BH Balanced Hackmons

[Rumors]

Don't wanna sound salty lol but will Imposter ever be banned? It's honestly the most stupid and cancerous ability in the game. I work hard to make a como that not only synergizes well but also counters each other. It's not fair when I capitalize on a opponents mistake to set up just to be impostered.

Imposter is in a position where it is allowed since it holds the tier together. Imposterless BH would need lots and lots of bans, in Pokemon, moves, and abilities, to get to balanced again. Especially set-up sweepers, since it makes you think about setting up rather then putting Simple and Contrary on everything. Now, you can still capitalize on an opponent's mistake, you just need to go about it differently. There's a few ways to Imposter-proof certain Pokemon and a lot of sets can be made Imposter resistant, especially with Judgement and Multistrike. You can also even force a win condition against lazy, reckless use of Imposter with things like Magnet Pull.


Based Sexy Pants A regenerator core works well against that and Magic Bounce shuts it down completely. Magic Coat also works and Spiky Shield wastes his PP. Sleep Talk also only has 16 PP. Also also, it's generally a good idea to try to clear hazards as soon as you can.

Though, yeah, it's probably not healthy, though not a high priority. I also question if Sleep Talk is supposed to be able to call Whirlwind.

 

[Em]

My only way to remove hazards was Rapid Spin, which I can't click on a Giratina. Also the team lacks huge offensive pressure without setting up, so I couldn't do anything against the Tina until I could remove hazards, unless I wanted to take a lot of damage on my Marshadow, or break my Hoopa's Sash. I don't doubt that I could have played better though. As for why I posted it here I was more joke-ranting than actually saying we should ban it, but I'll keep that in mind MAMP.

 

[aphrion]

I'm surprised this guy hasn't gotten more attention, given that he OHKO's a large portion of the meta:

Pheromosa @ Life Orb
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pin Missile
- Icicle Spear
- V-create
- Catastropika

Here are some calcs:

252 Atk Life Orb Pheromosa Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Deoxys-Attack: 1730-2040 (717.8 - 846.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Pheromosa Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mewtwo-Mega-Y: 755-895 (213.8 - 253.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Pheromosa Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 405-480 (100.2 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Pheromosa Catastropika vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Yveltal: 460-543 (100.8 - 119%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Pheromosa Catastropika vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Kyogre-Primal: 478-564 (118.3 - 139.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Pheromosa V-create vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Solgaleo: 499-588 (104.3 - 123%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Pheromosa Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Zygarde-Complete: 520-625 (90.7 - 109%) -- approx. 12.5% chance to OHKO

And it is conveniently Imposterproofed by Primal Groudon:
252 Atk Pheromosa Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Groudon-Primal: 100-120 (24.7 - 29.7%) -- approx. 100% chance to 4HKO

Its only real issues, as far as I can tell, are priority (which isn't as common as it used to be due to Dazzling/Queenly Majesty/Psychic Surge) and Choice Scarf users (212+ Spe Choice Scarf Primal Kyogre outruns it).

I also considered Mega Heracross with the same moveset, since Adamant Focus Sash Mega Heracross deals more damage than Jolly Life Orb Pheromosa, but overall I think Pheromosa's speed is more important, since the power difference really only matters against Zygarde:

252+ Atk Heracross-Mega Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Zygarde-Complete: 560-660 (97.7 - 115.1%) -- approx. 93.8% chance to OHKO

Personally, I run a slightly different set that I like a little better:

Pheromosa @ Choice Band
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Pin Missile
- Arm Thrust
- Icicle Spear

Choice gives you a boost that doesn't cost you precious HP and blocks choice Trick mons, though you have to switch out a lot (not a problem for me). It also guarantees death to everything that doesn't resist or have ridiculous bulk (looking at you, Zygarde - you will instantly die to Icicle Spear almost all the time) and gets around sash Psychic sweepers like Deo-A and MMY. Sunsteel Strike kills unsuspecting Shedinjas on sight.

Can we talk about this?
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-494378489
It's not even that my team was bad (it's actually an amazing team) or that I played that awful, I think Comatose Deoxys-S is just straight up broken. This is reminiscent of Gen V Prankster Riolu. The only ways to beat this are PP stall, Magic Bounce, Triage, -ate's, or Prankster Defog. Besides that it's literally going to destroy your team.

