Battle Mechanics Research

[R_N]

On serebii, someone posted this

I don't know if this has been discussed but I haven't seen anything about it on the main page,
Wonder room?

Something interesting just happened to me. I was in a battle with a klefki and it used wonder room before i moved. Now all the “room” moves usually always go last regardless of speed so either wonder room has lost its negative priority, or prankster now makes the room moves go first anyway,

 

[Tsumugi Kotokobuki]

Can anyone confirm how the following scenario plays out?

An opponents pokemon tries to switch on the same turn that the other players Tyranitar Mega Evolves and uses Pursuit.

 

[Plus]

Can anyone confirm how the following scenario plays out?

An opponents pokemon tries to switch on the same turn that the other players Tyranitar Mega Evolves and uses Pursuit.

Just did this test with a Mega Absol against Katakiri, it Mega Evolves first then does Pursuit.

 

[nyttyn]

- Can Magic Room or Embargo prevent Mega-Evolution?



A enemy houndoom used Embargo on my Blastoise ingame. On the next turn, I was able to Mega Transform without any issue. No idea on wonder room, but Embargo cnanot prevent mega transform.

 

[Ballofire]

So it turns out that megas are not as useful as once thought. Been doing some wifi battle testing with some of the new megas and key seems as though they've made a huge fuck up or just an oversight..

let's use Lucario vs Charizard as an example

Turn 1 Lucario mega evolves raising its base speed from 90 to 120 or so (might be 110 can't remember) so it should out speed charizard right? NOPE. Charizard has base 100 speed but still will out speed that return due to base Lucarios speed. Gotta be a mistake right? NOPE. Next turn lucario is now faster. Tested it multiple times and with various mons who's base speed increased.

I'll try and get a video up, but I can promise you this is true.

Turn 1 Lucario Mega Evolves and uses Close Combat
Turn 1 still Charizard Out sped before Close Combat goes off despite having 10+ base speed lower.

We found this weird so he used SD and I used SD to see who'd go first now.

Lucario went first for the next 20 turns.

 

[Spenstar]

So on the turn of mega evolution, speed stays the same. That sucks for a lot of Pokemon, and it means you're going to have to go Mega on the switch or use protect.

I initially shunned a few Megas because their damage output was less than their regular form with Life Orb. Blaziken's a good example. However, I didn't see the full picture. Blaziken gets 20 more speed and so can go Adamant over Jolly. Adamant MegaBlaziken does more damage than Jolly LO Blaziken. The same is likely true for Mewtwo Y and Gardevoir, though I have to check.

 

[scorpdestroyer]

What happens if you use Protect and Mega Evolve on the same turn then? Do you get a safe MEvo?

Edit: if you use a priority move and mega evolve, do your stats (defense, special defense) change for the rest of the turn? Or do they stay the same? Was the above example because Lucario's speed was originally lower than Charizard, or just that the stats don't apply on the turn of mega evolving?

 

[Stellar]

Protean transforms the user into the corresponding type when it uses Hidden Power.

i.e.
Frogadier used Hidden Power!
Frogadier transformed into the Ice type!

 

[Ballofire]

What happens if you use Protect and Mega Evolve on the same turn then? Do you get a safe MEvo?

Edit: if you use a priority move and mega evolve, do your stats (defense, special defense) change for the rest of the turn? Or do they stay the same? Was the above example because Lucario's speed was originally lower than Charizard, or just that the stats don't apply on the turn of mega evolving?

Lucario and Charizard were the standard 252/252 ATK/SPD spread both adamant nature also. So yeah there's no way Charizard should of gone first the turn I megad.

Someone posted on /vp/ about two mewtwos aswell:

can confirm this also. thought it was a bug or a tie at first but has happened multiple occasions. Me and a friend tested with our mewtwos. Mine had a few points higher speed. I let him mega evolve but I still outsped the turn he evolved but the turn after he was faster. garbaaaaaaaggeee.

 

[ace combat]

When using transform on a Mega Evo, does it transform into the Mega Evo or just the regular pokemon?

