want to rule it out just yet. what are your thoughts?
 
ok first of all it's time to settle the corsola misunderstanding of 2017:

i was joking. corsola isn't viable in bh. however, it is still one of the cutest pokemon in the game, a factor which cannot be underestimated.

anyway genesect's only niche in bh over mega scizor is its ability to run special moves, and its better defensive typing + stab u turn is its niche over mmy. because of this, i believe the best set is scarf u turn/trick/2 fillers (ice beam maybe) with an ability that i haven't pinned down yet. i've been running download, ironically, and the power boost is cool to ohko mega rayquaza with ice beam at +1.

full special genesect is probably terrible, i've tried a similar set (sheer force tail glow pheromosa) which was pretty thoroughly outclassed by mmy (stabs were kinda cool but not strong enough). maybe i haven't found the best set idk but mixed is probably your best bet.

ho oh is a pretty nice mon. not something you could just slap on your team but it has a solid niche as the best specially defensive fire type. i haven't tried offensive sets yet but i wouldn't rule them out as unviable either.

this mans has a high enough iq to understand rick and morty

anyway i wanted to use mega sharpedo because it was cool. trash gren kinda got in the way but i thought this set might have potential

Sharpedo @ Sharpedonite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Close Combat or something
- Crunch
- Ice Fang / Sunsteel Strike / Spectral Thief

basic goal is to abuse sturdy, set up on most guys (sungeist resist!), beat them up, mega evolve to beat imposter with the speed buff. beware imposter sturdy tho.

calcs:
+2 252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo-Mega Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Giratina: 288-342 (57.1 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo-Mega Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Registeel: 270-318 (74.1 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Sharpedo-Mega Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Audino-Mega: 310-366 (75.6 - 89.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo-Mega Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mewtwo-Mega-X: 358-423 (86 - 101.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

yeah this thing looks kinda weak but i don't want to rule it out just yet. what are your thoughts?
I was editing my post as you replied: Meme but fun.

Bannette @ Bannettite
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 0 Spe
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Sky Drop
- Copycat
- Spore
- Shadow Force

First turn Sky Drop, second Mega Evolve to give up your priority by losing Gale Wings which allows you to go last, preventing the foe from moving at all for 2 turns. Copycat it with Prankster to go first.

If that won’t work because they weigh too much then Mega evolve right away to use Spore, then Shadow Force on their switch, and then hit them last. Copycat afterwards and you will go first to become invulnerable and then go last to hit the foe. Shadow Force breaks Protect and it’s equivalents.
 
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tysequaine

80% sexy, 20% disgusting
Cute, but you quote of Rumors, while sardonic, demonstrates an absence of perspicacity.

I didn’t call him out as he was originally referring to. Perhaps you could try and stick to the first sentence?


Garchomp-Mega @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Hammer
- Thousand Arrows
- Belly Drum
- Taunt
 
I was editing my post as you replied: Meme but fun.

Bannette @ Bannettite
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 0 Spe
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Sky Drop
- Copycat
- Spore
- Shadow Force

First turn Sky Drop, second Mega Evolve to give up your priority by losing Gale Wings which allows you to go last, preventing the foe from moving at all for 2 turns. Copycat it with Prankster to go first.

If that won’t work because they weigh too much then Mega evolve right away to use Spore, then Shadow Force on their switch, and then hit them last. Copycat afterwards and you will go first to become invulnerable and then go last to hit the foe. Shadow Force breaks Protect and it’s equivalents.
Bannette-Mega @ Lagging Tail
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 0 Spe
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- some coverage or something idk
- Copycat
- Spore/ bdrum or something?
- Shadow Force
same idea, but can work multiple times in a match. not screwed over permanently if they have an -atespeeder.
still not great, but less bad.
 
Bannette-Mega @ Lagging Tail
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 0 Spe
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- some coverage or something idk
- Copycat
- Spore/ bdrum or something?
- Shadow Force
same idea, but can work multiple times in a match. not screwed over permanently if they have an -atespeeder.
still not great, but less bad.
I use Mega evolution because it works with Sky Drop, and bc of the abilities clause, so I won’t be removing Prankster as an option from teammates.

How does it not get screwed over by -Ate Speed? Extreme Speed interrupts the Copycat chain, and even you basically only added an extra a slot for an unnamed coverage move. Lagging Tail means it will always Go last, even if Impostered, which actually means that it can be Spored by Imposter on the turn Bannette tries to use Copycat, or Spore.