On the one hand, I don't doubt that you have a great team that normally wrecks shit. On the other, you're complaining about this because the only solutions to Comatose Deo-S are a bunch of really common, strong sets that most anyone playing the meta can and does work into their team. Perhaps it will start to centralize the meta towards those sets, but it's not like they're niche mons that no one uses - Triage was on the ban discussion at some point iirc, -ate spam has always been around since those abilities were introduced, and Prankster is just straight up useful (though less so now that it's nerfed). PP stall is a lot less common because it's so much harder to play well in this meta, but I'd be interested in seeing it become potentially viable, as annoying as it could be, because diversity is usually a good thing. Please, feel free to make a counter-argument, I'd love to see why my opinions are potentially bad/stupid.
EDIT: Just saw replies, on second thought it prolly is unhealthy, but that doesn't change that it's not difficult to deal with.

 

[motherlove]

Regenerator core doesn't really work since you don't choose who you get whirlwinded on, Prankster Defog / Priority is easily taken care of with Psychic terrain support, Protect / Spiky Shield doesn't waste PP since whirlwind ignores protect.

But yeah Magic Bounce fucks it up to no end. As in a team based around that has literally no way to get past Magic Bounce unless you run a circle throw dedicated mon and a Dtail dedicated mon.
Magic Coat should in theory work even better since if you can recognise the gimmick from team preview, you can stop the hazard lead.

Anyway having ran this strat on ladder (currently in the 1600s) I'd still have a hard time saying it's broken.
For one you need at least 1 hazard setters, 1 terrain setter and 2 shufflers, that's 4 mons you dedicate to something that's shut down by either an ability or a move.
I don't think it's too much to ask people to prepare for it, it's not completely unreasonable to think that you'd have to change one of your moveslots on one of your mons to magic coat, or run rapid spin on your -ate mon or stuff like that.

But yeah at the same time I don't think it's fair to brush it off as something "easy to deal with" and that "any good team already has an answer to", you could be running dual regen + dual PH and still lose to it if you get a bit unlucky.

My thoughts might seem a bit scattered, but really for now if anything, I think we should leave it as it is, it is a legitimately threatening strat that you need to prepare for, but BH has the tools to prepare for it without focusing on only preparing for that specific strat.

Here's a few battles I had this morning if you're interested in what a team abusing this would potentially look like: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-494598425
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-494605684
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-494622744

 

[willdbeast]

My only way to remove hazards was Rapid Spin, which I can't click on a Giratina. Also the team lacks huge offensive pressure without setting up, so I couldn't do anything against the Tina until I could remove hazards, unless I wanted to take a lot of damage on my Marshadow, or break my Hoopa's Sash. I don't doubt that I could have played better though. As for why I posted it here I was more joke-ranting than actually saying we should ban it, but I'll keep that in mind MAMP.

Maybe the things you just outlined are the problem here not the deoxys. Also just run suction cups xD

 

[ElMustacho]

May I present you this?

Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Choice Specs
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psycho Boost
- Moongeist Beam/Overheat
- Trick/Secret Sword/Moonblast
- Volt Switch/Ice Beam

This set, under psychic terrain support, kills most opponents with Psycho Boost, sometimes even the sturdiest ones. At full health.

Calcs made considering Psychic Terrain.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Mewtwo-Mega-Y Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Zygarde-Complete: 570-672 (89.6 - 105.6%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mewtwo-Mega-Y Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Audino-Mega: 469-553 (114.3 - 134.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mewtwo-Mega-Y Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Giratina: 486-573 (96.4 - 113.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Mewtwo-Mega-Y Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Registeel: 414-486 (113.7 - 133.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

If Registeel can't take the hit, then aegislash can't neither.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Mewtwo-Mega-Y Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Celesteela: 546-642 (137.1 - 161.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mewtwo-Mega-Y Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Kyogre-Primal: 394-465 (97.5 - 115%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

Not even imposter chansey can switch very well on psycho boost.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Mewtwo-Mega-Y Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Mewtwo-Mega-Y: 436-514 (61.5 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Without eviolite it risks the OHKO.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Mewtwo-Mega-Y Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mewtwo-Mega-Y: 654-770 (92.3 - 108.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

Deinvesting your own spdef grants you something like 10% more damage, which ensures the KO without eviolite.
Our winner is Solgaleo, which double resists (and thus resists) Psychics moves; it avoids the OHKO with every move; Moongeist Beam becomes the best move.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Mewtwo-Mega-Y Moongeist Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Solgaleo: 378-446 (79 - 93.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

130 bp and super effectiveness is required to OHKO it, and is provided by Overheat.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mewtwo-Mega-Y Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Solgaleo: 492-580 (102.9 - 121.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Pratically 1 layer of spikes ensures the KO on anything not named chansey, blissey or solgaleo.