 

[Whitman]

So it turns out that megas are not as useful as once thought. Been doing some wifi battle testing with some of the new megas and key seems as though they've made a huge fuck up or just an oversight..

let's use Lucario vs Charizard as an example

Turn 1 Lucario mega evolves raising its base speed from 90 to 120 or so (might be 110 can't remember) so it should out speed charizard right? NOPE. Charizard has base 100 speed but still will out speed that return due to base Lucarios speed. Gotta be a mistake right? NOPE. Next turn lucario is now faster. Tested it multiple times and with various mons who's base speed increased.

I'll try and get a video up, but I can promise you this is true.

Turn 1 Lucario Mega Evolves and uses Close Combat
Turn 1 still Charizard Out sped before Close Combat goes off despite having 10+ base speed lower.

We found this weird so he used SD and I used SD to see who'd go first now.

Lucario went first for the next 20 turns.

Those are actually good news for Garchomp. It will retain his original speed for one turn.

EDIT: Abomasnow too. He lost of speed in his megaform.

 

[raddaya]

When using transform on a Mega Evo, does it transform into the Mega Evo or just the regular pokemon?

This has been figured out in the thread, it transforms into the Mega Evo.

 

[Phiddlesticks]

So it turns out that megas are not as useful as once thought. Been doing some wifi battle testing with some of the new megas and key seems as though they've made a huge fuck up or just an oversight..

let's use Lucario vs Charizard as an example

Turn 1 Lucario mega evolves raising its base speed from 90 to 120 or so (might be 110 can't remember) so it should out speed charizard right? NOPE. Charizard has base 100 speed but still will out speed that return due to base Lucarios speed. Gotta be a mistake right? NOPE. Next turn lucario is now faster. Tested it multiple times and with various mons who's base speed increased.

I'll try and get a video up, but I can promise you this is true.

Turn 1 Lucario Mega Evolves and uses Close Combat
Turn 1 still Charizard Out sped before Close Combat goes off despite having 10+ base speed lower.

We found this weird so he used SD and I used SD to see who'd go first now.

Lucario went first for the next 20 turns.

Turn order is always determined at the beginning of each turn, and changes to Pokemon speed don't actually affect turn order until the following turn (but they do affect moves like Gyro Ball/Electro Ball). It worked this way in Gen 5 too. For example, in a double or triple battle, if my opponent had Prankster Thundurus and Weavile while I had Crobat and Swift Swim Ludicolo, a turn could happen like so:

Thundurus used Thunder Wave! Crobat is paralyzed!
Crobat used Rain Dance!
Weavile used Ice Punch! It's super effective on Crobat!
Ludicolo used Hydro Pump!

Again, Ludicolo's Speed will still be doubled by Swift Swim and the Rain will still boost Hydro Pump that turn, but because the turn order was already set at the beginning of the turn, Ludicolo won't be able to attack before Crobat and Weavile until the following turn

 

[Age of Kings]

I'm not sure if this was mentioned yet but there might be a possible change in mechanics for Roar/Whirlwind/other moves that force switches. A wild Sigilyph's Whirlwind failed against my Wartortle and at first I thought this was an NPC-only mechanic. I was told that Dragon Tail also failed against heavier Pokemon but this is an unconfirmed rumor. I will try to test this in-game in a bit to see if this holds water.

 

[Ballofire]

Those are actually good news for Garchomp. It will retain his original speed for one turn.

EDIT: Abomasnow too. He lost of speed in his megaform.

Chomp the most for sure. Allowing it have that first turn e

I'm not sure if this was mentioned yet but there might be a possible change in mechanics for Roar/Whirlwind/other moves that force switches. A wild Sigilyph's Whirlwind failed against my Wartortle and at first I thought this was an NPC-only mechanic. I was told that Dragon Tail also failed against heavier Pokemon but this is an unconfirmed rumor. I will try to test this in-game in a bit to see if this holds water.

This is because of poke amie. You can also survive with 1hp multiple times too and shake off statuses

 

[R_N]

Chomp the most for sure. Allowing it have that first turn e


This is because of poke amie. You can also survive with 1hp multiple times too and shake off statuses

Are you sure about that because I'm pretty sure whirlwind didn't work on a few of my pokemon who were never monamied

 

[Age of Kings]

Ah I see. Well I just tried it against a heavier Pokemon (Sigilyph v Golbat) in a trainer battle and it worked so it's just another silly rumor debunked. It's probably just a wild-only mechanic with no competitive implications.