I know you tried to improve it, but unlike Giratina who would be a better user of the set you posted, my set takes advantage of having 2 moves and 2 abilities. Afterall, you can endlessly use Sky Drop with what I put together, and it won’t rely on Spore to pull it off, so Sky Drop can work even if the foe has Safety Goggles or is a Grass Type like Kartana, whereas your set needs Spore sleep to pull off Shadow Force on their switch to start the Copycat chain.



Garchomp-Mega @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Hammer
- Thousand Arrows
- Belly Drum
- Taunt
How about something to stop -Ate Xerneus, and Diance-Mega users?

Perhaps if you put King’s Shield over Taunt? Prevents Fake-out, and allows it to survive Extreme Speed for the Thousand Arrows 1HKO.

-2 252+ Atk Pixie Plate Pixilate Diancie-Mega Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Garchomp: 198-234 (47.1 - 55.7%) -- 73.8% chance to 2HKO

-2 252+ Atk Pixie Plate Pixilate Xerneas Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Garchomp: 170-204 (40.4 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

You shall lose Unburden upon switching, so having a move that keeps you in and allows you to KO them is what counts. :)

Just a thought...
 
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I use Mega evolution because it works with Sky Drop, and bc of the abilities clause, so I won’t be removing Prankster as an option from teammates.

How does it not get screwed over by -Ate Speed? Extreme Speed interrupts the Copycat chain, and even you basically only added an extra a slot for an unnamed coverage move. Lagging Tail means it will always Go last, even if Impostered, which actually means that it can be Spored by Imposter on the turn Bannette tries to use Copycat, or Spore.

I know you tried to improve it, but unlike Giratina who would be a better user of the set you posted, my set takes advantage of having 2 moves and 2 abilities. Afterall, you can endlessly use Sky Drop with what I put together, and it won’t rely on Spore to pull it off, so Sky Drop can work even if the foe has Safety Goggles or is a Grass Type like Kartana, whereas your set needs Spore sleep to pull off Shadow Force on their switch to start the Copycat chain.



How about something to stop -Ate Xerneus, and Diance-Mega users?

Perhaps if you put King’s Shield over Taunt? Prevents Fake-out, and allows it to survive Extreme Speed for the Thousand Arrows 1HKO.

-2 252+ Atk Pixie Plate Pixilate Diancie-Mega Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Garchomp: 198-234 (47.1 - 55.7%) -- 73.8% chance to 2HKO

-2 252+ Atk Pixie Plate Pixilate Xerneas Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Garchomp: 170-204 (40.4 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

You shall lose Unburden upon switching, so having a move that keeps you in and allows you to KO them is what counts. :)

Just a thought...
Ok first you can't use Sky Drop in this meta since it doesn't work at all on anything over 200kg (which is like 75% of the meta). Then flying types take nothing from it (the only usable one is actually Ho-Oh, everything else is already covered with the first clause) and they can literally pp stall you. You are left with imposter, MMX/Y, Gengar, Kartana, Audino, and Diancie.
Imposter swiches out, MMY has antipriority and OHKOes you no matter what, Diancie has priority and breaks copycat cycle (Boomburst OHKOes), Audino underspeeds and does whatever it likes on every second turn while it avoids a 6HKO, Gengar occasionally brings antipriority and guess what, it OHKOes. Everything else just switches out, really. Not to mention you have to begin with a regular Banette which is a really bad idea since whatever is that doing any competent player will realize it is going to mega evolve, thus gaining prankster and becoming 100% predictable. Also you can't even move from Sky Drop to Shadow Force without becoming vulnerable for a turn. Lastly, if you have to use a Mega-Evolution to bypass the limit of 2 Pranksters per team, your team is flawed from the beginning (seriously wtf needs 3 pranksters).
To the Garchomp set, KS is only going to save you when you are boosted as otherwise they go for boomburst OHKO, and the set is walled by unaware or prankster antisetup so it's not that particular or gamechanger. You are just better running better coverage (sunsteel vs unaware for example) and delegating antipriority and -ate to something else instead of trying to check everything all at once.
 
