Ban Heal Pulse in singles?

Zarel

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Hi, apparently there are ways to make endless battles that still aren't covered by Endless Battle Clause. No one's told me the exact set but apparently it involves Heal Pulse, Wish, and Recycle.

I want to straight-up ban Heal Pulse in singles; it's not like it has a competitive use, anyway.

edit: sample replay: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-248510468
 
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Banning heal pulse is probably the simplest ban that would be aimed at eliminating endless battles and cause the least amount of collateral damage (even leppa has some uses!). That being said, I can also guarantee that while this may make it harder for endless (or very long) battles to be done, the era of fun will nevertheless continue.
 

Zarel

Not a Yuyuko fan
is a Site Content Manageris a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Programmeris a Pokemon Researcheris an Administrator
Creator of PS
Battle Girl Kelsey: Hey, I saw your PR thread on endless battles. It's been happening with Skill Swap (Harvest) Trevenant + Trace Gardevoir holding a Leppa Berry
Battle Girl Kelsey: Someone has a bot attempting it named PartyBot
 

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Since we're talking about endless battles again, I might as well bring this up. I don't have a replay (this is the closest thing, but it just uses a Leppa Berry+Recycle Gothitelle before that was banned), but I've seen someone pull this off an endless battle without Heal Pulse or breaking the current clause. They used an Entrainment Truant Durant, a Shadow Tag Gothitelle with Trick and a Leppa Berry, and a Shadow Tag Gothita with Trick, Protect, and Recycle. If the opponent doesn't switch out the Truant 'mon right after getting hit with Entrainment, Gothitelle can switch in, trick it a Leppa Berry, and then Gothita can come in for free, get the Leppa Berry back with Trick again, and spam Protect and Recycle endlessly.

While I'd strongly support a flat-out ban on Leppa Berry because I'm confident in people's abilities to find loopholes in clauses, also banning Leppa Berry+Trick/Switcheroo would at least make getting past the Leppa Berry+Recycle restriction significantly harder, if not impossible.
 
I've always been a proponent of a clause that mods the game to cause it to become impossible to get a used Leppa Berry (via Harvest/Recycle/Pick Up). Doing so will likely fix most Endless Battle issues, except when the opponent has at least two of Aqua Ring/Ingrain/Leftovers plus Truant. Yes, there's collateral in that you can't have infinite PP on your non-endless strats, but it feels like the best course of action to me.
 
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Is there really any reason that we can't just do a flat Leppa Berry ban? I remember when this discussion first came up during the time of the initial Endless Battle Clause, there were a handful of people who were adamantly opposed to banning Leppa Berry outright on the grounds that it has legitimate competitive use outside of endless battle strategies, but I have yet to see any real examples where Leppa Berry is the optimal item on a certain set. Nobody actually uses Leppa Berry, and there's a good reason for that. Outside of a few extremely situational circumstances, Leppa Berry will always be outclassed by Leftovers or some other item. Meanwhile, look at what we gain. Rather than trying to band-aid the issue with a handful of complicated bans that very well may be bypassed later on down the road, we can cover all the bases with a simple ban of an item that no one uses competitively in the first place. Not only that, but we can ensure that no further endless battle issues will arise. As far as I know, there's no way to cause endless battles without the Leppa Berry since you or your opponent will eventually die to Struggle; the only ways I know of to keep the opponent alive during Struggle are through Heal Pulse and the Truant + Protect combo mentioned above, and you need Leppa Berry in order to perform either task infinitely.

Ultimately, I think the benefits of simplicity and nipping the problem in the bud far outweigh the microscopic collateral damage of banning what is ultimately a gimmick item in the first place. If we were willing to soft ban a couple of BW Cacturne's moves in order to ban Sand Veil in OU, then I don't see why we can't be equally willing to eliminate a few subpar (and basically nonexistent) Leppa Berry sets in order to take care of endless battles in the most simple and efficient way.
 

Zarel

Not a Yuyuko fan
is a Site Content Manageris a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Programmeris a Pokemon Researcheris an Administrator
Creator of PS
I'll do a flat Leppa Berry ban if I need to, but right now my additional ban of Leppa Berry + Trick, Leppa Berry + Switcheroo, and Heal Pulse should in theory cover anything.

I don't see a problem with complexity in the Endless Battle Clause ban, because anyone who isn't intentionally trying to induce an endless battle will never encounter it in the first place.
 

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