 

[kd24]

Imposter vs Protean

Greninja uses Ice Beam to kill something, becoming Ice-type.
Ditto comes in, Imposter copies Greninja and Ditto becomes an Ice-type, proven by Ditto not receiving the Protean message when using Ice Beam the following turn.
Checked with by Stellar

 

[UltiMario]

On serebii, someone posted this

As far as we know Klefki can't even learn Wonder Room, however, I'll test this with Magic Room instead.

Edit: Magic Room is now neutral priority

 

[Stalfos]

On serebii, someone posted this

I don't know if this has been discussed but I haven't seen anything about it on the main page,
Wonder room?

Something interesting just happened to me. I was in a battle with a klefki and it used wonder room before i moved. Now all the “room” moves usually always go last regardless of speed so either wonder room has lost its negative priority, or prankster now makes the room moves go first anyway,

Yeah I can confirm this. I just fought a random NPC trainer's Klefki and it used Prankster Magic Room before I could use a 0 priority attack. I'll probably double-check room move priorities without Prankster tomorrow, but Prankster room moves are definitely not -6 anymore.

 

[Its_A_Random]

Okay, so I was battling a Flare Grunt's Swalot with a Diggersby that outsped it. I used Dig on Swalot, but somehow, the Swalot managed to hit my Diggersby with Toxic, despite being in its invulnerable. So I just want to validate this to see if what happened to me was -not- a glitch:

Does Toxic hit Pokémon in the invulnerable stages of Dig/Fly/Bounce/Dive & any other move with a similar effect?

EDIT: Apparently this was mentioned earlier by Swamp Rocket, so I guess I am merely confirming that possible mechanic change?

 

[thelaytonmobile]

Since there was some debate about it, I went out and tested Flying Press on a wild Honedge.
It didn't affect the Honedge. If anyone needs a pic, I could get one off my phone in a while, though it will be bad quality.
I caught it and it had No Guard, so that didn't make the move hit either.

Anyway, Flying Press will NOT hit any Ghost type, even Ghost/Steel.

 

[Pan.]

Okay, so I was battling a Flare Grunt's Swalot with a Diggersby that outsped it. I used Dig on Swalot, but somehow, the Swalot managed to hit my Diggersby with Toxic, despite being in its invulnerable. So I just want to validate this to see if what happened to me was -not- a glitch:

Does Toxic hit Pokémon in the invulnerable stages of Dig/Fly/Bounce/Dive & any other move with a similar effect?

EDIT: Apparently this was mentioned earlier by Swamp Rocket, so I guess I am merely confirming that possible mechanic change?

I posted earlier, that Perish Song didn't affect my Pidgeot when it was up in the air with Fly and just affected the opponents pokemon.

Was this in gen 5?

 

[Level 51]

Spiky Shield has its success rate decreased to one-third on consecutive uses (I assume this means 1, 1/3, 1/9, 1/27 etc.).

Edit: also, switching occurs before Mega Evolution.

 

[sandshrewz]

Okay, so I was battling a Flare Grunt's Swalot with a Diggersby that outsped it. I used Dig on Swalot, but somehow, the Swalot managed to hit my Diggersby with Toxic, despite being in its invulnerable. So I just want to validate this to see if what happened to me was -not- a glitch:

Does Toxic hit Pokémon in the invulnerable stages of Dig/Fly/Bounce/Dive & any other move with a similar effect?

EDIT: Apparently this was mentioned earlier by Swamp Rocket, so I guess I am merely confirming that possible mechanic change?

Soooo does Toxic hit if you're using Dig with a Substitute? I wonder which takes precedence, probably Substitute does but something to test I guess lol :O! Interesting!

Edit: so has Flying Press + Color Change been tested?

Also Reflect Type on a Pokemon with two types that is Trick-or-Treated, does it copy only the two types or all three? Assuming that it does indeed get 3 types stacked :O!

And Protean + Flying Press?