Ok first you can't use Sky Drop in this meta since it doesn't work at all on anything over 200kg (which is like 75% of the meta). Then flying types take nothing from it (the only usable one is actually Ho-Oh, everything else is already covered with the first clause) and they can literally pp stall you. You are left with imposter, MMX/Y, Gengar, Kartana, Audino, and Diancie.
Imposter swiches out, MMY has antipriority and OHKOes you no matter what, Diancie has priority and breaks copycat cycle (Boomburst OHKOes), Audino underspeeds and does whatever it likes on every second turn while it avoids a 6HKO, Gengar occasionally brings antipriority and guess what, it OHKOes. Everything else just switches out, really. Not to mention you have to begin with a regular Banette which is a really bad idea since whatever is that doing any competent player will realize it is going to mega evolve, thus gaining prankster and becoming 100% predictable. Also you can't even move from Sky Drop to Shadow Force without becoming vulnerable for a turn. Lastly, if you have to use a Mega-Evolution to bypass the limit of 2 Pranksters per team, your team is flawed from the beginning (seriously wtf needs 3 pranksters).
To the Garchomp set, KS is only going to save you when you are boosted as otherwise they go for boomburst OHKO, and the set is walled by unaware or prankster antisetup so it's not that particular or gamechanger. You are just better running better coverage (sunsteel vs unaware for example) and delegating antipriority and -ate to something else instead of trying to check everything all at once.
But when would Garchomp need Taunt? Most things that switch in have Prankster when using Haze; Topsy Turvy, Etc. Yes the Unaware mon may use Spectral Thief but Taunt doesn’t prevent that at all.

My goal was to make use of the Taunt moveslot because it would allow Garchomp to handle its counters.

Plus, why would Garchomp stay in on an -ate user unless it’s boosted anyways? The whole point is making sure the 1 time use of Unburden is not wasted because -ate users are so common that King’s Shield actually saves the set from being instantly countered... I disagree with you, Sunsteel Strike I think prevents it from losing to Unaware, and Shedinja, but aren’t -ate users more common?

The typical Unaware users are resistant to the Sunsteel Strike, such as Mega-Gyarados. And without STAB, it just won’t dent it enough, even with Belly Drum, and Gyarados has max HP and Defense...
Don’t Unaware users typically carry Spectral Thief? So, really, does attacking with Sunsteel Strike help you or does it give a free turn for your opponent to snatch boosts?


Plus King’s Shield serves a dual purpose: after a KO, you can switch in Garchomp-Mega to stall a turn and lower the Attack of a foe’s sweeper. It can be used as a last resort to weaken the foe before sending in a check or counter, such as sending in Garchomp vs Kyurem-B, King’s Shielding, then switching in your Steel type, so they take less damage from whatever moves they have, Be it STAB or coverage. Yes, people pack checks/counters to Kyurem-B, I like King’s Shield because it’s like using Reflect until the foe switches out... Contrary users not included.

Lastly, for the part I BOLDED in your quote, isn’t that what Spore is for? ;)
It’s a meme, so it was just for kicks and giggles. [As I mentioned when I posted it].

Gengar = Spore, Shadow Force for the KO. Yes it brings antipriority, but most of the time it is Normalize. As for it carrying Dazzling, or Safety Goggles Gengar - I simply have yet to run into one...

Prankster is a useful ability, if I wanted to post a reason to use Mega Stone Bannette for Prankster set I would direct you to my Assist team page, where it can use Download and Mega Evolve to launch V-Creates off what is the equivalent of a Choice Band. If backed by Sun, then boom- 706 Attack off of 270 Base Power V-Create (with Sun) constantly going first. If they are Dark, Etc. You can still Copycat the Shadow Force, just not Assist V-Create. Anyways even Assist teams are more niche and not relevant.
 
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Silver_Lucario42 Apologies then, I've been kinda... snappish lately. Though, can I ask you to make sure your jokes are more clearly jokes in the future? I don't know you well enough to immediately tell you're joking out of context, especially since, in this particular instance, you do enjoy making off-the-wall sets.


OM! The thing is, yeah, Genesect does have a niche over Mega-Scizor. But, Genesect... it's never really been good at its niches. I used to experiment with it in Gen V and early Gen VI before finally throwing in the towel by ORAS. Its crummy offensive typing gives it really horrid STAB combinations backed by a selection of decent but not great moves (Bug Buzz, Flash Cannon, Doom Desire, and I suppose Judgement), combined with okay-at-best offenses and kinda meh speed for an offensive Pokemon has always left it underwhelming no matter what I did. Best I managed was Flame Plate/Fire Drive anti-Imposter set-up set. But, the STABs just have craptacular coverage (which is partly why Mega-Scizor is almost always ran as a wall/support Pokemon that ignores its good 150 base attack) and almost every other type has a better STAB user if you try to focus on coverage movesm.

