BH Balanced Hackmons

Is Simple better?

Also, replacing Lansat with a Pixie Plate might be good. If you fear Unaware, perhaps Core Enforcer and Judgement for Imposter sets.

Replacing Substitute with Sap Sipper and Shell Smash with Quiver Dance let’s it handle hits from both the Physical and Special side. Quiver Dance with Simple is basically a Geomancy without needing Power Herb, so it can be used over and over. If you are cocky you could use Stored Power, but then it wouldn’t be Imposterproof. Judgement Pixelate is a good surprise, just remember you can only take so many Normal Judgements, as Sap Sipper heals less on each consecutive use.

Altaria-Mega @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature Or Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Sap Sipper
- Core Enforcer
- Judgement

Fairy Judgement against Imposter users, and explanation above.
The entire point of the set is that you can set up smash without being scared of being killed by normal type judg, and to prove that belch can be situational useful. The set is built around imp not being able to touch you at all because they don't have a berry, and that seems to have went entirely over your head.
 
Is Simple better?

Also, replacing Lansat with a Pixie Plate might be good. If you fear Unaware, perhaps Core Enforcer and Judgement for Imposter sets.

Replacing Substitute with Sap Sipper and Shell Smash with Quiver Dance let’s it handle hits from both the Physical and Special side. Quiver Dance with Simple is basically a Geomancy without needing Power Herb, so it can be used over and over. If you are cocky you could use Stored Power, but then it wouldn’t be Imposterproof. Judgement Pixelate is a good surprise, just remember you can only take so many Normal Judgements, as Sap Sipper heals less on each consecutive use.

Altaria-Mega @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature Or Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Sap Sipper
- Core Enforcer
- Judgement

Fairy Judgement against Imposter users, and explanation above.
As jrm said, the whole point is to use Belch. But Simple is a good idea. A crit hits just as hard after a Simple Shell Smash as with Shell Smash + Sniper, non-crits hit harder, and you have extra speed to beat scarfers, with no disadvantage except doing less damage to unaware mons.

Also, with Simple, it might make sense to use Petaya Berry and Clanging Scales instead of Lansat Berry and Spacial Rend. I'll add calcs later once I'm back at my computer.

Edit: Here are the promised calcs. Note: for Lansat Berry + Belch calcs, I'm running the calcs assuming no crit; I'll use square brackets to indicate the actual chance of a OHKO once crits are taken into account.

Lansat:
+4 252+ SpA Altaria-Mega Belch vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Mimikyu: 292-344 (92.9 - 109.5%) -- 56.3% [78.1%] chance to OHKO
+4 252+ SpA Altaria-Mega Belch vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Diancie-Mega: 283-333 (93 - 109.5%) -- 56.3% [78.1%] chance to OHKO
+4 252+ SpA Altaria-Mega Belch vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Diancie: 206-243 (67.7 - 79.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO [50% chance to OHKO]
+4 252+ SpA Altaria-Mega Spacial Rend vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Kyogre-Primal on a critical hit: 405-477 (100.2 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+4 252+ SpA Altaria-Mega Spacial Rend vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Gyarados-Mega on a critical hit: 313-370 (79.4 - 93.9%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Petaya:
+6 252+ SpA Altaria-Mega Belch vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Mimikyu: 389-458 (123.8 - 145.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+6 252+ SpA Altaria-Mega Belch vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Diancie-Mega: 377-444 (124 - 146%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+6 252+ SpA Altaria-Mega Belch vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Diancie: 275-324 (90.4 - 106.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
+6 252+ SpA Altaria-Mega Clanging Scales vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Kyogre-Primal: 394-465 (97.5 - 115%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
+6 252+ SpA Altaria-Mega Clanging Scales vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Gyarados-Mega: 307-363 (77.9 - 92.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Excluding Unaware, these are the only relevant mons I could find where it makes a difference. Petaya helps you against Mimikyu (assuming Disguise is already broken) and Mega Diancie, and against any regular Diancie that has already taken some chip damage. But Petaya also sacrifices ~2% of the power of your STAB move, which can make a difference against Primal Kyogre and Regenvest Mega Gyarados. I think sticking with Lansat is probably best, mainly because it lets you hit Unaware mons 50% harder.
 
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The ultimate revenge killer

Vanillite @ Focus Sash
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Endeavor
- Extreme Speed
- Icicle Crash
- Knock Off


Guaranteed to take one pokemon. Great for killing setup sweepers and Chanseys. Just let them knock you down to the sash, use endeavor, watch them die to hail, and laugh because they were just killed by ice cream.
 
