BH Balanced Hackmons

[SuperSkylake]

I actually want to talk about another move that deserves some hard discussion, which is trick. Trick is great for crippling checks permanently with just a single prediction at little cost to the user. With the removal of z crystals, mega stones and primal orbs, trick is easier than ever to pull off. Almost every wall in the game is unable to avoid trick, the only exceptions being grysius Giratina and the never seen Rusted Shield Zamac. I will argue that tricking a wall is often better than outright KOing it because the tricker doesn't lose momentum like he normally would if he had just KOed the wall, and the wall is forced to provide free turns to the opponent if it ever comes back in as well. Exacerbating the problem is that Eternatus, the most common Trick user and probably the best, can KO non Ice Scales Giratina from full without a boosting ability, meaning its Orb set can't switch in safely at all. If Zacian-C were to be banned, that would make Trick Eternatus even more unbearable, because Zacian-C was probably the only real switchin to the trick set currently available, immune to both STABs and Trick. Additionally, Eternatus is unable to be poisoned, so you can't even switch a Poison Heal user into it. Eternatus is not the only mon that can successfully use Trick, of course. Specs Xerneas is an underrated user of the move that can easily cripple Ho-Oh or Zamac, though it does miss out on the snowball effect of Metronome, though it does get to take Ho-Oh's boots or Leftovers a lot of the time meaning it can stay alive way longer. Palkia's Rain sweeping sets can employ Trick to deal with Tapu Fini on the switch.

On the flipside, there are a few disadvantages to Trick and some countermeasures against it, and I will detail why they are not too worrisome downsides and inadequate countermeasures. A Protect move user makes Choice Item use a liability in many cases, and this includes Trick. The problem with this argument is that many teams' only Trick absorber is Zacian-C right now, and the protect move is also highly telegraphed after the first use meaning a good opponent can gain momentum by doubling as the Protect user wastes PP. Another is that Trick often clashes with item removal moves like Knock Off, though, this isn't a huge downside since Tricked walls are super easy to KO. Users of the item Mail are immune to Trick, but Mail is completely useless otherwise, and can be knocked off meaning that the mon can be tricked later.

 

[a loser]

The BH Council has unanimously voted to Quick Ban the Rusted Sword item from Balanced Hackmons, which means Zacian-Crowned can no longer be accessed.

Zacian-C has been the face of Gen 8 BH since the beginning of the generation. Its outstanding stats and typing have kept as one of the top threats available throughout every DLC release and metagame shift from bans and such. Despite going through changes of its own and being restricted to one held item and ability, Zac-C remains a centralizing force in the metagame and has a huge impact on teambuilding.

Zac-C is still the best offensive Pokemon available and despite its restrictions, it has a ton of versatility and can effectively run a variety of sets like All-Out-Attacker, 3-attacks recovery/utility, 2-attacks utility, Imprison/Transform trapper, and more. Each of these sets are checked by entirely different Pokemon, which leads to unfortunate matchups that are lost in the teambuilder because you prepped for the wrong Zac-C set or even the wrong coverage move. Even teams with answers to specific Zac-C sets can still be outdone, as just the other day I used Anchor Imprison Zac-C with Soft-Boiled that happened to prevent a Prankster Tapu Fini from recovering its health. Zac-C's power, Speed, versatility, and impact on every other offensive threat in the metagame has lead the council to believe it is too restricting and centralizing and must be removed.

Tagging Kris to implement the Rusted Sword ban, please!

 

[Catzzadilla]

I'm a newcomer to Gen 8 Balanced Hackmons, but from what I've experienced, it's very very stall based. Things like trapping Zygarde-Complete, Poison Heal Giratina-Origin and Zamazenta-Crown are everywhere, and I feel like the meta is forced to play against that, usually with one of those three. It doesn't make it fun for a newcomer to join in. I don't have any problems with Imposter, though.

Of course, I lack experience in the metagame so I might be missing something but it's just my opinion.

 

[Lunatic Hai]

I'm a newcomer to Gen 8 Balanced Hackmons, but from what I've experienced, it's very very stall based. Things like trapping Zygarde-Complete, Poison Heal Giratina-Origin and Zamazenta-Crown are everywhere, and I feel like the meta is forced to play against that, usually with one of those three. It doesn't make it fun for a newcomer to join in. I don't have any problems with Imposter, though.

Of course, I lack experience in the metagame so I might be missing something but it's just my opinion.

Stall is definitely a strong playstyle, but I don't think I'd say the meta is very stall oriented atm. Imprison Transform Zacian-C punished most stall teams hard since the only real counters were ghosts + shed shell (easily knocked off). Yes, Zacc is gone now, but it being the most oppressive offensive mon means that with it gone, there's now a much wider array of things to deal with at once, namely fat special dragons like Eternatus.

Trapping definitely isn't as strong now without Zacian, since it isn't backed up by unmatched speed, fat defensive typing, and the possibility of a myriad of other offensive sets that you autolose to off a wrong prediction. Zygarde is threatened more easily than Zacian, for example, and can't outspeed plenty of other walls, much less offensive mons.

PH Tina is really nice, but PH offensive mons in general are really nice. I'll assume you meant Giratina-Altered since that's the more defense-oriented Gira form, though, and in that case, that mon runs plenty of other sets that make PH by no means dominant. They're all strong in their own ways but are scared shitless by some pretty common attacking types, namely Ice/Dragon/Fairy.

Zam is in a similar state, but as several people pointed out earlier, it's not a very active pokemon and often gives up momentum for the sake of not dropping dead immediately, which can be detrimental in its own right. It's got a lot of versatility, yes, but it isn't hard to figure out what set it's running after even a turn or two, and it isn't threatening enough in most cases to keep you from getting that crucial information.

BH has a lot of really stupid offensive sets on the ladder, but it has an equal number of legitimately fun, interesting, and solid ones, too. If you need any recommendations, I'm sure most people here would be willing to offer some, but off the top of my head, here's some.

Xerneas: Metronome Boomburst + Rapid Spin, Poison Heal, Specs Pixilate
Eternatus: Mold Breaker, Corrosion, Sheer Force, Dragon's Maw, etc
Palkia: Swift Swim if you like rain, adaptability, etc.
Reshiram: Poison Heal, Regenerator (kinda defensive but still has offensive pressure), Dland
Regigigas: Poison Heal is tried and true
Groudon: Mold breaker band, shift gear setup, offensive support with rocks, etc
Kyu-B: Mold Breaker is nutty but really hard to improof lmao
Kartana: Steelworker, Tinted Lens

These are just a few examples for a few mons, but trust me, there's a lot of choices for blasting through defensive mons in this meta.

 

[Catzzadilla]

Thanks for replying! I'll try to use a couple of the mons you mentionned!

Also, curious, any reason why mold breaker over teravolt when you listed kyurem-b? lol

 

[Lunatic Hai]

Thanks for replying! I'll try to use a couple of the mons you mentionned!

Also, curious, any reason why mold breaker over teravolt when you listed kyurem-b? lol

No prob. Mold breaker is functionally identical to teravolt/turboblaze, so they're just collectively acknowledged as mold breaker style abilities. Same goes for Sunsteel Strike, Photon Geyser, and Moongeist Beam; they ignore abilities, so they're often referred to as moldy moves.

 

[a loser]

Things seem a little too quite here so I'm gonna give a quick update on the metagame and the council's plans.

Say hello to the new faces of Balanced Hackmons. Eternatus, Xerneas, Zama-C, and Groudon are some of the best available mons thanks to their offensive and defensive capabilities, excellent BST, and good typings. There will be few reasons not to use one or more of these mons on your teams since each of them can fill various roles.

Etern's offensive sets will be in the spotlight here with Dragon's Maw and Adaptability both being very strong and other options like Mold Breaker, Final Gambit, and multiple others being able to put in work. Xern is still able to spam Boomburst like before but is a little more free to do so without Zac-C around, meaning it might not be locked down to Rapid Spin quite as much. It can also still run very effective Poison Heal sets with things like Thunder Cage for Ho-Oh and its great stats allow it to do various other things as well. Zama-C notably checks and pressures both Etern and Xern, depending on the ability (and Zama-C can run basically any ability and be viable), which makes it a very useful mon to have. But this also means that Etern and Xern will try their hardest to get rid of Zama-C and they can do this with things like Gambit, luring with coverage like Blue Flare and V-create, or depending on teammates. One good teammate would be Groudon, who is able to offensively pressure Eternatus and Zama-C and can even beat Xern 1v1 depending on the sets and how things play out. Groudon can use Choice items or setup moves and has a handful of abilities to choose from too.