Dark type are obviously immune, but we have room for coverage.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mewtwo-Mega-Y Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gyarados-Mega: 278-328 (70.5 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I've never seen Gyarados invested in spdef, but moonblast 2OHKOs anyway.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mewtwo-Mega-Y Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Yveltal: 338-398 (74.1 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Ice beam is close enough btw.
Obviously mtar can't survive secret sword at all.

Greeninja can't switch on coverage moves, but outspeeds this mmy set.
Ice beam is there only for zygarde, as it OHKOs it no matter what.
Moongeist beam is nice coverage and helps with shedinja.

It easy to manage for the porpoise of imposter proofness, by selecting walls appropriate for the coverage moves and by considering that the imposter will have his spatk probably halved and will miss the extra, coveted power given by the specs.
I think it's possible to run adaptability to destroy stuff, but negating x2 resist is invaluable to me.

 

[Rumors]

Regenerator core doesn't really work since you don't choose who you get whirlwinded on, Prankster Defog / Priority is easily taken care of with Psychic terrain support, Protect / Spiky Shield doesn't waste PP since whirlwind ignores protect

It does. Its not proofing it, but, if you have two Regenerators who are not weak to SR while being vulnerable to spikes, and you have all six of your Pokemon, Sleep Talk would have a 1/3rd chance of wasting PP by effectively healing a Regenerator. You're effectively cutting potential damage to your team by the strategy by 33% so long as they exist at enough HP to switch in. I forgot Whirlwind bypasses Protect these days, but I also forgot Magic Guard, which doesn't give a flying flip about any hazards that aren't webs.

So... if it ever becomes prevalent enough to be cancer, you can run 2 Regenerators and 2 Magic Guard users until it goes away one way or another.


As for Psychic Terrain, that only lasts 5-8 turns and you'll need many more than that to "sweep" a team with Sleepwind. And that assumes no switching, so really 4-7 at best.

 

[Quantum Tesseract]

It does. Its not proofing it, but, if you have two Regenerators who are not weak to SR while being vulnerable to spikes, and you have all six of your Pokemon, Sleep Talk would have a 1/3rd chance of wasting PP by effectively healing a Regenerator. You're effectively cutting potential damage to your team by the strategy by 33% so long as they exist at enough HP to switch in. I forgot Whirlwind bypasses Protect these days, but I also forgot Magic Guard, which doesn't give a flying flip about any hazards that aren't webs.

So... if it ever becomes prevalent enough to be cancer, you can run 2 Regenerators and 2 Magic Guard users until it goes away one way or another.


As for Psychic Terrain, that only lasts 5-8 turns and you'll need many more than that to "sweep" a team with Sleepwind. And that assumes no switching, so really 4-7 at best.

Magic Guard isn't all that helpful in my experience, as in most/many cases dragon tail and/or circle throw is superior. You're just getting chipped down more slowly, which also fucks over Magic Coat and Magic Bounce. I suppose you could run Magic Bounce Tina+a fairy, but then if they decide to run more than one such move per set they will still often bypass, especially since switching in gives them 2 shots to get it right. The only things that really beat comatose spam outside of niche counters are Prankster Recover, Triage Recovery, Regenerator and faster scarves. Psychic terrain not being permanent doesn't stop comatose spam bypassing blocking priority. You don't have to run Deo-S; any fast pokemon will do, especially when equipped with a choice scarf. This means you can do silly things like use Comatose Ash-Greninja and block hazard removal+water shruiken or Comatose MMeta for most priority and only ever suffer if they have a scarfer with greater than 110 speed, which is pretty much only other comatose sets and contrary MRay.

Of course, this is far from saying it's unbeatable. Rapid Spin will beat fast taunt hazard leads, Defog slower spinblocking ones; only some kind of MGar lead would beat both, and you can stop it with offensive pressure or -ate/scrappy spin regardless. Once it starts, faster scarves, weather/terrain sweepers, repeated priority, and similar can still beat it, but it's still really stupid. Just look at what you suggested; you've just used 4 ability slots to get a good MU vs one playstyle- and it's just 4-3, since hazard setter+2 comatose takes up 3 slots, not to mention that your at a disadvantage due to them being able to dictate what you're abilities are, so if they bring something like TG MMY you have no Fur Coat Chansey to beat it.