The ultimate revenge killer

Vanillite @ Focus Sash
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Endeavor
- Extreme Speed
- Icicle Crash
- Knock Off


Guaranteed to take one pokemon. Great for killing setup sweepers and Chanseys. Just let them knock you down to the sash, use endeavor, watch them die to hail, and laugh because they were just killed by ice cream.
toxic/wilo/hazards beat it
rocky helmet aswell
so run magic guard

but its foolproof my dood!
 
Thought I would post this team that I put together, would like some recommendations and suggestions on how to improve the team
Regigigas @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Facade
- Shift Gear
- Knock Off/Spectral Thief
- Spore/Lovely Kiss

Solgaleo @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 12 Spe
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- U-turn
- Rapid Spin
- Spectral Thief
- Sunsteel Strike

Zygarde-Complete @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Thousand Waves
- Shore Up
- Spectral Thief
- Volt Switch

Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Blue Flare
- Moongeist Beam
- Tail Glow

Tyranitar-Mega @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Topsy-Turvy/Sandstorm
- Knock Off
- Shore Up
- U-turn

Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psycho Boost
- Overheat
- Judgment
- Spore

So I sort of just put stuff together so there wasn't a clear start. Regigigas provides a Knock Off Sponge and a decent wincon as well as status absorber while supporting the team with Knock Off+Spore to put walls to sleep and to remove annoying items especially Safety Goggles. RegenVest Solgaleo blanket checks many threats while removing hazards, has enough speed to outspeed MMY at +2. Magic Bounce Zygod helps annoy enemy walls as well as eat up Imposter, Volt Switch so it can pivot while the Imposter cannot flee from TWaves, speed is also to outspeed MMY at +2, these speed can be removed if it is unnecessary. I used Sheer Force MMY because it can break Solgaleo while being an effective sweeper rather than an one-time nuke with Surge. To improof this MMY I used MTTar with Unaware. Then I wanted to add another MMY to confuse the opponent while being able to break Solgaleo as well because that thing is way too commonly used to check MMY, but since I only have 1 team slot I used this Contrary set which I can also improof with MTtar, Spore helps since there are a few KOff users while Psycho is STAB, Overheat hits steels, and Fairy Judgment hits darks while being able to Improof
 
The entire point of the set is that you can set up smash without being scared of being killed by normal type judg, and to prove that belch can be situational useful. The set is built around imp not being able to touch you at all because they don't have a berry, and that seems to have went entirely over your head.
Actually it seems my post went over your head... I didn’t say the Belch set was bad, I asked if Simple was better than it.

Afterall, you lower Defenses through Shell Smash and are vulnerable to Pixelate and Refrigerate priority, not to mention Triage priority. At least Quiver Dance and Sap Sipper work to boost SpD and lower the Atk, which can help on the foe’s switch in.

The Belch set would have to immediately switch as the set expects both a Shell Smash and being alive at 25% or less health to activate Lansat Berry. If the Sub breaks and you are at 25%, that is the very definition of -Ate weak.

If you want to spare it by switching out, then it’s Critical Hit Boost is gone, which makes Sniper and Spacial Rend suboptimal options without the Lansat Berry effect.

It’s unique and serves a useful purpose: imposterproof, but how situational and how many conditions does it take to work? Is it a one time use?

Lastly, this is not to critique the creator of the set’s post but to respond to jrm115.
Just showing that I understand the set all to well, and from that perhaps now jrm115 can see the point of Simple being possibly more consistent in a variety of different scenarios. #CaseClosed
 
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Actually it seems my post went over your head... I didn’t say the Belch set was bad, I asked if Simple was better than it.

Afterall, you lower Defenses through Shell Smash and are vulnerable to Pixelate and Refrigerate priority, not to mention Triage priority. At least Quiver Dance and Sap Sipper work to boost SpD and lower the Atk, which can help on the foe’s switch in.

The Belch set would have to immediately switch as the set expects both a Shell Smash and being alive at 25% or less health to activate Lansat Berry. If the Sub breaks and you are at 25%, that is the very definition of -Ate weak.

If you want to spare it by switching out, then it’s Critical Hit Boost is gone, which makes Sniper and Spacial Rend suboptimal options without the Lansat Berry effect.

It’s unique and serves a useful purpose: imposterproof, but how situational and how many conditions does it take to work? Is it a one time use?

Lastly, this is not to critique the creator of the set’s post but to respond to jrm115.
Just showing that I understand the set and don’t see why jrm115 doesn’t see the point of Simple being possibly more consistent in a variety of different scenarios. #CaseClosed
Next time read my post: "could Belch ever be useful for a self-imposterproof sweeper?...probably not...but here's a meme set that might be fun anyway."