As for the council, we are each currently pretty busy with building/playing/managing in OMPL and most are in the BH Seasonal Tour too. So BH is definitely on the brain for all of us, but it isn't exactly the best time for us to share all of our new BH strategies considering most of us will face off against one another.

With that being said, we are definitely aware that the sample teams and viability rankings are in need of a big update to reflect the metagame now that Zac-C is gone. These will be our top priorities once these tournaments are done. This will also give us time to reflect on the state of the still new BH metagame, since OMPL and the BH Seasonal will give us a good idea of how things are looking. This will also help us know if any tiering decisions are required to make the meta the best it can be.

In the meantime, we'd love to see what sets, ideas, and strategies you all have been using since Zac-C got fully banned. There are other mons that could be on the rise too like Ho-Oh, Kartana, and Solgaleo since they can help deal with four mons shown above.

 

[Ace Roll]

Things seem a little too quite here so I'm gonna give a quick update on the metagame and the council's plans.

Say hello to the new faces of Balanced Hackmons. Eternatus, Xerneas, Zama-C, and Groudon are some of the best available mons thanks to their offensive and defensive capabilities, excellent BST, and good typings. There will be few reasons not to use one or more of these mons on your teams since each of them can fill various roles.

Etern's offensive sets will be in the spotlight here with Dragon's Maw and Adaptability both being very strong and other options like Mold Breaker, Final Gambit, and multiple others being able to put in work. Xern is still able to spam Boomburst like before but is a little more free to do so without Zac-C around, meaning it might not be locked down to Rapid Spin quite as much. It can also still run very effective Poison Heal sets with things like Thunder Cage for Ho-Oh and its great stats allow it to do various other things as well. Zama-C notably checks and pressures both Etern and Xern, depending on the ability (and Zama-C can run basically any ability and be viable), which makes it a very useful mon to have. But this also means that Etern and Xern will try their hardest to get rid of Zama-C and they can do this with things like Gambit, luring with coverage like Blue Flare and V-create, or depending on teammates. One good teammate would be Groudon, who is able to offensively pressure Eternatus and Zama-C and can even beat Xern 1v1 depending on the sets and how things play out. Groudon can use Choice items or setup moves and has a handful of abilities to choose from too.

Thought I might give a reply as a daily lobby grinder since there is not much being said and quite a lot of sets being overlocked:

Eternatus @ Scope Lens
Ability: Teravolt / sniper
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Focus Energy
- Draco Meteor
- Overheat
- Sludge Bomb

Pretty hard to counter teravolt version. Really nasty under sub.


No retreat setup sweepers + etern check:

Necrozma-Dawn-Wings @ Focus Sash
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
IVs: 0 SpD
- Astral Barrage
- Stored Power
- No Retreat
- Glacial Lance

95.4 - 112.5% to kill imposter chansey with eviolite at full. Very hard to play against, almost always gets some sort of pressure from switches or damage itself. Notable checks: +def nature yveltal, umbreon, ttar, regenvest sets and sand teams.

Blacephalon @ Focus Sash
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
IVs: 0 SpD
- No Retreat
- Astral Barrage
- Strength Sap
- V-create

Both of these are great at dealing with every eternatus set aswell.


Speaking of other checks, been using dual regen mons to counter everything listed above as well as other etern sets and xerneas, works also really well vs hazard, stall and balance teams:

Dialga @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature (with blacep need relaxed nature and iv its attack a bit down ~ 16.)
IVs: 0 Spe
- Core Enforcer/doom desire
- Spectral Thief
- Knock Off
- Flip turn/Volt Switch

Reshiram @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Spe
- Core Enforcer
- Searing Shot/Blue flare
- Court Change
- Volt Switch



Zygarde-Complete @ Heavy-Duty Boots/Safety goggles
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Core Enforcer/worry seed
- Spectral Thief
- Parting Shot
- Aromatherapy

Solgaleo @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin
- U-turn/flip turn
- Sunsteel/filler

Many more pairs that works, usually the core is: 1 fast, 1 slow, 1 more specially defensive oriented, 1 more physically and preferably different typing.


Now to the main guy:

Groudon @ Metronome
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Precipice Blades
- Strength Sap/recover
- Rapid spin

Groudon @ Metronome
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Precipice Blades
- Strength Sap/recover
- Glacial Lance/Stealth rocks/filler

Most people probably never think of metronome over soft sand, but it works and can be quite interesting vs common bulky checks.

Should also mention this guy:

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Thousand Arrows/glacial lance
- Dragon Ascent
- Trick/filler

Deals with Groudons weaknesses, flying also hits whole metagame for nice and neutral damage.


speaking of flying type, another excellent late game sweeper:

Rayquaza @ Sharp Beak
Ability: Aerilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Rash/Naive Nature
- Boomburst
- Rapid Spin
- Extreme Speed
- Strength Sap

It is all in the item, sharp beak lets it 2 hit KO almost entire metagame:
252+ SpA Sharp Beak Aerilate Rayquaza Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ho-Oh: 213-252 (51.2 - 60.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[Onyx Onix 7]

Unfortunately my team ended up losing it's position in the playoffs for the OMPL. However, now that's over I'd like to heed a Losr's request and submit a sample team: https://pokepast.es/69cb2f03cc9d2940.
Synopsis:
As with any defensive strategy you want to minimize any risky plays. Usually with this set-up it's best to lead with Tapu Fini and use its pivoting to trigger all of the Toxic Orbs early. Once all three Toxic Orbs have been cracked the focus of the team shifts to whittling down the opponents teammate. It's almost alway a good idea to use status moves such as Will-O-Wisp and Lava Plume liberally to spread burns across opposing teams, as that makes it easier to win in the long run. When in doubt always, click the protection moves if you can, since that helps scout out potential threats such as trapping while also wasting the opposing player's pps. Once you've gotten into later stages of the game and have scoute most of the foes lineup, you can begin to abuse pressure points in the opponent's team such as weak hazard control or softness to Lunala's powerful hexes. Once you've found the key pressure points you want to abuse to close the game, use them to close out the game.
Specifics:
* The team's flagship, Water Gun, is used instead of Scald on Tapu Fini for it's higher pp
* Court Change and Rapid Spin are used on Poison Heal users to limit Imposter Chansey's ability to abuse them
* Dusclops has excellent neutral bulk so against odd-ball threats like Groudon always go to Dusclops
* Umbreon Imposter proofs both Dusclops and Lunala so if it turns into any of those mons it's almost always a good choice to switch to Umbreon
Proof of Efficacy:

My alt that I used to test this team is the one seated in first place. The gxe is misleadingly low since I used this alt in many of the rounds for the OMPL to test other strats, many of which were unsuccessful. With this team however, I 've only lost a total of 1 game on ladder, and that team was specifically designed to C-Team Stall.

Weaknesses:
* Strong Hazard Control that doesn't hinge on Xerneas
* Poison Heal Imposters
* Poison Heal abusers
* Kartana

Disclaimer: The use of Water Gun on Tapu Fini is not recommended the BH council, use at your own risk. For a more effective alternative use Scald which is significantly less useless due to having a higher base power and a decent burn chance.

 

[cityscapes]

we need samples!!!!


https://pokepast.es/1e6a90fb94c55305
name: LIL KISS
description: balance featuring fear togekiss + simple eternatus
how to use: remove ghosts and/or win the game with regi and etern. hold off opposing offensive initiative with ogre zamac cress or by slow pivoting into lil kiss. kiss can function as a win condition if nothing is left to kill it, or in the midgame to force your opponent to play around it. keep in mind the different ways kiss can die including helmet (reason for corrosive gas), fake out, status, mold breaker, knock off, and leech seed misses; scout for these if needed. use etern aggressively against poison heal giratina and stealth rock teams, as these can limit your mobility.
effectiveness: peaked #2 on ladder (alt is ddlc in real life), beating good players like qt and idea and winning a seasonal game vs loser.


https://pokepast.es/a1877a09e9178d0a
name: Beneath the Soil that Holds Magical Power
description: bulky offense featuring triage celesteela + quiver dance pixilate xerneas
how to use: against bulkier teams, bring in groudon to spread poisons and get up rocks so xern and celesteela can win. against more aggressive teams groudon can be sacrificed if it isn’t needed to contain a boomburst user. chansey imposter-proofs steela and xern because it doesn’t transform against opposing imposter. use celesteela to toxic important pokemon like giratina so it can do work even if it isn’t instantly winning. imposter is good, spam it a bunch and never lose. palkia beats most physical attackers.
effectiveness: peaked #1 pre zacc ban (alt is masterspark420), won a bunch of tournament games, probably still solid. watch out for opposing defensive steela.