Am I saying its useless? No, probably not. Despite not being particularly bulky, its defensive typing is pretty great. So, there's probably some set that'd fit perfectly on a team somewhere. But it's one of those Pokemon you're gonna have to either bend over backwards to make work OR get five members of a team, go through a list of every Pokemon in the game (not meta, game), and realize Genesect is the only perfect fit for the sixth spot.

I'm also saying don't use it if you find a use for it. If you can make it work, more power to you. It's just not a Pokemon I would suggest to new and mid-skill level players.
 
Silver_Lucario42 Apologies then, I've been kinda... snappish lately. Though, can I ask you to make sure your jokes are more clearly jokes in the future? I don't know you well enough to immediately tell you're joking out of context, especially since, in this particular instance, you do enjoy making off-the-wall sets.


OM! The thing is, yeah, Genesect does have a niche over Mega-Scizor. But, Genesect... it's never really been good at its niches. I used to experiment with it in Gen V and early Gen VI before finally throwing in the towel by ORAS. Its crummy offensive typing gives it really horrid STAB combinations backed by a selection of decent but not great moves (Bug Buzz, Flash Cannon, Doom Desire, and I suppose Judgement), combined with okay-at-best offenses and kinda meh speed for an offensive Pokemon has always left it underwhelming no matter what I did. Best I managed was Flame Plate/Fire Drive anti-Imposter set-up set. But, the STABs just have craptacular coverage (which is partly why Mega-Scizor is almost always ran as a wall/support Pokemon that ignores its good 150 base attack) and almost every other type has a better STAB user if you try to focus on coverage movesm.

Am I saying its useless? No, probably not. Despite not being particularly bulky, its defensive typing is pretty great. So, there's probably some set that'd fit perfectly on a team somewhere. But it's one of those Pokemon you're gonna have to either bend over backwards to make work OR get five members of a team, go through a list of every Pokemon in the game (not meta, game), and realize Genesect is the only perfect fit for the sixth spot.

I'm also saying don't use it if you find a use for it. If you can make it work, more power to you. It's just not a Pokemon I would suggest to new and mid-skill level players.
Regardless of all else, I like your post, you have been very respectful overall, so besides what you referred to yourself as snappish, your posts are almost always fair, informative, useful, and refreshing. It’s considerate and gets people to want to post, especially as others have been much worse, and they know who they are.

Keep on Rumors, it’s almost a guarantee that your posts are meaningful.

*High-5!
 
Gardevoir-Mega @ Flame Orb
Ability: Flare Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Moonblast
- Psychic
- Aura Sphere
- Nasty Plot

Flare Boost is an underated Ability and I wish more people would use it. Boost Special Attack with Nasty Plot and wreck some shit! You'll have some problems with Steel and Poison moves on faster mons, but who the hell cares?! This hoe is gonna kick some ass and take some names!
 

Pikachuun

邪法使い_CC
is a Pre-Contributor
Gardevoir-Mega @ Flame Orb
Ability: Flare Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Moonblast
- Psychic
- Aura Sphere
- Nasty Plot

Flare Boost is an underated Ability and I wish more people would use it. Boost Special Attack with Nasty Plot and wreck some shit! You'll have some problems with Steel and Poison moves on faster mons, but who the hell cares?! This hoe is gonna kick some ass and take some names!
Hi I'd like to mention this is a very terrible set compared to other things you can run, MMY mostly outclasses Gardevoir-Mega (and I'd even argue surprise factor can make it a better Pixilate abuser at times) and this set is just... bleh

First, Tail Glow >> Nasty Plot, I don't know why you're running Nasty Plot
Aegislash hard-walls this, and can either Haze boosts away or Topsy-Turvy them, or just phaze if it wants, I think that's self-explanatory
Solgaleo, a common answer to MMY, eats up hits as well, even when boosted, and can OHKO with Sunsteel Strike
FC Chansey can't really threaten it but it can stall it out as Aura Sphere does pitiful damage.
Prankster users can also somewhat stall it out, I know Registeel can continue to Recover/Haze since Aura Sphere is shaky in terms of whether it can 2HKO or not
(+1 252 SpA Gardevoir-Mega Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Registeel: 170-200 (46.7 - 54.9%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO)
I'm probably missing a lot of other things but these are just the things that I immediately thought of

As for its bulk?
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mewtwo-Mega-Y Moongeist Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Gardevoir-Mega: 312-368 (91.7 - 108.2%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Sky Plate Aerilate Rayquaza-Mega Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Gardevoir-Mega: 247-292 (72.6 - 85.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (FakeSpeed is a guaranteed 2HKO, as is FakeBurst if you want to calc that)
There's also the obvious OHKOs in Gengar-Mega STAB, Kartana, that sort of thing, but I think you'll get the idea if you really want me to keep going, this is just off of the top of my head like the defending calcs