You took a meme set that I already admitted was bad and turned it into something that is neither good nor a meme. Whether your set is better than the original is irrelevant.
 
Next time read my post: "could Belch ever be useful for a self-imposterproof sweeper?...probably not...but here's a meme set that might be fun anyway."

You took a meme set that I already admitted was bad and turned it into something that is neither good nor a meme. Whether your set is better than the original is irrelevant.
Again, my post was only to prove that I understand what it was for.

You assume I didn’t read your post, last page I had the same situation where it appeared someone didn’t see I wrote “meme” (for the Bannette set last page). But I know it’s a meme, Belch itself, especially in BH is a meme move.

I did read your post, my concern was the he assumed I didn’t understand the point of why it was posted at all. My point was that I do understand what it is good for, Imposterproofing allows you to set up while the Imposter cannot touch you, and that is what it could be used for, even if not intended for anything else...

But I was concerned that Simple and Sap Sipper might be worth considering as well. I think Altaria-Mega itself is a meme because like Bannette, they are almost completely outclassed except for niche things like a Mega Stone or having Unique typing. So in my definition, even my set is still a meme set because I use Altaria-Mega and Sap Sipper... perhaps you don’t think picking a niche at best Pokémon constitutes a meme? Maybe that wasn’t clear?

I don’t think my set was good, just something that could be used less situationally.
 
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Chessking345 Most of the sets look pretty standard, so not much to comment on specific sets. Worth noting though, you're double weak to Fighting and Ground without a resistant check (you can switch Ytwo in on a Fighting attack but it'll still probably hurt.) You're also triple weak to Dark and Ghost, which will probably put a lot of pressure on T-Tar. Ghost/Fighting M-Gengar will probably give you quite a bit of trouble, especially if its Normalize or Mold Breaker set-up. Also worth noting standard physical/mixed Contrary will probably break T-Tar due to 4x SE Super Power, despite Unaware. I'd probably look more into your defensive type synergy a bit more before looking deeper into the team.

Also, not sure what Sandstorm on T-Tar is supposed to accomplish. Also, keep in mind, Unaware ignores the reversed boosts given by Topsy, so an opponent aware of this can just keep bopping T-Tar even if you minimize their offensive stats.
 
Thought I would post this team that I put together, would like some recommendations and suggestions on how to improve the team
Regigigas @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Facade
- Shift Gear
- Knock Off/Spectral Thief
- Spore/Lovely Kiss

Solgaleo @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 12 Spe
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- U-turn
- Rapid Spin
- Spectral Thief
- Sunsteel Strike

Zygarde-Complete @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Thousand Waves
- Shore Up
- Spectral Thief
- Volt Switch

Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Blue Flare
- Moongeist Beam
- Tail Glow

Tyranitar-Mega @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Topsy-Turvy/Sandstorm
- Knock Off
- Shore Up
- U-turn

Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psycho Boost
- Overheat
- Judgment
- Spore

So I sort of just put stuff together so there wasn't a clear start. Regigigas provides a Knock Off Sponge and a decent wincon as well as status absorber while supporting the team with Knock Off+Spore to put walls to sleep and to remove annoying items especially Safety Goggles. RegenVest Solgaleo blanket checks many threats while removing hazards, has enough speed to outspeed MMY at +2. Magic Bounce Zygod helps annoy enemy walls as well as eat up Imposter, Volt Switch so it can pivot while the Imposter cannot flee from TWaves, speed is also to outspeed MMY at +2, these speed can be removed if it is unnecessary. I used Sheer Force MMY because it can break Solgaleo while being an effective sweeper rather than an one-time nuke with Surge. To improof this MMY I used MTTar with Unaware. Then I wanted to add another MMY to confuse the opponent while being able to break Solgaleo as well because that thing is way too commonly used to check MMY, but since I only have 1 team slot I used this Contrary set which I can also improof with MTtar, Spore helps since there are a few KOff users while Psycho is STAB, Overheat hits steels, and Fairy Judgment hits darks while being able to Improof
Firstly let me say how glad I am that someone has posted usable sets for once *cough* Shiftry *cough*.