 

[Lunatic Hai]

Disclaimer: I haven't laddered in 94 years but the teams are pretty simple and intuitive to pilot so I'm sure randos can pick them up and do decently well on ladder if they want

name: #sigma grindset
description: Funny purple lizard goes boom while Bambi cleans up the mess
how to use: Gearna handles most Etern variants (EP is less common than flare but still a threat, moldy is an issue but you can also run psea, gambit just blows things up anyway). It also frees Xern up to not run Metrosexual and go for hazards. Etern serves as the more immediate breaker and is a nice lure for Zam since it can cripple it with trick, with Xern often being the one to close things out via setup/hazards. Ho-Oh provides bounce and some utility with koff + slowing/possible parahax or it can run funny vc
effectiveness: epic SSNL team that beat everyone but yolk because I was too stubborn to actually change my moves lol
weaknesses:
- The version I used in SSNL had issues w scales Zam and bounce regi, but this gets mitigated by trick Etern
- you have no physical offense unless hooh decides to become funny snowman with wings
- koff purify is always annoying with a team that relies on pheal as a status/koff absorber
side note: someone change the healing moves because I made half of them shore up lmao

name: ez money 2k15
description: don semistall
how to use: Pretty simple, use hazards + burn/toxic damage to whittle things down into moldy arrows range. Walls either threaten with some kind of crippling via trapping/status or have pivot so they don't lose you too much momentum
effectiveness: Did pretty well in SSNL, won like 3/4 games that I used this team in against decent players like Skylake.
weaknesses:
- don's your only breaker lmao
- PH Tina matchup sucks ngl, you can mitigate this + add more offensive pressure with a lance/setup don set but at that point you're likely gonna give up toxic and lose a lot of pressure you'd otherwise have had vs prank tina
- careful about poisoning imp depending on the matchup; PH fini is hard imp bait if you do toxic it so it can be better to fish for scald burns.


Aside: Onyx Onix team bad and poorly optimized as Ember is objectively superior to both Scald and Water Gun in that it has more PP and doesn't give up burn fishing, respectively. Onyx is clearly not in the sigma dodecillionaire grindset and I for one am very disappointed in him

 

[quojova]

name: double moldy bulky offense (name wip)
https://pokepast.es/f27347008e4e6ef9
description: Magearna beats almost every etern, which is the only immediately fast and bulky breaker in the game so in theory as an offensive team you have in-game counterplay to beat everything else. The double mold breaker core of etern+don+hazards beats everything long term if allowed to run rampant (both sets shamelessly taken from top tier players). Gira checks gigas and spreads spikes very effectively due to clicking timid worry seed on neutral speed xern (click baneful on espeed). Imp helps with a lot of sets that range from rend xern to switching into predicted palk water move and also acts as the primary setup check when hitting the thing in front of you fails. Xern on this team is more of a utility set that won't start breaking immediately but its priority and hazard removal are super valuable for maintaining a flexible gameplan. Finally the moves on mag are chosen to not be dead weight. Doom desire can create a lot of problems for your opponent and knock punishes them bringing in their strongest breaker in response as well as being very annoying for hooh.

threats:
-court change; not a huge problem but since you have no real court changer of your own and a lot of your gameplan rests on hazards you will need to really keep it in mind when playing against it. The options are: pp stall court change with imp if they are luckily not trapping, make the court changer have a hard time coming in, and have a very big punish to court if they do get it like hard etern.
-tcage spore ph xern; #1 threat and you will need to position very carefully to beat it. Click hard worry seed on it, aggressively doom desire as it comes in, fodder something to sleep and go imp, there's really no simple answer

effectiveness: It's done very well for me on ladder + vs good players and even the losses just feel like user error

replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1384126348
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1382847718 (me vs city, ends in a loss but shows how the tcage spore xern matchup is at least playable because if I click dd on turn 30 which is my best play I'm probably winning)

 

[opfish]

https://pokepast.es/1e86d63e254b6762

Team name: Double Imposter Stall

Team Description: Double Imposter stall or balance whatever you like. Zamazenta-C can beat most of the Eternatus sets such as D-Maw DE, Adap,etc… Darm-Z can be a check for stuffs like Zama-C(except P-Sea) ,Xerneas, Regigias(+1 252+ Atk Regigigas Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Darmanitan-Zen: 153-181 (36.9 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO, then use topsy turvy). It can also spread burn. Xern can free switch to almost all Giratina and set hazard, Thunder Cage can also trap Ho-oh and kill it, you may change Spikes to Spore if you want to be more offensive. Toxic Orb Imposter can beat most PH users, esp for those self-improof PH Pkms. Shed Shell Imposter is super annoying, click 20 moves and run away for those Pkms which was supposed to self-improof with trap move. I used this and another(that team doesn’t work now) team to peaked at top4 with 90.3 GXE. You may change Chansey Shed Shell to Eviolite if you want more Defense stat and Blissey T Orb to Choice Scarf if you don’t want any speed tie.

Weaknesses: Palkia, Groudon, Moldy Etern with BF or EP

Replays(I didn’t save many replays, so I just got these):

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1383511829

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1353873767

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1345910538

 

[blackster0915]

https://pokepast.es/5f743719ba8ce1ae

Team name: sussy anti-meta team

Team description: Balance, Anti-meta, cringe, if you want a team which fulfills all this, use this one. We got the meta xerneas which you all know and love, but with a twist because our hooh is just built different and well trained in obliterating rainbow deers. As our 2nd meta abuser we got purple lizard which basically can sweep round 2 if you let him. But syke, we have a perfect counter for that aswell, how convenient. Jokes aside, the last 2 teammates are actually built smart. Our doggo can cripple enemy walls or either fire one stronk anchor shot/tkick, i prefer crippling tho. Hes our FC because every team needs one or you gonna lose. Its also our improof for our last member, the fatty ancient golem. But we dont play the standard normie set. Real men go coil because its just better. Max spdef nature to be tanky on both sides. And if you ask yourself: Where is your imposter? Where is your Ice Scales? Where is your momentum? Where is your hazard control?
I tell you something: Playing meta is cringe, we play anti-meta here.

Weaknesses:
- enemy purple lizard if it runs earth power
- palkia if your lizard is dead or if it runs swift swim/scarf w.e (palkia is cringe btw, pls remove from game)
- Imptrap (do people still run this sh*t lmao)

Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1386386122 (purple lizard go boom)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1386390836-3bff54w3z6hzr708vp450lljkwlyfhtpw (purple lizard loses to magearna and enemy ragequits)

Edit: got a wrong move on our doggo, fixed

 

[SuperSkylake]

submitting this as a sample. It's a bulky offensive team that's meant to tank hits and then hit back hard as compared to bringing in breakers or setup sweepers, or walling everything.

import

Eternatus @ Black Sludge
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Wave
- Shore Up
- Blue Flare
- Topsy-Turvy / Core Enforcer

Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Brave Nature
- Core Enforcer
- Spikes
- Spectral Thief
- Recover

Zamazenta-Crowned @ Expert Belt
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Low Kick
- Anchor Shot
- Recover
- Poison Fang

break it (Lugia) @ Shed Shell
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Spectral Thief
- Knock Off
- Stealth Rock
- Leech Seed

Zacian @ Flame Orb
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Facade
- Rapid Spin
- Shore Up
- Psycho Shift

Registeel @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Parting Shot
- Haze
- Recover
- Heal Bell