One more thing though is that this is really blatant Chansey bait, unless you improof it with somethinng it can just come right in after a boost and fire Moonblasts, it will deal more damage to you than you do to it
So basically, this will certainly not "kick some ass and take some names" like you claim
 
The main problem with Mega-Garde is its speed tier. It competes with Mewtwo-Y as a Psychic and Diancie-Mega as a Fairy, both of which who have similar power, better mixed capability, and much more speed, especially in Mewtwo's case. It's main niche is its typing which lets it bypass a few Ytwo checks, but unless you count hitting Gengar on the switch, the only Diancie check it beats is Mega-Venusaur, who's pretty rare anyway. However, because base 100 speed leaves it so exposed to offensive threats, Garde is nearly almost always forced into some sort of speed boosting set.


Flare Boost is cool though, I will agree with that. I've not used it in a long time but, back in X/Y when I was well know for using Quick Feet Shaymin, I'd sometimes swap it to Flare Boost in tournaments to take advantage of people who thought they knew the set.
 
I was playing Hackmons Cup earlier today and my opponent managed to successfully use Belch, which got me thinking: could Belch ever be useful for a self-imposterproof sweeper? After all, unlike other self-imposterproof mons (e.g. Gengar) that can die to Earth Plate Imposter or similar, I've never seen an imposter with a berry.
Answer: probably not (after all, poison is a terrible type for a coverage move), but here's a meme set that might be fun anyway:

Altaria-Mega @ Lansat Berry
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Substitute
- Spacial Rend
- Belch

It's bulky enough to survive most neutral hits before it smashes [252+ SpA Aerilate Rayquaza-Mega Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Altaria-Mega: 295-348 (83.3 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO], and it's slow enough to usually go last against offensive mons but fast enough to outspeed every unboosted mon after a shell smash. Imposter can't hurt it, while it either gets a OHKO or 2HKO on the imposter depending on whether the first Belch crits (assuming the imposter came in after you smashed). The strategy is very simple: get rid of pranksters, steel types, priority users, and Shedinjas first, then send this guy in, smash, substitute until your berry activates, and start OHKOing everything that's left. After the Lansat Berry boost, you've got a guaranteed crit on Spacial Rend and a 50% chance to crit on Belch. Most fairies die to Belch even without a crit, all fairies (except Magearna/Mawile) die to Belch with a crit, and everything dies to Spacial Rend other than steels, fairies, non-imposter Chansey, and really bulky regenvest mons.

A few calcs:
+2 252+ SpA Sniper Altaria-Mega Belch vs. -1 252 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite [Imposter] Chansey on a critical hit: 879-1035 (124.8 - 147%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Sniper Altaria-Mega Spacial Rend vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite [non-Imposter] Chansey on a critical hit: 366-432 (51.9 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Altaria-Mega Belch vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Audino-Mega: 344-406 (83.9 - 99%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ SpA Sniper Altaria-Mega Belch vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Diancie on a critical hit: 310-366 (101.9 - 120.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Sniper Altaria-Mega Spacial Rend vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Kyogre-Primal on a critical hit: 406-478 (100.4 - 118.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Sniper Altaria-Mega Spacial Rend vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Zygarde-Complete on a critical hit: 783-921 (123.1 - 144.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Sniper Altaria-Mega Spacial Rend vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Gyarados-Mega on a critical hit: 316-373 (80.2 - 94.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ SpA Sniper Altaria-Mega Spacial Rend vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Yveltal on a critical hit: 384-454 (84.2 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ SpA Sniper Altaria-Mega Spacial Rend vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Cresselia on a critical hit: 316-373 (71.1 - 84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Sniper Altaria-Mega Spacial Rend vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Kyogre-Primal on a critical hit: 270-319 (66.8 - 78.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Sniper Altaria-Mega Spacial Rend vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Slowbro-Mega on a critical hit: 436-514 (110.6 - 130.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Sniper Altaria-Mega Spacial Rend vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Muk-Alola on a critical hit: 379-447 (91.5 - 107.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
 

E4 Flint

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I have messed around with this strategy. My plan involved making use of an easy-to-use berry such as Kee, or Sitrus + Sub with Megaray. This allows Dino-Mega to perform as a wall for it, while being able to hit opposing-Dino's on previous sets that I've run. However, I found that Knock Off unfortunately doesn't trigger Kee, and that Natural Gift does not count as a berry being "consumed", but rather, both get rid of it so it can be a bit of a problem in trying to get it activated.
 