 

[Whatwasthatnoise]

Magic Guard isn't all that helpful in my experience, as in most/many cases dragon tail and/or circle throw is superior. You're just getting chipped down more slowly, which also fucks over Magic Coat and Magic Bounce. I suppose you could run Magic Bounce Tina+a fairy, but then if they decide to run more than one such move per set they will still often bypass, especially since switching in gives them 2 shots to get it right. The only things that really beat comatose spam outside of niche counters are Prankster Recover, Triage Recovery, Regenerator and faster scarves. Psychic terrain not being permanent doesn't stop comatose spam bypassing blocking priority. You don't have to run Deo-S; any fast pokemon will do, especially when equipped with a choice scarf. This means you can do silly things like use Comatose Ash-Greninja and block hazard removal+water shruiken or Comatose MMeta for most priority and only ever suffer if they have a scarfer with greater than 110 speed, which is pretty much only other comatose sets and contrary MRay.

Of course, this is far from saying it's unbeatable. Rapid Spin will beat fast taunt hazard leads, Defog slower spinblocking ones; only some kind of MGar lead would beat both, and you can stop it with offensive pressure or -ate/scrappy spin regardless. Once it starts, faster scarves, weather/terrain sweepers, repeated priority, and similar can still beat it, but it's still really stupid. Just look at what you suggested; you've just used 4 ability slots to get a good MU vs one playstyle- and it's just 4-3, since hazard setter+2 comatose takes up 3 slots, not to mention that you're at a disadvantage due to them being able to dictate what you're abilities are, so if they bring TG MMY you have no Fur Coat Chansey to beat it.

Dragon Tail isn't completely accurate and misses out on Fairies, while Circle Throw misses out on Ghosts. Running two moves on the same set also means that they have a 50% chance to not hit something they could possibly beat anyway. I should also not for completeness's sake that Magic Bounce Mimikyu beats this strategy 100% of the time no matter the user, but that's stupid.

The thing with Psychic Terrain not being permanent means that the Comatose spam needs to take a turn or several off Whirlwinding to reset it, which is a turn or several where it's easy to kill something, remove hazards, something- and it might not be viable to make that switch in the first place. Neither player controls what Pokemon is phazed out, meaning that it's entirely possible for the tactic to screw over the phazer by dragging out some manner of priority right as the Terrain ends- and at most, you have six turns of using it before you have to switch out, which is far from unsurvivable.

As shown in the only replay of this working so far, the only way this is beating entire teams is if you let three layers of Spikes and rocks go up, when switching out is a perfectly viable possibility, especially when the hazard-layer in question is a Giratina that has quite clearly got no way of beating anything faster than it/immune to sleep via type or Safety Goggles. If you don't have those layers up, you have exactly sixteen turns of priority Whirlwind before you've got a completely useless Pokemon for the rest of the game.

Also, while 'weak to -ate fakespeed' isn't quite the death sentance it used to be it's still pretty bad. Metagross being your answer to 'Beats priority' also isn't great, because that's slow enough that weird stuff like weather-speed abilities like Swift Swim can outrun it fairly easily, and it also gets outrun by Deo-S if it's not positive max. Scarf Mewtwos aren't completely unknown (and I can see them getting more common in response to this) and those can both kill it pretty easily, and Scarf Contrary Mray is an old standard that isn't going anywhere.

Also, Magic Coat/Spiky Shield can really give things that run this a headache.

Personally, I'd be more worried about Comatose Sleep Talk Genesis Supernova but that's dependant on whether that actually works or not.

 

[Champion Leon]

Giratina-Origin @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Shadow Force
- Copycat
- Swords Dance/filler
- Hammer Arm

Shadow Force turn 1, finish move turn 2, copycat Shadow Force turn 3, finish turn 4, repeat. Dark Types are not immune to Prankster Shadow Force being the fact that they are not targeted during the charge turn.
Shadow Force also breaks Protect and its clones. Hammer Arm lowers speed to ensure Shadow Force goes last for the next turn Copycat, while hitting Dark/Normal types that are not hurt by Shadow Force. You can also Copy Cat Hammer Arm, since you likely go 2nd (i.e. a Normal type). If you are facing a Dark type be aware that they are immune to Prankster Copycat Hammer Arm.