* Against many teams you can just get your hazards up and then safely bring in Zacian to start putting on pressure.
* Use Lugia and Registeel to pivot your checks in against breakers. For example against Kartana or Groudon. Use Parting shot on registeel to scout Poison heal sweepers like Gigas and Xerneas. If they aren't running fire coverage, Zamac can quickly get rid of them (252+ Atk Tough Claws Zamazenta-Crowned Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Regigigas: 414-488 (97.6 - 115%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO, 252+ Atk Expert Belt Tough Claws Zamazenta-Crowned Anchor Shot vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Xerneas: 367-434 (80.4 - 95.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO). Hide Heal Bell until you need to use it, which often isn't as soon as they status a single mon.
* Enemey Giratina can be really annoying. If they are prank or fc, you have to make them feel safe with zamac and then Poison Fang them when they are convinced. If it's PH Giratina, then Zacian Facade kills it. Do not burn Giratina.
* Eternatus lets you force in FF Steels, which as a rule are super passive, letting you bring in Giratina to set up Spikes or Lugia to set rocks. It can also hit stuff with Blue Flare and poison it with Sludge Bomb, and synergizes with Zamac's Poison Fang for that reason. Topsy Turvy lets it backup check PH Xern, such as the Strength Sap versions that Zamac can't. Don't forget that you can bluff having Dragon coverage, or even run it over Topsy Turvy if you want.
* Giratina-O is a more offensive version of FC Giratina which can do a nice chunk to enemy support mons, such as Ho-Oh (37-43%), Xerneas (27-33%) and Magearna (30-36%). It also hits the big dragons hard, giving it many chances to set Spikes. It still takes Ph Regigigas pretty well (+1 Glacial Lance does about 65%) but must be afraid of Spore and Knock Off. You will have to cycle between Registeel and Etern to improof it, parting shotting when you think the imposter will set up a spike so that Core Enforcer doesn't hurt too bad. They often switch out because they don't want to be poisoned. Do not switch Giratina-O's item or it's just a less bulky version of normal Giratina which sucks because you really want that extra damage.

replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1386951776
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1386864674
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1385721532 (earlier version of the team with dusklops over Lugia and Kyub over Zacian. It operates pretty much the same though)

 

[a loser]

Thanks for all the sample submissions so far! Teams are looking good but we could use some more still. I've got a couple things to cover here but will start out by submitting a team for samples of my own.

Team Name: Good News
Description: Balanced offense with Volt/Turn core and a non-passive defensive core
Pokepaste: https://pokepast.es/cfea5be1c7da93a0
How to use: Chip and break through opposing walls with Volt/Turn Eternatus and Groudon. Eternatus and Groudon complement each other well, with Eternatus taking on Fur Coat Dragon-types and Groudon taking on Ice Scales and Flash Fire Steel-types. Zama-C Imposter-proofs Eternatus and checks opposing Eternatus while Lunala improofs Groudon and also checks opposing physical threats like Kyurem-B, Groudon, and Regigigas. Ho-Oh keeps hazards off the field and hits pretty hard with its STAB moves. Tapu Fini checks setup sweepers with Haze and can keep momentum up with Flip Turn.
Weaknesses: Certain Xerneas variants like Poison Heal Spore and Pixilate Fishious Rend can be annoying for the team, but can be handled with Eternatus, Ho-Oh, and Zama-C mainly and Groudon also 2HKOes it. Opposing Eternatus are sometimes troublesome, especially if using Ground-type coverage or even Specs as it powers through Zama-C. Leftovers on Zama-C is an option over Shed Shell to help take hits better and Ice Scales works too but burns from Imposter Eternatus are lame.
Effectiveness: It won an OMPL game for me and has done alright on the ladder. It has enough tools to hold up against most things the ladder throws at you.



Next, I'd like to talk about a couple things that have been coming up in the council chat lately.

Court Change and Heavy-Duty Boots
These two have completely changed the way entry hazards are handled. In the past, Defog was the most reliable method of managing hazards with Rapid Spin being used much less. Since this generation started, Defog is rarely seen, Rapid Spin is extremely common (it did get a nice buff too), and Heavy-Duty Boots (HDB) and Court Change are seen on almost every team. Boots have completely changed the viability of defensive mons like Ho-Oh, Darmanitan-Z, Golisopod, and others since they no longer have to worry about Stealth Rock.

I wouldn't say that either of these elements are necessarily broken or unhealthy on their own, or on paper, but when used together on teams it can create a pretty stale environment where it is difficult to make progress with entry hazards. Something like Pixilate Xerneas with HDB, Rapid Spin, and Boomburst just completely invalidates hazards and is extremely threatening with its powerful STAB moves. Similar sets, like Prankster Zama-C with HDB, Court Change, and Anchor Shot can freely come in on entry hazards, swap them around, and trap opposing mons too. Neither of these sets are problematic really, but their ability to deny progress and avoid major chip damage can make them extremely difficult to break through.

Sleep
Sleep, mainly via Spore and Lovely Kiss, has been on the rise lately. These sleep setting moves are mainly seen on breakers like Poison Heal Xerneas and Regigigas as well as Eternatus and various Triage users like Rayquaza and Yveltal. The Sleep Clause does help combat sleep users, but sacrificing a teammate to be put to sleep so that you can check the opposing threat is not always as easy as it seems. Guys like PH Xerneas can just trap you with Thunder Cage or Magma Storm, leaving you no choice but to pray for good sleep turns. Even if you can switch out, like against Regigigas or a Triage user, nothing is stopping the attacker from bluffing the sleep move and just attacking you.

This is just scratching the surface on each of these topics, but I'd love to see some opinions from the playerbase on these things. Have you found that Court Change, Heavy-Duty Boots, and/or Sleep have been problematic for the meta?

 

[XxLazzerpenguinxX]

I haven't had much time to make a well written post, so I think I'll just do a brain dump instead and hopefully it'll be cohesive enough to follow along. Sorry if anything I say is confusing / not well written.

I think right now it's really hard to build balance teams that are meant to counter the majority of the mons in the meta, while still having proactive offensive counter play. To me this is mainly attributed to Eternatus' and Xerneas' presence in the metagame and their diversibility to pick and choose kind of who they beat. When looking at Eternatus, there's the Simple, Moldy, Adapt, and Dragon's Maw sets. Simple with Blue Flare has the ability to absolutely own many scales mons, but gets beat by some Prim Sea users with topsy turvy (if they're the offensive Fishious Rend Zama-C sets, then you can beat them with Core Enforcer). To counter this however, the simple sets can run Earth Power which just totally invalidates them. This means that Prim Sea Celesteela is probably the best counter, however it can't switch in on +3 Core Enforcer which is unfortunate at times. Simple Etern also beats most RegenVest pokemon as you simply boost too quickly and they can't sustain a high enough HP to beat them 1v1. Mold Breaker Etern can invalidate Ice Scales and Flash Fire pokemon and is able to also able to beat most prankster pokemon 1v1 as Sludge Bomb + Core Enforcer spells the end for them most of the time (Simple sets are also able to do this). Mold Breaker sets however, lack the immediate threat that Simple Etern or Adapt Etern have and can be checked by RegenVest pokemon more easily, or a mon can survive a big chunk of damage to cripple it with a possible nuzzle. Adaptability sets, even though they've fallen in popularity, are still extremely strong posing a serious offensive threat immediately which have very few switch-ins. Scales or AV pokemon can sometimes switch-in however, if the right coverage move is chosen then a 2hko might be possible. Scales pokemon also often very much so annoyed by taunt, which has become popularized on many Eternatus sets during OMPL, and by the infamous SBEVE (adapt: Core Enforcer, Sludge Bomb, Blue Flare, taunt) set. Then there's Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Eternatus w/ Dragon Energy that can just punch through so many teams if they don't have a steels Ice Scales / AV mon. And even if they do, this set often runs gambit, trick, or Blue Flare to be able to beat or cripple these switch ins. Magearna is sometimes used to prep for this varient, however Mag can get smoked by the Earth Power Simple Etern. Thus I often find that it's very difficult to choose the specially defensive core of a team.