Second I'll share some observations although I don't have time to test it or anything rn:
Unaware ttar seems an odd choice when Unaware Gyarados would work (not actually calced but I assume it's bulky enough). This has the advantage of not being weak to sunsteel strike which is nice and it helps with your ground weakness slightly although it does worsen your matchup against Rayquaza. (After reading it again I remembered Judgment is neutral on Gyarados but it probably still improofs, however not as good an idea as I first thought.
Your team is hellishly weak to Shedinja, you have about one (edit: 2) move that can kill it + sandstorm(?!) and nothing that can switch in. Replacing Zygarde with Giratina would go a long way to fix this and gives you a handy fighting immunity but obviously you'd need to think out the set again. However this has a big downside of making you much weaker to MGar so you'd need to sort this out somewhere else...
Adding stealth rocks somewhere would be a good idea for shed and other things but where to put it idk.
I'd be tempted to change rapid spin to core enforcer on solgaleo which threatens a few more things and my reasoning being you're not weak to hazards particularly and any teams that have heavy hazard spam are pretty much guaranteed to switch in Giratina anyway.

Sorry if that wasn't actually very helpful. I'll comment again once I've tested it.
 
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AForgottenEvent use a level one pokemon. If you do, you can still use endeavor to OHKO your opponent even if they use toxic/willowisp/leech seed etc. on you, because, while they might stil be at 20 or so hp(assuming they status you and you use endeavor), the hail will chop off said 20 or so hp.
 
Again, my post was only to prove that I understand what it was for.

You assume I didn’t read your post, last page I had the same situation where it appeared someone didn’t see I wrote “meme” (for the Bannette set last page). But I know it’s a meme, Belch itself, especially in BH is a meme move.

I did read your post, my concern was the he assumed I didn’t understand the point of why it was posted at all. My point was that I do understand what it is good for, Imposterproofing allows you to set up while the Imposter cannot touch you, and that is what it could be used for, even if not intended for anything else...

But I was concerned that Simple and Sap Sipper might be worth considering as well. I think Altaria-Mega itself is a meme because like Bannette, they are almost completely outclassed except for niche things like a Mega Stone or having Unique typing. So in my definition, even my set is still a meme set because I use Altaria-Mega and Sap Sipper... perhaps you don’t think picking a niche at best Pokémon constitutes a meme? Maybe that wasn’t clear?

I don’t think my set was good, just something that could be used less situationally.
Your set didnt exist. Sap sipper is an ability, not a move.
 
Here's a team that has done a lot for me, especially in a PDon free meta. I've found it is overall solid defensively and can still pack some power offensively. Imposter is never a problem really unless they get my MMX when Audino is down, but it is manageable.

https://pokepast.es/16630eb635ed7c9f

  • I like to lead with Gyarados and start the game with a strong knock off. When up against imposter, I find it worth it to stay in and remove their eviolite. This guy demolishes non FC Tina, pursuit traps Solgaleo for the OHKO, can handle almost any MMY depending on its boosts and coverage. Sucker punch is clutch with psychic terrain is out and you know the opponent isn't anti-priority.
  • I went with Celesteela for regenvest over Solgaleo for something different but still effective in checking most Rayquaza, MMY, and Diancie sets but also can more safely switch into impostered Gyarados if needed. Anchor shot and core enforcer can be effective in trapping and eliminating PH mons if played right.
  • Audino is pretty self explanatory. Will-o-wisp to punish physical attackers, Shedinja, and imposters. This is my go to switch in for impostered MMX. I've considered switching to Xerneas for a full resist to Focus blast, but I like the ghost immunity. I've also done MB but I like PH better.
  • Yvetal is my main Gengar answer with Rev dance and punishment + unaware usually does a number on most boosters. Problems occur usually with Fairies or boosters with SE coverage.
  • I chose prankster Aegislash over Registeel in order to have a safe Shedinja switch in. Entrainment for PH and -ate mons, or to get rid of other abilities.
  • MMX is something I had been wanting to try out for a while and it has done a lot of good for me. I wrote about it more on the creative and underrated sets thread.
Here are some replays:
vs Audino & Shed stall. Don't mind the trash Gengar I'm using
vs PH Regi offense
vs Hoenn trio BO

EDIT: Looks like I'm having trouble with pokepaste. Here is the team:

Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Fightinium Z
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Focus Blast
- Blizzard
- Grass Whistle
- Magma Storm

Gyarados-Mega @ Choice Band
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Pursuit
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Liquidation

Yveltal @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Punishment
- Revelation Dance
- Baneful Bunker
- Recover

Audino-Mega @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp
- U-turn
- Spectral Thief

Celesteela @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Core Enforcer
- Anchor Shot
- U-turn

Aegislash @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Entrainment
- Shore Up
- Destiny Bond
- Spectral Thief
 
Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Fightinium Z
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Focus Blast
- Blizzard
- Grass Whistle
- Magma Storm

Gyarados-Mega @ Choice Band
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Pursuit
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Liquidation

Yveltal @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Punishment
- Revelation Dance
- Baneful Bunker
- Recover

Audino-Mega @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp
- U-turn
- Spectral Thief

Celesteela @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Core Enforcer
- Anchor Shot
- U-turn

Aegislash @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Entrainment
- Shore Up
- Destiny Bond
- Spectral Thief
If you're using a special No Guard set, STAB Focus Blast doesn't seem to have any merit over MMY's higher Speed and Special Attack or Mega Gengar's typing. For example, Gengar can use No Guard sleep as well as Hex to effectively have a 130 bp move. You can also have Inferno for coverage and a burn if necessary. Not sure what direction No Guard MMY would go.