Swords Dance can be replaced by a healing move, or whatever your team needs. Just ensure you use Hazards like Toxic Spikes so that you rack up damage during the turns you stall.

Spooky Plate prevents Knock-off or Trick from affecting your item, lowering the Base Power and overall being helpful.

Screw Harvest/Leppa!:

Deoxys-Attack @ Focus Sash
Ability: Comatose
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sleep Talk
- Genesis Supernova/ Any Z-Move
- Dragon Tail / Whirlwind / Copycat
- Nature Power

Comatose means you always can use Sleep Talk, letting you ignore the official move PP.
Nature Power becomes Psychic during Psychic Terrain and cannot be selected by Sleep Talk, giving it STAB and the Psychic Terrain (from Genesis Supernova) boost to the attack power. This means you have a 50% chance of selecting the Z-move Genesis Super Nova and a 50% chance of forcing a switch. You can also directly attack through using Genesis Supernova if you want a 100% chance of using it, and then play it safe with Nature Power.

Remember, Sleep Talk ignores - priority.

If you want a 100% chance, you can use Copycat to ensure Sleep Talk only chooses the Z-Move you want.

As a reminder Nature Power can turn into Energy Ball with Grassy Terrain, Thunderbolt with Electric Terrain, and Moonblast with Misty Terrain, or stay Tri-Attack with no Terrain, if you have an ally with your preferred Surge you can use Nature Power without relying on Genesis Supernova to be your Z-move.

 

[SuperSkylake]

Enjoy it while it lasts, apparently sleep talk is not supposed to call z moves. It can call whirlwind though.

 

[SadisticMystic]

Giratina-Origin @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Shadow Force
- Copycat
- Swords Dance/filler
- Hammer Arm

Shadow Force turn 1, finish move turn 2, copycat Shadow Force turn 3, finish turn 4, repeat. Dark Types are not immune to Prankster Shadow Force being the fact that they are not targeted during the charge turn.
Shadow Force also breaks Protect and its clones. Hammer Arm lowers speed to ensure Shadow Force goes last for the next turn Copycat, while hitting Dark/Normal types that are not hurt by Shadow Force. You can also Copy Cat Hammer Arm, since you likely go 2nd (i.e. a Normal type). If you are facing a Dark type be aware that they are immune to Prankster Copycat Hammer Arm.

Swords Dance can be replaced by a healing move, or whatever your team needs. Just ensure you use Hazards like Toxic Spikes so that you rack up damage during the turns you stall.

Spooky Plate prevents Knock-off or Trick from affecting your item, lowering the Base Power and overall being helpful.

Spooky Plate does not block Trick unless you have Multitype (or I guess if the opponent does, but it's not like anyone will actually use that ability in BH regardless). However, the fact that this is Giratina means you can run the Griseous Orb instead, which does block such moves, and it's mostly identical for all purposes on this set, unless you're trying to do something like Copycat Judgment in order to revenge Gengar.

 

[ARandomNoob]

I heard mention of imposter, here's something that will fuck over any imposter who comes in on it and is dumb enough to stay:
Perish Trap Megaggron.
Max HP and Defense, 4 Special defense because you care about literally nothing else.
Soundproof.
Lefties because passive recovery is your friend with this set.
Perish song/mean look/recover/protect.

Any imposter who sticks around can be mean looked in, and once they are, they're stuck in a PP war they cant win. Divide your PP waste evenly so as to not exhaust any of these moves, and after 24 or so turns, the imposter has struggled itself to death and you can move on. This set also hardcounters physical -ate users with obnoxious Defense, so there's that too.

Anyway. I was just asked why I wasnt using cosmoem for Heat Crash instead of primaldon and it made me kinda angry I've been locked for a month no thanks to school wifi trolls, because Cosmoem has shit for physical attack, doesnt get stab, and doesnt get much extra BP from heat Crash anyway compared to Don, since Don is literally one step down from Cosmoem/Celesteela on the weight ladder.

 

[ih8ih8sn0w]

I heard mention of imposter, here's something that will fuck over any imposter who comes in on it and is dumb enough to stay:
Perish Trap Megaggron.
Max HP and Defense, 4 Special defense because you care about literally nothing else.
Soundproof.
Lefties because passive recovery is your friend with this set.
Perish song/mean look/recover/protect.

Any imposter who sticks around can be mean looked in, and once they are, they're stuck in a PP war they cant win. Divide your PP waste evenly so as to not exhaust any of these moves, and after 24 or so turns, the imposter has struggled itself to death and you can move on. This set also hardcounters physical -ate users with obnoxious Defense, so there's that too.