Now, this dilemma doesn't just apply to Etern, there's also Xerneas which puts a massive strain on the specially defensive core of a team. The Metronome Pixilate Xerneas sets often have very few offensive switch ins after the Zacian-C ban, which puts a lot of strain on Balance teams to have some switch in for it, that won't take more than 35% from boomburst. These are often some specially defensive steel pokemon, however these mons can sometimes be shredded by V-Create Xerneas, and Primordial Sea pokemon are threatened by Fishious Rend varients. Desolate Land Ho-oh has risen in popularity as the designated Xerneas check and massive offensive presence. However, correlated with this rise in Desolate Land Ho-oh is the rise of Diamond Storm Xerneas to absolutely abliterate this mon. Thus, between V-Create, Fishious Rend, and Diamond Storm Xerneas can pick and choose which speciall defensive check it wants to beat. FC steels, might in fact be the best check to Pixilate Xerneas, however these pokemon kind of lose to it late game if Xerneas can get a good run of boomburst, and eventually reach damages the FC mon can't out recovery. Thus, the most reliable checks to Xerneas have become Soundproof pokemon or Ice Scales Eternatus, which are able to shrug off many of Xerneas' attacks and threaten it out. However, these pokemon lose to almost every Eternatus set discussed in the previous paragraph. This was all just Pixilate Xerneas, there's also Pheal Xerneas which has been shown to be extremely dangerous and capable of just invalidating specially defensive checks at times. Currently, the most popular pheal Xerneas set is Moonblast / Thunder Cage / Quiver Dance / Spore. This set is extremely dangerous, since when T-Cage and Spore are paired together it can trap + sleep many checks and essentially chip them to death, and AV pokemon, if trapped and slept can instantly lose to it as well. It's also extremely hard to check this pokemon w/ offensive Ho-oh as Deso Land V-Create is a must, and it's still a roll to ohko. And if you don't you get put to sleep and killed by thunder cage. Spore + Quiver Dance also have awesome synergy together, allowing stuff to really snowball. The big thing too about this set is that, Ice Scales pokemon at times can't wall it as well, since Thunder Cage has 24 pp and is able to do a total of about 1,050 damage (24pp * 3.5 turns trapping * 12.5 dmg) which requires 21 recovers (ignoring leftovers). Which means, if your scales mon can't kill it, it will lose to it. Anchor Shot Ice Scales Zama-C is an idea, however, it's a low roll for Anchor to 2hko, and sleep + the need to recover never allows you enough time to click anchor 3 times in a row to kill it. Thus, many speciall defensive pokemon have resorted to bringing safety goggles, or being ground types to stop thunder cage from hitting it. Another popularized idea is giving the designed Xern check Worry Seed / Entrainment as well to force it out. However, if the game goes on for a really long time, this will probably eventually run out of pp, which is a major issue with this idea. 3att pheal Xern also operated slightly differently (Moonblast / Thunder Cage / Scorching Sands (Lava Plume) / Quiver Dance). The idea with this set is that w/ burn + Thunder Cage, you're never losing to anchor shot trappers and are able to really threaten Prim Sea Pokemon. This set, can similarly be checked by similar Ice Scales steels, however it's a lot more difficult to offensively check it, as Xerneas can fish for burns and doesn't have to worry about some sleep sack, which would allow for the scales mon to a lot more comfortably check Xern. However, the 3att varient is able to be a bit more reliably checked by some defensive pokemon with Worry Seed, and requires the game to go a lot longer for an opportunity to arise to beat them. There are some more Xerneas sets which can be discussed however, those are played a lot more differently than the ones highlighted above and they don't have a real place in this current discussion. The conclusion to come from this paragraph however, is that these Xerneas sets are often best checked offensively, as the beat most of their checks or counters late game. Sets that have been used to beat these are RegenBand Zama-C, V-Create Deso Land Ho-oh, and like some adaptability Eternatus sets (I also like Adaptability Excadrill). Keeping pokemon with Anchor Shot, to stop Xerneas from freely switching in, is also one of the best ways to stop it from coming in. Also, I forgot to mention, Scales Zyg w/ goggles can also be good sometimes, but very passive.

What I've kind of realized from these thoughts however, is that, to check Xerneas + Eternatus reliable requires some really passive, small progress making, checks which will still often lose in the end game. And teams which are able to reliably check these two pokemon just totally suck because they're really passive. Thus, I think it's necessary to check and beat this pokemon earlier in the game, and ensure that the rest of your opponent's team will be under way too much pressure for there to be an oppening to bring Xerneas or Eternatus in. The best archetype I've seen to achieve this is the Mold Breaker Glare & Spikes sets (Lunala / Groudon) that have really risen in popularity. One of the best ways to check these many Etern sets is by paralyzing them, which really cripples it, and hazards allows the team to win late game. Obviously, these pokemon have trouble checking Pheal Xern, but free spikes is really great for pressuring them and the rest of the team. I feel like Bulky Offense revolving around crippling strategies like this could potentially be the most consistent team structure (along with hard stall / semi-stall teams).

Court Change / Heavy Duty Boots: With regards to these items, I believe they impose a massive strain on team building. They make thehazards game super non-linear and often require a ton of prep on the builder's side to get it to work really well, as well as dramatically decreasing the options available. When looking at these moves & items, I start to think of the movesand pokemon necessary to have a good hazards game. To have a good hazards game it requires, well improofed Court Change mon, ate-spin pokemon (or spin pokemon that beats tina / Lunala), Stealth Rock, Spikes, Knock Off (sometimes two). Thus, the pokemon that one can use, (aerilate Ho-oh, pixi xern), and the moves necessary for a successfull hazards team (5-6), empose an enormous strain on the user. Thus, hazards play is often relegated to stall builds, since balance teams simply can't afford the moveslots necessary. Even, so hazards can often be so unrewarding as Heavy-Duty Boots spam, and ate spin really easily deal with it. Court Change can also just flip the progress on you which makes hazards very complicated. I am of the personal opinion, that this non-linearity is kinda bad, and restricts the variety of teams that can be used, due to the restriction it has on teams in terms of mons and pokemon which can be used. Right now, I would be in favor of banning Court Change, and then looking at Boots to see if it's banworthy.

Sleep: I am of the personal opinion that sleep should not be banned. For one, I feel like it's an integral part of balanced hackmons, and I find the notion that in the second most sand-box esq metagames one can't use sleep fairly preposterous to say the least. And ideals aside, I don't find sleep to be inherently too broken. I believe there is enough counter play with Safety Goggles, Sleep Sacks, and having various ways to check pokemon enough to counter act sleeps's presence. I feel like, if a team simply falls to the check being put to sleep, then said check was going to lose late game anywase and you can't just say sleep is broken if you have a team which you bring that's a bit week to one pokemon, but you do have some soft check to it, but then this soft check gets put to sleep and you lose. I feel like this isn't sleep being broken, but more so a team simply being broken a bit too easily by one pokemon. This is bh, and if a pokemon / team loses to someone with sleep, then the check might want to be reconsidered, or a game plan should be created to make sure you don't lose to a pokemon with sleep. (this is where my slightly bh boomer mentality comes in and I would point back to my first post after joining council where I put I personally believe that there has to be a balance between banning things and keeping the original spirit of bh at the peaks of gen6 / 7 bh.)


Team Name: Apricot Princess
Description: HO Set Up Spam
Pokepaste: https://pokepast.es/960b6e8c72e1d62c
How to use: The idea of this team is to basically just keep clicking buttons bringing in threat after threat. You kind of want to pick and choose who to sack against to allow for the right breaker to come in for free. You want to look for opportunities to explode with Xerneas to say kill a scales or prankster pokemon, allowing for Eternatus to come in. Lunala & Necrozma are very well improofed by Yveltal allowing for a free drum when they die (thus allowing you to nearly always risk the speed tie). Ho-oh is used as a niche set up check, able to topsy things, and click spore so you don't lose momentum. It's a bit dire if Ho-oh is the last mon alive, but it performs a necessary function on the team.
Weaknesses: Prankster Tapu Fini can be a bit annoying sometimes, but Eternatus and Xerneas are usually able to come in on it and make progress. Prankster Giratina can also be frustrating if Xerneas is dead. Poison Heal Regigigas is probably the biggest threat on the team if it is able to get a dragon dance and then spore off, so the team has to be played carefully such that it isn't given too many free turns. Explosion Xern, and Solg's steel typing is usually enough, but lunala can No Retreat or final gambit if it is looking dire and seems necessary under the right conditions. Ho-oh can also come in, but it'll take a big chunk of damage from facade, but can delay enough for the team to require.
Effectiveness: I unfortunately don't have many replays of this team, but it's been able to beat top players more often than not, and has a strong positive ratio against ladder. It's the most consistent HO that I've seen, but HO is very chaotic by nature, so it might not land the same consistency as stall or balance teams.