Gardevoir-Mega @ Flame Orb
Ability: Flare Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Moonblast
- Psychic
- Aura Sphere
- Nasty Plot

Flare Boost is an underated Ability and I wish more people would use it. Boost Special Attack with Nasty Plot and wreck some shit! You'll have some problems with Steel and Poison moves on faster mons, but who the hell cares?! This hoe is gonna kick some ass and take some names!
Mewtwo-Mega-Y > Gardevoir-M
Psystrike > Psychic
Tail Glow > Nasty Plot
Why does this lose to shed,add geist imo
ok hf and dab on them hates cuz images.jpeg
 
I was playing Hackmons Cup earlier today and my opponent managed to successfully use Belch, which got me thinking: could Belch ever be useful for a self-imposterproof sweeper? After all, unlike other self-imposterproof mons (e.g. Gengar) that can die to Earth Plate Imposter or similar, I've never seen an imposter with a berry.
Answer: probably not (after all, poison is a terrible type for a coverage move), but here's a meme set that might be fun anyway:

Altaria-Mega @ Lansat Berry
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Substitute
- Spacial Rend
- Belch

It's bulky enough to survive most neutral hits before it smashes [252+ SpA Aerilate Rayquaza-Mega Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Altaria-Mega: 295-348 (83.3 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO], and it's slow enough to usually go last against offensive mons but fast enough to outspeed every unboosted mon after a shell smash. Imposter can't hurt it, while it either gets a OHKO or 2HKO on the imposter depending on whether the first Belch crits (assuming the imposter came in after you smashed). The strategy is very simple: get rid of pranksters, steel types, priority users, and Shedinjas first, then send this guy in, smash, substitute until your berry activates, and start OHKOing everything that's left. After the Lansat Berry boost, you've got a guaranteed crit on Spacial Rend and a 50% chance to crit on Belch. Most fairies die to Belch even without a crit, all fairies (except Magearna/Mawile) die to Belch with a crit, and everything dies to Spacial Rend other than steels, fairies, non-imposter Chansey, and really bulky regenvest mons.

A few calcs:
+2 252+ SpA Sniper Altaria-Mega Belch vs. -1 252 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite [Imposter] Chansey on a critical hit: 879-1035 (124.8 - 147%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Sniper Altaria-Mega Spacial Rend vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite [non-Imposter] Chansey on a critical hit: 366-432 (51.9 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Altaria-Mega Belch vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Audino-Mega: 344-406 (83.9 - 99%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ SpA Sniper Altaria-Mega Belch vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Diancie on a critical hit: 310-366 (101.9 - 120.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Sniper Altaria-Mega Spacial Rend vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Kyogre-Primal on a critical hit: 406-478 (100.4 - 118.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Sniper Altaria-Mega Spacial Rend vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Zygarde-Complete on a critical hit: 783-921 (123.1 - 144.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Sniper Altaria-Mega Spacial Rend vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Gyarados-Mega on a critical hit: 316-373 (80.2 - 94.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ SpA Sniper Altaria-Mega Spacial Rend vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Yveltal on a critical hit: 384-454 (84.2 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ SpA Sniper Altaria-Mega Spacial Rend vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Cresselia on a critical hit: 316-373 (71.1 - 84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Sniper Altaria-Mega Spacial Rend vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Kyogre-Primal on a critical hit: 270-319 (66.8 - 78.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Sniper Altaria-Mega Spacial Rend vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Slowbro-Mega on a critical hit: 436-514 (110.6 - 130.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Sniper Altaria-Mega Spacial Rend vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Muk-Alola on a critical hit: 379-447 (91.5 - 107.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Is Simple better?

Also, replacing Lansat with a Pixie Plate might be good. If you fear Unaware, perhaps Core Enforcer and Judgement for Imposter sets.

Replacing Substitute with Sap Sipper and Shell Smash with Quiver Dance let’s it handle hits from both the Physical and Special side. Quiver Dance with Simple is basically a Geomancy without needing Power Herb, so it can be used over and over. If you are cocky you could use Stored Power, but then it wouldn’t be Imposterproof. Judgement Pixelate is a good surprise, just remember you can only take so many Normal Judgements, as Sap Sipper heals less on each consecutive use.

Altaria-Mega @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature Or Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Strength Sap
- Core Enforcer
- Judgement

Fairy Judgement against Imposter users, and explanation above.
 
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