Anyway. I was just asked why I wasnt using cosmoem for Heat Crash instead of primaldon and it made me kinda angry I've been locked for a month no thanks to school wifi trolls, because Cosmoem has shit for physical attack, doesnt get stab, and doesnt get much extra BP from heat Crash anyway compared to Don, since Don is literally one step down from Cosmoem/Celesteela on the weight ladder.

Any trapping wall that cannot kill itself for that matter will work for fucking over imposter tbh.

 

[motherlove]

Any trapping wall that cannot kill itself for that matter will work for fucking over imposter tbh.

Also worth noting that Anchor shot is infinitely better than mean look because of higher pp and not bounceable, even moreso on this set because it provides you with a semi reliable stab move.

Idk what that cosmoem meme is about thought, people should just stop mentionning cosmoem.

 

[Rumors]

Quantum Tesseract Mind, I wasn't defending the strategy nor saying its healthy, just offering solutions to its problem and explaining why it's not the highest priority to deal with. The four Pokemon I offered were a "break glass in case of Assist-don or Evasion-spam levels of cancerous" solution, not something to run now. Whatwasthatnoise covered everything else I'd want to say.

SadisticMystic Actually, Multitype Ghostceus is actually a viable Imposter-proof Q.Dance Sweeper. You sacrifice an ability in order to not get utterly ruined by Trick/Knock Off and also bluff being a Normal-type because its really uncommon set at best. Other Multitype sets are questionable still though.

 

[ARandomNoob]

Right Anchor shot exists now, that is actually a good option since you can deal damage that way, even if not much, the point is to tell bounce to screw off anyway. That actually makes the set a lot better. Also, me, stop forgetting G7 gives you new shit to work with and actually revise your G6 shit lmao.

Of course, there is also the obligatory mention of watching people just give up when they baton pass a buttload of boosts only to realize song passes too, making the recipient die instantaneously for high quality memes, regardless of the fact that its a good way to just stop boost passing in its tracks if played right.

 

[ElMustacho]

May I present you this?

Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Choice Specs
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psycho Boost
- Moongeist Beam/Overheat
- Trick/Secret Sword/Moonblast
- Volt Switch/Ice Beam

This set, under psychic terrain support, kills most opponents with Psycho Boost, sometimes even the sturdiest ones. At full health.

Calcs made considering Psychic Terrain.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Mewtwo-Mega-Y Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Zygarde-Complete: 570-672 (89.6 - 105.6%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mewtwo-Mega-Y Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Audino-Mega: 469-553 (114.3 - 134.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mewtwo-Mega-Y Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Giratina: 486-573 (96.4 - 113.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Mewtwo-Mega-Y Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Registeel: 414-486 (113.7 - 133.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

If Registeel can't take the hit, then aegislash can't neither.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Mewtwo-Mega-Y Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Celesteela: 546-642 (137.1 - 161.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mewtwo-Mega-Y Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Kyogre-Primal: 394-465 (97.5 - 115%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

Not even imposter chansey can switch very well on psycho boost.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Mewtwo-Mega-Y Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Mewtwo-Mega-Y: 436-514 (61.5 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Without eviolite it risks the OHKO.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Mewtwo-Mega-Y Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mewtwo-Mega-Y: 654-770 (92.3 - 108.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

Deinvesting your own spdef grants you something like 10% more damage, which ensures the KO without eviolite.
Our winner is Solgaleo, which double resists (and thus resists) Psychics moves; it avoids the OHKO with every move; Moongeist Beam becomes the best move.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Mewtwo-Mega-Y Moongeist Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Solgaleo: 378-446 (79 - 93.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

130 bp and super effectiveness is required to OHKO it, and is provided by Overheat.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mewtwo-Mega-Y Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Solgaleo: 492-580 (102.9 - 121.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Pratically 1 layer of spikes ensures the KO on anything not named chansey, blissey or solgaleo.

Dark type are obviously immune, but we have room for coverage.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mewtwo-Mega-Y Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gyarados-Mega: 278-328 (70.5 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I've never seen Gyarados invested in spdef, but moonblast 2OHKOs anyway.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mewtwo-Mega-Y Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Yveltal: 338-398 (74.1 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Ice beam is close enough btw.
Obviously mtar can't survive secret sword at all.