(this was a pretty dire explanation of the team so just PM me if you want a better explanation, and if / when I have time I'll try to update it)

 

[Nihilslave]

This is a submission for samples. Other of my recent teams will be posted later.


Team Name: Corrosion Offense
Description: An offense which weakens opposing Special / Steel-Type walls in various ways.
Pokepaste: https://pokepast.es/22103bc4d301ef17
How to use: Eternatus + Celesteela and Regigigas + Xerneas are the two wheels this team runs on.
- Corrosion Eternatus lures special walls and prankster users in and then uses Toxic on them which will never miss. This helps Celesteela (actually the whole team) a lot in terms of dealing with special walls and Steel-Type mons. And since common Poison Heal mons are all afraid of Eternatus' STABs, this strategy will easily work. Also, Celesteela itself has Leech Seed to continuously cut off the opposing walls' HP and thus their PP of recovery moves.
- Regigigas' set is quite standard except the Baton Pass, which helps it to avoid the Core Enforcer from the Giratina if you pass it to Xerneas. Except for getting momentum, Xerneas can also benefit from the boosts passed from Regigigas since it has 3 physical moves. Xerneas is the third mon in this team who is good at getting rid of special walls. However its set is a bit wild. Change it for what you like.
- Imposter Chansey and Zamazenta-Crowned are for set-up attackers and Poison Heal users.
- Chansey improofs Eternatus and Xerneas. Celesteela and Regigigas can usually self-improof. Zamazenta-Crowned can be improofed anyway. Since the Imposter of most mons in this team doesn't have any recovery, it's not difficult to kill the Imposter before having trouble with the Imposter of Zamazenta-Crowned. It's important not to use Toxic on opposing Imposter.
TL; DR: Lure walls, spread status, set up and get the win.
Weaknesses:
- Hazards. As you see, this team has no hazard control. But that's OK since it's almost a hyper offense.
- Attackers. Theoretically they are not a big problem. However with no Fur Coat / Ice Scales users in this team, you need to play offensively and don't let your opponent get too much momentum.
- Belly Drum + V-Create users. Try to kill them with Celesteela.
- Parting Shot. Annoying.
Effectiveness: It won 2/2 BH Seasonal games for me. I don't play too much with it on the ladder however it lets me get #4 on the ladder anyway.

Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1387867491 vs QT
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1392630863-64a6ib8n82zdxs5msnch6u7cpcmfaljpw vs Yolk
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1387524581-tz4zqjojwvvf0n2lc6xdz3b4c78f28spw Ladder Replay 1 (Normal Battle)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1393261581-94clwwmtpmf8gq66e4vlmkr28dff8bcpw Ladder Replay 2 (Against Random Sets)

 

[TTTech]

Hello fellow bh players, it is I... TTTech_ making my very first team post ever. The teams I build are always balance teams centered around slow breakers with passive mons. The team I'd like to share is this:

Team name: We chillin
https://pokepast.es/15728de98edf4ced

Description:
I would like to start off by saying this kind of team isn't about being offensive as it's reactionary to what my opponent does and trying to play around it and then capitalize on putting them in a tough position. Firstly, the entire team is pretty much imposterproof with imposter regi losing to tina, etern to mag, xern to etern, and so on. Regi is the bulky sweeper of the team that will set up spikes on incoming switches to help support the team more. You don't like hazards? Xern is the spinner of the team that will help keep opposing hazards off while you keep yours. Etern is the fast sweeper of the team with an ability that helps it with surviving fellow eterns core enforcers and will enjoy setting up when the steal types are gone. Tina is the bouncer of the team, scaring away all those pesky ho-ohs with nuzzle support and core for the poison heal regis you'll be facing. Mag is the anti-set up mon on the team, now you're wondering why both haze and topsy? Its a bit much I know, but the reason I put both is because dark types are somewhat more seen on ladder making topsy not so great if its unburden yvel with belly drum, but topsy allows you to put a +2 mon to -2 instead of a neutral base attack like haze would allowing you more room and time for the team (parting shot also helps with making incoming attacks weaker for your team). Lastly, zygarde is the full support of the team with wish passing regen and heal bell to keep paras like nuzzle off your team (heal bell also prevents soundproof mons on the opponents team from getting the benefits of heal bell). Zy getting tricked doesn't affect it much either as its the regen mon of the team and can still provide support for the team just by switching. Overall, the team is made to slowly break down the opponents team while you sit back and chill.

Weakness:
Mold breaker/crit etern, ice scales zama, palkia, spore/nuzzle ph xern, vcreate xern (depending on how weak of a position your in), kyurem black with vcreate or precipice blades, steel types can be an issue without spikes up, belly drum triage users

Replays: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1394125402

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1394133433

That's it for my first ever team post. I'm not a god like team builder like most of you guys, but hopefully I posted an ok team.

Edit:
You can replace zy with evio type null to better handle kyu and give it the same move set.

 

[willdbeast]

Hello it is me unviable BH player willdbeast and I am here with a team

Team Name: Terminally Undrafted
Description: Hyper Offense ft. Pikachu
Pokepaste: https://pokepast.es/468d6b1a26361715

How to use: Try to para a scary mon and win with pikachu or sweep with gigas. The rest of the mons are basically just to poke holes for these two to slip through and to slow them down killing your team. Palkia, Zygarde, Kyurem-B and Pikachu can all put a stop to various threats and swing momentum back in your favour. Can often be worth losing KyuB in order to paralyze a threatening sweeper and just win with pikachu. Xern is EVed to maximise damage to imposter, and so that imposter always takes Xern into Custap range with boomburst.

Weaknesses: Can't really do a lot vs unburden belly drum darks or setup Triage mons and stuff like that. Getting bogged down vs stall can often end poorly if you don't get a good hit with Final Gambit. Some PH mons can be a big threat (especially with setup) and Heal Bell is annoying. Imposter can be a pain, you just need to try to wear it down or para it (not like it can heal back up). Spore is pretty irritating.

Effectiveness: I got to 16 something with it and I'm literally worse than not existing so it must be a good team. I also beat XxSevagxX with it and he is alright at bh. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1386830071-0ow9b9lg9jwcqp54jejdxf16qqvg46epw

 

[SuperSkylake]

Here's another sample team submission which I managed to top the bh ladder with: https://pokepast.es/445e9f8c903d4773

The team is built around helping Palkia sweep. Many people argued with me that Palkia wasn't worthy of a rise in the viability rankings, and I think this team shows that with support, which isn't too hard to give right now, it does deserve this distinction.


This is arguably Palkia's most effective set. Running water moves on both sides means that you break through most furScales cores, threatening a 2hKO on just about everything except Tapu Fini which admittedly is a major annoyance. Dragon Energy nets huge damage against bulky neutral mons like Regigigas and Mewtwo, which might try switching in. If the team is running Pheromosa, you want to keep Palkia at 100% so that it can take a single hit and Strength Sap to recover to full or steam eruption to kill. +Spe nature on Palkia has a lot of upsides such as guaranteeing you outspeed Xern which means you can 2hKO it with Steam or Fishious if it tries to switch in on you guaranteed. Having an additional band don check never goes amiss either. Strength Sap is probably the most broken move on the set, instantly recovering Palkia to full against a lot of switchins including Zamac and Spin Xerns.


Originally I was building the team around Specs Mewtwo, which I had felt was being underutilized. Mewtwo is really great for this team, as it gives me an Etern check that doesn't lose all my momentum. Being able to come in on Etern a few times is super useful. Mewtwo is a very forcing presence when it hits the field meaning once you scout the ice scales wall you can decide how you want to cripple it, either with nuzzle or with trick, or just by continuosly pressuring it with volt switch. Additional coverage doesn't really change the matchup against anything much. Psysurge also protects me from Parting Shots and Triage while up, which are both really popular right now.


Palkia is also stopped hard by Tapu Fini. Eternatus is a solid switchin to all common Tapu Fini sets, threatening heavy damage with Sludge Bomb and forcing a switchout. Lava Plume lets me fish for burns, and Core Enforcer does 30% to Regigigas, letting me check non Glacial Lance variants with Etern at +1. Core Enforcer is just barely strong enough to 2hKO non-poison heal Giratina, forcing the prankster variants to Recover twice and the rest out. Magic Bounce helps to keep hazards under control. It's also great for pivoting on a parting shot to get a free switch.


