doesnt even matter if it's BW Rain... Jynx is giving up Dry Skin to make it work. Which it doesn't.
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Banning Leppa Berry
- Thread starter tennisace
- Start date
Yeah, it will only work with BW rain, so add Politoed. Jynx can just switch out and back in to regain Dry Skin.
Heh, I completely forgot about the existence of Role Play.
You're already confirmed, btw: Global voice automatically grants confirmed status.
Sounds like it'll work. Can you try to get a replay?
Either way, if you want confirmed status, it's yours.
Now to figure out how to take care of this... The most difficult part is, if your opponent has a Dry Skin user, it suddenly becomes very hard to ban... You'd need to ban Leppacycling completely, or at least Leppacycling in combination with Water/Electric moves...
Correct me if I'm wrong but i think the issue is that endless battling is just a retarded strategy that isn't competitive and there isn't a way to get out of it, so it wouldn't matter how easy it is to avoid. if its possible to set up a trap that cannot be escaped without forfeiting then it should go under the clause imo
at this point might as well just add leppa berry + recycle to whatever bans. if leppa was a far-fetched item to use competitively then leppa recycle is even worse, and I think it's better than banning water or electric type moves
also isn't dry skin recovery 12% and struggle recoil 25%?
e: nvm my mind slipped here
at this point might as well just add leppa berry + recycle to whatever bans. if leppa was a far-fetched item to use competitively then leppa recycle is even worse, and I think it's better than banning water or electric type moves
also isn't dry skin recovery 12% and struggle recoil 25%?
e: nvm my mind slipped here
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Is there no way to implement a limit to battles in the form of struggle loops resulting in a tie or a player losing after a certain amount of turns? All the endless battle problems come from healing back struggle recoil and since playing a cat and mouse game in banning arbitrary things just to prevent that is the problem here, wouldn't that just solve it? I remember someone brought this up during the original endless battle clause, but for some reason it didn't get through, despite being an actual cart mechanic (a timer limit, but that would be dumb for 6v6 singles).
Not all of them. Some of them involve forcing the opponent to Leppacycle, and one involves preventing the opponent from using any moves at all (Truant/Protect loop).
Okay, new idea: in-battle clause:
A Pokémon is considered stale if:
- it has gained a Leppa berry through any means besides starting with one (including but not limited to Harvest, Recycle, Pickup, Symbiosis, Bestow, Thief, Switcheroo, and Magician)
- it has been targeted with Fling Leppa Berry
- OR it has no available moves other than Struggle and ends a turn with more HP than it started that turn with
- OR it has no available moves other than Struggle and ends a turn with as much HP as it started with, and was not fully paralyzed, loafing around from Truant, or immobilized from Attract
If all active Pokémon are stale, the player whose team originally started with a Leppa Berry loses (or it's a tie, if both teams started with Leppa Berries).
A Pokémon is considered stale if:
- it has gained a Leppa berry through any means besides starting with one (including but not limited to Harvest, Recycle, Pickup, Symbiosis, Bestow, Thief, Switcheroo, and Magician)
- it has been targeted with Fling Leppa Berry
- OR it has no available moves other than Struggle and ends a turn with more HP than it started that turn with
- OR it has no available moves other than Struggle and ends a turn with as much HP as it started with, and was not fully paralyzed, loafing around from Truant, or immobilized from Attract
If all active Pokémon are stale, the player whose team originally started with a Leppa Berry loses (or it's a tie, if both teams started with Leppa Berries).
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I know this isn't really what you're looking for, but technically with your proposed clause it is still possible to create an endless battle
- using Ghost type Pokémon
- in a Gen 1 match
- when both players have only Normal type moves left.
- - OR it is out of PP and ends a turn with as much or more HP than it started that turn with
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The closest thing I could think of in Gen 6 is giving the opponent Dry Skin, Leftovers, and activating Grassy Terrain and Rain to heal exactly 25%. However, I don't think Dry Skin works the turn Rain wears off, and the same with Grassy Terrain when it wears off. Someone else should test it, I don't need the custom avatar and barely have working internet anyways.
Fair enough, you get an avatar. It's my fault for trying to make an exception for Truant. The new Truant exception is now:
- OR it is out of PP and ends a turn with as much HP as it started with, and was not fully paralyzed or loafing around
In theory, this should be sufficient, since neither FP nor Truant activate all the time.