Greeninja can't switch on coverage moves, but outspeeds this mmy set.
Ice beam is there only for zygarde, as it OHKOs it no matter what.
Moongeist beam is nice coverage and helps with shedinja.

It easy to manage for the porpoise of imposter proofness, by selecting walls appropriate for the coverage moves and by considering that the imposter will have his spatk probably halved and will miss the extra, coveted power given by the specs.
I think it's possible to run adaptability to destroy stuff, but negating x2 resist is invaluable to me.

I'll now post results from the adaptability set.

Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Choice Specs
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overheat/Magma Storm
- Psycho Boost
- Fleur Cannon
- Moongeist beam/Secret Sword

The moveset is changed, you may notice how it is all about cutting your own spatk so that chansey can't countersweep.

I'm not posting changes on the result of Psycho Boost if Tinted Lens wasn't necessary, the rule of thumb is: if it was close to the OHKO, now it scores one. Maudino, Tina, Garde-C are vaporized on the spot. Unless they carry an assault vest I guess.
Pokemon not shown are assumed to run 252 HP / 252+ SpD.

This set requires a LOT more prediction; you should click Psycho Boost UNLESS you expect something that resist it AND is weak to your coverage OR is Shedinja.
There is a lot of stuff that can go wrong and you don't want that. Moongeist beam is worth only of shedinja. You can be double resisted only by psychic/steel and Overheat outdamages Moongeist Beam. If your opponent is a psychic type then Psycho Boost still is stronger (140*2(STAB)*1.5(Psychic Terrain)*0.5(Resist)>100*2(Super Effective)). If it's a steel type Overheat does the trick.

How Registeel lives the day? At 62.5% it doesn't.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Mewtwo-Mega-Y Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Registeel: 340-402 (93.4 - 110.4%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

Aegislash dies

252+ SpA Choice Specs Mewtwo-Mega-Y Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Aegislash-Shield: 340-402 (104.9 - 124%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Celesteela is not just bulky enough.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Mewtwo-Mega-Y Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Celesteela: 452-532 (113.5 - 133.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I forgot mgross before but he's not liking it too.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Mewtwo-Mega-Y Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Metagross-Mega: 428-504 (117.5 - 138.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

M-tar gets close enough to the OHKO.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Mewtwo-Mega-Y Fleur Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar-Mega: 402-474 (99.5 - 117.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

Obvioulsy SR ensures the OHKO on everything with a chance of survival listed here.

Now: what can reliably survive this?

Well because of our moveset the answer is "imposter chansey".

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Mewtwo-Mega-Y Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 291-343 (41.3 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

But in reality it also depends on you selecting the correct move. Selecting the wrong move might just tickle the opponent, and running an ability that patches a weakness isn't that rare. Scout the opponent before risking.

Other options:
Moongeist Beam kills shedinja, Overheat kills most stuff that resists Psycho Boost, but Magma Storm does both at the cost of being inaccurate and the fact that most OHKOs Overheat reaches are there by just a little, meaning that they will act on their turn (while dying at the end of it).
Secret Sword really helps with m-tar under the sand while wearing an assault vest. Added point it doesn't risk the miss and bypasses surprise flash fire stuff.
Volt switch may be used to maintain momentum, trick can be used to cripple walls but then mmy lose his reason to live.

What if chansey switches and survives?
First, does it have its spatk halved? If yes it's not a problem, your average, non dedicated wall can handle it. Registeel for example may lose 40% of his HP to Overheat, but it's just that.
If it doesn't then you have a problem. You'll need to predict the correct move or run a dedicated wall for this occasion, or else one of your mon will die. More if you play it bad.

How to use this set:
Safe switch it on something that can't outspeed mmy. Scout for scarf. Psychic Terrain stops priority and is nice both for defense and offence. Fire your nuke, hope for the best. Switch out if you get a bad matchup or if you have -2 spatk. Repeat when needed.

 

[BoCo365]

I don't know if this is broken (there is a ton of counterplay, and most good teams will have a way to beat this without trying to specifically prepare for it), and in all fairness you did just kinda sit there at the start and let tina get up all its layers, but I do think that this is kinda uncompetitive and not really healthy for the meta. I wouldn't mind a ban, but there are much more pressing things to deal with in the tier atm.