These three make up the rest of the defensive core. Scales Zamac is a hard counter to the major Xerneas sets as well as another check to Gigas and Triage. Goli lets me pivot around Groudon and checks physical setup such as Necro-DM and Unburden Belly Drum, and can use Parting Shot to turn 2hkos into 3hkos which gives me a lot more switch options. Zacian counters Palkia, gets stealth rock up, and heals status once their status platforms have fallen, which is usually a huge gain of momentum for me. Knock Off is also really nice since Leftovers prevents Palkia from getting some 2hkos especially with burns. Strength Sap gives me an additional safety against Groudon and Kyub.

Threats to team
* Reshiram: Probably the single toughest threat to the team, the magic guard setup versions can't really be worn down by hazards and KO everything in one hit except Zamac, which it has a chance to KO. Not letting it get a free +1 is the only way to hold it off, and luckily most of the mons can do that. Zamac has tkick whic, after two uses, does 70%; Palkia has Dragon Energy and Fishious Rend; Etern has Core Enforcer, Goli has Parting Shot, Mewtwo has Nuzzle and Eforce. Still, Zacian is a free switchin for it, which isn't great.
* Regigigas: Regigigas must be scouted to see what coverage moves it has. Luckily, using parting Shot and Strength Sap to keep it at +1 makes this reasonable. And you can always force it out with Etern and Zamac once you decide which one can be used.
* Belly Drum Triage: Usually gets at least 1 kill. Belly Drum is broken guys.
* ImprisonForm: random imprisonForm lures on mons can be really destructive. This is the main reason why I run Shed Shell on Zamac because Zamac is needed to wall both Etern and Xern's major sets. Can't be losing that until it's really time.
*Crit / Sf Etern: Both of these sets have enough power to 2hKO Zamac. The crit set is really tough because it can't be weakened with Parting Shot. Knock Off lowers the critical hit rate to 50% after Focus Energy, which is still a 50 50. Then you often have to hope that Mewtwo wins the speed tie, and you can see this in one of the replays.
* Hyper Offense: Due to the limited number of spectral thief users on this team, setup spam is always a concern. Team Preview only goes so far, especially if a lot of the mons are final gambit lures and you lose the wrong one. I guess that's just how it goes though.
* Garchomp: Because of its trolly speed of 102 Garchomp is actually really tough to deal with, because the only safe switchin is Zacian, which isn't the bulkiest thing around. If they are running Magic Bounce then Zacian is just a sitting duck.

Replays:
Wins
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1396689012
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1395077587
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1398186920
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1398193944 (rematch of previous game)
And the ladder-peaking win: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1398660732-5nt0giop38b02tj7c2a06mli4bx2mg3pw

Representative losses:
Because of Garchomp: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1395795338
Because of imprisonform: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1397873616

 

[opfish]

Team: https://pokepast.es/7e4f3b9206459fb0

Team name: idk

How to use: Xerneas is really strong and you can just click Explosion if you can’t kill them with Boomburst or Blue Flare. Drampa is a improof for both Spectrier and Xerneas. Spectrier can OHKO Ice Scales Zamazenta-C and many other Pokemons with one turn set-up.

+4 252 SpA Life Orb Spectrier Moongeist Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Zygarde-Complete: 563-664 (88.5 - 104.4%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

+4 252 SpA Life Orb Spectrier Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Regigigas: 434-512 (102.3 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+4 252 SpA Life Orb Spectrier Moongeist Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Xerneas: 551-651 (120.8 - 142.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+4 252 SpA Life Orb Spectrier Moongeist Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Zamazenta-Crowned: 382-450 (98.4 - 115.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

+4 252 SpA Life Orb Spectrier Moongeist Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Ho-Oh: 399-472 (95.9 - 113.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

+4 252 SpA Life Orb Spectrier Moongeist Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Giratina: 585-689 (116 - 136.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+4 252 SpA Life Orb Spectrier Moongeist Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eternatus: 515-606 (106.4 - 125.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO



Eternatus ImpriForm surprise kill Ice Scales Pokemon. Triage Celesteela can sweep with O Wing and self improof with Leech Seed, imo Scorcing Sands is better than Earth Power because it can spread burn.



Weaknesses: Triage Celesteela, Hazards especially Sticky Web cause this team have 0 hazards removal( you may change Giratina Parting Shot to Court Change or Drampa Baton Pass to Defog or CC).

Replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1402861677-ybvgzv94gy5yf3bqudior4iw9kvrw2lpw

 

[Nihilslave]

Going to quit pokemon for a while. This is a team dump.

Viable(?) Teams

Regigigas + Lunala HO
My best team ever. Built last year and still consistent now if the opponent doesn't know the set.
It makes progress like an HO, and is well-improofed like a balance. Sticky Web lures your opponent to remove it so that you get a free turn to set up.
I reached #2 with it in January.
Replays: vs. QT | vs. Ivar

Para Spam
Pre Zac-c ban team. I was going to submit this one as a sample but then I found it a little slow-paced in the current meta.
It's interesting that this team looks so similar to the previous one. Though they are totally irrelevant.
I achieved a 30-0 with it before Zac-c ban. But now please change some sets in it to deal with set-up attackers better before using.
Replays: vs. Maple | vs. Ivar

Untitled 245
An experimental team after Zac-c ban. Don't use it.
Replay: vs. cityscapes

Trick or Treat
Another experimental team after Zac-c ban using trick to weaken etern's checks/counters.
Better than the previous one. Should be fun to use.
Replay: the raw energy of ring target

阴间 Stall (Not a Stall)
It's not hard to understand the meaning of "阴间" after you see the sets. It means "hell" btw.
One day I wanted something new to check pheal xern and pheal gigas so I built this.
I believe it can be better if you change some mons or sets in it except type:null and shuckle.
Replay: a replay

Outdated, but Remarkable Teams

Kyurem-W in Battle
Pre DLC1 team.
At that time fur coat mons and melmetal were just everywhere. Mixed attackers were excellent to use as a result.
Also this team shows how broken shed was.

VBG Semi-Stall
An experimental team after Calyrex-s ban.
I wanted to try out V-Create + Bolt Beak + Glacial Lance, which is VBG for short, and to find a fat physical defensive mon that is not weak to VBG at the same time.

Hazard + Trap Stall
I'm not a good stall player but this one is kind of interesting. It forces the opponent to switch with impform, spite and anchor shot and damage them with stealth rock.

Cramorant Offense
One day I realized that cramorant can be used to improof. After being paralyzed, the imposter of some powerful attackers instantly falls into a situation where they are like the paralyzed strong attackers facing a imposter pikachu. Also cramorant mutes the opponent's spectral thief, which makes it easier to use baton pass on zac-c.
I achieved a 27-0 in a suspect test with it.

Standard Balance?
Was a good balance (or semi-stall). I achieved a 38-0-2 with it, from which we can see how good zac-c was.

NDBH/G7BH Teams

Psychic Brothers II
Necrozma-Ultra is slow and fragile as a psychic-type attacker. But if you change the point of view, it becomes an outstanding fast and strong dragon-type breaker. I paired it with deoxys-a, which helps to kill fast attackers since necrozma-ultra's 129 speed is awkward. Many parts of this team is delicately designed in terms of damage calculation and improof.
This team can be easily turned into a leagal team after the bolt beak ban. However the posted version is better to show the original ideas in it.
I reached #3 with it.
Replays: ladder replay 1 | ladder replay 2

Thousand Arrows!!!
My first good team, built in 2019. And I reached 1600 with it.
An HO around ground-type spam. Some sets look weird today such as the water shuriken on deoxys-a.
Replay: vs. A LOSR (Not played by me)

Kyu-B + Shed Balance
Also built in 2019. My first attempt to improof with shed.

 

[a loser]

The sample teams have been updated! We can finally say goodbye to those outdated Zacian-C era teams and welcome in the new ones. Thank you to everyone who submitted teams this time, we had a lot of good options to choose from. The new teams can be found on the first page of the thread as always and they're shown below here as well.