My list of ways to Leppacycle is woefully incomplete. New method requires no list:
- it has gained a Leppa berry through any means besides starting with one (including but not limited to Harvest, Recycle, Pickup, Symbiosis, Bestow, Thief, Switcheroo, and Magician)
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http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-ou-76570
A Pokemon may be forced to Struggle without actually running out of all its PP (in this case, choice item + running out of the locked move's PP, but scenarios involving Imprison, Taunt, Torment, Disable, etc. are possible). In this case, the Endless Battle Clause will fail to activate.
A Pokemon may be forced to Struggle without actually running out of all its PP (in this case, choice item + running out of the locked move's PP, but scenarios involving Imprison, Taunt, Torment, Disable, etc. are possible). In this case, the Endless Battle Clause will fail to activate.
Valid. Feel free to PM me for a custom avatar.
I've updated the rule to "it has no available moves other than Struggle".
Although I might not have found a way to bypass said mechanic, I can find a scenario where this would be exploited, in gsc where games tend to be significantly longer than other generations, and pp stalling and long term play being far more important. Wouldn't this new clause be available per se if one player happens to have a significantly lower chance of winning, and choose to run out of pp and then proceed to struggle and by chance if struggle fails to inflict enough damage for the leftovers recovery, then it would trigger this clause and thus end in a stale game and thus be a redo.
I'm bringing this up because this is exactly what happened in Tiba vs Bedschibaer during spl 6 where one player ended up having a zapdos that could only struggle (and a curse snorlax in the back) and was reliant on said zapdos ko'ing itself via its opponent's attacks + struggle recoil (which was unfeasible) and then proceeding to sweep with the curselax in the back which would give Beds the (likely) win, Tiba proceeded to avoid this scenario by relentlessly switching his mons in to end the battle via PO turn count thus forcing the draw/null match. This was the original decision, and although it was overturned later on due to the fact that this type of scenario would not happen on cartridge due to no turn limit, with your new proposed endless battle clause, a gsc player at a disadvantageous situation could potentially do something similar to Tiba and get your new clause to nullify the match and rather than getting overturned because of sim restrictions, it would be instead be considered a stale game due to endless battle.
Honestly this might just be a nitpick but it's definitely worth noting especially in tiers where struggle doesn't do a guaranteed 25% recoil to the user so I feel having some sort of workaround to make this non abusable in a tour setting would be preferable.
Both Pokémon need to be stale for Endless Battle Clause to activate. In your case, it seems that only the Zapdos would be considered stale.
That is a situation that needs to be handled somehow, though. How would you suggest it be handled?
Honorable mention goes to SHOEGAZE SKUP and akelly96, who were very close to finding an endless battle, using Roar + Regenerator to heal Struggle damage. Unfortunately, it still fails:
- OR it has no available moves other than Struggle and ends a turn with more HP than it started that turn with
I'm still probably going to give him a custom avatar, though, because it was a really creative idea.
- OR it has no available moves other than Struggle and ends a turn with more HP than it started that turn with
I'm still probably going to give him a custom avatar, though, because it was a really creative idea.
Oh my mistake, didn't notice that both pokemon had to be stale, but my point still stands as a whole especially if say both sides were out of pp and their wincon was for the opponent to switch and thus eventually ko their mon locked into struggle, which could potentially be disadvantageous for the opposing party and thus still abusable. Even in the former case, although it might not be a stale game in the truest sense, it forces one side to give up their advantageous position and be locked into a worse position.
What I would recommend is probably something along the lines of, you can't use struggle more than x turns in a row (with x being a predetermined number turns being what would be considered legitimate uses of struggle before it becomes obvious that you want to force your opp to either endlessly stall the battle out via switches or trigger some endless battle clause effect) and if you do it results in a auto loss. Although it might not seem the most practical at an initial glance, it'll potentially avoid the situation where one side either endlessly struggles or making their opponent be forced to make bad plays to avoid a tie which I feel is what you're going for with this. However even this still has its flaws and there's really no way that I can think of atm that wouldn't potentially be advantageous for a specific player to exploit, but this way would make the whole opponent being forced to make terrible reactionary plays to avoid a tie game more feasible which I feel is the point of this clause in the first place.
This can indeed be turned into an endless battle when combined with the ability imposter. Although like the whole gen 1 ghost thing it is very impractical and pretty much will never happen in a real battle, with the ability imposter which gives pp upon switchin, you can endlessly stall a battle out. Something that me and Haruno came up with. Replay for reference. The battle will technically never end.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-251601165
SHOEGAZE SKUP and akelly96 did it, with an Assist Whirlwind team this time.
1. I'm pretty sure my Endless Battle Clause prevents that. Test in Smogtours.
2. You can make a battle last forever simply by doing nothing but double-switching. Endless Battle Clause only covers the case where only one player is trying to make a battle last forever.