In future, post discussion on bans and stuff in the dedicated suspects and bans thread here

Yea I was playing aginst one and one shotted it with a V-Create Infernape

Magic Guard isn't all that helpful in my experience, as in most/many cases dragon tail and/or circle throw is superior. You're just getting chipped down more slowly, which also fucks over Magic Coat and Magic Bounce. I suppose you could run Magic Bounce Tina+a fairy, but then if they decide to run more than one such move per set they will still often bypass, especially since switching in gives them 2 shots to get it right. The only things that really beat comatose spam outside of niche counters are Prankster Recover, Triage Recovery, Regenerator and faster scarves. Psychic terrain not being permanent doesn't stop comatose spam bypassing blocking priority. You don't have to run Deo-S; any fast pokemon will do, especially when equipped with a choice scarf. This means you can do silly things like use Comatose Ash-Greninja and block hazard removal+water shruiken or Comatose MMeta for most priority and only ever suffer if they have a scarfer with greater than 110 speed, which is pretty much only other comatose sets and contrary MRay.

Of course, this is far from saying it's unbeatable. Rapid Spin will beat fast taunt hazard leads, Defog slower spinblocking ones; only some kind of MGar lead would beat both, and you can stop it with offensive pressure or -ate/scrappy spin regardless. Once it starts, faster scarves, weather/terrain sweepers, repeated priority, and similar can still beat it, but it's still really stupid. Just look at what you suggested; you've just used 4 ability slots to get a good MU vs one playstyle- and it's just 4-3, since hazard setter+2 comatose takes up 3 slots, not to mention that your at a disadvantage due to them being able to dictate what you're abilities are, so if they bring something like TG MMY you have no Fur Coat Chansey to beat it.

Magic guard, in my experience, is a fun ability to run on Archeops or Ho-oh. Couple that with life orb and Head Smash/Flare Blitz and Brave Bird and you can sweep. Here's the Archeops set
Redemption (Archeops) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Head Smash
- Brave Bird
- Recover
- Wood Hammer/Shift Gear

 

[Rumors]

What makes you run Archeops over Mega-Dactyl though? I mean...

Archeops BST: 75/140/65/112/65/110

Mega-Dactyl BST: 80/135/85/70/95/150

Is there a Pokemon you absolutely need to KO in one or two hits that Archeops can nail but Aerodactyl with the same set can't? Unless you're running special Archeops, which is pretty gimmicky as is, there's no other reason to use Archeops over Aerodactyl, as much as I like Archeops and get nostalgia from Killerchops sets.

 

[BoCo365]

Yea it is pretty much nostalgia. But I think that the Magic Huard Ho-oh really saves it because n more ways in one, the most ovbious being no sr damage.

 

[GmU pokeboss9]

Hello guys

My first post about Gen 7;
I have the feeling they first did change stuff based on other metagames, as alot of those changes affect important BH mechanics.


Gale Wings +1 only on full HP,
= weakens stuff like Aeroblast, Brave Bird, Air Slash

Prankster nerf, no effect on dark types
= Dark is ultimate set upper type now

Ate nerf, 1,2x instead 1,3x, added electric -ate
= hate it or love it

Set Upping
= weaker, more raw Power, Sashs and new counter (Spectral Punch)

Stall
= predictionbased, moves are more stronger across different types

Imposter
= stronger, alot more upfront matchups, less Imposterproofing

Water Bubble 2x Water move power, immume to burn and fire resist
= such an effect can make every type offensivly viable

Latitwins Soul Dew does not gives SpA/SpD Boost to Mega forms
= wont see much use

Shedinja
= a lot less useful but more dangerous

Revengekilling + an ability gives Healinging moves +3 priority, includes Oblivion Wing
= Revengekilling = sweeping

Indirect play
= Less Status, more hazards

Trapping
= alot of meta pokes can be trapped now

Z- Moves
= ok

 

[chartung17]

Why are Wonder Guard Shedinja/Huge Power Azumarill/etc. banned? Obviously we can't let everyone have those abilities, but why keep them from the Pokémon that have them naturally?

 

[The Immortal]

Why are Wonder Guard Shedinja/Huge Power Azumarill/etc. banned? Obviously we can't let everyone have those abilities, but why keep them from the Pokémon that have them naturally?

This is Hackmons; what you get naturally is irrelevant. There's no need to add complex exceptions like that.

 

[Rumors]

This is Hackmons; what you get naturally is irrelevant. There's no need to add complex exceptions like that.

Though there is the double standard of stuff like Gengarite Gengar having access to Shadow Tag despite the bans. If that doesn't qualify as a complex exception then I dunno what does.