BENEATH THE SOIL THAT HOLDS MAGICAL POWER by cityscapes
[Balance - Triage Celesteela + Pixilate Xerneas + Eviolite Imposter]


#sigma grindset by Lunatic Hai
[Balance - Specs Eternatus + Poison Heal Xerneas]


Good News by a loser
[Balance - Volt/Turn Eternatus + Groudon + Fur Coat Lunala]


Apricot Princess by XxSevagxX
[Offense - Setup Sweeper Spam + Lunar Dance Support]


Double Mold Breaker Offense by quojova
[Balance - Mold Breaker Eternatus + Groudon + Pixilate Xerneas]


"Water Gun" Stall by Onyx Onix 7
[Stall - Triple Poison Heal + Status Spam]


Corrosion Offense by Nihilslave
[Offense - Corrosion Eternatus + Triage Celesteela + Pixilate Xerneas]


Triage Yveltal by a loser
[Balance - Triage Yveltal + Tough Claws Zama-C + Poison Heal Giratina]

 

[MAMP]

some shit i've tried lately:



Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Lava Plume
- Teleport / Anchor Shot
- Entrainment / Spectral Thief / Doom Desire

people have largely stopped running ground coverage on xern and i don't see fishious rend much either, so magic bounce heatran hard counters basically every xern. magic bounce in general i think is really valuable rn bc of how common strength sap and parting shot are. mb heatran is pretty awkward overall though bc it isn't that bulky in general, so ur running a mb steel that often still loses to pult and gigas, not rly where u want to be most of the time. sometimes lava plume is annoying to switch into

Heatran @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest/Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Doom Desire
- Nuzzle / Spectral Thief / Filler
- U-turn

this heatran is worse against ph xern and doesn't brick strength sap, but it can take on most eternatus sets and checks random uncommon shit like mewtwo and rayquaza. regen + a strong doom desire is really cool too, you can wear down a lot of more passive teams by getting this in repeatedly on things like giratina and random fat guys, setting up a dd then pivoting into ur breakers


Eternatus @ Black Sludge
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Core Enforcer
- Sludge Bomb
- Thunder Cage
- Spore

only defensive counterplay to this is magic bounce steels. completely broken set, ban sleep etc. here's a replay of it beating ice scales zama-c: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1409205027-w92pq695yzzdbjayikoez4vl7d2yfwlpw

Eternatus @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Bomb
- Recover

Last two slots some combination of Core Enforcer / Lava Plume / Anchor Shot / Entrainment / Court Change / Spectral Thief / hazards, very versatile

funny ph xern counter that also beats most triage stuff and checks some miscellaneous setup sweepers like ph gigas. benefits a ton from the surprise factor of unaware, people try to set up in front of this all the time and u make them look very silly. run stuff to make sure xern doesn't get to spike on you switching in


Zekrom @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shift Gear
- Dragon Darts
- Bolt Strike
- Obstruct


+1 252+ Atk Zekrom Bolt Strike vs. -2 252 HP / 252+ Def Zamazenta-Crowned: 430-507 (110.8 - 130.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

that's the whole joke


Yveltal @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wicked Blow
- Brave Bird
- Nuzzle
- Strength Sap

would be cool if this did more defensively, because hard to switch into but the wicked blow pp sucks and it can take a lot of prediction to make progress in a lot of matchups. if u never lose speed ties against xerneas this gets a lot better


Tyranitar @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Nuzzle / Rapid Spin
- Core Enforcer

pretty effective etern/ho-oh check, also beats those random special attackers that are getting more popular lately like mewtwo, lunala, spectrier, rayquaza, blace. make sure youve got good ph xern counterplay. if they dont know you're vest you live a pixi xern boomburst easily and nuzzle it


Zamazenta @ Life Orb
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat / Low Kick
- Wicked Blow / Triple Axel / Glacial Lance
- Bolt Strike / Sunsteel Strike
- Strength Sap

zamazenta feels really underrated atm, a very effective late-game cleaner that pairs really well with doom desire/future sight or hazard stacking. the coverage choices are a little bit awkward because there's so much variety among fighting resists in this tier: wicked blow in the second slot i think gets the best overall coverage, but triple axel makes you a much more effective etern check. bolt strike hits ho-oh, golisopod, celesteela and fini, whereas sunsteel 2hkos xerneas at the cost of coverage against everything else. for some teams this is worth it, although keep in mind that bolt strike does like 40-50 to xern anyway and sunsteel doesnt ohko it. here's a game where it does stuff: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1409210915-ck3lxfg5zzom8yji6y7gmktw0ct5ciwpw

Zamazenta @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Low Kick
- Knock Off / whatever
- whatever
- U-turn / Parting Shot

pivot into zama-c or other random passive shit and just do stuff, like ph mmx last gen. knock off + purify is a funny option against ph xern and tina, and i like parting shot for etern and espeedless pixi xern. hazards and status moves go well on this. can get worn down, so consider running strength sap or making sure you have plenty of ways to pivot this in for the passive recovery


Dialga @ Adamant Orb
Ability: Steelworker / Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Doom Desire
- Core Enforcer
- Roost
- Teleport / Whirlwind / Dragon Tail / Nasty Plot / Nuzzle

Dialga @ Adamant Orb
Ability: Corrosion
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Doom Desire
- Core Enforcer
- Slack Off
- Toxic

doom desire is sick and very slept on right now. stuff like xern and etern are really limited by it and most teams are very reliant on zama-c/ho-oh to take doom desires, and that limited range of counterplay is easy to exploit. best partners are physical breakers that beat zama-c, things like groudon, garchomp, and zamazenta all have practically no switchins with a doom desire coming down. last moveslot on dialga is a move to stop zama-c or ho-oh from sitting in front of you and eating doom desire: teleport into a breaker is the easiest option, but phasing moves, nasty plot + tinted lens, or nuzzle are all funny alternatives. removing ice scales with core enforcer is often relevant here and ive considered running lower speed to underspeed ice scales ho-oh, but i don't think that's viable


Landorus-Therian (M) @ Sharp Beak
Ability: Aerilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Strength Sap
- Precipice Blades
- Extreme Speed

i think this is largely just outclassed by ho-oh, but it has a much stronger espeed due to not needing to run boots and can beat flash fire steels. i tried body slam > espeed on this so it could threaten tina but its not worth it, the strong espeed is the only real reason this is worth using. consider jolly > ada to sap on +speed groudon maybe, do people run that?


Tapu Bulu @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Leech Seed / Strength Sap
- Spirit Break
- Spiky Shield / Filler
- Teleport

Tapu Bulu @ Leftovers
Ability: Ice Scales
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Thousand Waves
- Spirit Break
- Shore Up
- Filler

in theory tapu bulu covers palkia and groudon in one slot and does the ph fairy thing where it switches into giratina and big zyg and slow pivots on them, but in my experience it isn't bulky enough to switch into things reliably and it doesn't have much general utility due to its poor stabs and common weaknesses. ice scales is a reliable palkia check but doesn't do anything else really.


Tornadus-Therian (M) @ Sharp Beak
Ability: Aerilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Rapid Spin / Earth Power
- Nasty Plot
- Strength Sap

was inspired by using stresh's aerilate lugia and being really impressed by how strong it was despite only have 90 base special attack. just imagine how much damage we could do if we had 110 base special attack? not a lot of good flying resists in the tier and torn outspeeds neutral nature zama-c and etern, but torn is overall not bulky enough to spin or set up reliably and not strong enough to get through flying resists/ice scales mons when they do show up, so i find it to be very matchup reliant. fun but mediocre overall


Dragapult @ Choice Specs
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Astral Barrage
- Dragon Energy
- Volt Switch
- Clanging Scales

dogshit. do not use


bulldozer (Barraskewda) @ Choice Band
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fishious Rend
- U-turn
- Diamond Storm / Trick
- Diamond Storm / Lunar Dance

matchup fish returns: skewda is one of the best rain abusers at the moment, heaps of teams don't have a switchin to fishious rend (you need an extremely bulky fur coat pokemon or something with desolate land. by extremely bulky i mean its a roll to 2hko +def fur coat zama-c) and this outspeeds and ohkos etern under rain. rain is quite inconsistent rn for a wide variety of reasons and i would not suggest trying to ladder with it, but if you get the right matchup with this you really can't lose.


Toxapex @ Rocky Helmet / Safety Goggles / Black Sludge
Ability: Magic Bounce / Ice Scales
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Teleport
- Entrainment
- Scald

toxapex is not bulky enough to do anything but if u need a shitty xern check that can reliably get momentum on zama-c, then pex might be the man for the job. maybe it can check palkia sometimes, idk