Punishment has less practicality than Spectral Thief because you're not taking the boosts for yourself. You could end up not OHKOing whatever boosted up because they had boosts in defense or special defense. You also don't guarantee KOs on things that are bulky and not too highly boosted.

Max speed on Celesteela contradicts its apparent usage for trapping, pivoting, and removing abilities. If it's 0 IVs and a negative nature with no EVs, you can not only underspeed anything with 115 or more speed and pivot safely into one of your offensive attackers, but also nullify the abilities of most opposing faster Pokemon.

Haze is better than Entrainment on Prankster because it allows you to get rid of status if your Unaware user or other status stoppers are gone. You're not usually concerned about abilities because you have a user of Core Enforcer.

Gyarados is fine, Audino is fine

I would consider something to capitalize off of Solgaleo's removal, such as an -Ate user or Psychic Surge Mega Mewtwo Y
 
KrazyKoopa95 In response to you here and in the suspect discussion, Heat Crash is, unfortunately, not a good move, as it does damage by difference in weight. Primal don being one of the heaviest Pokemon, seems like it'd be strong, right? Problem is BH is full of big, fat, and heavy legendaries, so getting a good base power is very difficult. For example, Giratina, one of the most common Pokemon in the tier, is more than heavy enough to turn any Heat Crashes aimed at it into a whopping BP 40 move. Couple this with Heat Crash capping at a base power of 120, its inconsistency in reaching that value causes it to pale in comparison to V-Create (BP 180), Flare Blitz (BP 120), and Sacred Fire (BP 100).

Notable Pokemon who are walls or are bulky and don't get hit by max power include Zygarde-Complete, both Groudons, both Giratinas, both Kyogres, Regigas, Mega Steelix, Palkia, Reshiram, Zekrom, Kyurem-all three, Arceus, Celesteela, Mega Gyarados, Xerneas, Solgaleo, Lugia, Registeel, Mega-Tyranitar, both Rayquaza, and Yveltal. Assuming I missed nobody. Most of these are high tier meta Pokemon and not being able to hit them hard is pretty detrimental.

But if you still want to try it out, run Red Orb Groudon and go have fun. And run Heavy Slam for good measure and crumple a Mega-Diancie with it.


harrysky This topic isn't for hacking Pokemon into the games themselves. I'm not sure anywhere on the Smogon forums is the place for that sort of request or even allowed to be requested outside of testing game mechanics.
 
KrazyKoopa95 In response to you here and in the suspect discussion, Heat Crash is, unfortunately, not a good move, as it does damage by difference in weight. Primal don being one of the heaviest Pokemon, seems like it'd be strong, right? Problem is BH is full of big, fat, and heavy legendaries, so getting a good base power is very difficult. For example, Giratina, one of the most common Pokemon in the tier, is more than heavy enough to turn any Heat Crashes aimed at it into a whopping BP 40 move. Couple this with Heat Crash capping at a base power of 120, its inconsistency in reaching that value causes it to pale in comparison to V-Create (BP 180), Flare Blitz (BP 120), and Sacred Fire (BP 100).

Notable Pokemon who are walls or are bulky and don't get hit by max power include Zygarde-Complete, both Groudons, both Giratinas, both Kyogres, Regigas, Mega Steelix, Palkia, Reshiram, Zekrom, Kyurem-all three, Arceus, Celesteela, Mega Gyarados, Xerneas, Solgaleo, Lugia, Registeel, Mega-Tyranitar, both Rayquaza, and Yveltal. Assuming I missed nobody. Most of these are high tier meta Pokemon and not being able to hit them hard is pretty detrimental.

But if you still want to try it out, run Red Orb Groudon and go have fun. And run Heavy Slam for good measure and crumple a Mega-Diancie with it.


harrysky This topic isn't for hacking Pokemon into the games themselves. I'm not sure anywhere on the Smogon forums is the place for that sort of request or even allowed to be requested outside of testing game mechanics.
Thank you!
you can still run Groudon with Red Orb.
I tried, it still tells me it is banned.
 

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